Mauricio Pochettino leaves Chelsea by mutual consent

[martin1905]

25 minutes ago, east lower said:

I get extremely cheesed off, Mrs EL still hasn't worked it out that it's best to disengage for a while after we get beat! Suffice to say we haven't spoken so much over the last year or so!

Back to your question though,  I think he should go and as quickly as possible. I was optimistic in pre-season as I thought I could see positive patterns, we passed the ball forwards quickly and got in through and behind teams.

He's regressed and I see nothing different than we saw in GP's latter few month's.  I wasn't over enamoured with his appointment,  but I put that down to my dislike of anyone associated with the North London peasants. I think I remember commenting on the forum that his record in the one-horse race that was League 1 in France was relatively poor, afterall he managed to come second on one occasion in that race. 

I think his skills lay with in making players with relatively low potential achieve more than they might, but high-potential and teams requiring high-achievement is where he falls short.

We're teetering at the edge of a cliff, in danger of falling off the edge - major change of direction needed. But supporting my team is my 'drug' and like a lot of addicts I'll not let anybody get in my way of getting my fix - so I've handed over more money for tomorrow evening's exhibition by Brighton (who I genuinely admired at our place last season) and will be at Fulham and Burnley.

Get back on the horse yourself, it's going to be a wild ride.

👍

Thanks mate, put it a lot better than I have been trying to, I get too emotional and too caught up in the bickering at times.

It's interesting that almost everyone I know that attends games feels the same, not that their opinion matters more, it just is what it is. 

I've a lot going on in my life at the moment and have just really struggled with going to games the last 18 months or so. I feel like these owners, more importantly the British Government, ripped a big part of my life away from me and the time was right to have a short break.

I only sold my season ticket, to a mate, for the season and will still go to the cup games, probably won't be many, so I am going tomorrow. Looking forward to seeing Brighton to be fair, they are a joy to watch.

 

[Thiago97]

4 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Thanks mate, put it a lot better than I have been trying to, I get too emotional and too caught up in the bickering at times.

It's interesting that almost everyone I know that attends games feels the same, not that their opinion matters more, it just is what it is. 

I've a lot going on in my life at the moment and have just really struggled with going to games the last 18 months or so. I feel like these owners, more importantly the British Government, ripped a big part of my life away from me and the time was right to have a short break.

I only sold my season ticket, to a mate, for the season and will still go to the cup games, probably won't be many, so I am going tomorrow. Looking forward to seeing Brighton to be fair, they are a joy to watch.

 

 

I don’t think this is true. Fully respect EL comments and view, but you asked him knowing the answer you were going to get.

If you were interested in a balanced view of ST holders, well you could have asked others, as ST holders view seem to hold more weight to you.

You could have opened it up to @paulw66or @thevelourfog for their view. But you framed the question to EL who to paraphrase, signed off a post recently about seeing good and bad managers, and this one is a bad one!

Apologies to EL if I have that quote wrong, it was something along those lines. 

[Sleeping Dave]

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

You misunderstand me Max. 

I blame Pochettino for the results and performances, nothing else.

Regardless of what people think of our recruiting we have been well below what any of us expected.

The fact that only one person on here, that voted, expected us to finish outside the top 6 tells you everything.

34 people voted. 

33 of them thought we would be top 6. Minimum.

That tells me that the vast majority of people were happy with our summer transfer dealings and expected us to have a reasonably good season. Now it's all the boards fault? Comical 

The owners/board have got an awful lot wrong, so much that I worry about the future of our club but when it comes to what happens on the football pitch. That is on Pochettino.

The players we have shouldn't be struggling against West Ham, Villa, Bournemouth and Forest. Just shouldn't be happening.  That is solely on Pochettino and the decisions he has been making.

I can only speak for myself but I obviously thought that;

1. Nkunku wouldn't be out injured for so long

2. That we would strengthen with one more striker (instead we signed another bloke who's still wet behind the ears - Palmer)

[east lower]

7 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

I don’t think this is true. Fully respect EL comments and view, but you asked him knowing the answer you were going to get.

If you were interested in a balanced view of ST holders, well you could have asked others, as ST holders view seem to hold more weight to you.

You could have opened it up to @paulw66or @thevelourfog for their view. But you framed the question to EL who to paraphrase, signed off a post recently about seeing good and bad managers, and this one is a bad one!

Apologies to EL if I have that quote wrong, it was something along those lines. 

What you say is entirely possible as regards a loaded question, but there’s a growing feeling I get from the away and home fans that they’d happily see major change as that is what’s required to deal with where we are.

A successful side is what we all want and if MP is the man for that job, then great - my rabid dislike for all things L’pool and Rottenham will still stand and I’ll struggle to warm to him. Buuuuuuut he ain’t showing any signs of being the man, Di Zerbi and Postecoglu (even spelling managers names these days is an art form) took less than a dozen games to get positive outcomes in terms of performance and actual results. Our bloke is already getting the book of well worn excuses out.

[martin1905]

23 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

I don’t think this is true. Fully respect EL comments and view, but you asked him knowing the answer you were going to get.

If you were interested in a balanced view of ST holders, well you could have asked others, as ST holders view seem to hold more weight to you.

You could have opened it up to @paulw66or @thevelourfog for their view. But you framed the question to EL who to paraphrase, signed off a post recently about seeing good and bad managers, and this one is a bad one!

Apologies to EL if I have that quote wrong, it was something along those lines. 

So I'm now not allowed to ask someone a question?

I asked him a  as he was active on here this morning at the same time I was posting, but you carry on, questioning people's views that don't line up with yours, ripping them apart and just constantly arguing. 

As for a balanced view, I know literally hundreds of ST holders, they nearly all want Pochettino gone. Getting 2 more views on here isn't going to make it more balanced.

Have a good day 👍🏻

Edited September 26, 2023 by martin1905

[Thiago97]

8 minutes ago, east lower said:

What you say is entirely possible as regards a loaded question, but there’s a growing feeling I get from the away and home fans that they’d happily see major change as that is what’s required to deal with where we are.

A successful side is what we all want and if MP is the man for that job, then great - my rabid dislike for all things L’pool and Rottenham will still stand and I’ll struggle to warm to him. Buuuuuuut he ain’t showing any signs of being the man, Di Zerbi and Postecoglu (even spelling managers names these days is an art form) took less than a dozen games to get positive outcomes in terms of performance and actual results. Our bloke is already getting the book of well worn excuses out.

I get what you say and I probably don’t know as many season ticket holders as you. The ones I do know do not share this view right now ( albeit only 3 people), they all believe as it stands we need more time and stability.

So based on what I know, it is the opposite to what you describe. Maybe the rub of it lies somewhere in the middle . 

[Ham]

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

I would love @My Blood Is Blue to run another poll, an updated 23/23 season expectations from  now.

Would be interesting to see how much our expectations have changed after 33/34 people thought we would be top 6, minimum.

What I struggle with is how it's the boards fault when so many people thought they had built a squad to finish in the top 6. Quite clearly nearly everybody thought they had given the manager the correct tools to do his job.

 

Still staggering that the players are escaping blame virtually everywhere on these boards.

It's the board or the manager. End of.

Look back at the games we've played and ask yourself again, who's to blame once the game starts? 

Poor decision after poor decision once we cross the halfway line. 

 

[Max Fowler]

 

 

[martin1905]

4 minutes ago, Ham said:

Still staggering that the players are escaping blame virtually everywhere on these boards.

It's the board or the manager. End of.

Look back at the games we've played and ask yourself again, who's to blame once the game starts? 

Poor decision after poor decision once we cross the halfway line. 

 

Does that not equate to the manager though Ham?

He drills the team, he motivates the team, he picks the team, the tactics, makes the changes during a game.

If one or two players aren't playing well then I would put the blame on them, when the entire team is useless, in everything, including as you say decision making then that, to me lies at the managers feet. Much like last season under Potter.

You, and I agree with you, were very happy with our transfer window and thought we'd assembled a very exciting squad. I have little doubt that you were one of the ones that had us finishing 6th or above, can't imagine you were the one that didn't. If you believe we have the right players, the right players to be in the top 6 and we see what we are currently seeing, does the buck not stop with the manager?

[martin1905]

Tomorrow's line up will be interesting, i think he will make multiple changes.

I think, considering where we are and when we play Fulham, we should be close to full strength.

If he does make lots of changes, @Mark Kelly may well be right about him being a coward.

We shall see........

[paulw66]

47 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

 

 

As for a balanced view, I know literally hundreds of ST holders, they nearly all want Pochettino gone.

Which is ludicrous.

 

[martin1905]

4 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Which is ludicrous.

 

Which it may be but I don't know many people that wanted him in the first place so this was always going to happen, if he didn't start well.

Let's see where we are after United and what the general feeling is towards him then. 

It's impossible to predict how well we will do but we can make an educated guess that after game 15 we will be in a pretty poor position. Hypothetical, of course it is, but I suspect those that say 6 games isn't enough will all want him gone. The difference isn't that great, certainly not enough to turn

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by martin1905

[ROTG]

11 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Which is ludicrous.

 

Yes - Winstanley, Stewart and shield are ultimately the  buffoons who have provided a two bob squad which even Pep would struggle to get a tune out of.

For all his short comings I do not blame Poch for the unbalanced squad he's be given by those buffoons. 

[east lower]

46 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Tomorrow's line up will be interesting, i think he will make multiple changes.

I think, considering where we are and when we play Fulham, we should be close to full strength.

If he does make lots of changes, @Mark Kelly may well be right about him being a coward.

We shall see........

I think that was me calling him that and @Mark Kelly agreed, so if anyone has any issue with that it's best addressed at me.

I think that the coach will be forced into a line-up change and personally wouldn't hold that against him - It's how we play and how we attack the game that in my mind has made him a coward in my eyes, hopefully we don't approach this game in a passive way. I'd welcome seeing Davide Washington having a run out, it's a cup game against an in-form team -  have a damn go.

[Ham]

59 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

 

If one or two players aren't playing well then I would put the blame on them, when the entire team is useless, in everything, including as you say decision making 

 

This bit is untrue but keeps getting repeated.  The entire team is not playing badly.  Despite conceding 3 against West Ham, we're still among the very best defences in the PL.

Defenders and CMs must be pulling their hair out watching the pricks up front squander chance after chance, break after break, free kick after free kick.  

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Ham

[east lower]

11 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Yes - Winstanley, Stewart and shield are ultimately the  buffoons who have provided a two bob squad which even Pep would struggle to get a tune out of.

Which is an interesting theory - Just what would happen if we were to swap managers with Man City for a year, how would the respective fortunes fare??

[thevelourfog]

1 hour ago, Ham said:

Still staggering that the players are escaping blame virtually everywhere on these boards.

It's the board or the manager. End of.

A huge oversimplification, if not just misrepresentation of the comments I've seen here focusing on the owners more than anyone else.

For me it is that the players and the manager are here because of these owners. I think plenty of these players aren't good enough and do not seem to be taking much individual responsibility for their performances. I think the manager is, in general, a good one but some of the decisions have been bizarre and the results are dreadful. But here is the irrefutable rub. If and when we get rid of them, it will be the people who a) created the need for them to be recruited in the first place and b) judged them good enough to recruited, at a vast expense we are long saddled with, who will choose their replacements. Why would anyone have any confidence in them? Why swap out useless player A for useless player B and idiotic coach 1 for idiotic coach 2?

And more than that ... Given players and coaches who haven't ordinarily or previously been useless/idiotic seem to instantly become that when in the organisation these owners created, when do question whether or not there might just be something about these owners that contributes to that uselessness and idiocy?

I don't really want Pochettino out with any desperation, but that's maybe 20% thinking it's premature and 80% having absolutely no faith it gets better without him.

It is not about blame and where supporters apportion it. It is about lines of accountability in a hierarchical organisation. 

[Ham]

15 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

A huge oversimplification, if not just misrepresentation of the comments I've seen here focusing on the owners more than anyone else.

For me it is that the players and the manager are here because of these owners. I think plenty of these players aren't good enough and do not seem to be taking much individual responsibility for their performances. I think the manager is, in general, a good one but some of the decisions have been bizarre and the results are dreadful. But here is the irrefutable rub. If and when we get rid of them, it will be the people who a) created the need for them to be recruited in the first place and b) judged them good enough to recruited, at a vast expense we are long saddled with, who will choose their replacements. Why would anyone have any confidence in them? Why swap out useless player A for useless player B and idiotic coach 1 for idiotic coach 2?

And more than that ... Given players and coaches who haven't ordinarily or previously been useless/idiotic seem to instantly become that when in the organisation these owners created, when do question whether or not there might just be something about these owners that contributes to that uselessness and idiocy?

I don't really want Pochettino out with any desperation, but that's maybe 20% thinking it's premature and 80% having absolutely no faith it gets better without him.

It is not about blame and where supporters apportion it. It is about lines of accountability in a hierarchical organisation. 

Glad you mentioned oversimplification because it all boils down to players knowing what to do with a ball. All the talk of owners and coaching is taking attention away from individual failings by players.

You mention recruitment of youngsters as a key factor but Sterling is the worst offender where idiotic final balls are concerned and he's not a kid.  See his decision not to square the ball at the weekend. 

Same with 27 year old Chilwell passing to nobody when the goal was open.  

Aside from the abysmal shooting from the attackers (almost always over the bar) there's the one on one/two on one breaks where we invariably stuff it up against the odds. 

Jackson putting the ball over the bar from a yard out has nothing to do with Poch or TBSD. 

It's inexplicable and the fault of one person. The player.

Poch, TBSD, the defence and CMs must be collectively furious at the shit situation the attackers have left us in. 

Yes, Poch should be playing Chilwell as a LB, Colwill as a LCB and Enzo deeper but the main failings once the game starts are with the attackers. 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Ham

[thevelourfog]

Just now, Ham said:

Glad you mentioned oversimplification because of all boils down to players knowing what to do with a ball. All the talk of owners and coaching is taking attention away from individual failings by players.

You mention recruitment of youngsters as a key factor but Sterling is the worst offender where idiotic final balls are concerned and he's not a kid.  See his decision not to square the ball at the weekend. 

Same with 27 year old Chilwell passing to nobody when the goal was open.  

No, I didn't. I said "plenty of these players aren't good enough".

You don't engage at all with the point that these players who with individual failings have all either been recruited by this lot, or been given huge contracts by them! 

I don't think pointing out these owners are dangerous idiots detracts at all from criticism of our players. My whole point is that they are all part of the same issue.

[paulw66]

I am not really a fan of the blame game. The owners have bought the players, but they don't cross the white line, and they don't pick the team. 

Whatever one thinks of the players not being good enough, they should be capable of scoring the odd goal against Forest, Villa and Bournemouth. The manager and the board, can't make the players kick it in the goal.

We have to accept we have essentially bought an entire new squad in 18 months, largely with young players who have been bought with a longer term strategy in mind. There are going to be bumps in the road, and it is case of how many there are and how quickly it can get smoother. sacking the coach, when he has not anything close to his best squad available it is just foolish.

 

[McCreadie]

Those wanting Poch out at this time deserve everything they get. Who on earth would replace him that is actually better? Don’t say de Zerbi, that is not happening. The answer is no-one better would come now. And whoever it is, you would be baying for his blood after he doesn’t turn it around in 6 games anyway. Laughable.

[Max Fowler]

There is a reality to the fixtures and results - we've had the easiest run-in so far and the next three games, if not officially earmarked by the board, will be a litmus test of where things are headed.

We could get knocked out of the cup by the Brighton who have pulled our owners' pants down these last two years, only deepening their humiliation.

It's difficult to see us getting a result against a Fulham side on decent form who, unlike us, have had a tough run of fixtures to start the season. We haven't beaten a Premier League team in the top half of the table in twenty-three outings - they sit joint tenth.

But Burnley is the real kicker. Even the most pessimistic Chelsea fan must think we will beat Burnley - fail to do so and Poch is a dead man walking - off the back of two fixtures we are unlikely to win and with our oh so difficult run to come.

Brighton - Fulham - Burnley.

Even if it's unfair on Poch, these three games will be absolutely critical in deciding his immediate future.

[My Blood Is Blue]

3 hours ago, martin1905 said:

I would love @My Blood Is Blue to run another poll, an updated 23/23 season expectations from  now.

Would be interesting to see how much our expectations have changed after 33/34 people thought we would be top 6, minimum.

What I struggle with is how it's the boards fault when so many people thought they had built a squad to finish in the top 6. Quite clearly nearly everybody thought they had given the manager the correct tools to do his job.

 

I'll meet you in the middle and put one up at the next international break, it'll give us all something to do and we'll be closer to a quarter way through the season and may even have a new manager coming in by then!

[Original 21]

I can’t see anything turning around until Nkunku gets back to full fitness and we sign a decent striker. This isn’t going to happen until January/February by which time we’ll likely be in a relegation scrap if our form continues at this alarming level. I really don’t know if it’s going to be enough as confidence will have drained from the squad and they’re not likely temperamentally up for a fight.

I don’t think I’m being unduly pessimistic, but I’ve seen enough to think that relegation is more likely than us finishing in the top ten. We can’t score goals and that means we’ll go on losing matches despite playing okay and creating chances. It only takes one mistake or counter attack to lose a game as has been proven so far. 

[martin1905]

1 hour ago, Ham said:

This bit is untrue but keeps getting repeated.  The entire team is not playing badly.  Despite conceding 3 against West Ham, we're still among the very best defences in the PL.

Defenders and CMs must be pulling their hair out watching the pricks up front squander chance after chance, break after break, free kick after free kick.  

 

In my opinion, the entire team has been rubbish.

We've been ok defensively, on paper but our fixtures have been  very kind.

As a team, a unit, a collective, it's not been anywhere near good enough and the results sort of speak for themselves. One point against West Ham, Villa, Bournemouth and Forest. One goal scored. 

I don't think we play good football. I don't think we create that many clear cut chances, despite what the XG says, I don't think we get enough bodies in the box, I don't think we have enough forward runners, from anywhere, I don't think we open teams up with quick intricate passing, I don't think we use the width very well or get enough balls into the box. I don't think we press very well, I don't think we play at a high enough tempo.

I think we play a very boring, slow,  negative, possession based style of football with nothing in the final third.

It could be that we bought a load of rubbish that no manager can do any better with but I look at Newcastle, Villa, Tottenham and Brighton. I look at how quickly their managers made an impact and I'm not talking about results, I'm talking and performances. I look at their squads and fail to see they are any better than ours.

I then look at how we were under Potter and see far too many similarities, with a completely different group of players. My conclusion is that the manger, like Potter, is out of his depth.

I may be wrong, I accept that and will have no problem admitting it. My worry is if this doesn't stop soon, and with our run of fixtures coming up I don't see how it can, we will struggle to stay up. The most obvious, immediate thing we could do is change managers, literally can't do anything else. Or we could sit back, wait until it's too late and hope by some miracle we don't get relegated.

I know what I'd rather do.

Everyone was getting irate at me last year about Potter yet you won't find one person that thinks we didn't make the right call in sacking him. After 22 league games. So those, not you, screaming that it's too early, must by the same token think we should have kept Potter. You can't have it both ways. 22 games is nowhere near enough but everyone wanted him gone.