Palmeiras_Fan

Today Palmeiras will play Corinthians for the Brazilian League. It is the most traditional classic in the state of São Paulo and one of the biggest rivalries in Brazil (often ranked as one of the greatest classics in world football). It is known in Brazil as the "Derby".

You must have heard of Corinthians (they endlessly brag about having beaten Chelsea at the Club World Cup in 2012). São Paulo is also very well known internationally because they have won this title 3 times: in 1992 (against Barcelona), in 1993 (against AC Milan) and in 2005 (against Liverpool). Up until the 90's and early 2000's, South American clubs were able to seriosuly match European clubs head on, as most of their top players remained in the country and played for the clubs locally. This only started to changed in the 1990's and 2000's. Corinthians was actually the last South American club that managed to win the Club World Cup, back in 2012 (precisely against Chelsea).

The Premier League is the best known league in the world, for sure. It's not different around here in Brazil, althoug obvisouly the most watched league is the local Brazilian league (which is considered the "Premier League of the Americas" due to its insane competitiveness and large amount of big clubs competing against each other). But many people here also follow the Premier League, it is broadcast live on cable TV.

That's what many people do. Santos is still the most internationally known Brazilian club because of Pelé. But that has to do with the player, not with the club itself. As mentioned, it is far from being one of the most popular clubs in Brazil and it is not the most successful either (90% of its most relevant titles come from the 60's and the "Pelé Era").

Most of the clubs in Brazil don't have owners. The law that allowed clubs to become SAFs (Football Anonymous Societies) was only passed in 2021 and, since then, out of the 12 big clubs, only 4 turned into them: - Cruzeiro (bought by Ronaldo and sold this year to another owner from Brazil) - Botafogo (bought by Crystal Palace's owner, the american John Textor) - Vasco da Gama (bought by the American investment company 777 Partners) - Atlético Mineiro (bought by local partners) All the other 8 big clubs remain Civil Society Organisations, without owners. Also, some other important clubs have also become SAF's, like Bahia (bought by the City Group) and Coritiba (bought by a local group). And Bragantino, which was a fairly small club, was bought by Red Bull and, since then, has become a fist-division club and has remained top tier ever since.

A lot of people make a point for Santos because of Pelé (and many also know them because it's where Neymar came from). In the 60's, when they had a stellar squad and were probably the best team in the world, they piled up titles and those feats are talked about until today. But the fact is that, in historical terms, Santos is still very dependent of that era. The reality is that the real size of the club does not match that off-the-curve moment that they had. Santos was ALWAYS smaller that the other 3 paulista clubs (Corinthians, Palmeiras and São Paulo), up until the second half of the 50's. And after the end of the "Pelé Era", they went back to winning a lot less than its 3 rivals from the state. The fact is that, if you remove the "Pelé Era" from Santos, they don't have much left. The other clubs were far more consitent along the decades than Santos, which, like I said, is very dependent on the "Pelé Era". Besides, Santos fanbase is signicantly smaller: FLAMENGO has around 40 million supporters CORINTHIANS has about 31-32 million supporters SÃO PAULO and PALMEIRAS have about 16 millions supporters, each Santos has about 5-6 millions supporters, at most. It has far less potential than the Top 4 most popular clubs in the country. It was never among the most popular clubs.

You're very welcome. That's a highly complex theme in the country, and subject to a lot of heated debate... haha Historically, all 12 are very big and all of them had moments of dominance along the decades. But of course today there are clear differences in size amongst them, as time went by. For example, Flamengo has a fanbase of over 40 million people, whereas Botafogo has about 3 million supporters. So there is a huge difference between them, which is also reflected on the pich and the titles won by each of them (clubs with a bigger fanbase tend to have more financial potential and power than clubs with fewer fans). I believe the 4 undisputed biggest clubs in Brazil are CORINTHIANS, FLAMENGO, PALMEIRAS and SÃO PAULO (not necessarily in this order). Those are the ones that tick more boxes on what makes a club big in South America: history, titles and fanbase. And the smallest of all twelve is definitely Botafogo (many people even try to exclude them from the "G-12" group).

Some basic info about Brazilian football, for those who might be interested. Brazil is the only country in the world that historically has 12 big clubs (the "G-12"), being them: CORINTHIANS (from the state of São Paulo) PALMEIRAS (from the state of São Paulo) SÃO PAULO (from the state of São Paulo) SANTOS (from the state of São Paulo) FLAMENGO from the state of Rio de Janeiro) VASCO DA GAMA (from the state of Rio de Janeiro) FLUMINENSE (from the state of Rio de Janeiro) BOTAFOGO (from the state of Rio de Janeiro) CRUZEIRO (from the state of Minas Gerais) ATLÉTICO MINEIRO (from the state of Minas Gerais) GRÊMIO (from the state of Rio Grande do Sul) INTERNACIONAL (from the state of Rio Grande do Sul) Furthermore, Brazil also has some clubs that are quite important, although they are not included in the group of the other 12 big ones, such as: Bahia, Athletico Paranaense, Coritiba, Sport, Ceará, Fortaleza, Vitória, Goiás and others from different areas of the country. That's the basic setup. Many of the greatest footballers to ever play the game worldwide have come from these clubs.

With all due respect, that is highly arguable. Peaz plays in a far less competitive league than Estêvão, for a a team with far smaller ambitions and prospects than Estêvão's. Estêvão is having to prove himself against much tougher opposition in Brazil and is suceeding in it. The difference between the Brazilian league and the Ecuadorian league is ABYSMAL.

No worries at all. Yes, I taught myself a lot of English because I've always liked the language (music, films and so on...). So I forced myself to learn it. Took some classes when I was younger as well, of course. But still make some mistakes, I'm afraid... Thanks so much for the compliment!

It's not just about that. It's about the clubs they play for and the leagues they are in. Paez plays for a medium-sized club in Ecuador (a second-tier league in South America). Estêvão plays for one of the biggest and most powerful clubs on the continent in the Brazilian league (widely regarded as one of the top leagues in the world). It would simply be IMPOSSIBLE to get the player out for less than that. The bargaining power between both clubs and both leagues are COMPLETELY different. And I can guarantee you that there are plenty of Palmeiras fans quite annoyed that Estêvão was sold way too cheaply. Both sales involve completely different contexts. You can't get a top talent out of Brazil nowadays for a cheap price, as no club in the country would accept the offer (Real Madrid payed the same amount for Endrick, by the way).

Thank you. The kid has just scored another goal and might as well be the man of the match (still 15 minutes to go). Absolutely ahead of the curve.

And ANOTHER goal by Estêvão Willian at the Brasileirão. What a player. Another great performance. Palmeiras and Flamengo fighting for the top spot at this moment. I guess the best 2 teams on the continent will remain the dominant forces again, for another season.

I will confess to you that there is talk in Brazil that Chelsea might not be the best destination for the kid. Many people say that the club doesn't know how to manage or "launch" the young talent that they get. I really don't know if that has any validation or truth, but it is common talk at the moment around here. I do hope that's not the case, because Estêvão is a HUGE talent.

Thanks! 🙂 I have been taught English from a very young age. But I'm Brazilian born in São Paulo and living in São Paulo almost all my life. Crazy Palmeiras fan, by the way (and still pissed with you for the WC final in 2022... LOL). I will KILL Luan if I ever see him.