Mauricio Pochettino leaves Chelsea by mutual consent

[Guest mrsm81]

Yeah getting used to the format, sorry

Hope this is better.

[Max Fowler]

New athletic article on Poch https://archive.ph/bvrLR

[Mark Kelly]

10 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

 

 

A source close to senior players?

Who's that then Belle? 

Made up guff. 

[Sciatika]

Generally, I think it best to keep the message simple. I think our problems are building relationships and confidence not learning a suite of complicated moves.

[Gurj SS]

On 02/10/2023 at 15:09, Sciatika said:

Generally, I think it best to keep the message simple. I think our problems are building relationships and confidence not learning a suite of complicated moves.

I agree, plus there's always the need for an outlet that's very simple, I think ours is the moment a team steps up against us when we win the ball just get it over the opposition defence and let Mudryk off the leash; it might be an idea to take him off the wing against high pressing teams because he'll easily beat anyone in a foot race including sweeper keepers. Mudryk running off the back of defenders is like if Vardy had performance enhancing drugs in his prime, I think using him to his strengths is vital and against teams who sit deep let him pick the ball up and run at them.

Having said that there have been moments where a plan would really help things come along, like when the ball goes wide and our players don't know where the striker is so they delay the cross, then the moment is gone, we recycle the ball only to find the striker is totally nowhere near where they were, so we recycle again and then everyone has had to move around again; and it ends up coming to nothing. I think we could do we certain movements and patterns, making the same runs for a few minutes and then switching it to another pattern, just so if the opposition doesn't know which one it is our players know where their teammate will be without having to get their bifocals on just to pick out a player; and delay putting the ball into a dangerous area.

[kev61]

48 minutes ago, Gurj SS said:

I agree, plus there's always the need for an outlet that's very simple, I think ours is the moment a team steps up against us when we win the ball just get it over the opposition defence and let Mudryk off the leash; it might be an idea to take him off the wing against high pressing teams because he'll easily beat anyone in a foot race including sweeper keepers. Mudryk running off the back of defenders is like if Vardy had performance enhancing drugs in his prime, I think using him to his strengths is vital and against teams who sit deep let him pick the ball up and run at them.

Having said that there have been moments where a plan would really help things come along, like when the ball goes wide and our players don't know where the striker is so they delay the cross, then the moment is gone, we recycle the ball only to find the striker is totally nowhere near where they were, so we recycle again and then everyone has had to move around again; and it ends up coming to nothing. I think we could do we certain movements and patterns, making the same runs for a few minutes and then switching it to another pattern, just so if the opposition doesn't know which one it is our players know where their teammate will be without having to get their bifocals on just to pick out a player; and delay putting the ball into a dangerous area.

The problem with Mudryk  was the fact that our build up play was so slow that allowed the opposition defence to have two or sometimes three players around him.

When you move the ball quickly the opposition get disorganised and lets the like of Mudryk space to use his pace - it's not rocket science.

[johnnybozo]

If we're going to play like a washed up Wenger team and pass it around the front of an opponent's six years box we should just sack Poch and promote an academy manager to do it.

Unless we've got a world class brow beater like Mourinho, Conte or Tuchel I can't see these donkeys doing anything of worth. Either that or get Bielsa in to whip the Muppets into shape.

[Bison]

Very strange to hear him yesterday referring to the Liverpool and Arsenal performances as reasons why he's not worried.  We didn't win either of those games.

Games like Forest and Brentford are completely different in nature and we've lost both of them at home without scoring a goal.

If you're going to speak rubbish at least try and make a little sense. 

[Chelsea_Matt]

On 28/10/2023 at 14:31, johnnybozo said:

If we're going to play like a washed up Wenger team and pass it around the front of an opponent's six years box we should just sack Poch and promote an academy manager to do it.

Unless we've got a world class brow beater like Mourinho, Conte or Tuchel I can't see these donkeys doing anything of worth. Either that or get Bielsa in to whip the Muppets into shape.

 I don’t know, Johnners. As I posted on the Blackburn thread, the whole club has lost its way. 

I think it’s way bigger than Poch.

[Dwmh]

40 minutes ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

 I don’t know, Johnners. As I posted on the Blackburn thread, the whole club has lost its way. 

I think it’s way bigger than Poch.

Much bigger, much deeper than Poch.

(not that I am defending him)

[My Blood Is Blue]

13 hours ago, Dwmh said:

Much bigger, much deeper than Poch.

(not that I am defending him)

Completely agree. The issues we face are not solely down to the manager, but he isn’t always helping things.

We could replace the manager but I’m not sure too much would change, which is a pretty crap place to be.

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, My Blood Is Blue said:

Completely agree. The issues we face are not solely down to the manager, but he isn’t always helping things.

We could replace the manager but I’m not sure too much would change, which is a pretty crap place to be.

We are definitely a better team under Poch than under Potter , however , Poch simply doesn't help himself or the side with his cowardly approach to many of our games , against a piss poor Brentford side we had four centre halves , why? Was he scared they'd score from a corner ?  We are making the job that any nominal "winger" has , harder,  by not allowing his full back partner to overlap and overload the defence. Every time he makes a substitution he makes us worse .  I'm really looking forward to Reece James , the leagues best fullback being played as the leagues most mediocre winger because Pochettino is a coward . 

We are being hampered by Pochettino's cowardly approach to most games , we only play well against the top sides because I think that Poch hasn't got anything to lose and losing won't reflect badly on him so the shackles are loosened somewhat . 

Even then he manages to cock up the substitutions , against Arsenal the substitutions that Arteta made actively improved his side , the ones that Poch made , actively made us worse off. 

First and foremost he's a cowardly coach and we really wont improve until he shakes that off , you can see why he never wins anything as he's got a loser mentality .

[MickyDroy]

Not sure he lasts until New Years tbh.
Looking at the next five games its hard to see where the points are going to come from and Pochettino desperately needs points. We have put ourselves in such a situation that even a point away to Tottenham next is a poor result for us even though it's a good one in isolation. Same goes for City and Newcastle after Tottenham even though we'll probably lose all 3 and be even worse off.

We are level with 14th place and a couple of points ahead of 16th with brutal fixtures coming up. No Chelsea manager survives being down here in 14-16th place in December...

 

[My Blood Is Blue]

@MickyDroy maybe, but I honestly don’t see who you then bring in to replace him at this point. Very few decent options out there that would want to come here.

Personally, I think the owners will stick with him whilst we remain in with a chance of finishing top half. Europe next season isn’t happening and we need to accept that, but what we HAVE to see this season is progress over the season. The players all need to learn to play together and develop an understanding etc, so as long as that is seen to be happening, I think Poch stays.

[Chelsea_Matt]

1 hour ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Completely agree. The issues we face are not solely down to the manager, but he isn’t always helping things.

We could replace the manager but I’m not sure too much would change, which is a pretty crap place to be.

I think the new owners, though acting from a good place, threw the baby out with the bath water. Let’s be very generous and say they couldn’t agree with Tommy Tee and he had to go. Okay. Fine. 

Given the massive upheaval involved with the change, they threw our identity away by not only buying too much too soon but not being able to keep at least Cech and Marina, at least for the first season imo.

They would have imo taken a more measured approach and NEVER would have appointed Potter. 

IMO what we’re seeing now could have been avoided. But here we are, and we can’t change what’s done. We’ll get there but it’ll take a lot longer and be a lot harder than it should have been. 

 

[Max Fowler]

I think ultimately it doesn't matter whether Poch stays or goes. I still think we should keep him, but if it really goes off the rails we'll still find someone decent enough to replace him. It feels to me like the owners are more realistic now than they were with Potter where they put all their eggs in one basket.

[Chelsea_Matt]

2 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I think ultimately it doesn't matter whether Poch stays or goes. I still think we should keep him, but if it really goes off the rails we'll still find someone decent enough to replace him. It feels to me like the owners are more realistic now than they were with Potter where they put all their eggs in one basket.

What makes you say that? About the owners being more realistic?

[Max Fowler]

11 minutes ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

What makes you say that? About the owners being more realistic?

They gave Poch much less of a long contract, for one. They took a long time choosing the manager instead of going off Boehly's whims.

I just think Boehly so much thought Potter was his guy and therefore had real trouble letting go of him.

All of the briefings about the board being different and giving managers time came back to bite them and made them look ridiculous when they went back on their word. They won't make the same mistake.

Now the board have chosen more of a ready made option and won't be afraid to pull the plug if it's not working IMO.

[paulw66]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

, against a piss poor Brentford side we had four centre halves , why?

well, I don't think Cucurella is a centre half. We had 3. 

Let's see what happens when James is fit, and even Colwill, despite being a centre half, offers attacking threat at LB. 

Much like every position we have been somewhat hamstrung by injuries. Now that big ben is back, and hopefully James has a run of games, we should see full backs playing full back. With everyone back, if he continues to mess about, then I think your point is more valid. 

Saturday, I think he went for Disasi at RB over Gusto after what happened in the Arsenal game, although ultimately we conceded an almost identical goal.

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

 

Even then he manages to cock up the substitutions , against Arsenal the substitutions that Arteta made actively improved his side , the ones that Poch made , actively made us worse off. 

 

But then Arsenal were playing terribly. Any roll of the dice was likely to improve things. We were also playing well. In hindsight, doing nothing might have been better. I don't see how we could have played any better in that game than we did for the first 75 minutes.

Carry that on to Saturday..........who were the sub options that were going to improve things offensively? Our subs bench included two goalkeepers, 3 full backs, two teenage defensive midfielders, and an 18 year old CF. Not blaming Poch for the choices, as again, we were without  Broja, Nkunku, Chuk, Enzo and Mudryk.

I am willing to delay any verdict until we have at least 90% of our best players available.  

[Chelsea_Matt]

1 hour ago, MickyDroy said:

Not sure he lasts until New Years tbh.
Looking at the next five games its hard to see where the points are going to come from and Pochettino desperately needs points. We have put ourselves in such a situation that even a point away to Tottenham next is a poor result for us even though it's a good one in isolation. Same goes for City and Newcastle after Tottenham even though we'll probably lose all 3 and be even worse off.

We are level with 14th place and a couple of points ahead of 16th with brutal fixtures coming up. No Chelsea manager survives being down here in 14-16th place in December...

 

And what of the investors? I don’t care about them, but I do care about our finances. We’re already out of the CL for next season. 

[My Blood Is Blue]

I think the biggest issue isn't Poch, it's the so called 'football people' that the new owners have put in place. The recruitment plan has been theirs and that is largely the biggest issue we have and that is why I don't think a change in manager will make too much difference, unless it clearly does go fully off the rails on the pitch.

It's the 'football people' that set out on a strategy of under 25s only and way over-investing in very young players who for the most part won't have a future in our first team but are instead here in the hope we can turn a profit from them in a number of years. I'm sure this plan was in part asked for by the owners, however, those being tasked with running the recruitment strategy should have known enough and been smart enough to say at least 'yes, let's invest in young talent, but we also need to make sure that young talent has the right level of experience around them to be able to compete in the short term, which will allow them to grow and learn the game in this country properly'.

Without going too far into the debate (and also on the wrong thread), I think the new owners have tried to do far too much too quickly. I understand they wanted to start afresh and put their stamp on the club, but they took no time to assess what was here properly, what has worked well and is worth keeping and what areas needed improvement and change, both on and off the pitch. And I'm sure most of us agree that we needed a rebuild of the squad, it had become stale and lacking in creativity and goals, however, they've replaced pretty much the entire squad that was here when they joined and put in a new one that gives us new problems as well as some of the same problems we already had!

The owners haven't been here for 2 years yet, they've been here for just 3 windows and within that time they have shipped out so much of the playing squad that we are only left with 5 players who were in the first team squad when they took over (plus 4 who have come back in on loan) and that 5 includes our 3rd choice GK! For me, that's way too much in a short period of time, considering the ages and experience levels of those we've added to the squad. It's a very risky strategy and at the moment, it's not coming off.

I know strategies are set out over many years and I'm sure they have faith in the process more than we do, as they know what the expectations are along the way and making drastic changes will come with its own risks, but if I had any say in it, then I'd be strongly pushing for them to bring in some proper experience in January and the summer before making any other big signings (other than a proper and proven striker). I'd be focusing on leadership qualities ahead of flashy technical ability.

[Mark Kelly]

55 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

well, I don't think Cucurella is a centre half. We had 3. 

Let's see what happens when James is fit, and even Colwill, despite being a centre half, offers attacking threat at LB. 

Much like every position we have been somewhat hamstrung by injuries. Now that big ben is back, and hopefully James has a run of games, we should see full backs playing full back. With everyone back, if he continues to mess about, then I think your point is more valid. 

Saturday, I think he went for Disasi at RB over Gusto after what happened in the Arsenal game, although ultimately we conceded an almost identical goal.

But then Arsenal were playing terribly. Any roll of the dice was likely to improve things. We were also playing well. In hindsight, doing nothing might have been better. I don't see how we could have played any better in that game than we did for the first 75 minutes.

Carry that on to Saturday..........who were the sub options that were going to improve things offensively? Our subs bench included two goalkeepers, 3 full backs, two teenage defensive midfielders, and an 18 year old CF. Not blaming Poch for the choices, as again, we were without  Broja, Nkunku, Chuk, Enzo and Mudryk.

I am willing to delay any verdict until we have at least 90% of our best players available.  

Guilty as charged ! I'd forgotten that Cucurella played.

I still believe that  Pochettino overestimated Brentford and that he's a cowardly coach who'd rather keep what he holds than risk going for it . 

 

[Dwmh]

2 hours ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

I think the new owners, though acting from a good place, threw the baby out with the bath water. Let’s be very generous and say they couldn’t agree with Tommy Tee and he had to go. Okay. Fine. 

They threw 2 managers and about 20 players out with the bath water.
Other than the ageing Silva*, RLC and CHO,and may be Alonso, I am not sure anyone who has moved on should have done.
I don't think Kovacic is good enough for City's bench for example, but he is certainly good enough for a mid-table team like us.

*Silva has more than justified being kept, but I'd have expected him to be on the short list to go.

 

42 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Without going too far into the debate (and also on the wrong thread), I think the new owners have tried to do far too much too quickly.

Quite simply we removed Russian leadership for US leadership.
Look at the international pages of a major newspaper and, between the obvious misdirection, it is very clear that that is the wrong way to go.  Only Europe is going that way, Rest of the World is going further East to China.

[paulw66]

2 hours ago, Dwmh said:

 I am not sure anyone who has moved on should have done.

Really? wow.

 

[chara]

Probably the wrong thread but to be brutally honest..as an OG my Chelsea watching/following days are by the natural order of things somewhat limited...even with all the optimism in the World I will not see any of the young players retire.

My question..open...is watching my Club as an average ..hopefully..mid table one the way I want to leave the field?

More and more my natural optimism is being eroded and however much I try to be positive about the Chelsea future that whispering voice will not go away..... S & G..."A man hears what he wants to hear........"