Mauricio Pochettino leaves Chelsea by mutual consent

[boratsbrother]

8 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

Jose destroyed Mata?   Strange history you believe in.

Our player of the year two seasons running. Jose racks up, moans about Mata not working hard enough off the ball, moves him away from his best position in order to accommodate the hugely inferior Oscar. Mata is not as effective, asks for a move and is never close to being the same player ever again.

[xceleryx]

9 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Shocked that Klopp is leaving Liverpool. That being said, if they go after De Zerbi I think serious conversations need to be had about we should try to steal in ahead of them, especially if our form drops again (as I expect).

As Carragher said:

"Brighton and Hove Albion’s Roberto de Zerbi must also be on FSG’s radar. What unites the two outstanding candidates (also Xabi Alonso) is the similarity to Klopp at Borussia Dortmund – namely using the resources at their disposal to punch above their weight playing a thrilling brand of football."

De Zerbi is also perfect for our current project IMO and what Carragher mentions: "using the resources at their disposal" (i.e. the completely inadequate and inexperienced squad that our owners are dead set on giving our managers... RDZ may well make a much better go of it than Poch has).

De Zerbi still presents an element of risk, be that for Liverpool or for us. The noise around him has somewhat settled in the recent months with Brighton having managed to win only 3 of their last 15 league matches. 

Liverpool's squad is also aging and coming towards the end of a cycle, as such they're arguably still in a win now sort of phase. Would De Zerbi be the man to go not only still push for honours in the immediate short term, but then also orchestrate an inevitable rebuild with? 

Matip and VVD will both be 33 going into next season. 

Roberton will be 30 in March. 

Endo is 31 next month. 

Thiago will be 33 in April and not played in like 9 months. 

And then of course you have Salah who'll be 32 in June. 

While they do have some nice supporting pieces their core is going to need a complete overhaul in the not so distant future.

Then with respects to us it would be another reset in ways, our fourth full-time manager in the last two years - fifth in general. We're probably a better fit in terms of where we're at as a rebuilding side, but there's also a unique set of expectations that will need to be immediately met otherwise supporter displeasure will transpire as it has done with Poch at various points this season already. Then I suppose you have to question if De Zerbi is good enough to take us to that next level and compete there? 

I'm fond of De Zerbi also and naturally have known about him since his efforts with Sassuolo, and he's certainly a good manager, but equally he's no sure fire thing either. This tough spell he's going through at Brighton is arguably more defining than anything else he's done to date, so far too many dropped points and we all know if that had've happened here the pitch forks would well and truly be out. 

[Chelsea_Matt]

On 26/01/2024 at 19:38, boratsbrother said:

If you wish to see Palmer put in a transfer request then Jose will help you get your wish.

He would destroy Palmer the same way he did Mata! Rage at him if he tried a flick that didn't come off. Be more interested in him tracking back than what he does in the other half.

Honestly can't think of a worse manager to manage this young squad!

Yes, the sensitive little darlings would have to stop preening on Instagram and do some work! 

[jasonb]

On one of the predictions threads I said we would reach a cup final and finish 7th.

We finished 12th last season.

If under Poch this happens or even better would you still be for replacing him?

 

[Rob B]

3 hours ago, jasonb said:

On one of the predictions threads I said we would reach a cup final and finish 7th.

We finished 12th last season.

If under Poch this happens or even better would you still be for replacing him?

 

I wouldn’t sack him if we come 7th, personally.

Is he a coach that we can win B2B premier leagues with?  Probably not. 

But for a young group in desperate need of stability and patience, he’s a good choice.  After all, he didn’t oversee the squad composition so it’s not his fault we have a squad full of 20 year olds. 

Furthermore, finishing 7th would mean 6 teams finish above us (obvs) which if you assume four of them are City, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs, you’d have to question how much higher anyone could have got this group of players this season  (with our injuries too ).  5th or 6th at a push but that is largely our level. 

Sign a striker in the summer, a high quality LB to rival Chilwell (a la Gusto) and focus on getting the squad fully recovered from injuries and target should be Top 4. 

[Dwmh]

1 minute ago, Rob B said:

But for a young group in desperate need of stability and patience, he’s a good choice.  After all, he didn’t oversee the squad composition so it’s not his fault we have a squad full of 20 year olds. 

I'm not for Poch out, at least until we get to top 4 (which gives him 3 or 4 years minimum IMO)

But he was in charge when we put the 20 man adult squad in (sept 1st I imagine) that included 4 GKs, and 2 players out to Xmas.

I know he was appointed precisely because he had been out of a job and wouldn't challenge the board.  But failure to challenge the board then was his choice then, and of course will be his choice in Sept 2024 as well.
 

[ROTG]

14 hours ago, Dwmh said:

I know he was appointed precisely because he had been out of a job and wouldn't challenge the board.  But failure to challenge the board then was his choice then, and of course will be his choice in Sept 2024 as well.
 

Yes, he seems to have morphed in to a company man. I don't remember another coach/manager going to a team and not having a say on the playing staff.

On Poch's side should it go south, one assumes his reputation stays intact, because he can play the "that wasn't my team card``'

Edited January 29 by ROTG

[ROTG]

Just now, ROTG said:

Yes, he seems to have morphed in to a company man. I don't remember another coach/manager going to a team and not having a say on the playing staff.

Opps - I do remember another company man with zero input into the playing staff, the nobody Potter.

[ROTG]

On 27/01/2024 at 03:58, xceleryx said:

Liverpool's squad is also aging and coming towards the end of a cycle, as such they're arguably still in a win now sort of phase. Would De Zerbi be the man to go not only still push for honours in the immediate short term, but then also orchestrate an inevitable rebuild with? 

Matip and VVD will both be 33 going into next season. 

Roberton will be 30 in March. 

Endo is 31 next month. 

Thiago will be 33 in April and not played in like 9 months. 

And then of course you have Salah who'll be 32 in June. 

While they do have some nice supporting pieces their core is going to need a complete overhaul in the not so distant future.

So wrong and without substance - Average age around 24-25, the core and playing staff are there for the future

I wonder if caicedio has any regrets 

 

 

[xceleryx]

16 minutes ago, ROTG said:

So wrong and without substance - Average age around 24-25, the core and playing staff are there for the future

I wonder if caicedio has any regrets 

 

 

Honestly, I don't even care if this gets me banned it needs to be said. Not even for me but also just for the benefit of everyone else here that has to put up with your shit. 

You're a shit string prick of the highest order.

All you do is purposely twist or engineer the words of others to troll and get a reaction. And while I generally don't let bother me all too much, it's yet again become a constant problem on this new iteration of the forum. Everything is a continuously battle of nit picking and snide remarks, to the point where engaging in any sort of actual constructive conversation is down right impossible with you. One of the many prime examples being your snide little commentary about the prices of Jackson and D.Fofana yesterday, which as usual added no value to anything being discussed. In true ROTG fashion however, you couldn't resist the urge. Now here we are again.

Some basic comprehension skills quite clearly denote that I said Liverpool's core is aging - which it quite clearly fucking is. On top of recognising that they've got some good supporting pieces in place, again factual. You putting up a couple of screenshots of two different squads doesn't just magically mean Liverpool aren't going to have to do a bit of a rebuild in the not so distant future, with a new cycle being transitioned into.

I had you blocked on the odd site for this very reason but thought I'd clear slate after @My Blood Is Blue put in all the great work he did to get this place back up and running again for us all. I guess that's my bad.

Welcome back to the shit list. *spits in the holy water*

[martin1905]

15 hours ago, Rob B said:

I wouldn’t sack him if we come 7th, personally.

Is he a coach that we can win B2B premier leagues with?  Probably not. 

But for a young group in desperate need of stability and patience, he’s a good choice.  After all, he didn’t oversee the squad composition so it’s not his fault we have a squad full of 20 year olds. 

Furthermore, finishing 7th would mean 6 teams finish above us (obvs) which if you assume four of them are City, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs, you’d have to question how much higher anyone could have got this group of players this season  (with our injuries too ).  5th or 6th at a push but that is largely our level. 

Sign a striker in the summer, a high quality LB to rival Chilwell (a la Gusto) and focus on getting the squad fully recovered from injuries and target should be Top 4. 

Surprisingly no I wouldn't, regardless of where we finish this season or if we win a cup.

I've completely changed my view on us sacking him. I haven't changed my view on him but he's the perfect man for the, short term job he was employed to do. He's a very calm, positive influence and I don't think you will find a bad word said about him, from any player.

He's the perfect stop gap, yes man that the club needed. Someone that will accept everything the board is doing. Someone that will not kick off when we build a squad of kids, with no striker or rock the boat when the board sign or sell players without even speaking to him. He knows his place and that's perfect.

We will sign a striker in the summer. We will add a couple more pieces of the jigsaw to get the squad back to competeing for a top 4 place next season. It may not happen as quickly as we hope, clearly the board wanted it done in two years and then move on but it is what it is at this point. Three years instead of two might actually do us a favour, Enzo for example will be 25 at the start of the 25/26 season and would have played over 150 games for us, as long as he doesn't suffer any serious injuries. He, and many others, will be at the perfect age to take the next step in their career, normally they'd be looking to move to a big club but they'd already be at one with a good amount of time left on their contracts and a very high chance of success.

As I write this I find myself thinking not only would I not sack him I'd be thinking about a short extension. Keep him at the club for another season, after next. I'd expect the Club to be offering something like that this summer as we don't really want to be going into next season with the manager entering the last year of his contract. He definitely deserves it.

Once we get in and around the top 4, Poch has integrated these young players into the Premier league, with a couple of good cup runs, maybe even winning one, and hopefully a go at the Europa League they will be that much more experienced,  ready and hungry for a proper manager to come in and take us to the next level.

I don't like him, I don't rate him and I can't wait for him to be gone but in the meantime he's perfect.

 

[ROTG]

3 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Honestly, I don't even care if this gets me banned it needs to be said. Not even for me but also just for the benefit of everyone else here that has to put up with your shit. 

You're a shit string prick of the highest order.

All you do is purposely twist or engineer the words of others to troll and get a reaction. And while I generally don't let bother me all too much, it's yet again become a constant problem on this new iteration of the forum. Everything is a continuously battle of nit picking and snide remarks, to the point where engaging in any sort of actual constructive conversation is down right impossible with you. One of the many prime examples being your snide little commentary about the prices of Jackson and D.Fofana yesterday, which as usual added no value to anything being discussed. In true ROTG fashion however, you couldn't resist the urge. Now here we are again.

Some basic comprehension skills quite clearly denote that I said Liverpool's core is aging - which it quite clearly fucking is. On top of recognising that they've got some good supporting pieces in place, again factual. You putting up a couple of screenshots of two different squads doesn't just magically mean Liverpool aren't going to have to do a bit of a rebuild in the not so distant future, with a new cycle being transitioned into.

I had you blocked on the odd site for this very reason but thought I'd clear slate after @My Blood Is Blue put in all the great work he did to get this place back up and running again for us all. I guess that's my bad.

Welcome back to the shit list. *spits in the holy water*

Stick and stones my old china,

The dippers squad is there for all to see, except for you - As i said the next coach will tweak the squad.

For someone who constantly write chapter and verse about the wrong of the club during the RA era and now because the new light is not going as you anticipated, many of your post are almost back tracking on original statement made over the past 12 months.

BTW you keep posting about how the club needs a new identity, however you don't actual emphasise what that identity is?

One can only hope you are not banned because you are not worth a ban, just accept some of the things you write are open for questioning or should we all sing from the same hymn book on this site.

"that's my bad" - I know this is not the kings english

[Dwmh]

4 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

I don't like him, I don't rate him and I can't wait for him to be gone but in the meantime he's perfect.

True for me too, but I don't see the club turning this around in 2, 3 or even 4 years.
 

5 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Enzo for example will be 25 at the start of the 25/26 season and would have played over 150 games for us, as long as he doesn't suffer any serious injuries. He, and many others, will be at the perfect age to take the next step in their career, normally they'd be looking to move to a big club but they'd already be at one with a good amount of time left on their contracts and a very high chance of success.

Enzo will also have 4 years left on his contract.  He'll also want a doubling in wages if he is as good as you and I think.
He'll walk and we will have a nightmare on our hands.  And TB will no longer be around to take the blame.  Ditto Caicedo and anyone else worth half the price we paid.

There are a lot of interesting points in your post, but some I find difficult.
First who is responsible for the 17 man squad (+GK4, Nkunku and Fofana) when most clubs have 23-25?  How do we make sure that never gets repeated?  - it looks like the only addition this window is Nkunku, fingers crossed

And does a fund, Clearlake, that openly brags about 30% net returns (after presumably a big management fee), really consider a 4 year development plan and therefore a 5 or 6 year exit (we are already 20 months in)?  I feel sure things are much more urgent than that.

 

[Dwmh]

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

So wrong and without substance - Average age around 24-25, the core and playing staff are there for the future

I wonder if caicedio has any regrets 

 

 

How unusual.  ROTG pick up on a very specific point, directly challenges the pont and not  straw man, and provides plenty of evidence to prove it too.


It proves my own theory - the time people really get upset if you say they are wrong is when they are very wrong.

[ROTG]

34 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Surprisingly no I wouldn't, regardless of where we finish this season or if we win a cup.

I've completely changed my view on us sacking him. I haven't changed my view on him but he's the perfect man for the, short term job he was employed to do. He's a very calm, positive influence and I don't think you will find a bad word said about him, from any player.

He's the perfect stop gap, yes man that the club needed. Someone that will accept everything the board is doing. Someone that will not kick off when we build a squad of kids, with no striker or rock the boat when the board sign or sell players without even speaking to him. He knows his place and that's perfect.

We will sign a striker in the summer. We will add a couple more pieces of the jigsaw to get the squad back to competeing for a top 4 place next season. It may not happen as quickly as we hope, clearly the board wanted it done in two years and then move on but it is what it is at this point. Three years instead of two might actually do us a favour, Enzo for example will be 25 at the start of the 25/26 season and would have played over 150 games for us, as long as he doesn't suffer any serious injuries. He, and many others, will be at the perfect age to take the next step in their career, normally they'd be looking to move to a big club but they'd already be at one with a good amount of time left on their contracts and a very high chance of success.

As I write this I find myself thinking not only would I not sack him I'd be thinking about a short extension. Keep him at the club for another season, after next. I'd expect the Club to be offering something like that this summer as we don't really want to be going into next season with the manager entering the last year of his contract. He definitely deserves it.

Once we get in and around the top 4, Poch has integrated these young players into the Premier league, with a couple of good cup runs, maybe even winning one, and hopefully a go at the Europa League they will be that much more experienced,  ready and hungry for a proper manager to come in and take us to the next level.

I don't like him, I don't rate him and I can't wait for him to be gone but in the meantime he's perfect.

 

If there are any jewels in the squad they will not hang around for the evolution of the squad.  Unfortunately money, CL and careers talks along with their agents.

The club might get lucky and the squad will see out another season as a unit, however no  CL by summer 2025 or even if the club is flatlining by Jan 2025, you might see a few agents having word with TBSD and probably other clubs. A career for the top is short and the best want to be part of the CL and all the razzmatazz that comes with it, not stuck as part of a project.

Edited January 29 by ROTG

[martin1905]

24 minutes ago, ROTG said:

If there are any jewels in the squad they will not hang around for the evolution of the squad.  Unfortunately money, CL and careers talks along with their agents.

The club might get lucky and the squad will see out another season as a unit, however no  CL by summer 2025 or even if the club is flatlining by Jan 2025, you might see a few agents having word with TBSD and probably other clubs. A career for the top is shot and the best want to be part of the CL and all the razzmatazz that comes with it, not being part of a project.

Find it very difficult to believe players will want out after signing 8 year contracts, two years in.

It was pretty obvious what they were signing up to when they joined and they would have agreed to be part of the project. It was always going to take time but the potential rewards after a year or two could outweigh anything they could get elsewhere. That's the whole point it's all about two or three years time and the potential success from then on and these players signed up for that.

Players leave all the time for bigger clubs. It's never been any different so not sure I get this narrative that players will want to move to a bigger club at some point. Of course they will.

[ROTG]

11 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Find it very difficult to believe players will want out after signing 8 year contracts, two years in.

It was pretty obvious what they were signing up to when they joined and they would have agreed to be part of the project. It was always going to take time but the potential rewards after a year or two could outweigh anything they could get elsewhere. That's the whole point it's all about two or three years time and the potential success from then on and these players signed up for that.

Players leave all the time for bigger clubs. It's never been any different so not sure I get this narrative that players will want to move to a bigger club at some point. Of course they will.

A lot will be to do with the trajectory of the club. You are right that the players knew the club is a project, however it depends on what type of trajectory they were sold. 

Next season and if there is no radical trajectory then, it will be interesting to see what happens with any jewel players the club may have, with that said it would seem the PL & European clubs are tightening there belts, so you never know the foresight by the club could prove to be a winner as nobody can afford the players the club owns.

Interesting time ahead, like it has been for the past 18 odd months 😀

[Mark Kelly]

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

Stick and stones my old china,

The dippers squad is there for all to see, except for you - As i said the next coach will tweak the squad.

For someone who constantly write chapter and verse about the wrong of the club during the RA era and now because the new light is not going as you anticipated, many of your post are almost back tracking on original statement made over the past 12 months.

BTW you keep posting about how the club needs a new identity, however you don't actual emphasise what that identity is?

One can only hope you are not banned because you are not worth a ban, just accept some of the things you write are open for questioning or should we all sing from the same hymn book on this site.

"that's my bad" - I know this is not the kings english

Originally he said that Salah and Van Dyke were getting old , they're nominally their best players and in this marketplace not cheaply replaceable and he's right , the rest of them were bought from Brighton level clubs and are youngsters and we know exactly how you feel about that !😁

[paulw66]

1 hour ago, Dwmh said:

How unusual.  ROTG pick up on a very specific point, directly challenges the pont and not  straw man, and provides plenty of evidence to prove it too.


It proves my own theory - the time people really get upset if you say they are wrong is when they are very wrong.

Picking a screenshot of a team they picked at home to Norwich, in which they used two or three younger players, who wouldn't be trusted in league games, is disingenuous at best, but in reality, is nonsense in terms of proving / disproving the point that was being made. 

[Rob B]

1 hour ago, Dwmh said:

How unusual.  ROTG pick up on a very specific point, directly challenges the pont and not  straw man, and provides plenty of evidence to prove it too.


It proves my own theory - the time people really get upset if you say they are wrong is when they are very wrong.

Come on, the screenshots were of a cup side with a load of debutees. 

Starting 11 doesn't contain Salah, Matip, Thiago, Endo or Robertson.  Even TAA at 25 pushes up the average of that team. 

Make no mistake about it, a lot of Liverpool's core (Alisson, VVD, Robertson, Matip and Salah) are definitely coming to the end of a cycle and so are in a win-now phase. 

Unless they spend an awful lot of money over the next 2 years buying proven talent, they will find themselves in a similar position to us. 

[paulw66]

On 26/01/2024 at 18:57, Dwmh said:

Jose destroyed Mata?   Strange history you believe in.

How so?

2012/13, Mata scored 20 goals (and 20 assists) in 64 games playing in the 10 position.

2013/14, stuck on the right wing, got 1 in 17 before being sold.

 

[east lower]

33 minutes ago, Rob B said:

Come on, the screenshots were of a cup side with a load of debutees. 

Starting 11 doesn't contain Salah, Matip, Thiago, Endo or Robertson.  Even TAA at 25 pushes up the average of that team. 

Make no mistake about it, a lot of Liverpool's core (Alisson, VVD, Robertson, Matip and Salah) are definitely coming to the end of a cycle and so are in a win-now phase. 

Unless they spend an awful lot of money over the next 2 years buying proven talent, they will find themselves in a similar position to us. 

Klopp is smart enough to know when to get out and he can see the end of a cycle. He'll probably lose Salah's goals at the end of the season, Van-Dyke will be another year older  - you can see that time is starting to catch-up with him but he had a high-level starting point. Their midfield is a hybrid of mid-range players, who'll be great some games and less than that on a number of occasions, he's got them challenging again this season and possibly feels that's it - go out on a high similarly to SAF. A midfield of Curtis Jones and Harvey Elliott isn't winning too many PL titles,  unless Man City get relegated.

I caustically mentioned in a post elsewhere that his two assistants were also leaving with him - He'll end up at  Real Madrid, Bayern or another top European side before too long. I'd guess a year out is long enough for his 'legacy' at his current club not to be too tarnished.

[kev61]

On 26/01/2024 at 19:08, boratsbrother said:

Our player of the year two seasons running. Jose racks up, moans about Mata not working hard enough off the ball, moves him away from his best position in order to accommodate the hugely inferior Oscar. Mata is not as effective, asks for a move and is never close to being the same player ever again.

That was the last straw for me.A complete narcissist that got carried away by his own achievements 

No doubt there will be many that will defend  him.He destroyed Mata's confidence and tried the same with Joe Cole and yet.....

[ROTG]

2 hours ago, paulw66 said:

Picking a screenshot of a team they picked at home to Norwich, in which they used two or three younger players, who wouldn't be trusted in league games, is disingenuous at best, but in reality, is nonsense in terms of proving / disproving the point that was being made. 

I showed a PL team which you seemed to omitted which was a fair reflection of the squad.

 

[ROTG]

2 hours ago, Rob B said:

Come on, the screenshots were of a cup side with a load of debutees. 

Look again one of the screen shots was of there last PL outing which they won 0-4