Mauricio Pochettino leaves Chelsea by mutual consent

[Dwmh]

31 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

And while I fully appreciate your wisened perspective @chrisb, I genuinely think the owners and investors think of us still as a top four side ready to challenge for the title in the next few seasons

They are stupid, but not that stupid.
They know how bad it all is already.

What they won't do is admit it in public.

America is consistent in that.  Think...   well pretty much everywhere else in the world.

[chara]

OK..as I stated...done with The Poch...for me totally different from my very early GP disquiet...shared by many ..all of us reluctant to call GP out but felt he wasn't ever going to improve Chelsea..GP's chance to step up but he had reached his ceiling...20/20 hindsight is awesome!

Droy's often top jockey analogy, whilst repetitive, is spot on,,,,get a good jockey to bring the horse on then the winner to take him to the top.

The Poch doesn't seem to have the good jockey feel.....are Chelsea as bad as under GP?....not exactly but again not much better although with the overall young age of the squad there could be better days ahead eventually but so far The Poch has not shown he can get consistently to a decent level ...maybe it's a task beyond most average coaches.....it's not losing at OT 2-1 it's the way of it...looked like a team of average lower division Sunday footballers with some ability but not up to playing in the top, ,say...two divisions.

Not a Sanchez fan but he is what he is and although no PC is an average EPL keeper......ok mid table but not one for the top echelon. 

The rest all have ability and probably potential but who is there to bring out that potential?..The Poch is supposed to have that young talent progress ability but not a lot of proof of that so far..the reverse in fact.

Half time the streaming tv here had Joe Cole talking about beating Manure way back with flashes of the great players Chelsea had then..I don't live in the past but the contrast was painful.

Sometimes it feels like the first eleven to get changed are the match day starters..could be any combination and balance is by luck not judgement..that make any sense?

 

[Max Fowler]

 

 

[Chelsea_Matt]

3 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

 

 

I thought Poch was going to quit, once he’d agreed a payoff. Can’t believe though that another manager’s future is being discussed. 🤡 🌎 

[chara]

Strange post..Nkunku and Lavia untested in the EPL...Broja not exactly the cavalry to the rescue and Chilwell untested post long term injury.....

[Chelsea_Matt]

1 minute ago, chara said:

Strange post..Nkunku and Lavia untested in the EPL...Broja not exactly the cavalry to the rescue and Chilwell untested post long term injury.....

Yep. And sorry but Broja just isn’t up to it imo 

[ROTG]

12 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

 

 

Max.

that statement / rumour comes from Winstanley & Co who are defending there reputation “whatever that is”

[Bison]

5 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

 

As much as I like Nkunku these moronic directors and their client journalists have done him no favours. He hasn't played a single second of Premier League football but no trust us, he's the missing piece! I feel sorry for him.

[Dwmh]

18 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

 

 

So the dreaded Vote of Confidence is official then.

Won't do much good. But it might mean that the real story is that the Senior team are preparing an earlier exit than anticipated.
I know what I would want to do if I were them.  Like Trump in Afghanistan, 

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, McCreadie said:

I didn't want Potter to begin with, but once he got here, I got behind him and thought he should have a whole season and probably a bit more, up to Xmas 2023, to have the opportunity to make it work, pretty much regardless of results. I think exactly the same about Poch. I will probably think the same about the next guy (unless it is Roberto Martinez). If Potter had stayed until the end of last season, my opinion is that we would have ended with more points than we did.

Where in your analysis does the TB & the gang of 3 come into your play?

[Blue Moon]

9 hours ago, ROTG said:

Ok

Toodles 

Jeezus - and that, too. 

[ROTG]

2 minutes ago, Blue Moon said:

Jeezus - and that, too. 

Ok 

to be sure to be sure. 

[ROTG]

26 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

Won't do much good. But it might mean that the real story is that the Senior team are preparing an earlier exit than anticipated.

Do we have any senior players. 

[hallgalley]

I suppose that is why the timing of this story was no surprise 

 

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/lists/mauricio-pochettino-chelsea-todd-boehly-feyenoord-arne-slot/blt720418fe8f5e0e5f

personally I think that poch deserves at least half a season. However who decided knowing Lukaku was never going to play not to replace him needs to be held responsible for a lot of the poor showing this season.

[Blue Moon]

2 hours ago, ROTG said:

Ok 

to be sure to be sure. 

Jayzus. Ah well, to be expected. Adios

[ROTG]

7 minutes ago, Blue Moon said:

Jayzus. Ah well, to be expected. Adios

Poka 

[xceleryx]

4 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

It's worth pointing out that at every managerial cycle you have some fans and many journalists saying exactly the same thing. "It's ridiculous to think about sacking him this early", "he needs to be given more time", "we can't keep sacking managers" etc. The process is almost a parody of itself at this point, until the inevitable happens. I get people saying we need to be realistic given how our stature has fallen, but I genuinely think the reality of the situation is as follows: no Chelsea manager can sustain these results for much longer and the owners have proven to be little different from Roman in that regard. Rightly or wrongly, the inevitable will come around the corner pretty sharpish unless results improve. As Tuchel indicates, maybe the players are already losing faith with Poch.

And while I fully appreciate your wisened perspective @chrisb, I genuinely think the owners and investors think of us still as a top four side ready to challenge for the title in the next few seasons. I don't think we need to adjust our expectations because that's what the owners believe and they have the finances to back it up. I just think the plan has failed badly.

This last part strikes me the most and where I disagree because it's all contextual. 

If we had the squad of say 2008/09 and all the change that's transpired around the club had still taken place, then sure I can see why supporters shouldn't feel the need to adjust expectations. That's not what we have though when things changed. We had an okay squad that still retained some substantial flaws, was aging, even showcasing some decline, but ultimately had every little drop squeezed out of it to achieve what it did. Sure, it had a higher floor than the current one of this season, but it was tapped out in terms its ceiling and seeing any real substantial improvement without hostile changes still being made. Obviously with the transfer market as it is, it would've been pretty challenging, and certainly far more expensive, to try and attempt rebuilding through usual channels of proven established players - keeping in mind we initially went down this path in our first summer window and many still found the time to piss and moan about the figures, ages, and quality of those signed. The risk was still high, and debatably more damaging if gotten wrong because we know how difficult it can be trying to shift big contracts. 

We've since stripped that squad, moved on from virtually all our aging, declining and constant under performers and chosen to go down a talent based rebuild. While the direction of the rebuild can be argued, what cannot be contested is that the by-product of the choices made has lowered our immediate floor in the search of a higher ceiling than what the previously constructed team had. Now, there's still risk attached to this plan but it's also a lot more controlled from a financial situation with how we've capped our wages and structured things. Is it perfect? Of course not, but the larger point is that our immediate level has dropped which was to be expected based on our choices. As I said we've lowered our floor level in the search of a higher ceiling. This means expectations have to be adjusted accordingly based on where we stand now - not 2, 3 or 4 years ago, or even the historic nature over the last 20 years. We are not designed to challenge for a title now, we aren't even constructed to finish within the top four as we stand. It's very much the case of going backwards to go forwards.

Now, there's still a threshold to this and a minimum expectation. It's certainly not satisfactory to be in the lower half of the table, but we also have to acknowledge just how strong the Premier League is across the board so it is a possibility. Ownership wouldn't have gone down this pathway without knowing what may happen, they've been involved with sport before. And while football is a different beast, we do have a solid nucleus of a side with several highly talented individuals on board. If we can then add to that, specifically with a few higher quality established options, there's no reason why we can't raise our floor level in the near future very quickly. This is why patience is important. Even though things are a bit tougher to stomach at present, there is a genuine capability there. 

[Mark Kelly]

10 hours ago, hallgalley said:

I suppose that is why the timing of this story was no surprise 

 

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/lists/mauricio-pochettino-chelsea-todd-boehly-feyenoord-arne-slot/blt720418fe8f5e0e5f

personally I think that poch deserves at least half a season. However who decided knowing Lukaku was never going to play not to replace him needs to be held responsible for a lot of the poor showing this season.

Almost snubbed , kwolity reporting.

[Box of Tricks]

20 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

 

 

 

There aren't any words after a performance like that, it's kind of unspinnable.

The spotlight is now on him, whereas before it's been almost exclusively on Boehly and the billion pound spend. For his sake and ours, he has to find some answers fast.

[Max Fowler]

9 hours ago, xceleryx said:

This last part strikes me the most and where I disagree because it's all contextual. 

If we had the squad of say 2008/09 and all the change that's transpired around the club had still taken place, then sure I can see why supporters shouldn't feel the need to adjust expectations. That's not what we have though when things changed. We had an okay squad that still retained some substantial flaws, was aging, even showcasing some decline, but ultimately had every little drop squeezed out of it to achieve what it did. Sure, it had a higher floor than the current one of this season, but it was tapped out in terms its ceiling and seeing any real substantial improvement without hostile changes still being made. Obviously with the transfer market as it is, it would've been pretty challenging, and certainly far more expensive, to try and attempt rebuilding through usual channels of proven established players - keeping in mind we initially went down this path in our first summer window and many still found the time to piss and moan about the figures, ages, and quality of those signed. The risk was still high, and debatably more damaging if gotten wrong because we know how difficult it can be trying to shift big contracts. 

We've since stripped that squad, moved on from virtually all our aging, declining and constant under performers and chosen to go down a talent based rebuild. While the direction of the rebuild can be argued, what cannot be contested is that the by-product of the choices made has lowered our immediate floor in the search of a higher ceiling than what the previously constructed team had. Now, there's still risk attached to this plan but it's also a lot more controlled from a financial situation with how we've capped our wages and structured things. Is it perfect? Of course not, but the larger point is that our immediate level has dropped which was to be expected based on our choices. As I said we've lowered our floor level in the search of a higher ceiling. This means expectations have to be adjusted accordingly based on where we stand now - not 2, 3 or 4 years ago, or even the historic nature over the last 20 years. We are not designed to challenge for a title now, we aren't even constructed to finish within the top four as we stand. It's very much the case of going backwards to go forwards.

Now, there's still a threshold to this and a minimum expectation. It's certainly not satisfactory to be in the lower half of the table, but we also have to acknowledge just how strong the Premier League is across the board so it is a possibility. Ownership wouldn't have gone down this pathway without knowing what may happen, they've been involved with sport before. And while football is a different beast, we do have a solid nucleus of a side with several highly talented individuals on board. If we can then add to that, specifically with a few higher quality established options, there's no reason why we can't raise our floor level in the near future very quickly. This is why patience is important. Even though things are a bit tougher to stomach at present, there is a genuine capability there. 

The club and Poch have repeatedly said they expect to qualify for the Champions League this season. We have failed to improve our results from last season, nearly at the halfway stage. The owners did well to clear out the deadwood but also got rid of all of our experience at once. Long-term we may benefit from a lower wage bill and a younger squad but the plan needs to fundamentally change. Our youngsters are destroyed under the pressure. Poch's project has completely gone off the rails - Wednesday was a watershed moment in terms of bad performances and excuse-making. Nkunku coming back isn't going to change anything, like our January signings last season. Poch has lost the confidence of the dressing room - he is done, finished, goodbye. Our club is rotting culturally - the football people have failed just as much as the owners. We need a new plan, we need a new culture, we need new football people, and we likely need new owners the investors can bankroll.

[My Blood Is Blue]

I'm struggling to work out where I sit with Poch and the team at the moment. I'm not enjoying this season at all, we are crap, but I do feel that we have seen some kind of improvement from last season, but last season was just an utter mess thanks to the owners. The improvement hasn't been nearly enough though and we need to see much more improvement soon, or we run the risk of falling into the relegation fight (I genuinely believe that) and I don't think we have the characters to survive that. The next 6 league games are absolutely crucial for us and our season; Everton (a), Sheff Utd (h), Wolves (a), Palace (h), Luton (a), Fulham (h) - we have to be targetting 18 points from these, but I have no faith that will happen and I actually expect us to fall at the first hurdle.

I don't think we should sack Poch at this point, because I just don't see any other alternatives that would be willing to come here or guarantee a turn around in our fortunes, therefore I think we need to stick with him in the hope his 'plan' (whatever it is), starts to come together. I also think we should give him a fighting chance by getting a genuine option in the striker position and some experienced players in and around the squad as without these signings, I struggle to see how we can climb away from mid-table/bottom half mediocracy.

All that said, if we come away from the next 6 league games in a lower position in the table then we are now, then we really genuinely will have to consider changing managers, but I just do not know where we would go. De Zerbi is a no go for me, the last thing we need at the moment is 'the next big thing'. I would consider Emery, although I don't see why he would drop down from Villa to come to us, but he is the right kind of level; plenty of experience, but not one of the top names, as they just aren't the level we're at anymore.

It's a really sad state of affairs at the moment and a massive chunk of the blame has to fall at the owners door and the doors of the so called 'footballing people' they got in.

[Mark Kelly]

As much as I'm disappointed with Pochettino and his lack of (visible) coaching ,  his mentality of being scared of whoever we play and his complete failure to instil the nastiness that was the hallmark of his Spurs side (even Harry Kane , the worlds favourite Labrador was more Rottweiler in that side) I think we are very much lumbered with his due to the dearth of any "proper" quality coming up , there are very few immediate upgrades on the market and not many are breaking through to the level that idiots like me would notice , it's a bit like the striker situation for me , there just aren't the options available to us to get a proven quality player , everything is on a "hit and hope" basis , hence Jackson and Broja.

I think unless we do something truly bizarre but lets be honest not unlikely ,like  lose the next six on the spin then we will have to see this through to the bitter end.

[McCreadie]

4 hours ago, ROTG said:

Where in your analysis does the TB & the gang of 3 come into your play?

I would suggest some money has been spent very well and some money has been wasted. Over the fullness of time, their signings will either succeed and they will stay, or fail and they will get the boot. Everything else is just noise.

 

 

 

[Max Fowler]

1 hour ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

I'm struggling to work out where I sit with Poch and the team at the moment. I'm not enjoying this season at all, we are crap, but I do feel that we have seen some kind of improvement from last season, but last season was just an utter mess thanks to the owners. The improvement hasn't been nearly enough though and we need to see much more improvement soon, or we run the risk of falling into the relegation fight (I genuinely believe that) and I don't think we have the characters to survive that. The next 6 league games are absolutely crucial for us and our season; Everton (a), Sheff Utd (h), Wolves (a), Palace (h), Luton (a), Fulham (h) - we have to be targetting 18 points from these, but I have no faith that will happen and I actually expect us to fall at the first hurdle.

I don't think we should sack Poch at this point, because I just don't see any other alternatives that would be willing to come here or guarantee a turn around in our fortunes, therefore I think we need to stick with him in the hope his 'plan' (whatever it is), starts to come together. I also think we should give him a fighting chance by getting a genuine option in the striker position and some experienced players in and around the squad as without these signings, I struggle to see how we can climb away from mid-table/bottom half mediocracy.

All that said, if we come away from the next 6 league games in a lower position in the table then we are now, then we really genuinely will have to consider changing managers, but I just do not know where we would go. De Zerbi is a no go for me, the last thing we need at the moment is 'the next big thing'. I would consider Emery, although I don't see why he would drop down from Villa to come to us, but he is the right kind of level; plenty of experience, but not one of the top names, as they just aren't the level we're at anymore.

It's a really sad state of affairs at the moment and a massive chunk of the blame has to fall at the owners door and the doors of the so called 'footballing people' they got in.

Simple point. We have improved a bit, but many other teams have improved more (Arsenal, Aston Villa, Everton, Liverpool Man United, Newcastle, Spurs, West Ham). Therefore in relative terms we have not improved compared to the sides around us, hence our results.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Max Fowler

[Thiago97]

6 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Simple point. We have improved a bit, but many other teams have improved more (Arsenal, Aston Villa, Everton, Liverpool Man United, Newcastle, Spurs, West Ham). Therefore in relative terms we have not improved compared to the sides around us, hence our results.

The teams you have mentioned have  improved (except Utd). At the same time, they all have a clear identity that is months/years into the process, with the exception of spurs, who have a completely new identity that they are implementing under a new manager. It is also one that is now facing some cracks and potential issues to resolve in the short term. 

I would say out of these teams listed here, the only team I have we have anything in common with is Man Utd (who regardless of what the table says, have not improved). Both teams are struggling to implement an identify of how they want to play, whether that is down to the players/managers is up for debate. Both teams have made some very questionable decisions over the last 5 years, which has meant both teams are feeling the consequences of those poor decisions. Football does also move in cycles at times, timing is an underrated element in football. Making good decisions at the right time can have massive implications. Villa replacing an unproven and out of his depth manager, with a very smart tactical manager who many big clubs cast aside because of what happened at Arsenal (timings again- right place at the wrong time)

Personally, its just more reasons to stick with the manager and give things time to breathe and develop. As long as we are seeing improvement in performances and results, then further time and support is required. The alternative is we continue to be perpetually in transition and never get anywhere.......a bit like Utd!