Mauricio Pochettino leaves Chelsea by mutual consent

[Floyd25]

2 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

I've always preferred managers who's teams played with fair and were attack minded  over those who are grinders and pragmatic. Football has never been just about winning to me.

Agree to a certain extent, but I can’t say that I ever clamoured for Wenger’s mostly unsuccessful football when we were winning trophies under Mourinho, so I prefer winning football personally. If you can do both then great and we have done before under Carlo and even in Mourinho’s second stint when we played some great football at times, but the media wouldn’t have it. 

Edited May 11 by Floyd25

[xceleryx]

2 hours ago, east lower said:

I’m pretty bored of driving 200 miles each way and seeing us getting battered by 3, 4 or more under the current bloke. How poor a coach he is to get slaughtered by 4 at the current Man Utd. Get outplayed by Sheffield Utd, played off the park by Brentford at home, couldn’t beat or even score against the most out of form club in Europe at the time.

I prefer winning football, preferably easy on the eye - But there’s no choice to make between winning football and pretty losing football. Results business it is and for the match-going fans that I speak to, there’s no choice to make.

The art of defending has fascinated me as much as the stuff that goes on elsewhere in the pitch. It’s why I loved Jose Mk1 - tough, resilient and brilliant defensively but absolutely devastatingly brilliant going forward. Robben and Duff in tandem.

There's been a few cricket scores this season, sure, and no doubt some poor performances against sides we should've been doing better against but there's a element of context that needs to be retained here. A newly constructed team littered with youth and inexperience, while under the guise of a new manager, was always going to have short term teething problems. Which is exactly what we've seen. Throw in the league high injuries and games missed by those who have been out, and the job at hand as been made that little bit tougher. 

We've obviously made progress since the first half of the season, with the last few games being a further step forward again. From August 12th to December 31st we were 10th. 8 wins, 4 draws, 8 losses with 34 goals for and 31 against. 

From January 1st to now our record has has sitting 5th - 7 wins, 5 draws and 3 losses - with 36 goals for and 28 against. As time continues to pass, players returning from injury, and maybe a few additions in the right areas in the summer, we'll continue to trend upwards over the next 6-12 months. 

I'd take the unpredictability of our performances right now over the absolute dour football coaches like Mourinho or Allegri play in this current day, but that's me. In this day and age the product you put on the pitch is just as important from a business standpoint as the results are. It plays a big part in attracting fans and growing the club from a marketability perspective. If you can combine that with winning on top then you've struct gold. 

[kev61]

3 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

 

 but we were not going anywhere fast with him in the league and I have to be honest I was pretty bored a lot of the time watching his very safe, pragmatic football.  I thought our midfield play was slow, sterlie and tedious and our attacking play just as poor a lot of the time.

 

 

I suppose you feel confident about saying this because he failed at Munich.

Don't forget Carlo failed at Everton look what he's doing  now at Madrid.

I know I will open myself up to criticism, but under Tuchel I thought we played  some of the best football I have ever seen as a long term Chelsea fan.

Maybe Tuchel is just a cup manager and doesn't have it in him tor a league campaign,but we did (and still have) players that were whingers and thought they were better than they actually were during his tenure.

[boratsbrother]

5 hours ago, Floyd25 said:

Agree to a certain extent, but I can’t say that I ever clamoured for Wenger’s mostly unsuccessful football when we were winning trophies under Mourinho, so I prefer winning football personally. If you can do both then great and we have done before under Carlo and even in Mourinho’s second stint when we played some great football at times, but the media wouldn’t have it. 

As we know, these days the media is made up of a mixture of the journos, ex managers and players. They will generally praise any team who plays attacking, entertaining football.

There is no bias against Chelsea or our managers. The Chelsea team of Vialli, Zola and co was popular with the media and also a lot of neutral fans. The current team is also being enjoyed by the media and an increasing number of nuetrals. Wengers Arsenal were popular with the media and nuetrals because they played great football at their peak 

Going way back George Graham's Arsenal were certainly not liked by the media or nuetral fans.  Going further bsck. Utd's team of Best, Law and Charlton was popular. Some Spurs teams. Liverpool's team with John Barnes.  The truly wonderful  Brazilian team of 82 is much more loved and  remembered than the winners of 82.  So too the brilliant Dutch team of the 70's.  Play entertaining football and you'll be liked by the media and most footbsll fans. Play shit on a stick football and you'll be liked by only those who support that particular team.   I certainly wouldn't much good to say about Jose and TT's  time at Chelsea if there wasn't the trophies to compensate for putting up with the  grinding, sterlie dross they served up most weeks.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ROTG]

13 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

But you and everyone knows the players were bought to develop into a quality team over a few years. There is every sign they are on track to do just that. 

I wouldn't swap our squad for any outside the top three!  I'll go further and say that in two years time we'll have the strongest squad depth in the league. We'll probably need a couple more Palmer level signings to be the best first 11 team.

It the dream of every player to play in the CL, therefore a player like Cole Palmer will not hang around “depending on season 2 performances” should the club fail to qualify for the CL next season. 

So in 25/26 season you think the club will have the strongest sqaud in the league? I would suspect 50% of the current regular first team will have left the club by then and all the team around the club will strengthen.

Also where in your calculations are the Europe factor?. The team has struggled in a 38 game window, hevans forbid should they need to play midweek european matches 

[east lower]

5 hours ago, xceleryx said:

I'd take the unpredictability of our performances right now over the absolute dour football coaches like Mourinho or Allegri play in this current day, but that's me. In this day and age the product you put on the pitch is just as important from a business standpoint as the results are. It plays a big part in attracting fans and growing the club from a marketability perspective. If you can combine that with winning on top then you've struct gold. 

Why wasn’t Mr Newly Belligerent quite so, earlier this season? 

It’s fairly obvious that he’s taken his opportunity while we’re on a better run to be brave. I’d give him Cucurella as a smart tactical move, but it’s hardly innovative as Pep has been doing similar for two seasons or more. 

It’s quite interesting that the ‘beautiful football’ narrative seems to come from a demographic different from the people I speak to regularly, who want to win firstly and fore-mostly. The fancy stuff is a ‘wouldn’t it be wonderful’ add-on.

As for drawing in new fans, merchandise etc. There’s young people in quite some numbers in the South-East of England/London wearing PSG branded gear. I ask why and the reply is it’s a fashion thing and nowt to do with football allegiances. So popularity these days isn’t just reserved to pretty football. 
 

All of a sudden over the last 6 or so years, there’s multiple kids decked out in Man City gear, when you’d never see one of their kits prior to that. Winning sells, winning matters most - it’s a results business. How you  win is some way down the line.  “Champions again”, they sing 🎶 ad-nauseam. No mention of what style they play.
 

Quite frankly, some are starting to sound like Wengerite’s - Preaching what wonderful football they were witnessing and how they’d prefer to watch them than watching Chelsea win, whilst winning nothing in his middle and latter years. 

[boratsbrother]

5 hours ago, kev61 said:

I suppose you feel confident about saying this because he failed at Munich.

Don't forget Carlo failed at Everton look what he's doing  now at Madrid.

I know I will open myself up to criticism, but under Tuchel I thought we played  some of the best football I have ever seen as a long term Chelsea fan.

Maybe Tuchel is just a cup manager and doesn't have it in him tor a league campaign,but we did (and still have) players that were whingers and thought they were better than they actually were during his tenure.

No, even when we were top of the league under TT, i was saying we were not going to win the league playing that kind of football. Far too often we were being nailed out by James and  Chilwell playing out of their skin and other defenders saving our arse in games. The opposition were missing shit loads of chances against us. The midfield had zero creativity and our only attacking ploys was spamming crosses into the box and deadball situations.  The results were completely unsustainable and so it proved to be. 

The away game at Leicester when we won 3-0 was the only game I thought we looked real quality.

[east lower]

3 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

No, even when we were top of the league under TT, i was saying we were not going to win the league playing that kind of football. Far too often we were being nailed out by James and  Chilwell playing out of their skin and other defenders saving our arse in games. The opposition were missing shit loads of chances against us. The midfield had zero creativity and our only attacking ploys was spamming crosses into the box and deadball situations.  The results were completely unsustainable and so it proved to be. 

The away game at Leicester when we won 3-0 was the only game I thought we looked real quality.

Clearly it doesn’t suit what I believe is a particularly myopic viewpoint to recall the destruction of Juventus twice and numerous other games that season that had us top of the league until Chilwell and James were injured near Xmas and out for most of the remainder of that season. 

Wonderful football and winning as well, perfect. Doesn’t suit your agenda to recall it, though.

[kev61]

2 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

No, even when we were top of the league under TT, i was saying we were not going to win the league playing that kind of football. Far too often we were being nailed out by James and  Chilwell playing out of their skin and other defenders saving our arse in games. The opposition were missing shit loads of chances against us. The midfield had zero creativity and our only attacking ploys was spamming crosses into the box and deadball situations.  The results were completely unsustainable and so it proved to be. 

The away game at Leicester when we won 3-0 was the only game I thought we looked real quality.

We played every team off the park in the champions league...including the mighty Madrid.

I think the players let him down in the end imo 

[martin1905]

14 hours ago, east lower said:

 

I think he knows exactly what he’s doing and saying. He’s on a high and he’s daring them to back him, couldn’t win in a raffle and as he’s been forced to play 11 or 12 in the team by injuries and has hit on a bit of a formula that works - he playing his cards.

Call his bluff, if we’ve got an adequate replacement.

Such a different demeanour from his usual self. All season long he's been almost begging for time and patience,  going on about the age of the squad and lack of experience, constantly saying that he hopes the board are happy with him but it's out of his hands or words to that effect. 

Three good games and all of a sudden he's giving it the biggun, saying its more about whether he is happy and willing to stay than if the board are happy with him. He came across as very arrogant, egotistical and narcissistic, the complete opposite of what he's been like all season.

 

 

 

[east lower]

1 minute ago, martin1905 said:

Such a different demeanour from his usual self. All season long he's been almost begging for time and patience,  going on about the age of the squad and lack of experience, constantly saying that he hopes the board are happy with him but it's out of his hands or words to that effect. 

Three good games and all of a sudden he's giving it the biggun, saying its more about whether he is happy and willing to stay than if the board are happy with him. He came across as very arrogant, egotistical and narcissistic, the complete opposite of what he's been like all season.

 

 

 

And those , are my points also. He’s been turning out dross all season and I’m convinced that this recent upturn has more to do with him being unable to make too many choices because of lack of available choices than it has to do with his coaching abilities.

[martin1905]

Never really gone on too much about this as it comes across as a bit nobby because I'm lucky enough to be a regular but there is a big difference between match going fans and those that don't.

Those that spend thousands and thousands of pounds travelling across Europe year after year don't really care how pretty the football is, it makes literally no difference to the experience. It's no more enjoyable, its all about being there. And winning.

Sitting at home on the sofa, I'm sure the experience is much better and more enjoyable if its pretty to watch and I think that's why there is, and always has been, a big difference in views from those that regularly attend matches and those that don't.

 

[boratsbrother]

17 minutes ago, east lower said:

Clearly it doesn’t suit what I believe is a particularly myopic viewpoint to recall the destruction of Juventus twice and numerous other games that season that had us top of the league until Chilwell and James were injured near Xmas and out for most of the remainder of that season. 

Wonderful football and winning as well, perfect. Doesn’t suit your agenda to recall it, though.

We just have very different opinions about what is good football. I  also must repeat that I am talking about TT winning the Premier League not cups and that I fully stand  by my opinion (one which was very widely agreed with outside of the hsrdcore Cheksea fans) that we relied heavily on luck in too many games and our defenders winning a freakishly number of games which was never going go last. Neither James or Chilwell have come close to that level of form they showed over that first few months of that season. 

Just look at the teams who win or contend for the title these days. They all play very attacking football home and away against all opposition. Of course there'll be games when they are off their game, but the attacking game is one that they are coached to play week in week out. Regardless of whether or not Poch is here next season, his attacking style of football is the way forward if we ever want to win the title again.  Relying on luck, spamming crosses into the box and defenders to win your games is not the way forward. That is humble opinion, but nothing more than that.

 

 

 

 

 

[martin1905]

4 minutes ago, east lower said:

And those , are my points also. He’s been turning out dross all season and I’m convinced that this recent upturn has more to do with him being unable to make too many choices because of lack of available choices than it has to do with his coaching abilities.

Absolutely no doubt about it. The injuries have done him a massive favour.

He's stumbled across a way of playing because he had no choice. There's literally been 10 outfield players available.

I'd give him some credit if, at any other point this season, we had played with the current 11 in the manner we are currently playing. Not once did it happen before Enzo got injured. 

Not once.

 

[east lower]

4 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

We just have very different opinions about what is good football. I  also must repeat that I am talking about TT winning the Premier League not cups and that I fully stand  by my opinion (one which was very widely agreed with outside of the hsrdcore Cheksea fans) that we relied heavily on luck in too many games and our defenders winning a freakishly number of games which was never going go last. Neither James or Chilwell have come close to that level of form they showed over that first few months of that season. 

Just look at the teams who win or contend for the title these days. They all play very attacking football home and away against all opposition. Of course there'll be games when they are off their game, but the attacking game is one that they are coached to play week in week out. Regardless of whether or not Poch is here next season, his attacking style of football is the way forward if we ever want to win the title again.  Relying on luck, spamming crosses into the box and defenders to win your games is not the way forward. That is humble opinion, but nothing more than that.

 

 

 

 

 

You're very much on your own with your views on Tuchel with relation to the people I discuss football and Chelsea with. Apart from Man City, the gooners and the red s**te from Merseyside, any club in the league would take him - and after next season maybe the latter will too.

Best football I've seen since Ancelotti, was under Tuchel. Best winning machine's I've seen were Jose Mk2 and Conte and they won PL's. Neither were attricional. 

[boratsbrother]

15 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Such a different demeanour from his usual self. All season long he's been almost begging for time and patience,  going on about the age of the squad and lack of experience, constantly saying that he hopes the board are happy with him but it's out of his hands or words to that effect. 

Three good games and all of a sudden he's giving it the biggun, saying its more about whether he is happy and willing to stay than if the board are happy with him. He came across as very arrogant, egotistical and narcissistic, the complete opposite of what he's been like all season.

 

 

 

He did not say it was "more about him being happy" He very  clearly said it was a case of if the owners are happy, if the sporting director is happy OR if he is happy, to which he added that he is not saying that he isn't happy. 

 

I'm with Gabriel Marcotti on whether Poch stays or not.  It should have nothing to do with the final three games and European qualification. He's either doing a good job or he isn't. He can be viewed to be doing a good job but not qualify for Europe but also not doing a good job and qualify for Europe. It's ridiculous to judge on the final three games 

 

 

[east lower]

17 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Never really gone on too much about this as it comes across as a bit nobby because I'm lucky enough to be a regular but there is a big difference between match going fans and those that don't.

Those that spend thousands and thousands of pounds travelling across Europe year after year don't really care how pretty the football is, it makes literally no difference to the experience. It's no more enjoyable, its all about being there. And winning.

Sitting at home on the sofa, I'm sure the experience is much better and more enjoyable if its pretty to watch and I think that's why there is, and always has been, a big difference in views from those that regularly attend matches and those that don't.

 

Yep, see my earlier post that refers to demographic. 

[east lower]

10 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

He did not say it was "more about him being happy" He very  clearly said it was a case of if the owners are happy, if the sporting director is happy OR if he is happy, to which he added that he is not saying that he isn't happy. 

 

I'm with Gabriel Marcotti on whether Poch stays or not.  It should have nothing to do with the final three games and European qualification. He's either doing a good job or he isn't. He can be viewed to be doing a good job but not qualify for Europe but also not doing a good job and qualify for Europe. It's ridiculous to judge on the final three games 

 

 

We agree,  should have gone months ago.

He's served up the biggest and consistent load of dross, since AVB. 

Edited May 11 by east lower

[martin1905]

12 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

He did not say it was "more about him being happy" He very  clearly said it was a case of if the owners are happy, if the sporting director is happy OR if he is happy, to which he added that he is not saying that he isn't happy. 

I was just paraphrasing but for what it's worth, this is the main bit I was referring to......

 "If we are happy then it's perfect, but it's not only if the owners are happy... because you need to ask us also, because maybe we are not happy and we need to split.

It would not be the first time a coaching staff decided to not keep going. Tomorrow I could say I am going to leave. It's two parts if they make a decision and it's not only if Chelsea are not happy, the owner is not happy, the sporting director is not happy.

Maybe we are not happy because we arrived here with a job to do, but in the end it's not what we expect. I am not saying I am not happy. If we split it's not a problem, it will not be the end of the world."

12 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

I'm with Gabriel Marcotti on whether Poch stays or not.  It should have nothing to do with the final three games and European qualification. He's either doing a good job or he isn't. He can be viewed to be doing a good job but not qualify for Europe but also not doing a good job and qualify for Europe. It's ridiculous to judge on the final three games 

100%.

I have been saying for months that he shouldn't be here next season and nothing I've seen has changed my mind.

[kev61]

The problem we have is Poch getting it right at the eleventh hour or is it pure luck .

I think it's luck.We have players that will come good regardless who the manager is.

[east lower]

4 minutes ago, kev61 said:

The problem we have is Poch getting it right at the eleventh hour or is it pure luck .

I think it's luck.We have players that will come good regardless who the manager is.

There's the old adage "if you can't be good, bd lucky". And being lucky has made this fella a multi-millionaire.

Traded off his playing career to land the one job he did win anything at. 

BUT, generally you can't be just lucky and win the PL. You might win a cup, but he bottle's it when his chances come.

[east lower]

18 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

I was just paraphrasing but for what it's worth, this is the main bit I was referring to......

 "If we are happy then it's perfect, but it's not only if the owners are happy... because you need to ask us also, because maybe we are not happy and we need to split.

It would not be the first time a coaching staff decided to not keep going. Tomorrow I could say I am going to leave. It's two parts if they make a decision and it's not only if Chelsea are not happy, the owner is not happy, the sporting director is not happy.

Maybe we are not happy because we arrived here with a job to do, but in the end it's not what we expect. I am not saying I am not happy. If we split it's not a problem, it will not be the end of the world."

 

100%.

I have been saying for months that he shouldn't be here next season and nothing I've seen has changed my mind.

Could be, he's got another job lined up now??

[martin1905]

6 minutes ago, east lower said:

Could be, he's got another job lined up now??

Is what I alluded to in my original post yesterday.

It makes a lot of sense, especially with the sudden, and drastic change in his demeanour. 

I don't doubt he would have had contact with other clubs about potentially moving on in the summer. Lots of jobs up for grabs, very few managers available. 

 

[Bison]

30 minutes ago, kev61 said:

The problem we have is Poch getting it right at the eleventh hour or is it pure luck .

I think it's luck.We have players that will come good regardless who the manager is.

West Ham turned up in flip flops. 

Forest may enter the game today knowing they're virtually safe from relegation. 

Judging him based on these results and ignoring nasty performances like Old Trafford away, Anfield away, Sheffield Utd away etc. and all the bizarre choices he's made, the failure to implement any tactical changes throughout the season would be a joke. 

[Floyd25]

1 hour ago, boratsbrother said:

As we know, these days the media is made up of a mixture of the journos, ex managers and players. They will generally praise any team who plays attacking, entertaining football.

There is no bias against Chelsea or our managers. The Chelsea team of Vialli, Zola and co was popular with the media and also a lot of neutral fans. The current team is also being enjoyed by the media and an increasing number of nuetrals. Wengers Arsenal were popular with the media and nuetrals because they played great football at their peak 

Going way back George Graham's Arsenal were certainly not liked by the media or nuetral fans.  Going further bsck. Utd's team of Best, Law and Charlton was popular. Some Spurs teams. Liverpool's team with John Barnes.  The truly wonderful  Brazilian team of 82 is much more loved and  remembered than the winners of 82.  So too the brilliant Dutch team of the 70's.  Play entertaining football and you'll be liked by the media and most footbsll fans. Play shit on a stick football and you'll be liked by only those who support that particular team.   I certainly wouldn't much good to say about Jose and TT's  time at Chelsea if there wasn't the trophies to compensate for putting up with the  grinding, sterlie dross they served up most weeks.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There certainly is a biased nature from some journalists and pundits, Jenas is one of the biggest culprits, if he ever praised us I think I’d collapse.

There was also a clear agenda against Mourinho from some and I don’t think he did always serve up sterile dross. When he came back to the club I thought we played some brilliant football at times personally, but we were still labelled boring, which I think is nonsense.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder anyway, if you only concede 15 goals a season, I think there’s beauty in the art of defending. There are many ways to win games and trophies, it’s a sport, not the cinema and that’s just the way I view it personally, but each to their own. If the English media only want to laud specialists in failure, then that’s their prerogative, Wenger won sod all for years. I will say though, that I’d prefer to win playing beautiful football, it’s just not the be all and end all for me.