Mauricio Pochettino leaves Chelsea by mutual consent

[jasonb]

All well and good talking about De Zerbi yet he might not want to come and might just prefer Utd who then?

Or are we just jumping where the grass looks greener?

 

[martin1905]

10 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

In fairness.

Re Colwill playing LB over Chilwell: There's two main reasons for this that I see.

• Mudryk playing on the left doesn't tend to track back well, so having a defensive player in behind that'll hold their position for cover makes sense. 
• Chilwell isn't a very good link and overlap type of fullback, he's more about getting forward and making runs in behind. This basically means you get two players trying to occupy the same attacking spaces if partnered with Mudryk ahead. 

Mudryk has started 2 games, out of 6. And been subbed off after an hour both times.

Ben Chilwell is one of the best left backs around so having him behind Mudryk makes so much more sense, in any way shape or form. 

30 minutes yesterday of Chilwell at left back and Colwill centre half really should end any debate.

10 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Re Enzo: I agree, he's better off in the pivot where he can be played through more. I can also understand why we'd push him higher for the time being given Palmer only just arrived, and a midfield group of Gallagher, Enzo and Caicedo is more solid within general play on paper. 

It's irrelevant how long Palmer has been here. Enzo is useless as a 10. He's absolutely rubbish and offers nothing.

He is also a different level to Gallagher in the pivot. I love Gallagher but he's nowhere near as good as Enzo there so we are not getting the best out of two positions by using Enzo wrong.

It's criminal 

10 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Jackson's problem isn't support, he's combined well with Mudryk and a couple others dropping deeper.

Again Mudryk has started 2 games and been subbed off after an hour in both. 

Jackson has linked up well with him and whenever they play together looks much better.

Watch him next time he plays with Enzo behind him, he's constantly looking over his shoulder for support both when we have the ball and when he starts the press.

His lack of support is a huge part of the problem.

10 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

What needs to change is his decision making (eg; holding onto the ball too long/trying to dribble through sides himself), and his finishing. Also his stupid bookings, that needs to change big time. 

Funny that his lack of support leads to him holding onto the ball too long and trying to dribble through sides himself. 

Just watch him in pre season and watch him now. It's glaringly obvious he's a different player with players alongside him to support him.

He is so isolated at the moment it's ridiculous.

[Thiago97]

6 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Never said it has anything to do with winning, but you do like to put words into my mouth.....

Prime example, I can say till I'm blue in the face that it's not just about the past six games yet you keep claiming it is.

I don't rate Pochettino as a manager and don't like him.

I really rate De Zebri and like him a lot.

It's not that difficult.

Also what the two have achieved is subjective, one could make an argument that what De Zebri has achieved at Brighton, in such a short space of time is far more impressive than anything Pochettino has ever done.

Qualifying for CL and reaching the final, plus winning a title in France.

No one could make that argument stand up. No matter how subjective.

[Max Fowler]

2 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

Qualifying for CL and reaching the final, plus winning a title in France.

No one could make that argument stand up. No matter how subjective.

I can honestly see where Martin is coming from.

What De Zerbi has done at Brighton is nothing short of revolutionary. Yes he had the groundwork of Potter, but he has taken them up so many levels it's untrue.

Yes Poch won a league with PSG but he also lost a league with them - that's a nearly impossible feat in modern history.

[Max Fowler]

14 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

I really rate De Zebri and like him a lot.

Also what the two have achieved is subjective, one could make an argument that what De Zebri has achieved at Brighton, in such a short space of time is far more impressive than anything Pochettino has ever done.

No offence Martin, if you want to make a compelling case for De Zerbi you might start by learning how to spell his name.

😉 Just teasing.

[Thiago97]

3 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I can honestly see where Martin is coming from.

What De Zerbi has done at Brighton is nothing short of revolutionary. Yes he had the groundwork of Potter, but he has taken them up so many levels it's untrue.

Yes Poch won a league with PSG but he also lost a league with them - that's a nearly impossible feat in modern history.

What he has achieved at Brighton, off the back of the good work he did at Shakthar and Sassuolo is very impressive.

I am not denying any of that, and as I have said many times, I like De Zerbi.

However, this still does not sit alongside what Poch has done right now. De Zerbi may well take it to this level and go above and beyond it, but it does not come close to equalling getting Spurs into the CL in the first place, then actually making a final. We can all scorn what he did at PSG. He still won a title. He still gets the medal and he still gets that on his CV.

[Dwmh]

Outstatted - must be getting old.

3 hours ago, martin1905 said:

You say that, like others that have bought into this myth but the last 14 games in 21/22 and his first 6 games of last season.

Played 20 

Won 11

Drew 4

Lost 5

PPG 1.85 = 70 points 

That is the last 20 PL games.
The last 20 games are W11, D5, L6
with one of the wins not being enough to keep us in the CL, and one of the draws going on to be a loss on penalties.
More over that followed a 6 win run so a turn of form was clear in late March 2022 - when stuff was going on.
 

3 hours ago, martin1905 said:

Again, surprised by you but this is just not true. It's not just untrue it's wildly inaccurate 

Played 22

Won 7

Drew 7

Lost 8

PPG 1.27 = 48 points

Or all games P31, W12, D8, L10
with the disadvantage of just 2 domestic cup games where we came up against Man city both times but the advantage of playing group CL games not knock out games.

Yes you are right TT was a bit better than Potter, but the difference is not as wildly inaccurate when comparing all games, not just PL,

On the other hand you could argue that Potter's run of games pretty much continued the trend.  TT's last 20 fell off a cliff from the previous season and three quarters.

Again - there were a lot of issues by late March 2022.  The 4-1 defeat to brentford might be a cause as well as a symptom.
And WTF was the idea of playing PLC at CM?  Perhaps as well I wasn't around to comment on that.
 

3 hours ago, martin1905 said:

To be fair I have no idea what you are talking about here.

I'm just speculating about where other issues might have come from.  But I presume you understand the Mount, Gilmour Chilwell context.

3 hours ago, martin1905 said:

If you believe that Tuchel thought he had any chance of joining Bayern then you could make anything sound feasible. Nobody expected Nagelsmann to lose his job last season, literally nobody.

I always believe that my speculation is at least as valid as the speculation in teh media which is suject to all kinds of mis-guidance.

As you say no one expected Nagelsmann to lose his job.  But it did happen.  BM must have been thinking of something - so thinking of bringing in TT earlier on might well be part of that.
Indeed TT might have been the first choice back in 2021 when they hired Nagelsmann.
Im working on what does not conflict with the evidence we have now.  Not on what seemed likely or unlikely at the time.

3 hours ago, martin1905 said:

Quite. Frank done us a favour, at the expense of his own reputation, whatever he had left, nothing more nothing less. His time here shouldn't even be bought into the conversation when it comes to results and performances.

I don't blame Frank.  His status as a player and his other status as a manager were set long ago.
But the further tail off after Potter went does suggest that Potter himself wasn't actually doing too much wrong, in fact it strenghtens the idea that other things were upsetting the team.  Again don't know exactly what, but we don't need to know exactly.

And of course bringing back Frank was a big indication that the board didn't have a clue.  Most of the 2021/22 team had seen Frank in action as a manager.  They knew what they had been lumbered with - imagine what Silva thought!   I'd already decided about Clearlake long before, but that was crowning evidence for me.

 

 

3 hours ago, martin1905 said:

I'd have Jose back in a heartbeat and said so before Potter was sacked. 

Clearly I'm being tongue in cheek about JM.  I like to think of him as Lester Piggott, brought in by the best owners to race their horses only when they are ready to win and be raced truly flat out.  Not sure what he is doing at Roma.
That ws something that RA got right - bringing in the top jockeys when the team was right: JMx2, Scolari(failed, quickly), CA, Conte, Tuchel.
And bringing in lighter hands when things were going wrong Hiddinkx2, Grant
And young men when the squad was in clear development phase  AVB, Lampard Mk !

What I am really looking forward to is the moment when the team is strong enough to bring in a Racer.
Unfortunately this is not something Clearlake understands.

 

[martin1905]

27 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

Qualifying for CL and reaching the final, plus winning a title in France.

No one could make that argument stand up. No matter how subjective.

Well, you may not think so but that doesn't mean it doesn't stand up.

Winning a title with PSG after coming second the year before is nothing compared to what De Zebri has done at Brighton

I think, considering the size of clubs being talked about what he has done at Brighton is equally as impressive as what Pochettino did at Tottenham, especially when you look at the two squads they had to work with.

But it's much easily to just dismiss it and say someone's wrong, I get that.

[Max Fowler]

18 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

Outstatted - must be getting old.

That is the last 20 PL games.
The last 20 games are W11, D5, L6
with one of the wins not being enough to keep us in the CL, and one of the draws going on to be a loss on penalties.
More over that followed a 6 win run so a turn of form was clear in late March 2022 - when stuff was going on.
 

Or all games P31, W12, D8, L10
with the disadvantage of just 2 domestic cup games where we came up against Man city both times but the advantage of playing group CL games not knock out games.

Yes you are right TT was a bit better than Potter, but the difference is not as wildly inaccurate when comparing all games, not just PL,

On the other hand you could argue that Potter's run of games pretty much continued the trend.  TT's last 20 fell off a cliff from the previous season and three quarters.

Again - there were a lot of issues by late March 2022.  The 4-1 defeat to brentford might be a cause as well as a symptom.
And WTF was the idea of playing PLC at CM?  Perhaps as well I wasn't around to comment on that.
 

I'm just speculating about where other issues might have come from.  But I presume you understand the Mount, Gilmour Chilwell context.

I always believe that my speculation is at least as valid as the speculation in teh media which is suject to all kinds of mis-guidance.

As you say no one expected Nagelsmann to lose his job.  But it did happen.  BM must have been thinking of something - so thinking of bringing in TT earlier on might well be part of that.
Indeed TT might have been the first choice back in 2021 when they hired Nagelsmann.
Im working on what does not conflict with the evidence we have now.  Not on what seemed likely or unlikely at the time.

I don't blame Frank.  His status as a player and his other status as a manager were set long ago.
But the further tail off after Potter went does suggest that Potter himself wasn't actually doing too much wrong, in fact it strenghtens the idea that other things were upsetting the team.  Again don't know exactly what, but we don't need to know exactly.

And of course bringing back Frank was a big indication that the board didn't have a clue.  Most of the 2021/22 team had seen Frank in action as a manager.  They knew what they had been lumbered with - imagine what Silva thought!   I'd already decided about Clearlake long before, but that was crowning evidence for me.

 

 

Clearly I'm being tongue in cheek about JM.  I like to think of him as Lester Piggott, brought in by the best owners to race their horses only when they are ready to win and be raced truly flat out.  Not sure what he is doing at Roma.
That ws something that RA got right - bringing in the top jockeys when the team was right: JMx2, Scolari(failed, quickly), CA, Conte, Tuchel.
And bringing in lighter hands when things were going wrong Hiddinkx2, Grant
And young men when the squad was in clear development phase  AVB, Lampard Mk !

What I am really looking forward to is the moment when the team is strong enough to bring in a Racer.
Unfortunately this is not something Clearlake understands.

 

Agree with Martin on this. Noone saw Nagelsmann leaving. I understand Tuchel may have even been close to joining Spurs.

We were miles better under Tuchel than Potter in the league, even at our worst moments.

And by the way, every manager has tough moments in the PL. Guardiola has early on, so has Klopp.

[Mark Kelly]

1 hour ago, Thiago97 said:

You were the worse culprit on here from absolutely ripping them last season. Now you have confidence they are not the issue.

Keep up. 

It's different players. 

Last year it was totally on them for giving up, maybe rightly so given the manager.

This season they're trying but are being hamstrung by an idiot. 

Any competent manager comes in, plays Colwill as a CB, Chilwell as a FB, Enzo in the pivot and Palmer as a 10, in doing so gives Mudryk some help from Chilwell overlapping and overloading the defence and Jackson some support up front and we are instantly in one game, better than we are under Pochettino, I absolutely guarantee it. 

Thanks for keeping count though. 

[Thiago97]

15 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Keep up. 

It's different players. 

Last year it was totally on them for giving up, maybe rightly so given the manager.

This season they're trying but are being hamstrung by an idiot. 

Any competent manager comes in, plays Colwill as a CB, Chilwell as a FB, Enzo in the pivot and Palmer as a 10, in doing so gives Mudryk some help from Chilwell overlapping and overloading the defence and Jackson some support up front and we are instantly in one game, better than we are under Pochettino, I absolutely guarantee it. 

Thanks for keeping count though. 

Give over. It's constant flip flopping based around knee jerk reactions of what is going wrong at the time.

I've not seen you be too positive about the players we have signed. Lavia ? Sanchez ? Disasi ? 

So I am finding it hard to believe this notion that its the new players you now have full confidence in. It was just last seasons players that you were continuously positing were gutless , spineless etc......the same group of players who achieved far more for Chelsea than any of the new crop have so far.

Fantasy knee jerk stuff!

Edited September 25, 2023 by Thiago97

[martin1905]

30 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

Outstatted - must be getting old.

That is the last 20 PL games.
The last 20 games are W11, D5, L6
with one of the wins not being enough to keep us in the CL, and one of the draws going on to be a loss on penalties.
More over that followed a 6 win run so a turn of form was clear in late March 2022 - when stuff was going on.
 

Or all games P31, W12, D8, L10
with the disadvantage of just 2 domestic cup games where we came up against Man city both times but the advantage of playing group CL games not knock out games.

Yes you are right TT was a bit better than Potter, but the difference is not as wildly inaccurate when comparing all games, not just PL,

On the other hand you could argue that Potter's run of games pretty much continued the trend.  TT's last 20 fell off a cliff from the previous season and three quarters.

Again - there were a lot of issues by late March 2022.  The 4-1 defeat to brentford might be a cause as well as a symptom.
And WTF was the idea of playing PLC at CM?  Perhaps as well I wasn't around to comment on that.
 

I'm just speculating about where other issues might have come from.  But I presume you understand the Mount, Gilmour Chilwell context.

I always believe that my speculation is at least as valid as the speculation in teh media which is suject to all kinds of mis-guidance.

As you say no one expected Nagelsmann to lose his job.  But it did happen.  BM must have been thinking of something - so thinking of bringing in TT earlier on might well be part of that.
Indeed TT might have been the first choice back in 2021 when they hired Nagelsmann.
Im working on what does not conflict with the evidence we have now.  Not on what seemed likely or unlikely at the time.

I don't blame Frank.  His status as a player and his other status as a manager were set long ago.
But the further tail off after Potter went does suggest that Potter himself wasn't actually doing too much wrong, in fact it strenghtens the idea that other things were upsetting the team.  Again don't know exactly what, but we don't need to know exactly.

And of course bringing back Frank was a big indication that the board didn't have a clue.  Most of the 2021/22 team had seen Frank in action as a manager.  They knew what they had been lumbered with - imagine what Silva thought!   I'd already decided about Clearlake long before, but that was crowning evidence for me.

 

 

Clearly I'm being tongue in cheek about JM.  I like to think of him as Lester Piggott, brought in by the best owners to race their horses only when they are ready to win and be raced truly flat out.  Not sure what he is doing at Roma.
That ws something that RA got right - bringing in the top jockeys when the team was right: JMx2, Scolari(failed, quickly), CA, Conte, Tuchel.
And bringing in lighter hands when things were going wrong Hiddinkx2, Grant
And young men when the squad was in clear development phase  AVB, Lampard Mk !

What I am really looking forward to is the moment when the team is strong enough to bring in a Racer.
Unfortunately this is not something Clearlake understands.

 

Oh ,come on, you know why I'm using league stats and cup stats are pretty irrelevant, especially when it comes to a manager letting sacked.

No managed has ever survived being awful in the league but doing well in cups.

Our form under Tuchel most certainly did not drop off a cliff. There are so many reasons as to why we lose cup games it bears no resemblance to a teams real form or standing. 

You yourself have always been very vocal about the numbers of league points teams get as the barometer for where they are, not how well they do in cup competitions.

 

 

[Mark Kelly]

16 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

Give over. It's constant flip flopping based around knee jerk reactions of what is going wrong at the time.

I've not seen you be too positive about the players we have signed. Lavia ? Sanchez ? Disasi ? 

So I am finding it hard to believe this notion that its the new players you now have full confidence in. It was just last seasons players that you were continuously positing were gutless , spineless etc......the same group of players who achieved far more for Chelsea than any of the new crop have so far.

Fantasy knee jerk stuff!

How can anyone be positive about Lavia exactly , positive that he looked good in stripes?

Sanchez has been excellent two games running probably because he isn't being coached by porky .

Disasi to my knowledge I have never mentioned one way or the other and other than not being massively quick is absolutely fine I have no issues with him whatsoever.

Last season's players were gutless and spineless , they gave up on the club , I'm not saying this new lot are better , I'm saying that Pochettino is actively making them look worse .

As for flip flopping , I've been saying the same thing for weeks , it's those who expect different results from doing the same things who need putting straight .

Anyway enough about my views , what are yours or are you just here to dissect everyone else's opinion? 

Let's get it on writing so we can laugh and point when you're shown to be wrong !

Edited September 25, 2023 by Mark Kelly

[Thiago97]

1 minute ago, Mark Kelly said:

How can anyone be positive about Lavia exactly , positive that he looked good in stripes?

Sanchez has been excellent two games running probably because he isn't being coached by porky .

Disasi to my knowledge I have never mentioned one way or the other and other than not being massively quick is absolutely fine I have no issues with him whatsoever.

Last season's players were gutless and spineless , they gave up on the club , I'm not saying this new lot are better , I'm saying that Pochettino is actively making them look worse .

My apologies on Disasi, I must have got that wrong then.

Too many contradictory comments by those who just want the manager gone, cos they are struggling to deal with continued bad results over the last 12-18 months. We are all struggling with it, and if Poch has to go because the situation does not improve, then he will have to live/die by that. Six games in is not the time though.

 

[Max Fowler]

Interesting....
 

 

[xceleryx]

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

Mudryk has started 2 games, out of 6. And been subbed off after an hour both times.

Ben Chilwell is one of the best left backs around so having him behind Mudryk makes so much more sense, in any way shape or form. 

30 minutes yesterday of Chilwell at left back and Colwill centre half really should end any debate.

Obviously I was speaking about recent games with Mudryk in the side, hence he was referenced. From an overall perspective, there's been other reasons such as injuries resulting in a lack of wide options. 

Ideally Chilwell is playing fullback, but let's not pretend it's been as straight forward as that either. We'd have still had to plug a hole higher up the pitch with someone else out of position, I can see why Chilwell was chosen given he operates quite high in general. 

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

It's irrelevant how long Palmer has been here. Enzo is useless as a 10. He's absolutely rubbish and offers nothing.

He is also a different level to Gallagher in the pivot. I love Gallagher but he's nowhere near as good as Enzo there so we are not getting the best out of two positions by using Enzo wrong.

It's criminal 

Isn't irrelevant at all, Palmer needs a bit of time to settle in before being thrown straight into the mixer. While Enzo as a #10, not that he's really been playing as a #10 in all honesty anyway, was also an unknown up until the last couple of games in that position. We all can see it's not his best role, but we'd have never really known what impact he'd have there without seeing either. 

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

Watch him next time he plays with Enzo behind him, he's constantly looking over his shoulder for support both when we have the ball and when he starts the press.

I'd like to think a striker is looking back to see where his teammates are for obvious reasons, a major one being to acknowledge what attacking spaces to take up and what to leave for others. As I said before, Enzo isn't really playing as #10 to begin with, and Jackson himself isn't playing particularly central either with a lot of his work being done in the wider channels also. 

Enzo is playing in the deeper half spaces on the right hand side, Sterling is ahead of him along the right wing and inside right channels, with Jackson drifting out there also to play off the two - in particular Sterling. Gallagher then tends to be the one pushing higher central into that #10 like space behind the CF. With the left winger, whoever it's been, has kept wider to stretch the play and allow the central corridor to remain somewhat open for Enzo and Gallagher to move into. If Jackson isn't dropping deeper to connect he's generally playing high on he shoulder of the last defender to be played in behind, when that's the case your going to be a little more isolated then normal.

All of this is quite noticeable on the eye, but it's also represented in each player's individual heat maps. A "lack of support" isn't the the core issue here, it's the decision making and execution once there - Jackson being a common guilty party.

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

Funny that his lack of support leads to him holding onto the ball too long and trying to dribble through sides himself. 

Just watch him in pre season and watch him now. It's glaringly obvious he's a different player with players alongside him to support him.

He is so isolated at the moment it's ridiculous.

Again, not a lack of support but trying to do too much. Take for example the Villa game here, he had a couple of opportunities to play others in, Sterling being one in the first half, but chose to try and take two defenders on instead and lost possession. Not the first time this season either. It has shades of early days of Drogba, eventually he settled and hopefully Jackson will also. 

Pre-season is tough to truly gauge anything on, you should know that as well as anyone. 

Agree to disagree. 

Will leave it at that. 

[Mark Kelly]

14 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

My apologies on Disasi, I must have got that wrong then.

Too many contradictory comments by those who just want the manager gone, cos they are struggling to deal with continued bad results over the last 12-18 months. We are all struggling with it, and if Poch has to go because the situation does not improve, then he will have to live/die by that. Six games in is not the time though.

 

As I said previously , I don't want him gone per se , I want him to set the side up so that our young side full of unproven promise can play to their strengths not their weaknesses so that we have an idea of whether they're any good at football or not .

I'm disappointed with a coach with a reputation of being able to get the best out of young players hanging them out to dry , Colwill , Enzo , Mudryk , Jackson all being made to look worse and for what end exactly ? I don't know and I'm betting you don't either .

It's either he's worried about the low experience in the group so he's decided he has to play Silva but equally he's worried about Silvas mobility so he then has to play Colwill next to him which then has a knock on effect elsewhere .

We are a young side , nobody would worry if the young side gave it their best shot but came up short but we could see what the coach was trying to achieve .

I've got literally no idea what he's trying to achieve .

Is he going for "hard to beat" ? Evidently not .

Maybe he's going for "goal machines" hilariously not .

What's he aiming for ? 70 percent possession no decent chances ? Nailed it.

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Mark Kelly

[Max Fowler]

Unpaywalled full article: https://archive.ph/l5W75

 

 

[Chelsea_Matt]

16 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Unpaywalled full article: https://archive.ph/l5W75

 

 

This is a worry.

[martin1905]

27 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Obviously I was speaking about recent games with Mudryk in the side, hence he was referenced. From an overall perspective, there's been other reasons such as injuries resulting in a lack of wide options. 

Ideally Chilwell is playing fullback, but let's not pretend it's been as straight forward as that either. We'd have still had to plug a hole higher up the pitch with someone else out of position, I can see why Chilwell was chosen given he operates quite high in general. 

Isn't irrelevant at all, Palmer needs a bit of time to settle in before being thrown straight into the mixer. While Enzo as a #10, not that he's really been playing as a #10 in all honesty anyway, was also an unknown up until the last couple of games in that position. We all can see it's not his best role, but we'd have never really known what impact he'd have there without seeing either. 

I'd like to think a striker is looking back to see where his teammates are for obvious reasons, a major one being to acknowledge what attacking spaces to take up and what to leave for others. As I said before, Enzo isn't really playing as #10 to begin with, and Jackson himself isn't playing particularly central either with a lot of his work being done in the wider channels also. 

Enzo is playing in the deeper half spaces on the right hand side, Sterling is ahead of him along the right wing and inside right channels, with Jackson drifting out there also to play off the two - in particular Sterling. Gallagher then tends to be the one pushing higher central into that #10 like space behind the CF. With the left winger, whoever it's been, has kept wider to stretch the play and allow the central corridor to remain somewhat open for Enzo and Gallagher to move into. If Jackson isn't dropping deeper to connect he's generally playing high on he shoulder of the last defender to be played in behind, when that's the case your going to be a little more isolated then normal.

All of this is quite noticeable on the eye, but it's also represented in each player's individual heat maps. A "lack of support" isn't the the core issue here, it's the decision making and execution once there - Jackson being a common guilty party.

Again, not a lack of support but trying to do too much. Take for example the Villa game here, he had a couple of opportunities to play others in, Sterling being one in the first half, but chose to try and take two defenders on instead and lost possession. Not the first time this season either. It has shades of early days of Drogba, eventually he settled and hopefully Jackson will also. 

Pre-season is tough to truly gauge anything on, you should know that as well as anyone. 

Agree to disagree. 

Will leave it at that. 

You can't just write a long winded post dismissing someone's views and say that's it, I'm right your wrong and we will leave it at that.

Your best players should be playing in their best positions so regardless off the excuses you make they don't add up.

Chilwell should be at left back, Colwill should be at centre half. Enzo should be playing deeper. 

What you do with the LW and 10 position should have nothing to do with it. Chilwell and Enzo are two of our our very best players and they should play in their best position.

As for Jackson, the lack of support in terms of both when we have the ball and when we don't so when he tries to start the press is so blatantly obvious I'm really surprised you can't see it. Like I said watch him he's not just looking back to see where his team mates are, you can see it in his face, he's looking round for help and there is a massive hole where Enzo should be. He's getting really frustrated and it's really obvious why. 

All the talk and heat maps and stats won't change my opinion on any of this. I see what I see and it really is obvious what the issues are.

[JaneB]

(Bruno Saltor has ‘secretly’ left Chelsea)

[Mark Kelly]

2 minutes ago, JaneB said:

(Bruno Salter has ‘secretly’ left Chelsea)

A wise move .

[Thiago97]

32 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

As I said previously , I don't want him gone per se , I want him to set the side up so that our young side full of unproven promise can play to their strengths not their weaknesses so that we have an idea of whether they're any good at football or not .

I'm disappointed with a coach with a reputation of being able to get the best out of young players hanging them out to dry , Colwill , Enzo , Mudryk , Jackson all being made to look worse and for what end exactly ? I don't know and I'm betting you don't either .

It's either he's worried about the low experience in the group so he's decided he has to play Silva but equally he's worried about Silvas mobility so he then has to play Colwill next to him which then has a knock on effect elsewhere .

We are a young side , nobody would worry if the young side gave it their best shot but came up short but we could see what the coach was trying to achieve .

I've got literally no idea what he's trying to achieve .

Is he going for "hard to beat" ? Evidently not .

Maybe he's going for "goal machines" hilariously not .

What's he aiming for ? 70 percent possession no decent chances ? Nailed it.

 

No problem with you being disappointed so far, perfectly understandable to some degree. It has been 6 games though. Being disappointed enough to keep labelling him coward or clown after 20-25 games, is very different to doing this after 6 games.

I don't agree on the players being made to look worse either. Colwill has been playing well, Enzo was being lauded for his performances in the first 4 games this season, last 2 have not been the same standard. Mudryk showed nothing really last season, had his best game yesterday. Jackson has generally performed quite well, barring a quiet game at Bournemouth. I don't see any serious evidence for how Poch is making players look poorer than they are. I say serious evidence, cos we have only had 6 games and these players have not been consistently bad for 6 games either.

Personally, I believe I can se what he is trying to achieve, and I have posted regarding this on a number of occasions, so I do not really want to go over it again. I agree some tweaks are required though.

Yesterday was clearly a step in the right direction, compared with Bournemouth and Forest. It was a much better performance and we finally worked the oppo goalkeeper (lets not forget he made saves in at least 2 one on one scenarios). We had a questionable red card go against us when we clearly the better team for most of the first half, and the early stages of the 2nd half until Gusto seen red. Stephen Warnock made the point earlier, the refs watched it back 11 times, if you need to watch something 11 times, then it is not clear nor obvious.

We are on the wrong end of the margins through poor decision making in both attack and defence. Poch and the players need to find a way to change this. You look at Brighton yesterday, 0-1 down and outplayed, they got back into through a lucky OG and  the game turns. We cannot seem to buy that stroke of luck or small margin going in our favour, much like Gusto yesterday, they see to fall against us in many scenarios currently.

Be clinical and finish chances, we don't need to rely on these margins quite as much.

[xceleryx]

23 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

You can't just write a long winded post dismissing someone's views and say that's it, I'm right your wrong and we will leave it at that.

Your best players should be playing in their best positions so regardless off the excuses you make they don't add up.

Chilwell should be at left back, Colwill should be at centre half. Enzo should be playing deeper. 

What you do with the LW and 10 position should have nothing to do with it. Chilwell and Enzo are two of our our very best players and they should play in their best position.

As for Jackson, the lack of support in terms of both when we have the ball and when we don't so when he tries to start the press is so blatantly obvious I'm really surprised you can't see it. Like I said watch him he's not just looking back to see where his team mates are, you can see it in his face, he's looking round for help and there is a massive hole where Enzo should be. He's getting really frustrated and it's really obvious why. 

All the talk and heat maps and stats won't change my opinion on any of this. I see what I see and it really is obvious what the issues are.

There was never a case of "I'm right and you're wrong", I merely disagreed with what you said and proceeded to provide reasoning for that. 

Yes, they should, but it doesn't mean circumstances always allow for that either. Did you have this same hard nosed standpoint when Gallas was playing RB? What about the years Azpilicueta had to spend playing LB or RCB? Ivanvovic at RB and not CB like he played prior to arriving? How about Mourinho plonking Mikel in at DM despite being an attacking midfielder prior? I could go on with countless others but you get the picture. 

Just because Jackson starts a press doesn't mean the whole frontline or midfield have to join in either, believe it or not a forward can just press on his own depending on position and circumstance. But alas, there's just as many examples of the front three pressing together when Jackson engages. Is it a perfect pressing, not at all, but it's certainly more controlled where it's not leaving us exposed should it be beaten. 

So what's the point in having this discussion then if you're so dismissive of factual information out there that points to the contrary? All because you see what you want to see and proceed to be stubborn about being told otherwise. You get the irony of this right, surely? I might as well tell you that Sanchez is actually a striker because I saw him down at the park playing CF in a kick-about with friends. I saw it with my own eyes, so it's obviously true and I cannot be told otherwise.

[Dwmh]

2 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Agree with Martin on this. Noone saw Nagelsmann leaving. I understand Tuchel may have even been close to joining Spurs.

 

Like I said, I judge by the facts as seen from 2023, not what people were believing in 2022.
Nagelsmann was sacked ergo his job was vulnerable, what ever people thought at the time.

I'm not saying this is a prediction I would have made in 2022.  Just an explanation that looks much more likely with hindsight.

 

1 hour ago, Max Fowler said:

Unpaywalled full article: https://archive.ph/l5W75

Boehly Out!

Piece ends:

“If the fans chant ‘sack the manager’ they [the board] think about sacking the manager,” David Pleat once said. “If they chant ‘sack the board’, they definitely sack the manager.”

 

30 minutes ago, JaneB said:

(Bruno Saltor has ‘secretly’ left Chelsea)

Probably means Potter has a new job lined up.
Now which clubs are likely to replace their manager now?