Mauricio Pochettino leaves Chelsea by mutual consent

[Max Fowler]

Haha, I am getting dejavu.

 

 

[east lower]

24 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Haha, I am getting dejavu.

 

 

Try these for some stats- ZERO goals in 300 minutes against the Premier League powerhouses of Bournemouth, Nottingham Forest and as bad a Villa defence as I've seen in 5 seasons. 

As Mike Bassett might have said - Data led approach,  my arse!

The owner's had a brief hiatus with people maybe thinking they might just have gained a clue about how to build a team with the sale or giving away of some less than successful players. But, if they stay with this manager until Xmas there's a really serious chance we will be in a relegation scrap and this squad is not mentally or physically equipped to deal with that.

This team needs to start winning football matches and soon.

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by east lower

[east lower]

And the laughable irony is that they told us how badly ran the club was before they arrived. 

They have removed all of the most successful Chelsea bits and replaced them with a soulless set of pretenders.

If it wasn’t so tragically so, you’d struggle to believe just how badly they have ‘managed’ the scenario. 

Every step has been a backward one, even down to removing the travel subsidy for the away fans who use the official coaches. 

[Sleeping Dave]

On 24/09/2023 at 19:03, McCreadie said:

We have to stick with him hold our nerve and it will come good. To sack him would be the most stupid pointless and pathetic decision. You are not getting de Zerbi into this mess mid season.  Or at the end of the season. The mess is the mess. We have to tough it out. 

I agree with this. I’ve said before the only realistic goal we can have is gradual improvement. Should ensure we stay up and can go again in 2024/25. Yes, it really is that bad. 

On 24/09/2023 at 17:07, thevelourfog said:

I was confident Pochettino was the best available fit for where we were at the end of last season.

What really worries me is that ... I still think that. I think my reasoning was pretty solid and stacks up well. So the logical conclusion of that is that we are so totally and utterly broken that it really does not matter whoever is in the dug out.

It feels inevitable he'll be gone within the next 8 or 9 weeks, and I do not expect we'll be any better, worse or at all different for it.

Don't think it's self-serving melodrama to already say these lot are in the worst 3 or 4 owners in PL history. It's maybe only the Venkys at Blackburn I'd confidently say were worse.

Yep. I’m finding it incredibly hard to not agree with this 100%. 

On 24/09/2023 at 19:45, thevelourfog said:

I honestly wouldn't credit them with the strategy for this.

Ouch! Shots fired!!! 

21 hours ago, Dwmh said:

Pity - I went to see JM, but he was sat down smiling all match.  

😀

12 hours ago, martin1905 said:

You say that, like others that have bought into this myth but the last 14 games in 21/22 and his first 6 games of last season.

Played 20 

Won 11

Drew 4

Lost 5

PPG 1.85 = 70 points 

To be fair I have no idea what you are talking about here.

If you believe that Tuchel thought he had any chance of joining Bayern then you could make anything sound feasible. Nobody expected Nagelsmann to lose his job last season, literally nobody.

Again, surprised by you but this is just not true. It's not just untrue it's wildly inaccurate 

Played 22

Won 7

Drew 7

Lost 8

PPG 1.27 = 48 points

Tuchel's last 20 league games compared to Potters 22. It's not even remotely close so to say the manager made no difference, with the same set of players is quite clearly not true. It made a huge difference.

It's also not true that our performances dropped off under Tuchel, I'm very surprised that you have bought into this. There was a lot of people on here that wanted him gone, for some very peculiar reason, that kept saying this but it simply isn't true. It was used as a stick to beat Tuchel with, even though it was clearly a myth.

 

Quite. Frank done us a favour, at the expense of his own reputation, whatever he had left, nothing more nothing less. His time here shouldn't even be bought into the conversation when it comes to results and performances.

Well, I've been banging this drum for some time. How, if you broke our opening first 15 games down it was clearly obvious how easy our opening 8 were compared to the 7 coming up and just how important a good start was. 

I don't know what the boards priorities are but suspect if things don't improve drastically then he will be gone. That's not me calling for his head or saying he should or shouldn't be sacked. It's just pretty obvious that if our form carries on like it has by the time we play United we could be in serious danger of relegation. 

I'd have Jose back in a heartbeat and said so before Potter was sacked. 

Mate. Last summer (2022) I was saying that Tuchel was in his way to be fired. The signs were all over the place, absolutely obvious where that was going. 

Our last 10 league games in 2022 was 4W 3D 3L. We lost at home to Brentford 1-4, at home to Arsenal 2-4 and away to Everton 1-0. We were shot for a good 2 months before the summer finally came. The signs were bad, from how badly we played to the players body language to how he handled the Lukaku situation. Just poor!

 He then started by 3W 1D 2L in his first 6 league games the following season, also losing badly away to Zagreb in the CL. He had lost it but somehow Potter managed to do worse. Doesn’t mean Tuchel was the answer, he clearly was already a dead man walking summer of 2022. And this is not something I say I’m hindsight, I was very vocal about this and got absolutely slaughtered for calling it so early.

[Sleeping Dave]

11 hours ago, martin1905 said:

You are of course correct, looking at our fixtures coming up we are, based on current form and without a monumental turnaround likely to find ourselves very close to the bottom three by mid December.

Our first 8 games were always going to be about getting a settled 11 into a system to try and gain some momentum and confidence to be ready for the Arsenal game. The only injuries that really effect our best 11 are James and Nkunku and as important as they are I don't think it's a reason to see what we are seeing, especially as Gusto is a more than adequate back up for James so it's only really Nkunku that we are seriously missing.

Chilwell showed in half an hour yesterday why he absolutely has to play at left back. Colwill played one hell of a ball to him when he was bursting forward, which lead to his chance. It's literally the first time we have seen it this season. Colwill's passing is a weapon from centre half so not only have we missed having a proper left back making forward, overlapping runs we've negated one of the best passers of the ball from centre back that I have seen.

And Enzo at 10 is arguably a more stupid decision. Not only are we missing him playing deeper, where he is absolutely phenomenal, he is truly woeful as a 10. Can't get anywhere near Jackson and leaves him completely isolated both in terms of helping the press and getting close enough to him to help with the link up play. We have seen how good Jackson is when he has players in and around him but he has been left hung out to dry.

Gallagher should be commended on his work rate, his professionalism, his hunger, his desire but he is certainly no Enzo playing where he is. It would be brutal to drop him but it must happen for the good of the team. The least we could have done was switch him and Enzo, at least give it a go.

It will be interesting to see how stubborn Pochettino is. It's not impossible to turn this around but he has to be big enough to realise he's made many mistakes so far and if he doesn't change he will be gone. The 7 games we have coming up, after Burnley will make or break him. If we don't see a massive change there will be only one outcome.

Tuchel was a short term solution that played out incredibly well. The problem with short term solutions are that they often turn out to work… SHORT-TERM. 

What we as a club need right now is stability. As long as we aren’t going down Poch needs to stay imo. 

[Sleeping Dave]

10 hours ago, martin1905 said:

Different players to be fair.

Yes. Just worse though to be fair. Not an unimportant addition I might add… (for now)

[Max Fowler]

In hindsight, who do we believe?

 

[Max Fowler]

 

I could imagine the players falling out of love with Poch's methods if things don't turn around

[Dwmh]

42 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

In hindsight, who do we believe?

??   Do you believe any of the media that writes about Chelsea?

Remember you are not supposed to find someone to simply believe, you are supposed to look at reality and work out what makes sense and what doesn't.  Only then can you permit yourself to listen to other people's opinons.
Adult or sheep?

[Max Fowler]

My current analysis is as follows: 

@martin1905 is wrong to put the blame so largely on Poch but he has a point nonetheless. Poch has been extremely poor so far - this cannot continue for much longer and right now he is drifting towards the sack. Playing players out of position, no ability to change games with substitutions, and just overall terrible performances in a favourable run of fixtures. Now he is saying strange things in the media (excuses, asking owners to trust the project, claiming xG victories like Potter did last season). His tone has changed, his tactics have changed, he is a different man altogether from pre-season - hampered in part by injuries and our dreadful recruitment. But it is no excuse - he has been piss poor and we shouldn't be afraid to pull the plug if results continue along this track.

At the same time, our squad is nowhere near capable of Champions League football. The biggest failures at this club have been the owners and directors, woefully under-equipping Poch and throwing him under the bus like they did Potter. We need experienced players fast but we won't get them - the languishing around the bottom half of the table will continue unless we get at least a few experienced players in as soon as possible.

[kev61]

8 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Haha, I am getting dejavu.

 

 

Oh dear,just when you thought things couldn't get any worse.

"abandon hope all ye who enter here".I salute fans who pay their hard earned cash to follow this lot in person.

[kev61]

6 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Tuchel was a short term solution that played out incredibly well. The problem with short term solutions are that they often turn out to work… SHORT-TERM. 

What we as a club need right now is stability. As long as we aren’t going down Poch needs to stay imo. 

Tuchel, imo,was the best manager we ever had.We went from being one of the best teams in the world playing delightful football to a team declining.

We had a bunch of players that needed a clearout like Ziyech who had a hang dog look on his face as if to say why am not playing every week.

You could see the frustration with the players in Tuchel's behaviour  on the sideline.

I would rather have backed him to get rid of the deadwood  and overhaul the team instead of a PE teacher.

Easy in retrospect I know,but that was our biggest downfall.

[kev61]

10 hours ago, east lower said:

 

This team needs to start winning football matches and soon.

 

Far too simple.The analytical data shows we are going in the right direction!

[Michael Tucker]

30 minutes ago, kev61 said:

Tuchel, imo,was the best manager we ever had.

Jose says 'Hi'......🤣

 

 

[kev61]

29 minutes ago, Michael Tucker said:

Jose says 'Hi'......🤣

 

 

People need to get real.Jose took over a team that was already the best team we ever had up to that point.His influence on a team has gone except for italy.

Droy travels to Rome to see him smile in the dugout?.I would seek an injunction on him if I were Mourhino.

[ROTG]

2 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

The biggest failures at this club have been the owners and directors,

The only fault of Eggy's & Todd was to employ the likes of Stewart, Winstanley & Shield

If you closely analyze Stewart, Winstanley & Shields recruitment it one of pure laziness in either poaching from their previous employers or buying targets identified by their previous employers. There only one player  "Enzo" recruited in the past two windows had zero links with their previous employers and was more than likely an Eggy's & Todd's marquee signing.

One can only assume Vievil saw the recruitment path taken by Stewart, Winstanley & Shields and was stabbed in the back by the gang of three

Maybe it time to open a thread on Stewart, Winstanley & Shield to debate if they are Visionaries or Buffoons

[kev61]

3 hours ago, Dwmh said:

??   Do you believe any of the media that writes about Chelsea?

Remember you are not supposed to find someone to simply believe, you are supposed to look at reality and work out what makes sense and what doesn't.  Only then can you permit yourself to listen to other people's opinons.
Adult or sheep?

Do you do that?.I would certainly say you'r not a sheep  - but you are off the wall.

[east lower]

2 hours ago, kev61 said:

Far too simple.The analytical data shows we are going in the right direction!

There’s another stat to show just how we’re performing in new ownership and their choice of coach/manager. 
 

0.8 points per game over the last 35 league games. Sobering thought to consider, it gets teams relegated. The people involved in the ownership and those that they have brought in, in permanent positions should hang their heads in shame. What they SHOULD DO is resign and the owners should consider giving the stewardship of our club to people who actually do have a clue in how to re-build the club from the absolute s**tshow position they have somehow contrived to get us to. 

How supposedly super intelligent people can get so much, so wrong in such a short amount of time truly beggars belief.

I’ve been really quite negative over the last few days about where we are because I don’t see a way through it without major change, but they won’t quell my desire to support my team - as they say it’s the hope that kills you.

😉

[martin1905]

5 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

My current analysis is as follows: 

@martin1905 is wrong to put the blame so largely on Poch but he has a point nonetheless. Poch has been extremely poor so far - this cannot continue for much longer and right now he is drifting towards the sack. Playing players out of position, no ability to change games with substitutions, and just overall terrible performances in a favourable run of fixtures. Now he is saying strange things in the media (excuses, asking owners to trust the project, claiming xG victories like Potter did last season). His tone has changed, his tactics have changed, he is a different man altogether from pre-season - hampered in part by injuries and our dreadful recruitment. But it is no excuse - he has been piss poor and we shouldn't be afraid to pull the plug if results continue along this track.

At the same time, our squad is nowhere near capable of Champions League football. The biggest failures at this club have been the owners and directors, woefully under-equipping Poch and throwing him under the bus like they did Potter. We need experienced players fast but we won't get them - the languishing around the bottom half of the table will continue unless we get at least a few experienced players in as soon as possible.

You misunderstand me Max. 

I blame Pochettino for the results and performances, nothing else.

Regardless of what people think of our recruiting we have been well below what any of us expected.

The fact that only one person on here, that voted, expected us to finish outside the top 6 tells you everything.

34 people voted. 

33 of them thought we would be top 6. Minimum.

That tells me that the vast majority of people were happy with our summer transfer dealings and expected us to have a reasonably good season. Now it's all the boards fault? Comical 

The owners/board have got an awful lot wrong, so much that I worry about the future of our club but when it comes to what happens on the football pitch. That is on Pochettino.

The players we have shouldn't be struggling against West Ham, Villa, Bournemouth and Forest. Just shouldn't be happening.  That is solely on Pochettino and the decisions he has been making.

Edited September 26, 2023 by martin1905

[martin1905]

I would love @My Blood Is Blue to run another poll, an updated 23/23 season expectations from  now.

Would be interesting to see how much our expectations have changed after 33/34 people thought we would be top 6, minimum.

What I struggle with is how it's the boards fault when so many people thought they had built a squad to finish in the top 6. Quite clearly nearly everybody thought they had given the manager the correct tools to do his job.

 

[martin1905]

22 minutes ago, east lower said:

There’s another stat to show just how we’re performing in new ownership and their choice of coach/manager. 
 

0.8 points per game over the last 35 league games. Sobering thought to consider, it gets teams relegated. The people involved in the ownership and those that they have brought in, in permanent positions should hang their heads in shame. What they SHOULD DO is resign and the owners should consider giving the stewardship of our club to people who actually do have a clue in how to re-build the club from the absolute s**tshow position they have somehow contrived to get us to. 

How supposedly super intelligent people can get so much, so wrong in such a short amount of time truly beggars belief.

I’ve been really quite negative over the last few days about where we are because I don’t see a way through it without major change, but they won’t quell my desire to support my team - as they say it’s the hope that kills you.

😉

As a long standing season ticket holder and the fact that you appear pretty level headed, you don't get over excited yet never seem to get too pissed off either I respect your views and would appreciate your opinion on Pochettino and what you would like to see happen in the short term.

[Siidi]

13 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Haha, I am getting dejavu.

 

 

If it's true that the owners' decisions are guided by data, we're really in deep trouble.  It strikes me as a kind of denialism; "surely Mauricio Pochettino couldn't be that bad. We must be looking at it wrongly, and there it is, the data that proves my point". 

Rather than admit that you're on the wrong road,  find an app that tells you it's all fine, keep driving.  The thing is, half of the few chances we've created so far have been by accident rather than from a move than we can replicate. 

[Thiago97]

1 minute ago, martin1905 said:

As a long standing season ticket holder and the fact that you appear pretty level headed, you don't get over excited yet never seem to get too pissed off either I respect your views and would appreciate your opinion on Pochettino and what you would like to see happen in the short term.

Mr Turkey as a long standing and respected member of the bird community, I would like your opinion on that blight of a festive season that is Xmas !

[MickyDroy]

Feels like there's some kind of defining moment coming up inside the next two months or so. It's already toxic, fans are seriously worried about getting relegated and the entire club seem to be in a state of pure chaos.
For me there will either be a miraculous turnaround on the pitch or we continue to lose which ultimately leads to mass protests against the ownership, they then sack Poch to try and protect their back but in the end it doesn't work and we end up relegated.

[east lower]

37 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

As a long standing season ticket holder and the fact that you appear pretty level headed, you don't get over excited yet never seem to get too pissed off either I respect your views and would appreciate your opinion on Pochettino and what you would like to see happen in the short term.

I get extremely cheesed off, Mrs EL still hasn't worked it out that it's best to disengage for a while after we get beat! Suffice to say we haven't spoken so much over the last year or so!

Back to your question though,  I think he should go and as quickly as possible. I was optimistic in pre-season as I thought I could see positive patterns, we passed the ball forwards quickly and got in through and behind teams.

He's regressed and I see nothing different than we saw in GP's latter few month's.  I wasn't over enamoured with his appointment,  but I put that down to my dislike of anyone associated with the North London peasants. I think I remember commenting on the forum that his record in the one-horse race that was League 1 in France was relatively poor, afterall he managed to come second on one occasion in that race. 

I think his skills lay with in making players with relatively low potential achieve more than they might, but high-potential and teams requiring high-achievement is where he falls short.

We're teetering at the edge of a cliff, in danger of falling off the edge - major change of direction needed. But supporting my team is my 'drug' and like a lot of addicts I'll not let anybody get in my way of getting my fix - so I've handed over more money for tomorrow evening's exhibition by Brighton (who I genuinely admired at our place last season) and will be at Fulham and Burnley.

Get back on the horse yourself, it's going to be a wild ride.

👍

Edited September 26, 2023 by east lower