Mauricio Pochettino leaves Chelsea by mutual consent

[Leo]

The board won't accept hiring a manager that goes against the philosophy they've tried to instil that's got us into the situation we're in. Poch is a yes man, Potter is a yes man. What the likes of Arsenal, City and Liverpool have got for them are confident outspoken ambitious managers  who have the board work for them, not the other way round.

As has been said already, I think we're stuck in mediocrity for seasons until we get lucky with recruitment, both playing and technical staff.

Edited January 10 by Leo

[ROTG]

4 hours ago, east lower said:

Conte’s personality couldn’t take this lot, although if there was a re-set and acknowledgement to get proper winners and a team that can work together and agree to do so - it might be ok, but Antonio does have a bit of a two-season limit to his employments.

Bielsa is the short term fix to see if this group of Brighton/ Southampton/Monaco level players can punch above their weight. 

Put it like this, if Bielsa cannot get a tune out of this bunch then the club will more than likely be stuck at the current level regardless of the coach. 

Also FFP will strike again with revenues decreasing.

Thank you TBSD

[xceleryx]

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

Bielsa is the short term fix to see if this group of Brighton/ Southampton/Monaco level players can punch above their weight. 

Put it like this, if Bielsa cannot get a tune out of this bunch then the club will more than likely be stuck at the current level regardless of the coach. 

Also FFP will strike again with revenues decreasing.

Thank you TBSD

The last thing our players are in need of is to be run into the ground when we're already struggling to keep enough fit as is. 

[ROTG]

26 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

The last thing our players are in need of is to be run into the ground when we're already struggling to keep enough fit as is. 

We are only playing ~45 games, therefore I don't think being run into the ground comes into the equation unless the team is full of sissy's, its about them understanding coaching and listen to a coach and implementing his ideas which would give the team an identity which you have craved for.

[xceleryx]

2 hours ago, ROTG said:

We are only playing ~45 games, therefore I don't think being run into the ground comes into the equation unless the team is full of sissy's, its about them understanding coaching and listen to a coach and implementing his ideas which would give the team an identity which you have craved for.

Looking beyond the needless sexist remark, it's not about the number of games we play but more the intensity Bielsa demands from his football. You combine that on top of the present day intensity and demand the Premier League places on players already, with our injury issues, and its the furthest thing from a recipe for success. 

The gains tactically, or what short lived identity that would be instilled and moved on from the moment he departs, don't supersede the fundamental of what his football relies most on - hard running and high intensity for long periods.

[east lower]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

Looking beyond the needless sexist remark, it's not about the number of games we play but more the intensity Bielsa demands from his football. You combine that on top of the present day intensity and demand the Premier League places on players already, with our injury issues, and its the furthest thing from a recipe for success. 

The gains tactically, or what short lived identity that would be instilled and moved on from the moment he departs, don't supersede the fundamental of what his football relies most on - hard running and high intensity for long periods.

Hard running, high levels of intensity are all part of any football team - although I take the point about a Bielsa team.  You have to be prepared to turn-over a higher proportion of players in one of his sides and in my own view that probably wouldn’t win you many PL titles as you need high-quality throughout and a high-turnover of players would cost way too much money.

You must also be mentally prepared to work hard, then work harder every game. Klopp has his self-declared ‘mentality monsters’ (that includes himself), we have ‘mentality midgets’ (that very much includes our coach).

On a football pitch, you win the right to play by out-running, out-thinking, out-tackling the opposition. Just watch how many tackles our players win, they ‘dip’ their toes into tackles - that is shameful and in my world as soon as I see a player do that, he’s off the pitch and won’t play. I’d rather have an Alfie Gilchrist (who on first viewings looks a little bit limited at first-team level, but tries his nuts off), than some tippy-tappy ‘superstar’ who shirks the nasty bits. 

Running, working, thinking and tackling/competing hard are and should be pre-requisites - the rest, tactics, patterns etc  are for the coach to dictate. Problem with the latter is our one is a midget in those respects.

I’ve said this elsewhere but basically when the going gets tough, the tough - tough it out and stay on the pitch. When the going gets tough for us over the last 2 seasons, they head for the treatment table. Players play through injuries probably at least half the time, niggles, minor knocks or conditions  - especially in ‘winning-teams’. In ‘losing-teams’ they get back/hip/groins and find a way not to play. 

There are exceptions in our squad as some appear to have chronic issues, which in itself needs a line drawn in the sand to say they stay or go. Harsh, but that’s professional football and why rewards are high.
 

 

Edited January 11 by east lower

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

Looking beyond the needless sexist remark, it's not about the number of games we play but more the intensity Bielsa demands from his football. You combine that on top of the present day intensity and demand the Premier League places on players already, with our injury issues, and its the furthest thing from a recipe for success. 

Better send this brief to Klopp, Ange, Pep, Emery

Also it the clubs fault for buying players with known injury records D. Forfana is a classics example of a player no other club would have touched with a bardge pole at 70m

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

The gains tactically, or what short lived identity that would be instilled and moved on from the moment he departs, don't supersede the fundamental of what his football relies most on - hard running and high intensity for long periods.

You have continually referenced the team having no identity, yet someone who has built teams with an identities you are saying would not last once he has gone.  

His fundamentals as you call them is exactly what the squad need to sort out the men from the boys and establish a core group. You never know Bielsa might even be able to produce a gem from the current group of lifers who could be sold for profit. His coaching managed to get Pep to cough up  45m for Kalvin Philips 👍

[ROTG]

24 minutes ago, east lower said:

Hard running, high levels of intensity are all part of any football team - although I take the point about a Bielsa team.  You have to be prepared to turn-over a higher proportion of players in one of his sides and in my own view that probably wouldn’t win you many PL titles as you need high-quality throughout and a high-turnover of players would cost way too much money.

You must also be mentally prepared to work hard, then work harder every game. Klopp has his self-declared ‘mentality monsters’ (that includes himself), we have ‘mentality midgets’ (that very much includes our coach).

On a football pitch, you win the right to play by out-running, out-thinking, out-tackling the opposition. Just watch how many tackles our players win, they ‘dip’ their toes into tackles - that is shameful and in my world as soon as I see a player do that, he’s off the pitch and won’t play. I’d rather have an Alfie Gilchrist (who on first viewings looks a little bit limited at first-team level, but tries his nuts off), than some tippy-tappy ‘superstar’ who shirks the nasty bits. 

Running, working, thinking and tackling/competing hard are and should be pre-requisites - the rest, tactics, patterns etc  are for the coach to dictate. Problem with the latter is our one is a midget in those respects.

Bielsa is not a solution for the long term. He's a shot in the arm for the squad to learn / understand work ethics and coaching and give the team some kind of identity, along with identify the dross "those who can be coached".

The man got kelvin Philips and Patrick Bamford into the England squad 😀

Alternate is Carlo Ancelotti / Steve Holland dream team as it would seems Carlo is not going to Brazil 😀

[east lower]

47 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Bielsa is not a solution for the long term. He's a shot in the arm for the squad to learn / understand work ethics and coaching and give the team some kind of identity, along with identify the dross "those who can be coached".

The man got kelvin Philips and Patrick Bamford into the England squad 😀

Alternate is Carlo Ancelotti / Steve Holland dream team as it would seems Carlo is not going to Brazil 😀

I’d go for a Bielsa/Holland team - maybe with a transition to Holland as Head Coach.

I’ve been of the opinion that Holland was the football brain behind our 2012 CL win, Di Matteo doing the emotional engagement stuff and that he’s doing the same thing with the English national team. Southgate is far from a football genius as demonstrated by his lacklustre career as a manager prior to taking the England job.
 

 

[xceleryx]

1 hour ago, east lower said:

Hard running, high levels of intensity are all part of any football team - although I take the point about a Bielsa team.  You have to be prepared to turn-over a higher proportion of players in one of his sides and in my own view that probably wouldn’t win you many PL titles as you need high-quality throughout and a high-turnover of players would cost way too much money.

You must also be mentally prepared to work hard, then work harder every game. Klopp has his self-declared ‘mentality monsters’ (that includes himself), we have ‘mentality midgets’ (that very much includes our coach).

On a football pitch, you win the right to play by out-running, out-thinking, out-tackling the opposition. Just watch how many tackles our players win, they ‘dip’ their toes into tackles - that is shameful and in my world as soon as I see a player do that, he’s off the pitch and won’t play. I’d rather have an Alfie Gilchrist (who on first viewings looks a little bit limited at first-team level, but tries his nuts off), than some tippy-tappy ‘superstar’ who shirks the nasty bits. 

Running, working, thinking and tackling/competing hard are and should be pre-requisites - the rest, tactics, patterns etc  are for the coach to dictate. Problem with the latter is our one is a midget in those respects.

I’ve said this elsewhere but basically when the going gets tough, the tough - tough it out and stay on the pitch. When the going gets tough for us over the last 2 seasons, they head for the treatment table. Players play through injuries probably at least half the time, niggles, minor knocks or conditions  - especially in ‘winning-teams’. In ‘losing-teams’ they get back/hip/groins and find a way not to play. 

There are exceptions in our squad as some appear to have chronic issues, which in itself needs a line drawn in the sand to say they stay or go. Harsh, but that’s professional football and why rewards are high.

They are desired qualities of all sides, but you also pretty much hit the nail on the head with the short falls of it. It's not a very sustainable approach, more so in what is already a more demanding league than most. 

I don't disagree with much of the rest, particularly with the mentality aspect and that hard work is going to give you an edge in a lot of cases. That being said, there's also various ways that the game itself can be played and you don't always need to "out run" your opposition either to pick up results. Of course, hard working sides generally get more leeway when things aren't going well because you can appreciate the effort shown that can look a lot better than a more methodical approach where a sense of "laziness" can be presumed. 

But yeah, I don't see a Bielsa type suits what we've got on hand currently and would just amplify other issues on hand.

[xceleryx]

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

Better send this brief to Klopp, Ange, Pep, Emery

Also it the clubs fault for buying players with known injury records D. Forfana is a classics example of a player no other club would have touched with a bardge pole at 70m

You full well know Bielsa is on another level, so don't start. 

Thankfully we didn't pay £70m for D.Fofana then isn't it. 

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

You have continually referenced the team having no identity, yet someone who has built teams with an identities you are saying would not last once he has gone.  

His fundamentals as you call them is exactly what the squad need to sort out the men from the boys and establish a core group. You never know Bielsa might even be able to produce a gem from the current group of lifers who could be sold for profit. His coaching managed to get Pep to cough up  45m for Kalvin Philips 👍

The sort of identity someone like Bielsa would provide would only last for the period he was in charge, much like the case was at Leeds and every other place he's been. There's no longer term gain beyond his tenure and therefore it's part of why he'd be a poor candidate - ignoring the fact he's currently 68 and managers Uruguay. 

It wouldn't be like what was left after JM first departed, or similarly to what Conte did at Juventus that was then built on further. Unless you hire someone like Bielsa for several years (his average time in a job is like 1.6 years), then replace him with a similar manager who'd benefit from the groundwork, you'd be wasting your time. 

[ROTG]

46 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Thankfully we didn't pay £70m for D.Fofana then isn't it. 

oops W Fofana

47 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

You full well know Bielsa is on another level, so don't start. 

Correct, however the club is no longer in a position to get a Klopp or Pep - Even the likes of Nagelsmann, Enrique and I am going to throw Ange in gave the club a huge swerve. 

[Backbiter]

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

oops W Fofana

Correct, however the club is no longer in a position to get a Klopp or Pep - Even the likes of Nagelsmann, Enrique and I am going to throw Ange in gave the club a huge swerve. 

We offered them the job?

[ROTG]

53 minutes ago, Backbiter said:

We offered them the job?

The preliminary interview with TBSD was enough for them to say thanks for the presentation and good luck with your search bye. 

On the other hand I could be completely wrong ,😃

[thevelourfog]

22 hours ago, east lower said:

Then you shouldn’t put him in your failure bucket. If anything he was failed. 

He took a failing Lampard side and turned them into CL winners, but you knew this and still decided he failed?

There was other stuff going on in Tuchel’s life that is not for public consumption and the club knew this, but THEY failed him.

The bloke almost single-handedly dragged us through the period of sanctions and was rewarded with what? When I think about that, then maybe these owners are getting a large dose of Karma, but we as fans get the real crap covered end of that stick - they might lose money but we lose our club’s identity.

QFT. These owners are getting exactly what they deserve for how badly they fucked over one of the last people at this club to have any real integrity, talent or passion for it. Never mind winning us the CL, Tuchel deserved so much better just for how he held us together in those 5 or 6 months, especially given what we now know he was going through personally. Nothing has ever set alarm bells ringing for me in football like Tuchel’s sacking 6 or 7 games into the season and the relentless, completely preposterous media briefing against him. 

I really hope he can still think fondly of Chelsea and remember the club it was, and not what it became. 

Unfortunately, we're collateral damage there.

22 hours ago, east lower said:

And my point is that the coach went along with the stuff you mention. He’s as much at fault as the owners.

This really gets to the heart of the complete futility of considering Pochettino responsible and sacking him though, doesn't it. He isn't going to be replaced by someone who doesn't go along with the owners. 

[east lower]

1 hour ago, thevelourfog said:

This really gets to the heart of the complete futility of considering Pochettino responsible and sacking him though, doesn't it. He isn't going to be replaced by someone who doesn't go along with the owners. 

I’m not one for accepting the status-quo and in our case ‘fiddling while Rome burns’.

It may be a vain hope, but I hold that if there is a solution and getting shot of someone who’s actually making a  piss-pot size scenario into something a resembling a fully-loaded cess-pit,  and his replacement somehow showing the owners there’s a different and better way, then why not advocate for it.

Maybe, the loss of such substantial sums of money may convince them to change. Perhaps the sums seem huge to me but to them they just represent ‘risk’ that they’ve mitigated elsewhere so their overall business has cover, but I can’t see a scenario where continued failure for our club works well for them.

Something has to change and something has to give.

Ideally, we’d find a new set of owners that can circumnavigate round the length of tenure conditions and remove this mob and their cronies - one out, all out scenario - that seems a dream to me so there’s going to be a fall-guy and we already know the end to that story.

It’s when, not if.

Edited January 11 by east lower

[Dwmh]

On 10/01/2024 at 22:01, east lower said:

Then you shouldn’t put him in your failure bucket. If anything he was failed. 

He took a failing Lampard side and turned them into CL winners, but you knew this and still decided he failed?

There was other stuff going on in Tuchel’s life that is not for public consumption and the club knew this, but THEY failed him.

The bloke almost single-handedly dragged us through the period of sanctions and was rewarded with what? When I think about that, then maybe these owners are getting a large dose of Karma, but we as fans get the real crap covered end of that stick - they might lose money but we lose our club’s identity.

 

TT.  I'm only vaguely aware of his problems and I'm quite sure he did not deserve the sack.
But I'm pretty sure he wanted to be available for BM just as soon as they might call.

It is wrong to say the club sacked everyone in sight, most of them jumped.  Some ran.

1 hour ago, thevelourfog said:

QFT. These owners are getting exactly what they deserve for how badly they fucked over one of the last people at this club to have any real integrity, talent or passion for it. Never mind winning us the CL, Tuchel deserved so much better just for how he held us together in those 5 or 6 months, especially given what we now know he was going through personally. Nothing has ever set alarm bells ringing for me in football like Tuchel’s sacking 6 or 7 games into the season and the relentless, completely preposterous media briefing against him. 

I really hope he can still think fondly of Chelsea and remember the club it was, and not what it became. 

Unfortunately, we're collateral damage there.

This really gets to the heart of the complete futility of considering Pochettino responsible and sacking him though, doesn't it. He isn't going to be replaced by someone who doesn't go along with the owners. 

Indeed.  The club and the fans are the spoils of war.

[ShedMiddle]

Lots of rumours floating around Flick again tonight. 

[Ham]

11 minutes ago, ShedMiddle said:

Lots of rumours floating around Flick again tonight. 

 

[east lower]

1 hour ago, Dwmh said:

TT.  I'm only vaguely aware of his problems and I'm quite sure he did not deserve the sack.
But I'm pretty sure he wanted to be available for BM just as soon as they might call.
 

It’s interesting to note that Tuchel had turned down the Bayern Munich job in either 2018 or 2019. 
 

My personal opinion is that he wanted to stay with us and was quoted as saying so, whether he meant it  - who can say, only he can.

If you take the reported reasons for the breakdown of the relationship between Tuchel and Bohely as the truth then the end was inevitable - however my belief is that Bohely probably never wanted him to stay around anyway and was making his life uncomfortable but Tuchel played the game and forced Bohely’s hand. The new owners were systematically removing any of the non-playing staff links to the RA ownership time. It’s also completely see through that Bohely and his cohorts went on a charm offensive with the media and briefed against Roman and then Tuchel.

If I were in Tuchel’s position and had looked at what’s the best job available then taking the Bayern job was a no brainer. But, like a number of other top level coaches these days they seem to have a 3 season limit to their tenures before some sort on implosion occurs.

[east lower]

13 minutes ago, Ham said:

 

Always preferred Yvette and Helga personally 😈

[Mark Kelly]

If we sack Poch and get Flick then it's one hundred percent proof that this cabal of clowns running our club have absolutely no fucking idea what they're doing . 

I did say that almost any coach would do a better job than Pochettino but not every coach and certainly not the German Southgate.

[martin1905]

52 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

If we sack Poch and get Flick then it's one hundred percent proof that this cabal of clowns running our club have absolutely no fucking idea what they're doing . 

I did say that almost any coach would do a better job than Pochettino but not every coach and certainly not the German Southgate.

Not sure mate his Bayern team were special, obviously they had the players to be special but they were one of the best teams of the modern era under him.

They are the only team to have a 100% record in the champions league and he had a 83% win ratio, which is one of the highest of all time and averaged 3 goals a game in the two seasons he was there. He won the treble with them and believe it or not it was only the second time in their history so not as easy as you'd first think.

Don't judge him on his time at Germany,  they are a mess.

He may, or may not, be ideal but he's certainly a better choice than the current clown.

[martin1905]

Interestingly he was also sporting director for the German FA for 3 years. Can't imagine many managers have that level of footballing experience and when the club is absolutely desperate for some experienced people to help run the club.........

[Bones]

Warnock would be a better manager 😂