Who will the next permanent Chelsea manager be?

[paulw66]

2 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

There's also the compensation thing to consider with Nagelsmann, which won't be cheap, they paid a world record for him.

Am sure that can be worked on. They have sacked him, afterall. 

 

[Mark Kelly]

4 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

His stats at Roma and Celta Vigo need some context to be fair.

Anyone know what state either were in over 10 years ago or how they did before or after him?

Roma under Ranieri and Montella who replaced him reached 6th in the league

Enrique took over at the beginning of the season and took them to 7th in the league and was sacked. 

The next guy took them back to the heady heights of 6th 

[Willian Dollar Baby]

14 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

@paulw66

Enriques record at club level, is terrible, aside from a spell at Barca where he had a front 3 of Messi, Suarez and Neymar. Quite frankly, if you can't succeed with that front 3, you have no hope.

I didn't realise it until yesterday quite how poor he had been at Roma at Celta.

Roma, 42 games, 17 wins, 16 losses

Celta vigo, 40 games, 15 wins, 18 losses.

 

I do hope somebody at the club realises that his record at Barca with the level of talent he had at his disposal in a three team league says less about him than this dreadful club record and woeful Spain side .

Mind you they're probably thinking of buying Neymar and hoping it'll be fine.

Don't really know where we turn but please not here. 

I'm also not a fan of the Enrique move. Outside of Barca his record is ordinary and he hasn't managed at club level for 6 years. It's not like he impressed that much in the Spain job either. 

I still expect Nagelsmann to be appointed, most likely before the Wolves game.  The timing of the Potter sacking and the existing relationship JN has with a few of our Directors seems to point in that direction. I won't claim to have watched much of the Bundesliga but have certainly known how highly he's been rated for a long time. There aren't many obvious alternatives so let's go for it, whoever we go for is unlikely to be here in 18 months anyway. 

My preference would be:

1. Nagelsmann

2. Poch

3. Enrique 

Love Jose but sadly he's unable to motivate modern players to fight for him like he could 10 years ago. 

[Willian Dollar Baby]

13 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Am sure that can be worked on. They have sacked him, afterall. 

 

Agreed, I doubt a deal would be difficult. 

Ultimately it's in Bayern's best interest to not pay 2 managers salaries at once.

Pretty sure something similar happened with Sarri when they had already appointed Ancelotti but still had him on the payroll. 

With Bayern also being keen to take Anthony Barry I'm sure there's a sensible deal that suits all parties. 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Willian Dollar Baby

[east lower]

13 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Am sure that can be worked on. They have sacked him, afterall. 

 

And they are also wanting Anthony Barry, there's leverage in that.

[martin1905]

15 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Roma under Ranieri and Montella who replaced him reached 6th in the league

Enrique took over at the beginning of the season and took them to 7th in the league and was sacked. 

The next guy took them back to the heady heights of 6th 

Not exactly disastrous then, considering it was his first ever job.

I find the bashing of his success as Barcelona odd though, the same could have been said about Pep and look what happened there.

I don't think the club will worry too much about his record at a couple of clubs 10 years ago, especially as in comparison to others at the time there was nothing wrong with it.

Don't get me wrong, Nagelsmann is absolutely my first choice but would not be against Enrique, I'd certainly have him above Pochettino.

Edited April 5, 2023 by martin1905

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, martin1905 said:

Not exactly disastrous then, considering it was his first ever job.

I find the bashing of his success as Barcelona odd though, the same could have been said about Pep and look what happened there.

I don't think the club will worry too much about his record at a couple of clubs 10 years ago, especially as in comparison to others at the time there was nothing wrong with it.

Don't get me wrong, Nagelsmann is absolutely as my first choice but would not be against Enrique, I'd certainly have him above Pochettino.

Yes , I suppose he achieved pretty much what anyone else would have to be honest , looks like Roma were inherently a top six side regardless of who was the coach, 

[paulw66]

9 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

 

I find the bashing of his success as Barcelona odd though, the same could have been said about Pep and look what happened there.

 

It's not bashing, but with that front 3, it's hard not to succeed. 

I would say the same with Pep. He's gone from easy job, to easy job, and is very good at winning when he has the best set of players. 

[Willian Dollar Baby]

I'm aware stats can be cherry picked to favour an argument however some interesting ones when speaking about managerial experience:

Luis Enrique 

434 total games managed of which 124 are with Barca B and 47 with Spain. 

In terms of top flight club football, he has managed 263 games which are all prior to May 2017. 

33 of those games were in the Champions League. 

Julian Nagelsmannnn

315 top flight club football games which are all since February 2016. 

40 of those games were in the Champions League. 

Who has the more relevant managerial  experience?

[JaneB]

2 hours ago, Ham said:

I do find the Nightshift of MT, ROTG, Celery and Kev most entertaining with my breakfast 😂

 

Until the personal insults start flying (you know who you are).  I feel like a primary school teacher on here sometimes.

(Don't forget @chara too)

[Thiago97]

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

His stats at Roma and Celta Vigo need some context to be fair.

Anyone know what state either were in over 10 years ago or how they did before or after him?

I think there is some context to his career so far, I am sure there is more than some of the basics in my post below.

Roma was very early in his career. People can say what they like about the level of Italian football, but the one thing I would say it is probably the most demanding tactical leagues in football. It may lack the quality of the 80s , 90s etc, but the coaches are very knowledgeable and the tactical discipline is of a greater level than many other leagues. Maybe it was too soon, but on the whole he didnt do a bad job. Roma are much like Spurs I would say and they have generally been the same since he left. 

He also clashed with Totti in his time there. The most powerful and influential footballer at club level in Italy during that period, there was only really ever going to be one winner there.

Celta - I don't have much knowledge of the Spanish league. It looks like he achieved par for the course, or maybe slightly better. Celta are perennial mid-lower level team.

Now if you look at Spain in more detail. They have had an identity and way of playing for majority of the noughties. It has been very successful for them. He was never going to come in and rip all that up. That would be stupid really.I read at the time of his appointment that he was brought in because the Spanish FA felt the set up had become ill disciplined and complacent. It's easy to say this was a failure, but its such fine margins in knock out football in these tournaments, and its the fine margins not going their way, which knocked them out.

I think his style of management is probably more suited to club football. The day to day coaching with his players and influencing them to buy into his methods. Rather than meeting up once a month for a lighter touch get away from the day to day demands of league football, which is more what we see with Southgate by comparison.

His record at Barca is quite similar to Pep's. It's easy to say anyone can do this, but Barca have appointed lower profile managers since Enrique and with limited success. 

I come back to reputation and presence. If a players playing career is spent playing the majority of it for Barcelona and Real Madrid, it means they are either a special talent (Enrique probably not at that level) or you have incredible professionalism and set very high standards , coupled with very good ability as a footballer. These are exactly the standards the club needs right now. Players need to be physically and mentally challenged at the levels of an elite club. We have only had this in 1 out of our last 4 managers, which was also our most successful period across our last 4 managers.

These are the reasons why I believe Enrique is a good fit for what Chelsea need right now. 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Thiago97

[JaneB]

9 hours ago, Original 21 said:

Chelsea 'could turn to Frank Lampard for the remainder of the season on an interim basis', 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11939861/Chelsea-sensationally-turn-Frank-Lampard-remainder-season.html

Lazy journalism.  Of course they won't.

I'm just glad that Frank is back watching us.  Warms my heart.

[Max Fowler]

Apparently Boehly and Eghbhali prefer Enrique, but I think they could be convinced by our sporting directors to go for Nagelsmann. They don't want to get another big decision wrong and Stewart and Vivell will push for him.

[xceleryx]

21 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

I think there is some context to his career so far, I am sure there is more than some of the basics in my post below.

Roma was very early in his career. People can say what they like about the level of Italian football, but the one thing I would say it is probably the most demanding tactical leagues in football. It may lack the quality of the 80s , 90s etc, but the coaches are very knowledgeable and the tactical discipline is of a greater level than many other leagues. Maybe it was too soon, but on the whole he didnt do a bad job. Roma are much like Spurs I would say and they have generally been the same since he left. 

He also clashed with Totti in his time there. The most powerful and influential footballer at club level in Italy during that period, there was only really ever going to be one winner there.

He didn't do a good job at Roma either.

• 7th in the League as already mentioned with a +6 GD, finished 6th the season prior with a +7 GD.
• Knocked out at the quarter-finals of the Coppa Italia (lost 3-0 to Juve), made the semi-final the season prior.
• Knocked out at the play-off round of the Europa League by the mighty Slovan Bratislava (2-1 on age), made the Champions League R16 the season prior.
• Didn't qualify for any European competition. 

The season after he left they finished 6th in Serie A with a +15 GD, and were runners-up in the Coppa Italia. 

His reputation virtually hangs on his Barcelona spell, which wasn't exactly difficult to get a tune out of at the time. With his results for Spain at International level also being a mixed bag. 

[Ham]

3 hours ago, RDCW said:

I guess I'm in a minority of one then! I thought we played pretty well and could easily have won 3 or 4 - 0. I also thought we looked much more cohesive than we had under Potter and I liked the fact that Felix risked failure by being progressive. The spectre at the feast was Havertz, who had a dreadful game. Kova was poor in attack and will need to be replaced if we are to challenge at the top.

The upshot is that Liverpool should be a lot more fearful of the future than we. Our defence is sorted (not fully integrated and co-ordinated yet, but with ample talent), we need a midfielder like Rice and we definitely need a striker (or 2). With a decent new manager we will be a very formidable team.

I also thought we generally played well v Villa and Liverpool. Did enough to comfortably pick up 6 points but my God, our finishing is truly appalling.

45 minutes ago, JaneB said:

Until the personal insults start flying (you know who you are).  I feel like a primary school teacher on here sometimes.

(Don't forget @chara too)

I consider @chara to be a day worker, despite the time difference.  He's normally around until I clock off. 

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, Ham said:

I also thought we generally played well v Villa and Liverpool. Did enough to comfortably pick up 6 points but my God, our finishing is truly appalling.

XG FC

[Ham]

Interesting poll figures from decent sized samples;

 

 

[Mark Kelly]

1 minute ago, Ham said:

Interesting poll figures from decent sized samples;

 

 

I don't think Twitter is really a barometer of sanity to be honest. 

[martin1905]

43 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

I think there is some context to his career so far, I am sure there is more than some of the basics in my post below.

Roma was very early in his career. People can say what they like about the level of Italian football, but the one thing I would say it is probably the most demanding tactical leagues in football. It may lack the quality of the 80s , 90s etc, but the coaches are very knowledgeable and the tactical discipline is of a greater level than many other leagues. Maybe it was too soon, but on the whole he didnt do a bad job. Roma are much like Spurs I would say and they have generally been the same since he left. 

He also clashed with Totti in his time there. The most powerful and influential footballer at club level in Italy during that period, there was only really ever going to be one winner there.

Celta - I don't have much knowledge of the Spanish league. It looks like he achieved par for the course, or maybe slightly better. Celta are perennial mid-lower level team.

Now if you look at Spain in more detail. They have had an identity and way of playing for majority of the noughties. It has been very successful for them. He was never going to come in and rip all that up. That would be stupid really.I read at the time of his appointment that he was brought in because the Spanish FA felt the set up had become ill disciplined and complacent. It's easy to say this was a failure, but its such fine margins in knock out football in these tournaments, and its the fine margins not going their way, which knocked them out.

I think his style of management is probably more suited to club football. The day to day coaching with his players and influencing them to buy into his methods. Rather than meeting up once a month for a lighter touch get away from the day to day demands of league football, which is more what we see with Southgate by comparison.

His record at Barca is quite similar to Pep's. It's easy to say anyone can do this, but Barca have appointed lower profile managers since Enrique and with limited success. 

I come back to reputation and presence. If a players playing career is spent playing the majority of it for Barcelona and Real Madrid, it means they are either a special talent (Enrique probably not at that level) or you have incredible professionalism and set very high standards , coupled with very good ability as a footballer. These are exactly the standards the club needs right now. Players need to be physically and mentally challenged at the levels of an elite club. We have only had this in 1 out of our last 4 managers, which was also our most successful period across our last 4 managers.

These are the reasons why I believe Enrique is a good fit for what Chelsea need right now. 

Very well said and I agree with everything you say, was trying to write something similar earlier but work got in the way.

I've been very clear on my views of Nagelsmann and to be fair I was calling for Enrique months ago on the old forum, I'd be very happy with either in all honesty although I do have this feeling that Enrique could very well be the right man at the right time. 

[Bob Singleton]

I'd be happy with any from Naglesmann, Enrique or Pochettino.  Enrique was my preferred choice before Naglesmann became available, but now I'm not sure I'm fussed either way. Both have their plusses and minuses, and we really don't know how either would do until they're actually in the job. I can only imagine that none of those three would be as disastrous as Potter. I can even imagine us winning trophies again... something II never thought we'd be capable of doing under Potter.

[Mark Kelly]

Here's some more on Enrique: From Pete Jensen of the Daily Mail

Chelsea have one thing going for them, and one thing set against them, as they try to persuade Luis Enrique to become their new manager: He loves English football and wants to coach in England. But he will need to be convinced they are as serious and committed as he is.

The 52-year-old regrets never playing in England and wants his next job to be in the Premier League. But he’s not someone you can say: ‘We’ll get back to you, we’ve got other candidates to see’. Either you want him or you don’t, and if you do he’ll match your commitment and then some.

The Iron Man fanatic, just back from a series of marathons in South Africa, also has an iron will. He picks his confidants carefully and once you’ve broken his trust it’s almost impossible to win it again.

It’s easy to have picked up the wrong idea about him from those live streaming sessions during the last World Cup.

‘I don’t mind players having sex the night before matches but I draw the line at orgies,’ he famously said during one Q&A free-for-all in which he spoke about everything from Gavi’s intensity to whether a Spanish Omelette should have onions in it.

That online streaming experiment - he vowed before the tournament to do it everyday until Spain were out - was seen as frivolous by some, and it was the biggest stick to hand when, once Spain had gone out to Morocco, his critics turned on him.

But frivolous is one of the last words people who know him would use to describe Luis Enrique. He saw the streaming as a good way of taking the pressure off of his players. What he said every day became the story back in Spain and so they were largely left alone.

He also gave all the money raised from subscriptions to the stream and donations from its 800,000 followers to a children’s hospice project in Barcelona.

He lost his own daughter Xana to bone cancer in 2019. She was just nine-years-old. He is a patron of the Enriqueta Villavecchia Foundation and their project to build somewhere where seriously ill children and their families could be cared for benefited hugely from those daft chats about onions and orgies.

That failed campaign in Qatar is his last job in football to date. Spain had the third youngest squad in the tournament with 20 players at their first World Cup but when they thrashed Costa Rica in the first game it looked as if they could go all the way.

The greatest criticism of him once the team had gone out to Morocco was that his squad had been too unbalanced lacking in a plan B. It was certainly true that he had opted not to take a target man centre-forward who might have been handy late on as Spain passed their way around Morocco but never managed to penetrate

When big former Stoke and Newcastle striker Joselu was subsequently picked by Luis Enrique’s replacement Luis de la Fuente in his first game in charge, and then scored twice from the bench, it seemed to underline the point.

But Spain were then beaten by Scotland at Hampden and it was a reminder that if anything Luis Enrique had overachieved in taking them to a Euros semi-final and a Nations League final.

That first squad picked post-Luis Enrique also had no Ferran Torres in it. The boyfriend of Luis Enrique’s daughter Sira was a fixture before. He joked during one of the streams when asked which player he felt most represented by on the pitch: ‘I have to say Torres because if not my daughter will kill me.’

He was accused of favouritism, as he had been when he picked Gavi for his debut when the midfielder was only 60 days past his 17th birthday and was still living in Barça’s youth academy. Gavi is represented by Ivan de la Peña, a friend of Luis Enrique, and the man who has accompanied him to London to speak to Chelsea.

No one thinks Gavi shouldn’t be in the Spain team now. He’ll be on a free-transfer at the end of the season if Barcelona don’t sort out their finances and no doubt Luis Enrique would be more than happy to take him to England where his rambunctious style would make him instant hit.

The point about Gavi and Torres is that Luis Enrique doesn’t care. He picks who he wants and to hell with the whispers about why he might have done it.

Chelsea would have to be prepared for that sort of leadership. If they feel it’s what they need then he could be sat in the dugout at the Santiago Bernabeu in time for the Champions League quarter-final first leg against another of his former clubs Real Madrid.

This is not the first time they have wanted him. Post Antonio Conte he was also first choice but he was on a year’s sabbatical after winning nine trophies in three seasons at Barcelona and was reluctant to bring it to a premature end.

He is ready now. What remains to be seen is if Todd Boehly is ready for him.

 

[Ham]

7 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I don't think Twitter is really a barometer of sanity to be honest. 

Still... Interesting how similar the percentages. Granted it might be the same followers voting. 

[Ham]

16 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

XG FC

Aka Charity FC

[Thiago97]

11 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

He didn't do a good job at Roma either.

• 7th in the League as already mentioned with a +6 GD, finished 6th the season prior with a +7 GD.
• Knocked out at the quarter-finals of the Coppa Italia (lost 3-0 to Juve), made the semi-final the season prior.
• Knocked out at the play-off round of the Europa League by the mighty Slovan Bratislava (2-1 on age), made the Champions League R16 the season prior.
• Didn't qualify for any European competition. 

The season after he left they finished 6th in Serie A with a +15 GD, and were runners-up in the Coppa Italia. 

His reputation virtually hangs on his Barcelona spell, which wasn't exactly difficult to get a tune out of at the time. With his results for Spain at International level also being a mixed bag. 

As i have said before, holes can be picked for sure. They can with virtually all managers though. Things started badly with that Roma team, he came in and shook the place up early by taking Totti on. That alone shows he has bollox to walk into that club and take on their club legend. 

He also clashed with Messi too, it was widely reported that they had an indifferent relationship during the early days at Barca.

You can actually draw a number of comparisons to his style with Mourinho. The major difference being he has not quite had the same level of success Mourinho had, but has he worked at clubs where that success is realistic ? Maybe he could have done better at Roma, but maybe that job just came too early in his career. He was never really going to get them genuinely competing in a Juve dominated, quite poor era in Serie A with little money around during that time.

I have since heard Messi and Totti praise Enrique as a coach. Which is quite interesting really, considering both players had spells under him where they were not seeing eye to eye. I have also heard Thiago openly talk about what a great coach he believes Enrique is.

I think it will be an interesting appointment and probably quite combustible at times. These players have had a lighter touch style of management in two out of the last three, its been pretty bad to average during those periods.

[Mark Kelly]

Have to say I'm liking the fact that Enrique has a touch of the "my way or the highway" approach to him , I think it would be good for the players to have an authoritarian figure leading them.