Mauricio Pochettino leaves Chelsea by mutual consent

[Max Fowler]

10 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Everyone was getting irate at me last year about Potter yet you won't find one person that thinks we didn't make the right call in sacking him. After 22 league games. So those, not you, screaming that it's too early, must by the same token think we should have kept Potter. You can't have it both ways. 22 games is nowhere near enough but everyone wanted him gone.

We're seeing exactly the same narratives as last season, Martin. 

Have our fanbase suffered collective memory loss?

"You've got to give him time!", "There's no way the owners will sack him!" etc. etc. etc...

The results are so bad that if they continue on this trajectory he will be gone before Christmas. No doubts. 

(And don't forget the draw against Liverpool. In isolation, dropping points against Liverpool and Villa can happen, but it compounds when you add on Forest, Bournemouth, and West Ham).

Fans who are saying fixtures don't matter and any team is beatable - well we still didn't beat Liverpool despite the better chances.

[Thiago97]

50 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

I am not really a fan of the blame game. The owners have bought the players, but they don't cross the white line, and they don't pick the team. 

Whatever one thinks of the players not being good enough, they should be capable of scoring the odd goal against Forest, Villa and Bournemouth. The manager and the board, can't make the players kick it in the goal.

We have to accept we have essentially bought an entire new squad in 18 months, largely with young players who have been bought with a longer term strategy in mind. There are going to be bumps in the road, and it is case of how many there are and how quickly it can get smoother. sacking the coach, when he has not anything close to his best squad available it is just foolish.

 

Common sense prevailing here. When you have the best part of 10-12 options not available to you, regardless of how many of them may/may not start, we as a squad are clearly are not in our optimum position. So any conclusive decisions made is just bizarrely premature.

44 minutes ago, McCreadie said:

Those wanting Poch out at this time deserve everything they get. Who on earth would replace him that is actually better? Don’t say de Zerbi, that is not happening. The answer is no-one better would come now. And whoever it is, you would be baying for his blood after he doesn’t turn it around in 6 games anyway. Laughable.

I believe it would be very difficult to get anyone credible as a replacement now. Imagine going and speaking to any credible manager about coming in as the new manager, after sacking our last one after 6-10 games. 

It replicates some of these crazy Serie A ownerships like Cagliari , Genoa , Palermo , where over the years they can go through 5 managers in one season.

21 minutes ago, Original 21 said:

I can’t see anything turning around until Nkunku gets back to full fitness and we sign a decent striker. This isn’t going to happen until January/February by which time we’ll likely be in a relegation scrap if our form continues at this alarming level. I really don’t know if it’s going to be enough as confidence will have drained from the squad and they’re not likely temperamentally up for a fight.

I don’t think I’m being unduly pessimistic, but I’ve seen enough to think that relegation is more likely than us finishing in the top ten. We can’t score goals and that means we’ll go on losing matches despite playing okay and creating chances. It only takes one mistake or counter attack to lose a game as has been proven so far. 

I also think it only take one positive result or even slice of luck for the situation to turn in our favour. I do genuinely believe we are one good result away from an upturn. Now I am not saying an upturn in terms of pushing for top5, but an upturn that brings about a change in confidence and positivity amongst our players. It may be a deflected strike that goes in, or maybe a lucky OG like Brighton had on Sunday. A small change in fortune that can lead to or instigate a positive result is something we can, and I fully expect we will build off.

3 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

In my opinion, the entire team has been rubbish.

We've been ok defensively, on paper but our fixtures have been  very kind.

As a team, a unit, a collective, it's not been anywhere near good enough and the results sort of speak for themselves. One point against West Ham, Villa, Bournemouth and Forest. One goal scored. 

I don't think we play good football. I don't think we create that many clear cut chances, despite what the XG says, I don't think we get enough bodies in the box, I don't think we have enough forward runners, from anywhere, I don't think we open teams up with quick intricate passing, I don't think we use the width very well or get enough balls into the box. I don't think we press very well, I don't think we play at a high enough tempo.

I think we play a very boring, slow,  negative, possession based style of football with nothing in the final third.

It could be that we bought a load of rubbish that no manager can do any better with but I look at Newcastle, Villa, Tottenham and Brighton. I look at how quickly their managers made an impact and I'm not talking about results, I'm talking and performances. I look at their squads and fail to see they are any better than ours.

I then look at how we were under Potter and see far too many similarities, with a completely different group of players. My conclusion is that the manger, like Potter, is out of his depth.

I may be wrong, I accept that and will have no problem admitting it. My worry is if this doesn't stop soon, and with our run of fixtures coming up I don't see how it can, we will struggle to stay up. The most obvious, immediate thing we could do is change managers, literally can't do anything else. Or we could sit back, wait until it's too late and hope by some miracle we don't get relegated.

I know what I'd rather do.

Everyone was getting irate at me last year about Potter yet you won't find one person that thinks we didn't make the right call in sacking him. After 22 league games. So those, not you, screaming that it's too early, must by the same token think we should have kept Potter. You can't have it both ways. 22 games is nowhere near enough but everyone wanted him gone.

We did make the right call in sacking him. I can remember the turning point games for me with both Lampard and Potter. Lampard was Wolves away when we were leading and lost, that was the moment I lost faith and decided we needed to change. Potter was after Forest away last season, that was when I went from being supportive of time and stability, to deciding we needed change.

On Potter specifically, 22 games was most definitely enough because the situation was getting worse and not better. Let's not forget, we also had a months break in this for the World Cup. Whilst we had players playing in the WC and not at Cobham , I believe we should have still come back from that break and looked a better team. We looked even worse than before.

We do not look worse now. You asked people to describe how we are better and that you kept getting ignored. I responded explaining why I believed we are better, you didn't respond/question any of it.

Sunday was a clear improvement from the last two games. Liverpool / West Ham was clear progress on last season, I would say we had more positives in these two games we didnt win, than we showed in beating Luton.

So no the correlation about supporting Poch therefore we must still support Potter does not stand up. 6 games with some positives and with a much less experienced squad, is very different to 22 games of decline with more experienced high level players at your disposal.

[Thiago97]

17 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

We're seeing exactly the same narratives as last season, Martin. 

Have our fanbase suffered collective memory loss?

"You've got to give him time!", "There's no way the owners will sack him!" etc. etc. etc...

The results are so bad that if they continue on this trajectory he will be gone before Christmas. No doubts. 

(And don't forget the draw against Liverpool. In isolation, dropping points against Liverpool and Villa can happen, but it compounds when you add on Forest, Bournemouth, and West Ham).

Fans who are saying fixtures don't matter and any team is beatable - well we still didn't beat Liverpool despite the better chances.

Of course it is, because it is 6 games in! One way or another, we all want some level of stability at the club. It's fairly obvious that many people will provide the same narrative after 6 games. 

Just like if we lose our next 5 in a row, that narrative will start to turn and more people may change their view.

Results are one thing and performances are another. Terrible results with terrible performances are going to be very difficult for any manager to survive them for probably more than 10 games. If we reach that point, the situation will no doubt change. Then some of you can pat yourselves on the back at what brilliant judges you are. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Thiago97

[martin1905]

13 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

We did make the right call in sacking him. I can remember the turning point games for me with both Lampard and Potter. Lampard was Wolves away when we were leading and lost, that was the moment I lost faith and decided we needed to change. Potter was after Forest away last season, that was when I went from being supportive of time and stability, to deciding we needed change.

On Potter specifically, 22 games was most definitely enough because the situation was getting worse and not better. Let's not forget, we also had a months break in this for the World Cup. Whilst we had players playing in the WC and not at Cobham , I believe we should have still come back from that break and looked a better team. We looked even worse than before.

So no the correlation about supporting Poch therefore we must still support Potter does not stand up. 6 games with some positives and with a much less experienced squad, is very different to 22 games of decline with more experienced high level players at your disposal.

Right, so you get to chose as and when the manager has had enough time, brilliant.

If you think it's time you are right, everyone else is wrong yet you talk about people patting themselves on the back 🤣

[blueboy1905]

15 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

 He then started by 3W 1D 2L in his first 6 league games the following season, also losing badly away to Zagreb in the CL. He had lost it but somehow Potter managed to do worse. Doesn’t mean Tuchel was the answer, he clearly was already a dead man walking summer of 2022. And this is not something I say I’m hindsight, I was very vocal about this and got absolutely slaughtered for calling it so early.

 

Had we not been cheated by Dean & Taylor for the opening game v Tottenham Tuchel's record in the first 6 games would have read P6 W4 D1 L1. Certainly gives a different outlook.

[Thiago97]

6 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Right, so you get to chose as and when the manager has had enough time, brilliant.

If you think it's time you are right, everyone else is wrong yet you talk about people patting themselves on the back 🤣

Well of course I do, in my opinion. Just like you do in your opinion. Our opinions on this do not trigger an instant decision from the people that matter though.

I think you are wide of the mark, just like you think I am wide of the mark and talking a load of rubbish.

This is just a bizarre response!

 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Thiago97

[ROTG]

2 hours ago, east lower said:

Which is an interesting theory - Just what would happen if we were to swap managers with Man City for a year, how would the respective fortunes fare??

One thing is for sure there would be not be a new manager bounce as proved by The Nobody and Poch

Tin hat time 😀

[Max Fowler]

12 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

Of course it is, because it is 6 games in! One way or another, we all want some level of stability at the club. It's fairly obvious that many people will provide the same narrative after 6 games. 

Just like if we lose our next 5 in a row, that narrative will start to turn and more people may change their view.

Results are one thing and performances are another. Terrible results with terrible performances are going to be very difficult for any manager to survive them for probably more than 10 games. If we reach that point, the situation will no doubt change. Then some of you can pat yourselves on the back at what brilliant judges you are. 

But that's the point, people on here were still insistently claiming Potter was never going to get fired when the writing was on the wall for many of us for months. People were saying these new owners were different, it's too early to judge Potter - we need years rather than months to do so, there's no point complaining so just get behind the team.

Many of us now are on the cusp of saying that the writing is on the wall for Poch. Yet others appear to be putting their fingers in their ears and pretending reality isn't happening. Again - I still don't blame Poch for the majority of what is going on - but there is a certain reality to our results and if this continues - it won't really matter if it's 6, 16 or 60 games. 

Poch will be gone far closer to the former number than the latter.

[Max Fowler]

4 minutes ago, blueboy1905 said:

Had we not been cheated by Dean & Taylor for the opening game v Tottenham Tuchel's record in the first 6 games would have read P6 W4 D1 L1. Certainly gives a different outlook.

Yep, ignore the Tuchel was a "dead man walking" narrarative. We can hand pick some periods of Klopp's reign which were just as bad or worse results-wise, yet they continue to back their elite manager through transitions and look where they are now.

Even those who are not blindly supporting the board (like @Mark Kelly) regurgitate narratives about Tuchel's wife, him burning out, losing the dressing room, blah blah blah. We simply bottled backing the manager and rebuilding the club around him.

The board doesn't want a manager like Tuchel or Nagelsmann - they want a yes man who they can run over in the transfer market. "Poch wants an experienced striker? Don't worry - he's an affable guy - we can dodge that one and he'll get over it quickly!"

[Thiago97]

1 minute ago, Max Fowler said:

But that's the point, people on here were still insistently claiming Potter was never going to get fired when the writing was on the wall for many of us for months. People were saying these new owners were different, it's too early to judge Potter - we need years rather than months to do so, there's no point complaining so just get behind the team.

Many of us now are on the cusp of saying that the writing is on the wall for Poch. Yet others appear to be putting their fingers in their ears and pretending reality isn't happening. Again - I still don't blame Poch for the majority of what is going on - but there is a certain reality to our results and if this continues - it won't really matter if it's 6, 16 or 60 games. 

Poch will be gone far closer to the former number than the latter.

Some may have been saying he wont get fired, but that is also different to people wanting him fired.

I think the vast and overwhelming majority had swung in favour of him being sacked at the very end of his tenure. There may have been some lone voices who still wanted to give it time, and fair play to those lone voices, as they were coming at it from a long term project perspective.

Either way, we are still talking a difference of approx 15 games here. A lot can happen in 15 games.

[Sleeping Dave]

11 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

But that's the point, people on here were still insistently claiming Potter was never going to get fired when the writing was on the wall for many of us for months. People were saying these new owners were different, it's too early to judge Potter - we need years rather than months to do so, there's no point complaining so just get behind the team.

Many of us now are on the cusp of saying that the writing is on the wall for Poch. Yet others appear to be putting their fingers in their ears and pretending reality isn't happening. Again - I still don't blame Poch for the majority of what is going on - but there is a certain reality to our results and if this continues - it won't really matter if it's 6, 16 or 60 games. 

Poch will be gone far closer to the former number than the latter.

But you simply can’t sack a manager after 6 games. It’s not running a football responsibly. 

Especially under the circumstances - we have so many injuries and the manager has not gotten what he wanted - goals and experience. There is no manager out there that will make this side a top side under these circumstances. We have chances, even one v one with the keeper and still do not score. I mean what kind of blame can we lay with the manager for players missing such chances? None imo. That’s all on the players I’m afraid. 

There are decisions that Poch could have done better. But some people on here are letting his Spurs history blind them completely. 

[asvaberg]

Sorry if this already been covered, but Saltor has left:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12970015/chelsea-terminate-bruno-saltors-contract-less-than-four-months-into-mauricio-pochettino-era

Edited September 26, 2023 by asvaberg

[Thiago97]

1 minute ago, Sleeping Dave said:

But you simply can’t sack a manager after 6 games. It’s not running a football responsibly. 

Especially under the circumstances - we have so many injuries and the manager has not gotten what he wanted - goals and experience. There is no manager out there that will make this side a top side under these circumstances. We have chances, even one v one with the keeper and still do not score. I mean what kind of blame can we lay with the manager for players missing such chances? None imo. That’s all on the players I’m afraid. 

There are decisions that PochT could have done better. But some people on here are letting his Spurs history blind them completely. 

Nail firmly on head. 

This is why I can't sit back and just not engage  and let some of this rubbish fly through here. It is clear and obvious to see this, and in my opinion, this has no credibility in an argument to make such a massive decision as replacing a manager after 6 matches.

 

[Sciatika]

@asvaberg Not sure if Saltor going makes much difference. He is probably an adjunct to Poch's team and may be better off looking for a suitable position elsewhere to advance his career.

[paulw66]

25 minutes ago, blueboy1905 said:

Had we not been cheated by Dean & Taylor for the opening game v Tottenham Tuchel's record in the first 6 games would have read P6 W4 D1 L1. Certainly gives a different outlook.

we lost twice, to Leeds (3-0) and Southampton, who went on to finish bottom and 2nd bottom, and then lose to Zagreb, who didn't pick up another CL point. 

Something was already wrong.

[Mark Kelly]

14 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Yep, ignore the Tuchel was a "dead man walking" narrarative. We can hand pick some periods of Klopp's reign which were just as bad or worse results-wise, yet they continue to back their elite manager through transitions and look where they are now.

Even those who are not blindly supporting the board (like @Mark Kelly) regurgitate narratives about Tuchel's wife, him burning out, losing the dressing room, blah blah blah. We simply bottled backing the manager and rebuilding the club around him.

The board doesn't want a manager like Tuchel or Nagelsmann - they want a yes man who they can run over in the transfer market. "Poch wants an experienced striker? Don't worry - he's an affable guy - we can dodge that one and he'll get over it quickly!"

Why are you constantly putting words in my mouth that I haven't said? 

I've never said anything about Tuchels wife as far as I know. 

I don't give a monkeys about Tuchel, his wife, his dog or his donkey. 

My issue last season was with the players who in my opinion downed tools under Potter this season I can see the totally new playing staff are trying but this time out they're learning on the job in many cases. They need to be empowered to play at their best not shuffled around to suit the coaches fearfulness. 

[Max Fowler]

6 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

But you simply can’t sack a manager after 6 games. It’s not running a football responsibly. 

Especially under the circumstances - we have so many injuries and the manager has not gotten what he wanted - goals and experience. There is no manager out there that will make this side a top side under these circumstances. We have chances, even one v one with the keeper and still do not score. I mean what kind of blame can we lay with the manager for players missing such chances? None imo. That’s all on the players I’m afraid. 

There are decisions that Poch could have done better. But some people on here are letting his Spurs history blind them completely. 

Again, I repeat - I am not calling for him to be sacked after 6 games.

But, as an example, if we lose to Brighton, Fulham and Burnley, do you seriously think the writing won't be on the wall for Poch?

It's all well and good saying 6 games - it's the nature of those games that is the problem. The easiest run in the league.

And yes, I do think Poch is at fault for our team not being able to score. It's his job to give the team mentality, his job to give them confidence, his job to win us football matches whatever the circumstances. 

But, I repeat, the owners have completely shafted him in the forward department. They take most of the blame - but it doesn't mean this isn't a sinking ship and the best solution may be to get off it sooner rather than later.

 

[Max Fowler]

2 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Why are you constantly putting words in my mouth that I haven't said? 

I've never said anything about Tuchels wife as far as I know. 

I don't give a monkeys about Tuchel, his wife, his dog or his donkey. 

My issue last season was with the players who in my opinion downed tools under Potter this season I can see the totally new playing staff are trying but this time out they're learning on the job in many cases. They need to be empowered to play at their best not shuffled around to suit the coaches fearfulness. 

If you didn't say that in particular I apologise Mark, but I believe you have repeatedly said the writing was on the wall for Tuchel and ridiculed my support of him so that was what I was referring to you with by calling you out.

"I don't give a monkeys about Tuchel, his wife, his dog or his donkey." Brilliant.

[Max Fowler]

7 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

we lost twice, to Leeds (3-0) and Southampton, who went on to finish bottom and 2nd bottom, and then lose to Zagreb, who didn't pick up another CL point. 

Something was already wrong.

We were 6th you nutter. 6th!!!

We would have got relegated without those points. 10 points from 6 games. This season we have half that total.

If we were 6th now, noone would be calling for Poch's head. 

 

[paulw66]

10 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

We were 6th you nutter. 6th!!!

We would have got relegated without those points. 10 points from 6 games. This season we have half that total.

If we were 6th now, noone would be calling for Poch's head. 

 

I am not saying we should have sacked TT.

All I am saying is, that in his 7 games we lost to 3 terrible teams. All was not right already.

[Chelsea_Matt]

43 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

But you simply can’t sack a manager after 6 games. It’s not running a football responsibly. 

Especially under the circumstances - we have so many injuries and the manager has not gotten what he wanted - goals and experience. There is no manager out there that will make this side a top side under these circumstances. We have chances, even one v one with the keeper and still do not score. I mean what kind of blame can we lay with the manager for players missing such chances? None imo. That’s all on the players I’m afraid. 

There are decisions that Poch could have done better. But some people on here are letting his Spurs history blind them completely. 

The one v one chances. I wonder how many we have missed that would have been absolutely pivotal had we scored?

[xceleryx]

Just now, Chelsea_Matt said:

The one v one chances. I wonder how many we have missed that would have been absolutely pivotal had we scored?

Popped over to the Chelsea sub on Reddit and someone had compiled these from the Villa match alone. Don't necessarily agree with them all, but certainly more than enough opportunity to bulge the ol' onion bag.

 

[Dwmh]

5 hours ago, east lower said:

I get extremely cheesed off, Mrs EL still hasn't worked it out that it's best to disengage for a while after we get beat! Suffice to say we haven't spoken so much over the last year or so!

Aha you go to matches with someone.
I worked out long ago about the psychology of only one nutter in the room.
I learnt it commuting on British Rail and stuck waiting on a non-moving train.
sooner or later someone would start moaning aloud, and i'd sit smugly smiling at how silly they were.
But occasionally i found everyone else was reading their paper and the mad nutter was me.

No wonder you get to be the rational one.

 

5 hours ago, martin1905 said:

I feel like these owners, more importantly the British Government, ripped a big part of my life away from me and the time was right to have a short break.

We got lucky - ask Mudryk.

 

4 hours ago, Ham said:

Still staggering that the players are escaping blame virtually everywhere on these boards.

 

Not really.  I think people got fed up with blaming Havertz, Ziyech, Mendy, Kepa, Sterling, etc etc.

We are all speculating about the causes of our underperformance which goes back to March 2022.
I doubt many still think it is the players though.

 

[Sleeping Dave]

1 hour ago, Max Fowler said:

Again, I repeat - I am not calling for him to be sacked after 6 games.

Eh ok? There are other people on this forum apart from you Max. 

[Sleeping Dave]

48 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Popped over to the Chelsea sub on Reddit and someone had compiled these from the Villa match alone. Don't necessarily agree with them all, but certainly more than enough opportunity to bulge the ol' onion bag.

 

Exactly! That's a great breakdown. They score on a half chance while we miss chances that you'd expect players to score from. There is no excuse for our poor finishing, absolutely abysmal. We also make the wrong calls when we have the ball in the final third.