Mauricio Pochettino leaves Chelsea by mutual consent

[boratsbrother]

12 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

He's not a right back, that's for sure. 

But how good he is, or isn't, is not the point I was making. It was about whether he is being picked over certain others because Poch is trying to prove a point, or not. 

Personally, I think he is picking the team that he thinks is the best available to him

In an end of season game, one player played out of position in place of a player coming back from injury is no big deal.

Selections were a shambles at times earlier in the season but I think he was just trying to find a team from who was available. The team is clearly more settled now and will be even more so next season, the exception being the defence which still needs a lot of work during the pre season. As things stand, there is no combination of players or a keeper which is top four level defence.

Edited May 20 by boratsbrother

[east lower]

24 minutes ago, Bison said:

All the briefings make sense if you think of it that way. Some people are fighting for their jobs. 

And therein lies the issues with a multi-layered structure - it’s where the responsibility lies for performance levels and what’s acceptable and what’s not.

At least with the old way of a hierarchical Management you knew and quite rightly, where the buck stopped. Especially with players and new signings. Now you have the lizards crawling around, trying to find cover for themselves and not focussing firstly and foremostly on the team. Briefings and counter-briefings aplenty.

The multi-layered approach is fine, as long as you have all pulling in the same direction and have reasonable and proportionate levels of success I.e. Man City, Arsenal (not won a league, but unfortunately look as if they may in a season or two - as long as they stay aligned and together). Liverpool maybe - have to see how it holds together with Kipplity going. Dutch are a spiky race, so could be choppy waters ahead for them (let’s 🙏 for that). 
 

Our lot seem to be jostling for position and longevity. 

[boratsbrother]

2 minutes ago, ROTG said:

There are plenty of players below Trevor’s level who the not dynamic duo paid a kings a ransom for. 

There's only Mudryk, Cucu, Caicedo and Enzo who they paid a lot of money for. Out of those, after a bad start, i'd say Caicedo is definitely a higher level than Chalobah. Cucu is at least Chalobah's level. Mudryk has a higher ceiling.  Enzo looks a bad buy for that money.

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, east lower said:

And therein lies the issues with a multi-layered structure - it’s where the responsibility lies for performance levels and what’s acceptable and what’s not.

At least with the old way of a hierarchical Management you knew and quite rightly, where the buck stopped. Especially with players and new signings. Now you have the lizards crawling around, trying to find cover for themselves and not focussing firstly and foremostly on the team. Briefings and counter-briefings aplenty.

The multi-layered approach is fine, as long as you have all pulling in the same direction and have reasonable and proportionate levels of success I.e. Man City, Arsenal (not won a league, but unfortunately look as if they may in a season or two - as long as they stay aligned and together). Liverpool maybe - have to see how it holds together with Kipplity going. Dutch are a spiky race, so could be choppy waters ahead for them (let’s 🙏 for that). 
 

Our lot seem to be jostling for position and longevity. 

It's always struck me as odd that someone could get sacked because someone else above them wasn't any good at their job but here we are. 

[boratsbrother]

4 minutes ago, east lower said:

And therein lies the issues with a multi-layered structure - it’s where the responsibility lies for performance levels and what’s acceptable and what’s not.

At least with the old way of a hierarchical Management you knew and quite rightly, where the buck stopped. Especially with players and new signings. Now you have the lizards crawling around, trying to find cover for themselves and not focussing firstly and foremostly on the team. Briefings and counter-briefings aplenty.

The multi-layered approach is fine, as long as you have all pulling in the same direction and have reasonable and proportionate levels of success I.e. Man City, Arsenal (not won a league, but unfortunately look as if they may in a season or two - as long as they stay aligned and together). Liverpool maybe - have to see how it holds together with Kipplity going. Dutch are a spiky race, so could be choppy waters ahead for them (let’s 🙏 for that). 
 

Our lot seem to be jostling for position and longevity. 

We all accepth that everything was done in a mad rush when the new owners tookover. The big question is, does their plan look like it's starting to work? I say there's every sign that it is. Going from an absolute shambles to what has been the fourth best team in the league in 2024  is proof of that.

 

[Bison]

18 minutes ago, east lower said:

And therein lies the issues with a multi-layered structure - it’s where the responsibility lies for performance levels and what’s acceptable and what’s not.

At least with the old way of a hierarchical Management you knew and quite rightly, where the buck stopped. Especially with players and new signings. Now you have the lizards crawling around, trying to find cover for themselves and not focussing firstly and foremostly on the team. Briefings and counter-briefings aplenty.

The multi-layered approach is fine, as long as you have all pulling in the same direction and have reasonable and proportionate levels of success I.e. Man City, Arsenal (not won a league, but unfortunately look as if they may in a season or two - as long as they stay aligned and together). Liverpool maybe - have to see how it holds together with Kipplity going. Dutch are a spiky race, so could be choppy waters ahead for them (let’s 🙏 for that). 
 

Our lot seem to be jostling for position and longevity. 

Just seen this:

Valued at 25m, 20m cheaper than the players he's currently keeping out of the team on merit. 

Mudryk for 60m, sold CHO for 5m.

Surely somebody steps in sooner rather than later to stop this madness? 

[johnnybozo]

Poch deserves another season. Can at least see what he's trying to achieve and got something in 2024 out of this group of jokers. Give him until January and interview potential replacements in the meantime just in case.

[east lower]

8 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

We all accepth that everything was done in a mad rush when the new owners tookover. The big question is, does their plan look like it's starting to work? I say there's every sign that it is. Going from an absolute shambles to what has been the fourth best team in the league in 2024  is proof of that.

 

Below Spuds and Villa who both had awful end of the season finishes.

Hardly a badge of honour and being objective below or in line with most people’s expectations.

You’ll keep banging the positive performance drum, I’m far from convinced. Yesterday’s performance another example of a game that could have gone a different way.

Better coach and we may have looked at fourth, might of scored less but we also may well have conceded a lot less. We’re the wrong way round. Wonderful for those not that invested, but not so good for those fans who who want more than watching a ‘good game’, result second.

[My Blood Is Blue]

24 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

It's always struck me as odd that someone could get sacked because someone else above them wasn't any good at their job but here we are. 

This is essentially what happened to me a couple of months ago. It's maddening.

[Miguelito07]

8 minutes ago, Bison said:

Just seen this:

Valued at 25m, 20m cheaper than the players he's currently keeping out of the team on merit. 

Mudryk for 60m, sold CHO for 5m.

Surely somebody steps in sooner rather than later to stop this madness? 

I would rather sell Disai than Chalobah - but that isnt going to happen.

[east lower]

26 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

It's always struck me as odd that someone could get sacked because someone else above them wasn't any good at their job but here we are. 

‘‘Tis the modern way, dear boy”  😉

Lump the work onto the donkeys, us thoroughbreds will munch on the juicy feed that their hard-work buys. Let them eat hay, then when we get asked for more, lump it onto the beasts of burden. When we can no longer escape at least a little bit of work and responsibility - run for the hills.

Sounds like some medieval folk tale, but I see it every week in the workplace.

Edited May 20 by east lower

[My Blood Is Blue]

9 minutes ago, Bison said:

Just seen this:

Valued at 25m, 20m cheaper than the players he's currently keeping out of the team on merit. 

Mudryk for 60m, sold CHO for 5m.

Surely somebody steps in sooner rather than later to stop this madness? 

If that's the case, someone will get themselves a bargain!

[Chelsea_Matt]

25 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

We all accepth that everything was done in a mad rush when the new owners tookover. The big question is, does their plan look like it's starting to work? I say there's every sign that it is. Going from an absolute shambles to what has been the fourth best team in the league in 2024  is proof of that.

 

We are not the fourth best team in the league. We are a long, long way from that. The last few performances have been better but that’s about it. IMO. 

[Bison]

3 minutes ago, Miguelito07 said:

I would rather sell Disai than Chalobah - but that isnt going to happen.

I think it's pretty clear Poch would. He's more mobile and covers more positions at a better level. Chalobah is clearly better at RB than Disasi for instance.

The person who paid 45m for Disasi however needs Chalobah gone. Self interest above squad building. 

[chara]

Hard to get the true feeling overall regarding the standing of The Poch with the fans and specifically on here.

A perspective from an OG,,,just a perspective,,,not THE perpective,

The unrecognised,,,for what ever reason,,,,,false dawn of the encouraging pre season games led to maybe higher expectations than were feasible but the absolute dross and shambles we all watched for much of the season was beyond acceptable even taking into account injuries and the upheavals of the  not so " Brave New post RA World",

Added to that some disgraceful pressers from The Poch certainly led me to question his ability to lead Chelsea any where and ,to my mind fully justified the anti Poch opinions from Mark and myself among others,

The end to the Season led to a softening by most of us anti's and fair comments regarding the obvious improvements seen in the run down to the end of the season.

I for one look at his "form" and as is the general feeling..I think... feel he is not the long term man for Chelsea...another season will show improvement I'm sure but ultimately The Poch will always..imho...be an almost man with a modicum of success but no triumphs on a consistent level.

[paulw66]

40 minutes ago, Bison said:

Just seen this:

Valued at 25m, 20m cheaper than the players he's currently keeping out of the team on merit. 

Mudryk for 60m, sold CHO for 5m.

Surely somebody steps in sooner rather than later to stop this madness? 

"It is believed the club will stick with the 25m valuation"

According to? The guess work from the author, I presume?

[ROTG]

9 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

"It is believed the club will stick with the 25m valuation"

According to? The guess work from the author, I presume?

It’s Matt law which is usually a reliable source. 

[Thiago97]

1 hour ago, east lower said:

And therein lies the issues with a multi-layered structure - it’s where the responsibility lies for performance levels and what’s acceptable and what’s not.

At least with the old way of a hierarchical Management you knew and quite rightly, where the buck stopped. Especially with players and new signings. Now you have the lizards crawling around, trying to find cover for themselves and not focussing firstly and foremostly on the team. Briefings and counter-briefings aplenty.

The multi-layered approach is fine, as long as you have all pulling in the same direction and have reasonable and proportionate levels of success I.e. Man City, Arsenal (not won a league, but unfortunately look as if they may in a season or two - as long as they stay aligned and together). Liverpool maybe - have to see how it holds together with Kipplity going. Dutch are a spiky race, so could be choppy waters ahead for them (let’s 🙏 for that). 
 

Our lot seem to be jostling for position and longevity. 

It’s funny you mention the Dutch here, my thoughts exactly. I was trying to think of a way of posting this, without it coming across the wrong way!  I think you managed it here though.

I do question that Dutch mentality even more with a big club (non Dutch), considering how temperamental modern players are these days ! 

 

[Sciatika]

I liked Gus Hiddink

[chara]

3 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

I liked Gus Hiddink

I liked Gus McCrea 😁

Agree about Hiddink though..... my wonderful mad neighbour Hendrick is Dutch a very kind if crazy man but I can see where the Dutch bristle comment comes from.

[east lower]

34 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

It’s funny you mention the Dutch here, my thoughts exactly. I was trying to think of a way of posting this, without it coming across the wrong way!  I think you managed it here though.

I do question that Dutch mentality even more with a big club (non Dutch), considering how temperamental modern players are these days ! 

 

I was thinking of using the adage that they’ve a tendency to press the ‘self-destruct button’, but thought that applied more to their national team as opposed to a mentality.  Think it may be a lowland country thing as the Belgian’s have a tendency to be less than the sum of their combined parts at a national level.

[boratsbrother]

1 hour ago, east lower said:

Below Spuds and Villa who both had awful end of the season finishes.

Hardly a badge of honour and being objective below or in line with most people’s expectations.

You’ll keep banging the positive performance drum, I’m far from convinced. Yesterday’s performance another example of a game that could have gone a different way.

Better coach and we may have looked at fourth, might of scored less but we also may well have conceded a lot less. We’re the wrong way round. Wonderful for those not that invested, but not so good for those fans who who want more than watching a ‘good game’, result second.

Villa and Spurs had poor ends to their seasons. We had a poor start to the season, so what's your point?  Having a poor start, poor middle or poor makes no difference. Have a poor run at any time of a season and it'll cost at team at the end of that season. 

 I agree it wasn't a good performance  yesterday, but it's another game where we ground out a result in a game we didn't play well in. That is something every team needs to do to be successful and it's something we were not doing in the last couple of years. 

As for me only being interested in seeing a good game and the result is always second. I've never actually said that. What I have said is that playing entertaining, attacking football is very important to me as a viewer of the game. But I am realistic enough to admit that if I want my team to be a very successful one, there will be times when the result is the more important. There will be times when the team needs to grind  out a result when they are up against it.  What I do not and never will like is a manager who sets his team out to be pragmatic  most of the time. Managers who don't let their most skillful players express themselves and put workrate over creativity.

What I have seen numerous times this season from our fans at the games is the kind of reactions we've not seen in a long, long time. The reaction to the third goal at Forest was as wild as a crucial win in a top of the table clash, yet it was between a midtable team against one who nearly got relegated. That to me shows those fans who are more "invested" are enjoying what they are seeing. 

[boratsbrother]

1 hour ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

We are not the fourth best team in the league. We are a long, long way from that. The last few performances have been better but that’s about it. IMO. 

We have the fourth most points since Boxing day 2023, so its a statistical fact that we've been the fourth best team of 2024.

[Sciatika]

Much as I'd like it to, I don't think it works like that. All we can say is that we were the sixth-best team in the league and that we had a better second half of the season than the first. What we have to do is get off to a really good start next time, try not to drop any points for the first half-dozen games (which will be very hard), and then see where it goes from there.

[east lower]

7 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Villa and Spurs had poor ends to their seasons. We had a poor start to the season, so what's your point?  Having a poor start, poor middle or poor makes no difference. Have a poor run at any time of a season and it'll cost at team at the end of that season. 

 I agree it wasn't a good performance  yesterday, but it's another game where we ground out a result in a game we didn't play well in. That is something every team needs to do to be successful and it's something we were not doing in the last couple of years. 

As for me only being interested in seeing a good game and the result is always second. I've never actually said that. What I have said is that playing entertaining, attacking football is very important to me as a viewer of the game. But I am realistic enough to admit that if I want my team to be a very successful one, there will be times when the result is the more important. There will be times when the team needs to grind  out a result when they are up against it.  What I do not and never will like is a manager who sets his team out to be pragmatic  most of the time. Managers who don't let their most skillful players express themselves and put workrate over creativity.

What I have seen numerous times this season from our fans at the games is the kind of reactions we've not seen in a long, long time. The reaction to the third goal at Forest was as wild as a crucial win in a top of the table clash, yet it was between a midtable team against one who nearly got relegated. That to me shows those fans who are more "invested" are enjoying what they are seeing. 

We’d have finished higher had the coach been better at his job. Lucked in at the end.

Didn’t mention you by name, but if the cap fits and all that.

Result first, performance second - but this debate has been had by us before.

If that’s what you believe as regards celebrations - fine and dandy. I’d suggest you attend a few more games and then you’ll get a true representation based on fact, that sort of celebration was normal for our fans in a come from behind win with not too long left. I’m basing the latter on lots of years of personal experience, don’t know what you’re basing your ideas on?