Mauricio Pochettino leaves Chelsea by mutual consent

[Max Fowler]

11 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

I would say out of these teams listed here, the only team I have we have anything in common with is Man Utd (who regardless of what the table says, have not improved).

Making good decisions at the right time can have massive implications. Villa replacing an unproven and out of his depth manager, with a very smart tactical manager who many big clubs cast aside because of what happened at Arsenal (timings again- right place at the wrong time)

Personally, its just more reasons to stick with the manager and give things time to breathe and develop. As long as we are seeing improvement in performances and results, then further time and support is required.

"Having something in common" isn't the point. If the league improves more than we do, we get left behind.

I now firmly believe we have a manager who is "out of his depth", or you might call in the "right place at the wrong time".

We are not seeing improvements in performances and results. The results are exactly the same as last season under Potter. The performances are a bit better but relative to teams around us we have gone backwards.

That is not improvement, because improvement is relative and we need to improve more than others to catch up.

Those brave decisions that I believe we need to make are as follows: 1) Replace Pochettino 2) Replace the Sporting Directors 3) Replace Boehly & Egbhali 4) Replace the failed youth experiment with a new plan for success*

*The new plan can continue to integrate our young players and identify bright young talents. But crucially it must have a primary focus on buying a mixture of top quality, characters, experienced & proven Premier League players if we want to compete at the top of the league. See Arsenal with the likes of Zinchenko, Jesus, Partey, Trossard, Rice, and dare I say it - Jorghino and Havertz.

[Mark Kelly]

2 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

 

Those brave decisions that I believe we need to make are as follows: 1) Replace Pochettino 2) Replace the Sporting Directors 3) Replace Boehly & Egbhali 4) Replace the failed youth experiment with a new plan for success*

 

OK , give me until Monday and I'll sort it. 

[Max Fowler]

1 minute ago, Mark Kelly said:

OK , give me until Monday and I'll sort it. 

I believe all of that can be done by the summer, if not before. Again - if we want to be brave and bold.

[Dwmh]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

As much as I'm disappointed with Pochettino and his lack of (visible) coaching ,  his mentality of being scared of whoever we play and his complete failure to instil the nastiness that was the hallmark of his Spurs side (even Harry Kane , the worlds favourite Labrador was more Rottweiler in that side) I think we are very much lumbered with his due to the dearth of any "proper" quality coming up , there are very few immediate upgrades on the market and not many are breaking through to the level that idiots like me would notice , it's a bit like the striker situation for me , there just aren't the options available to us to get a proven quality player , everything is on a "hit and hope" basis , hence Jackson and Broja.

I think unless we do something truly bizarre but lets be honest not unlikely ,like  lose the next six on the spin then we will have to see this through to the bitter end.

Poch and Spurs.  I really have changed my view on the Argentine and that 2016 game.  Spurs have always seen to be nasty to us, not just under Poch.  But they have always always been a bit Spursy, even under Poch.

So I am coming round to viewing the nasty side as simply being an anti-Chelsea thing, not a Poch thing.  I know getting paranoid and thinking it is all about us can be a trap.  But the one club that really has hated Chelsea from 2003 - when they had long thought they were at least No 2 in London next to rivals Arsenal - is Spurs.

And yes - Poch is the result of our problems with recruitment and holding onto players and coaches, not the cause.

 

10 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Those brave decisions that I believe we need to make are as follows: 1) Replace Pochettino 2) Replace the Sporting Directors 3) Replace Boehly & Egbhali 4) Replace the failed youth experiment with a new plan for success*

5) explain to the investors that you are writing off the first $2bn.
Actually that needs to be step 1.  Only if the owners are brave enough to do that can they consider 2, 3 and 4.

[Thiago97]

53 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

"Having something in common" isn't the point. If the league improves more than we do, we get left behind.

I now firmly believe we have a manager who is "out of his depth", or you might call in the "right place at the wrong time".

We are not seeing improvements in performances and results. The results are exactly the same as last season under Potter. The performances are a bit better but relative to teams around us we have gone backwards.

That is not improvement, because improvement is relative and we need to improve more than others to catch up.

Those brave decisions that I believe we need to make are as follows: 1) Replace Pochettino 2) Replace the Sporting Directors 3) Replace Boehly & Egbhali 4) Replace the failed youth experiment with a new plan for success*

*The new plan can continue to integrate our young players and identify bright young talents. But crucially it must have a primary focus on buying a mixture of top quality, characters, experienced & proven Premier League players if we want to compete at the top of the league. See Arsenal with the likes of Zinchenko, Jesus, Partey, Trossard, Rice, and dare I say it - Jorghino and Havertz.

I didn't say it was the point. However, the other teams you have listed are all a number of months/years into their development, with the exception of spurs. They have all had to suffer (when Chelsea were doing  well) to get to the position they are in now. As I have said, football goes in cycles,  which can be linked to decisions/timings made on player/manager recruitment.  The teams listed are all enjoying a stable period of anything from 12 months to 5 plus years, and they are reaping  the rewards. If there was two teams in your list who are not currently stable , and not currently doing well. It is Man Utd and Chelsea.

Maybe there is something in that.

[ROTG]

2 hours ago, McCreadie said:

I would suggest some money has been spent very well and some money has been wasted. Over the fullness of time, their signings will either succeed and they will stay, or fail and they will get the boot. Everything else is just noise.

 

 

 

Nor sure about the noise statement when it quite clear the investment has been poor in terms of monies paid for very average players. Of the money spend does any one of the players recruited look anything like a world beater.

Answers on a postcard to "they are young and signed for the future"

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, Max Fowler said:

I now firmly believe we have a manager who is "out of his depth", or you might call in the "right place at the wrong time".

We are not seeing improvements in performances and results. The results are exactly the same as last season under Potter. The performances are a bit better but relative to teams around us we have gone backwards.

If Pochettino gets to 54pts at the end of the season, then he has managed to get a squad put together by 3 championship scouts and an owners Ego to the level of his former club Southampton, which is about the level of the squad.

Also you need to consider the "game changers" who are coming back from injury and will be available for the second half of the season

[chara]

3 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Those brave decisions that I believe we need to make are as follows: 1) Replace Pochettino 2) Replace the Sporting Directors 3) Replace Boehly & Egbhali 4) Replace the failed youth experiment with a new plan for success*

 

There..in my very humble opinion ..is the root of the problem. Not the whole picture and not the complete answer but to replace The Poch with someone "chosen"/"advised" by the hidden puppet string holders sticks in my craw. 

Like asking the Captain of the Titanic for navigation tips!

[Max Fowler]

2 hours ago, Thiago97 said:

I didn't say it was the point. However, the other teams you have listed are all a number of months/years into their development, with the exception of spurs. They have all had to suffer (when Chelsea were doing  well) to get to the position they are in now. As I have said, football goes in cycles,  which can be linked to decisions/timings made on player/manager recruitment.  The teams listed are all enjoying a stable period of anything from 12 months to 5 plus years, and they are reaping  the rewards. If there was two teams in your list who are not currently stable , and not currently doing well. It is Man Utd and Chelsea.

Maybe there is something in that.

Football comes in cycles, but Arsenal and Man United have failed for decades because of bad management. Yet none of the managers at the clubs above us failed to meet expectations in their first season like Poch has. If they had, they wouldn't still be here. If Everton beat us on Sunday, he will have a lower points per match than all of them, including Dyche.

We are going through a transition but there are basic standards we are failing to meet. The United performance was so bad and his reaction so helpless; we have been down this road many times before. Poch was never going to win us titles so this is no great loss. I really came to like him but he is clearly out of his depth and failing to influence the dressing room.

As for the owners, when and how they reassess the project remains to be seen. Boehly and Eghbali could well be booted out at the end of the season, along with the football people they appointed. Our investors may know nothing about football, but will be cottoning on to the fact that we are running an experiment that no other club has tried in history.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Max Fowler

[Max Fowler]

 

[chara]

Bit fuzzy about the "ownership" set up.....back in the Dark Ages when I first began to understand,,slowly..the Game.rather than the blinkered results win/lose joy/sadness as a young person,,,the ownership was The Mears family a pattern across the whole pro game..family or successful business man actually owning the club as probably an ego or old club loyalty once made good in the world rather than the somewhat confusing and convoluted "investment" financial (and other motives/considerations) ....ownerships on show at this time.

Better informed and experienced voices on here understand things better than I do....would appreciate a breakdown in terms an OG can understand without referring to an Oxford Dictionary,,,yep..I'm that much of a Stone Age OG!

[McCreadie]

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

Nor sure about the noise statement when it quite clear the investment has been poor in terms of monies paid for very average players. Of the money spend does any one of the players recruited look anything like a world beater.

Answers on a postcard to "they are young and signed for the future"

Its your privilege to ignore the facts if you want to. In the real world, you can't really argue with "they are young and signed for the future", because...ahem, they are young and signed for the future 🙂. That's the policy, right or wrong and that's a very different argument.

I personally prefer to give the players at least 18 months before I write them off and consign them to the "waste of money" dustbin, but that's just me. Any idiot can shout "he's a crap player" after a few games (I did it myself with Baba Rahman), but it doesn't achieve anything. My take now, is that it is better to be patient and hope they improve - some will. The PL history is littered with many hundreds of players that have struggled badly first season and then come good.

Didier Drogba, Frank Lampard, Thierry Henry are the first 3 that spring to mind.

For balance, it is also littered with many hundreds that didn't get better too. Kai Havertz, Anthony Martial etc , And every transfer window will have around as many fails as successes. It's life. 

If I had to decide now, which I dont, I would suggest Chuckwuemaka, Palmer, Enzo, Nkunku, Fofana W, Caicedo and Lavia will be players that we will be very happy that we bought in the future.

Madueke, Les, Disasi probably less so.

Jackson, Badiashile, Mudryk, Gusto could very much go either way. 

Cucurella we paid too much for.

 

Just my opinion currently, I reserve the right to change it as much and as often as I want and I'm sure others will disagree wildly.

[chara]

@McCreadie,,,good post..that's why we have a Forum,,,,to express opinions and to reflect as circumstances change.

Noone is "wrong"...... WE all need to respect an opinion even if we disagree...come up with an alternative answer but not sneering comment....WE ARE ALL ON THE SAME SIDE!!!!!!

[Max Fowler]

56 minutes ago, chara said:

Bit fuzzy about the "ownership" set up.....back in the Dark Ages when I first began to understand,,slowly..the Game.rather than the blinkered results win/lose joy/sadness as a young person,,,the ownership was The Mears family a pattern across the whole pro game..family or successful business man actually owning the club as probably an ego or old club loyalty once made good in the world rather than the somewhat confusing and convoluted "investment" financial (and other motives/considerations) ....ownerships on show at this time.

Better informed and experienced voices on here understand things better than I do....would appreciate a breakdown in terms an OG can understand without referring to an Oxford Dictionary,,,yep..I'm that much of a Stone Age OG!

For some reason, I actually thought Boehly and Egbhali had less wealth and influence than they actually do, and I was sure I read they could be under pressure from fellow investors if we fail again this season (but I cannot find the article). Boehly is worth $6 billion and Eghbali $3.8 billion as the co-founder of Clearlake (at least they have plenty of cash to burn).

There are two other investors worth similar amounts in Wyss and Walter, but Boehly and Eghbali are leading the consortium. Sounds like it may be harder to "oust" them than I originally thought... Hopefully we can nonetheless convince them to change course.

[Mark Kelly]

2 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

 

He's a fucking idiot. 

[Ham]

4 hours ago, ROTG said:

 

Also you need to consider the "game changers" who are coming back from injury and will be available for the second half of the season

Is it necessary to make this same snipe multiple times a day?

Are you worried we'll constantly forget your position?

[chara]

7 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

He's a fucking idiot. 

Hmm..on the fence as usual Mark! 🚁🍷😍

[Mark Kelly]

1 minute ago, chara said:

Hmm..on the fence as usual Mark! 🚁🍷😍

I understand that press conferences are generally used for anything but promoting the truth but I actually think he believes it and /or thinks he'd best keep up the pretence unless Eggy gives him the heave ho. 

[Dwmh]

11 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I understand that press conferences are generally used for anything but promoting the truth but I actually think he believes it and /or thinks he'd best keep up the pretence unless Eggy gives him the heave ho. 

I'm not going to waste my time watching his press conferences, but essentially he is one of many people nowadays whose job depends on believing what their bosses tell them and don't really care to challenge that.
If the Clearlacks start to tell the truth in public then they also have to revalue their investment downwards.  No one wants to do that yet.

[Chelsea_Matt]

6 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

I'm not going to waste my time watching his press conferences, but essentially he is one of many people nowadays whose job depends on believing what their bosses tell them and don't really care to challenge that.
If the Clearlacks start to tell the truth in public then they also have to revalue their investment downwards.  No one wants to do that yet.

Is Clearlacks better than Creamcakes? 🤣 🍰 

[Chelsea_Matt]

40 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

He's a fucking idiot. 

Why don’t you tell us what you really feel, Mr. K? 🤣🤣 🔥 

[Dwmh]

4 minutes ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

Is Clearlacks better than Creamcakes? 🤣 🍰 

Yeah - Stolen from @Morgs.  But I think it is an improvement.

But if they think we are top 4 candidates soon, maybe it should be ClearCrack.
 

[chara]

32 minutes ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

Is Clearlacks better than Creamcakes? 🤣 🍰 

My vote says YES !

 

24 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

Yeah - Stolen from @Morgs.  But I think it is an improvement.

But if they think we are top 4 candidates soon, maybe it should be ClearCrack.
 

Hmm...close...but maybe Cream Cracker(ed)..what about a "staff" collective noun...ClearLackeys?

Told you they were doing my head in 🧟‍♂️

[boratsbrother]

30 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

@Morgs

But if they think we are top 4 candidates soon, maybe it should be ClearCrack.
 

Or CreamBloodyCrackers.

[jasonb]

I don't blame Poch, about six players out injured. It has been like this most of the season  and he can't plan for that.

Also recently two first team players getting reds through indiscipline.

Silva may be old though the most experienced player we have and at times we need a cool head.

I really think at some point this season the injury prone will be moved on or paid off.

December / January will be interesting in terms of our activity though December is a massive month, 7 fixtures with 4 away.