Sabrina F. Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) We'll just have the 5th manager in 2 years then, with zero bounce and exact same results so far. It must be unprecedented. Coaches of Pochettino's caliber are the best we will get in the future, no elite coach is touching this job. The structure is a mess, the strategy is a paradox, it's imposed from the top, the money has been burnt and the bill is due, the culture is lacking, the human competence has left. Chelsea used to be the club where coaches go build their CVs with trophies galore. It's now synonymous with professional suicide. Edited January 10 by Sabrina F. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Just now, Sabrina F. said: We'll just have the 5th manager in 2 years then, with zero bounce and exact same results so far. It must be unprecedented. Coaches of Pochettino's caliber are the best we will get in the future, no elite coach is touching this job. The structure is a mess, the strategy is a paradox, it's imposed from the top, the money has been burnt and the bill is due, the culture is lacking, the human competence has left. Chelsea used to be the club where coaches go build their CVs with trophies galore. It's now synonymous with professional suicide. We don't need an elite coach we need a coach 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrina F. Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 We've just had 4 in the past 2 years. Different coaches, different players, same results. One won the CL while outcoaching the best in Europe and is now at Bayern, contending for the CL again. We were mediocre in his last 6 months. One turned a club destined for relegation battles into comfortable mid-table PL club overachieving its financial means. One at least got Top 4 in the past at this same club. One has a proven record as a good PL coach at 2 different clubs. So, one is elite, 2 are PL competent, and one could get something with vibes. I'd say this is an Us problem, not a them problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flllerywhereru2 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Im not really for or against Pochettino as a person, of course that he was a Spurs coach probably is part of that but its not the be all and end all for me tbh. This squad that we find ourselves with needs a man of experience in charge and he has that. I think we are now a more coherent unit and have at least the beginnings of a style of play. That was evident last night and but for errant finishing, bad luck and good/lucky defending we could have come away with a draw/win. However i do think we could have come away with a two goal deficit to overturn as well and as a team that were always hard to breakdown that being easier to score against is hard to deal with especially on one of our wasteful days. The result from last night could easily have happened in the fa cup had we not hit a purple patch in the second half but it didnt and of course there is no guarantee that we will overturn this 0-1 at the Bridge if we have another off day or cant overcome their tactics. But overall i do feel that Pochettino is a steady hand who is currently what is needed to knit this squad togetherr and get them playing eventually as a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 There are dozens of coaches across every league right now making the group of players at their disposal perform and look more than the sum of their parts. This isn't to absolve the sporting directors. They should also be heading out the door along with Pochettino. We are stuck with the owners but not these three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrina F. Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Didn’t we say those exact same words a year ago exactly? Those clubs are most likely better set up, better organized, have a core of PL proven players with experience and know how and familiarity. They most likely have better medical and performance departments, are likely financially healthier now too, they have goals and targets aligned with the size of their clubs, they know what and who to scout to reach those goals. No one sets up managers to fail quite like us at the moment. Because the issues were there before Pochettino. Last months of Tuchel (objectively an elite coach) to Potter to Lampard to Pochettino. The fact there wasn’t even a hint of a bounce, even a fluky one that happens at every club, says everything about how mismanaged we are as a football club. We’d be lucky if Pochettino was our biggest problem. It would mean a managerial change would suffice to change our trajectory, but he’s not, and that’s the bad news. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 34 minutes ago, Sabrina F. said: Didn’t we say those exact same words a year ago exactly? Those clubs are most likely better set up, better organized, have a core of PL proven players with experience and know how and familiarity. They most likely have better medical and performance departments, are likely financially healthier now too, they have goals and targets aligned with the size of their clubs, they know what and who to scout to reach those goals. No one sets up managers to fail quite like us at the moment. Because the issues were there before Pochettino. Last months of Tuchel (objectively an elite coach) to Potter to Lampard to Pochettino. The fact there wasn’t even a hint of a bounce, even a fluky one that happens at every club, says everything about how mismanaged we are as a football club. We’d be lucky if Pochettino was our biggest problem. It would mean a managerial change would suffice to change our trajectory, but he’s not, and that’s the bad news. Can you explain how Unai Emery can go into Villa who'd not got any better players than we have, got them to buy into his vision and almost immediately improved them beyond measure but Poch can't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said: Can you explain how Unai Emery can go into Villa who'd not got any better players than we have, got them to buy into his vision and almost immediately improved them beyond measure but Poch can't? And that’s the real rub, he’s improving very little and nothing that is discernible, where others have and are continuing to. There’s two teams I absolutely despise for a whole host of reasons - Red lot from the city of self-pity and that white mob from the Nth of our fair capital and it really hurts me to say what’s coming next - But the Red lot are everything we’re not - hard working, dynamic (a fair bit), mobile, instinctive, committed and passionate. Klopp took a little while to get them challenging but you could see what he was trying to do and they improved, heck when they had their bad season, he’s re-built and has them back challenging again the next season. Then you have the Nth London lot, they are at where I was hoping and expecting us to be (so did our coach, in his own quoted words). A good bit off a league title (thank heaven for that) but energetic, and showing some form of identity. Our fella has not achieved any of the above, he’s tactically naive but we’ve been on the end of that when he managed others to our advantage. So most of us who’d watched his teams at first hand knew his limitations and that’s why I was sceptical of his appointment and one of the first on here to call him out, as clear as could be he couldn’t cut it at the very top level. He’s not even the safe pair of hands that some hoped he be, he’s destroying our players not improving and for that last reason is why he should be gone already. He may get to the end of the season, if he does, say sayonara to this group ever achieving potential - it’ll be too late as some of the crowd will turn on them. If we lose on Saturday and with a short break coming, he could get pushed out then. The crowd are turning, very similar to AVB. It’s not personal, it’s business and he’s not good enough at his chosen business. Edited January 10 by east lower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelsea_Matt Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 19 minutes ago, east lower said: And that’s the real rub, he’s improving very little and nothing that is discernible, where others have and are continuing to. There’s two teams I absolutely despise for a whole host of reasons - Red lot from the city of self-pity and that white mob from the Nth of our fair capital and it really hurts me to say what’s coming next - But the Red lot are everything we’re not - hard working, dynamic (a fair bit), mobile, instinctive, committed and passionate. Klopp took a little while to get them challenging but you could see what he was trying to do and they improved, heck when they had their bad season, he’s re-built and has them back challenging again the next season. Then you have the Nth London lot, they are at where I was hoping and expecting us to be (so did our coach, in his own quoted words). A good bit off a league title (thank heaven for that) but energetic, and showing some form of identity. Our fella has not achieved any of the above, he’s tactically naive but we’ve been on the end of that when he managed others to our advantage. So most of us who’d watched his teams at first hand knew his limitations and that’s why I was sceptical of his appointment and one of the first on here to call him out, as clear as could be he couldn’t cut it at the very top level. He’s not even the safe pair of hands that some hoped he be, he’s destroying our players not improving and for that last reason is why he should be gone already. He may get to the end of the season, if he does, say sayonara to this group ever achieving potential - it’ll be too late as some of the crowd will turn on them. If we lose on Saturday and with a short break coming, he could get pushed out then. The crowd are turning, very similar to AVB. It’s not personal, it’s business and he’s not good enough at his chosen business. Problem is this though. We’ve spent a billion on this shower including £230,000,000 on the Overrated Brothers Caicedo and Enzo. For me it’s back to basics. Antonio. 🫶🏻 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrina F. Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 39 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said: Can you explain how Unai Emery can go into Villa who'd not got any better players than we have, got them to buy into his vision and almost immediately improved them beyond measure but Poch can't? My guess is Villa have far more competent people behind the scenes, and a bad manager was holding them back. They’ve money now. They have an incredible academy. They have a world class performance staff, including some of the best data people in football. Take a look at their set-piece routines, they went a few years ago and got set-piece analysts. They play the offside trap like no one else in the league right now. So their mistake was Gerrad. Easy fix. Maybe you haven’t paid attention but all our behind the scenes human resources left: analysts, performance specialists, doctors, coaches, scouts - all of them had 10-15 years experience at the club - they have been leaving for the past 2 years with a steady outgoing flow. We’re a poorly run club, where managers aren’t the easy fix anymore. We don’t have competence behind the scenes anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Sabrina F. said: My guess is Villa have far more competent people behind the scenes, and a bad manager was holding them back. They’ve money now. They have an incredible academy. They have a world class performance staff, including some of the best data people in football. Take a look at their set-piece routines, they went a few years ago and got set-piece analysts. They play the offside trap like no one else in the league right now. So their mistake was Gerrad. Easy fix. Maybe you haven’t paid attention but all our behind the scenes human resources left: analysts, performance specialists, doctors, coaches, scouts - all of them had 10-15 years experience at the club - they have been leaving for the past 2 years with a steady outgoing flow. We’re a poorly run club, where managers aren’t the easy fix anymore. We don’t have competence behind the scenes anymore. Maybe you haven't been paying attention to Pochettino playing full backs as wingers Centre halves as full backs, wingers as centre forwards? Did Poch come on his own or did he bring an entire back room staff with him who'd worked with him for years? Maybe you haven't paid attention to that? We're not well run but in one of the aspects we're not well run in is employing a washed up coward as a coach. Edited January 10 by Mark Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Chelsea_Matt said: Problem is this though. We’ve spent a billion on this shower including £230,000,000 on the Overrated Brothers Caicedo and Enzo. For me it’s back to basics. Antonio. 🫶🏻 Yep, and it’s heartbreaking that the money has been there and by far the majority has been wasted with little hope that we’ll ever get Value For Money. Picture the scenario, a Director of Football or one of Clearfake’s cronies are asked to talk to the players asking why things are going as they are and (just using this one as an example) they ask Enzo what’s wrong and why he’s not performing in the same way for us as he did/does internationally - believe me this stuff goes on at professional clubs. There’s always someone the owners/directors speak to, the player rarely says “it’s all me, I’m playing crap, he league doesn’t suit my skill-set”. They’ll blame the system, not playing in my best position, coaches not listening. Then the people asking the questions go and report this, they’ll not blame themselves as identifying and recruiting the wrong players and probably get told to garner more ‘opinion’. It ends in the coach manager getting the blame. The club is broken and a re-start is required, spunked the dough now though - making it a real challenge now. If the coach goes so should the gang of Winstanley and co, they’re almost as culpable. Conte’s personality couldn’t take this lot, although if there was a re-set and acknowledgement to get proper winners and a team that can work together and agree to do so - it might be ok, but Antonio does have a bit of a two-season limit to his employments. Edited January 10 by east lower 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrina F. Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 37 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said: Maybe you haven't been paying attention to Pochettino playing full backs as wingers Centre halves as full backs, wingers as centre forwards? Did Poch come on his own or did he bring an entire back room staff with him who'd worked with him for years? Maybe you haven't paid attention to that? We're not well run but in one of the aspects we're not well run in is employing a washed up coward as a coach. We’ve had 4 managers. 4 staffs. All have different methodologies: tactical, physical, management wise. All with the same results. They’ve all failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 https://apple.news/AfDPuOtqFSkqdIcPX8iac9Q Damning and accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 1 minute ago, east lower said: https://apple.news/AfDPuOtqFSkqdIcPX8iac9Q Damning and accurate. Saw it earlier, spot on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 9 minutes ago, Sabrina F. said: We’ve had 4 managers. 4 staffs. All have different methodologies: tactical, physical, management wise. All with the same results. They’ve all failed. Not really, we had Tuchel who succeeded but unfortunately probably told Clearfake they didn’t have a scooby. Potter who failed, two interims and the latest Fraud, who’s failing. Incorrect selection and proof that taking a very large ‘my way or the highway’ American wrecking ball to a previously successful football club was outright egotistical lunacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin1905 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 6 minutes ago, Sabrina F. said: We’ve had 4 managers. 4 staffs. All have different methodologies: tactical, physical, management wise. All with the same results. They’ve all failed. What we have seen in the past couple of seasons is just how important a proper manager is. We have seen three completely inept managers fail miserably. The one good one we had took over a shambolic team finished 4th and won the champions league in his first season. Came third in his second season. Also had a few cup finals whilst he was here. He really didn't fail. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrina F. Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) Let’s not pretend that Tuchel was not psychologically imploding in his last 6 months with the new ownership. He spent a preseason warning he wasn’t doing any coaching because he had no time, that our transfers were rushed because his own staff was doing the scouting (always a bad idea), and we went into the season unprepared and undercoached. He got better results than the others, sure. He had some inspiring substitutes and we stole points here and there (vs West Ham and Leicester famously), but we were awful. We were playing midtable football already. And it wasn’t his fault either. He’s a great coach given little support and has had to bear the burden of nonsense from the new owners in a very direct way. FIY, we’re not attracting another Tuchel anytime soon. When Tuchel came in, he was clearly excited about the squad. First thing he did was reinstate experience, leaders and the matured players back into the team: Rüdiger, Azpi at the back, Jorginho in midfield while letting the youth handle the high press duties. An energetic team that also had the know how to execute very high level and sophisticated tactical game plans. We no longer have players with credentials, know how, experience. We have kids backing up other kids. Elite coaches know what type of the squad you need to win consistently, this Frankenstein squad isn’t that. Edited January 10 by Sabrina F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelsea_Matt Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 30 minutes ago, east lower said: https://apple.news/AfDPuOtqFSkqdIcPX8iac9Q Damning and accurate. Oof.😥 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelsea_Matt Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 6 minutes ago, Sabrina F. said: Let’s not pretend that Tuchel was not psychologically imploding in his last 6 months with the new ownership. He spent a preseason warning he wasn’t doing any coaching because he had no time, that our transfers were rushed because his own staff was doing the scouting (always a bad idea), and we went into the season unprepared and undercoached. He got better results than the others, sure. He had some inspiring substitutes and we stole points here and there (vs West Ham and Leicester famously), but we were awful. We were playing midtable football already. And it wasn’t his fault either. He’s a great coach given little support and has had to bear the burden of nonsense from the new owners in a very direct way. FIY, we’re not attracting another Tuchel anytime soon. When Tuchel came in, he was clearly excited about the squad. First thing he did was reinstate experience, leaders and the matured players back into the team: Rüdiger, Azpi at the back, Jorginho in midfield while letting the youth handle the high press duties. An energetic team that also had the know how to execute very high level and sophisticated tactical game plans. We no longer have players with credentials, know how, experience. We have kids backing up other kids. Elite coaches know what type of the squad you need to win consistently, this Frankenstein squad isn’t that. So many of these kids are just terrible players. Brainless too. Enzo. Caicedo. Mudryk. Fofana. Jackson. Broja. Absolute shit, all of them. Hundreds of millions wasted. I just can’t move on from that. As I said in the Boro thread, in the 44 years I’ve followed Chelsea I’ve seen very poor players/teams but the vast majority of them had pride, they cared and they tried and they fought. This despicable, weak, entitled, spoilt mob can go and fuck themselves. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 8 minutes ago, Sabrina F. said: Let’s not pretend that Tuchel was not psychologically imploding in his last 6 months with the new ownership. Then you shouldn’t put him in your failure bucket. If anything he was failed. He took a failing Lampard side and turned them into CL winners, but you knew this and still decided he failed? There was other stuff going on in Tuchel’s life that is not for public consumption and the club knew this, but THEY failed him. The bloke almost single-handedly dragged us through the period of sanctions and was rewarded with what? When I think about that, then maybe these owners are getting a large dose of Karma, but we as fans get the real crap covered end of that stick - they might lose money but we lose our club’s identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrina F. Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 And my point is that ownership has failed these coaches more than coaches are failing us. Here is one example: all that money spent and we went into the season with Nico Jackson (22 years old, 1 single full season as a pro), Armando Broja (21, one PL season for Southampton, recovering from an ACL injury) and Deivid Washington (18, a few appearances for Santos in Brazil). At GK, they went for who was essentially by July Brighton’s 3rd choice GK and an MLS GK. So we rely on 21 years old, 2 PL starts Cole Palmer having to finish his chances every game. Sometimes coaches simply matter less than players, this is such a case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Frank Leboeuf: "Madueke at one point, he made the cross where we could see there was no Chelsea player in the 16-yard box. But he made it. The last time I saw that I was 14 years old in my village where you don’t know what to do with the ball so you cross it and you don’t care about it. The guy is a professional player, it means he crossed by instinct, he doesn’t know what he does, he does not inform himself on what he has to do. That is absolutely appalling." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 3 minutes ago, Sabrina F. said: And my point is that ownership has failed these coaches more than coaches are failing us. Here is one example: all that money spent and we went into the season with Nico Jackson (22 years old, 1 single full season as a pro), Armando Broja (21, one PL season for Southampton, recovering from an ACL injury) and Deivid Washington (18, a few appearances for Santos in Brazil). At GK, they went for who was essentially by July Brighton’s 3rd choice GK and an MLS GK. So we rely on 21 years old, 2 PL starts Cole Palmer having to finish his chances every game. Sometimes coaches simply matter less than players, this is such a case. And my point is that the coach went along with the stuff you mention. He’s as much at fault as the owners. He’ll have sanctioned Kepa’s loan, he’ll have thought Broja was ok as cover when even before his injury a blind man could see the folly in that. He didn’t particularly want Palmer. We’re worse because of the coach and that’s why he should go, heck he should be gone already. Don’t compound one set of mistakes with another. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 11 minutes ago, Sabrina F. said: And my point is that ownership has failed these coaches more than coaches are failing us. Here is one example: all that money spent and we went into the season with Nico Jackson (22 years old, 1 single full season as a pro), Armando Broja (21, one PL season for Southampton, recovering from an ACL injury) and Deivid Washington (18, a few appearances for Santos in Brazil). And Pochettino cheerily went along with it, saying that we had to show a pathway for Broja to get his chance. I think his desire to have a job when he must have thought with two abject failures on his CV that he'd best toe the line. Too late to complain now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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