Mauricio Pochettino leaves Chelsea by mutual consent

[paulw66]

4 minutes ago, ROTG said:

I showed a PL team 

 

Yes, and far from their regular one. 

Well done.

[My Blood Is Blue]

Message to ALL. 

Debate, banter and discussion are great and are completely what this forum is about. It would be pointless if we all just agreed, however, can we cut out the personal insults and what feels like one-upmanship going on a lot of the time. 

Also, any trolling is not wanted or needed, so if you're doing that, stop.

I and the other Mods don't want to be policing people on here, that's not what it's about, but let's just try and keep it civil, please.

Thanks!

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

Yes, and far from their regular one. 

Well done.

Well the outlook is quite rosy if the dipppers second team beats Bournemouth 0-4 and our £1/2bn squad could only draw 0-0. 
 

Happy to have a proper debate. 

[Thiago97]

5 hours ago, martin1905 said:

Surprisingly no I wouldn't, regardless of where we finish this season or if we win a cup.

I've completely changed my view on us sacking him. I haven't changed my view on him but he's the perfect man for the, short term job he was employed to do. He's a very calm, positive influence and I don't think you will find a bad word said about him, from any player.

He's the perfect stop gap, yes man that the club needed. Someone that will accept everything the board is doing. Someone that will not kick off when we build a squad of kids, with no striker or rock the boat when the board sign or sell players without even speaking to him. He knows his place and that's perfect.

We will sign a striker in the summer. We will add a couple more pieces of the jigsaw to get the squad back to competeing for a top 4 place next season. It may not happen as quickly as we hope, clearly the board wanted it done in two years and then move on but it is what it is at this point. Three years instead of two might actually do us a favour, Enzo for example will be 25 at the start of the 25/26 season and would have played over 150 games for us, as long as he doesn't suffer any serious injuries. He, and many others, will be at the perfect age to take the next step in their career, normally they'd be looking to move to a big club but they'd already be at one with a good amount of time left on their contracts and a very high chance of success.

As I write this I find myself thinking not only would I not sack him I'd be thinking about a short extension. Keep him at the club for another season, after next. I'd expect the Club to be offering something like that this summer as we don't really want to be going into next season with the manager entering the last year of his contract. He definitely deserves it.

Once we get in and around the top 4, Poch has integrated these young players into the Premier league, with a couple of good cup runs, maybe even winning one, and hopefully a go at the Europa League they will be that much more experienced,  ready and hungry for a proper manager to come in and take us to the next level.

I don't like him, I don't rate him and I can't wait for him to be gone but in the meantime he's perfect.

 

We have had many disagreements on this topic. However, I cannot disagree with much of this view really. I think the only bit we do differ on here, is that I do actually quite like him.

I posted a few weeks back, I think with the benefit of time and hindsight, we will look back on Poch time here as under appreciated. I do firmly believe this, as I think he is becoming a the perfect manager to oversee the transition across the club, with many young players who need to be in an environment that is aligned to where they are in their career development.

I probably wouldn't go as far as a contract extension right now, but I think we will reap the rewards if we see out the two years as a minimum under Poch.

Questions about him ever being the man to lead us to title glory are not something I think we need to consider right now. I have no objections with people questioning Poch suitability for this, its up to him to prove he is capable of this over the next 12-18 months when he gets a stronger group of players to work with. If we sign 2-3 experienced quality players next summer, then he has to target top4 as the minimum along the next phase of progress for him and the club.

He has kept the spirit amongst the players here very positive. We can see that by how we have managed to pull out key wins, often when things have looked like they could take a turn for the worst. The players clearly like playing for him and he has managed the whole situation well to date. That don't mean he has not got some things wrong with players , tactics etc, cos he clearly has at times. I feel he will end up playing an important part in the next 5-6 years history of the club.

[paulw66]

16 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Well the outlook is quite rosy if the dipppers second team beats Bournemouth 0-4 and our £1/2bn squad could only draw 0-0. 
 

Happy to have a proper debate. 

Using one game against Bournemouth doesn't deflect (as hard as you try) from the fact that Liverpool's best defender turns 33 in July, and his main partner Matip, is the same age.  Their best attacker turns 32 in June. Robertson is nearly 30. 

In the short to medium term, these will need replacing at some cost. Which I think was the point of the original post, which you are trying so hard to argue against (for reasons I am not sure)

[Dwmh]

2 hours ago, Thiago97 said:

He has kept the spirit amongst the players here very positive. We can see that by how we have managed to pull out key wins, often when things have looked like they could take a turn for the worst. The players clearly like playing for him and he has managed the whole situation well to date. That don't mean he has not got some things wrong with players , tactics etc, cos he clearly has at times. I feel he will end up playing an important part in the next 5-6 years history of the club.

Has he kept the spirit up?  Or is it just our £100m players have started playing like £50m ones up against £10m opponents.
Had we beaten Villa it might have been a performance.  And the 0-1 first leg loss was recent.  Neither the game nor the result mattered with a 2nd leg, but that the performance was with pretty much all the best players available I found worrying.

 

2 hours ago, paulw66 said:

Using one game against Bournemouth doesn't deflect (as hard as you try) from the fact that Liverpool's best defender turns 33 in July, and his main partner Matip, is the same age.  Their best attacker turns 32 in June. Robertson is nearly 30. 

In the short to medium term, these will need replacing at some cost. Which I think was the point of the original post, which you are trying so hard to argue against (for reasons I am not sure)

Sure these older players won't help Liverpool to be a top team in 2028.
But they do make Liverpool a top team in 2024.  For a few of us, being a top team is the best way to become a top team.  And having defenders in their early 30s is a good way to achieve that.

Some seem to think that the best way to the top of the mountain is to first descend to the bottom.  
But in football the ladders are short and the snakes long.

Anyway, you'll be happy that by next September NONE of our defenders will be in their 30s.  Not even the best one.

[ROTG]

2 hours ago, paulw66 said:

Using one game against Bournemouth doesn't deflect (as hard as you try) from the fact that Liverpool's best defender turns 33 in July, and his main partner Matip, is the same age.  Their best attacker turns 32 in June. Robertson is nearly 30. 

In the short to medium term, these will need replacing at some cost. Which I think was the point of the original post, which you are trying so hard to argue against (for reasons I am not sure)

Your are right what’s the point

our best defender is 39, allegedly we brought the next VVD,  unfortunately he was an injury prone before we brought him and is still injury prone. 

Even if salah is half as potent next season that still around 10-15 goals which is probably more than any of the current Chelsea strike force will get next season or any season. 
 

One would suspect like most normal clubs one or two will be brought in by the new coach with a view to replacing the old guard along with more minutes being given to many of the players recruited the club over the past couple of windows.
 

one thing is for sure, I doubt the dippers will fall off a cliff  like our club. 
 

I think you will find Klopp has use several iterations of players at the back, middle and front and still able to be 5 points clear of the chasing pack. 

Edited January 29 by ROTG

[paulw66]

39 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

 

 

Sure these older players won't help Liverpool to be a top team in 2028.
But they do make Liverpool a top team in 2024.  For a few of us, being a top team is the best way to become a top team.  And having defenders in their early 30s is a good way to achieve that.

 

Don't disagree with that, but it's not arguing against the point I was making 

[Thiago97]

34 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

Has he kept the spirit up?  Or is it just our £100m players have started playing like £50m ones up against £10m opponents.
Had we beaten Villa it might have been a performance.  And the 0-1 first leg loss was recent.  Neither the game nor the result mattered with a 2nd leg, but that the performance was with pretty much all the best players available I found worrying.

 

 

I believe he has kept the spirit up , compared to say a Mourinho faced with these challenges , who we both know would just lose the plot with some of the fragile and naive performances we have seen at times.

I'm not referring to the Villa or Boro cup tie specifically. I am referring to poor performances/results throughout the season, yet we have gone into big games with serious pressure mounting (Palace Home / Luton Away) recently. Poch and the players have produced a result when it matters. We have all seen examples of managers under severe pressure, including here, that once that momentum builds, it is very difficult to slow it down and stop it. So far, we have managed to do that on 3-4 occasions this season. I put that down to Poch's experience , and also his ability to manage players of this age bracket, and in such situations.

 

[My Blood Is Blue]

59 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Your are right what’s the point

our best defender is 39, allegedly we brought the next VVD,  unfortunately he was an injury prone before we brought him and is still injury prone. 

Even if salah is half as potent next season that still around 10-15 goals which is probably more than any of the current Chelsea strike force will get next season or any season. 
 

One would suspect like most normal clubs one or two will be brought in by the new coach with a view to replacing the old guard along with more minutes being given to many of the players recruited the club over the past couple of windows.
 

one thing is for sure, I doubt the dippers will fall off a cliff  like our club. 
 

I think you will find Klopp has use several iterations of players at the back, middle and front and still able to be 5 points clear of the chasing pack. 

In fairness, I can't see VVD going until he's 39 and I definitely cannot see him maintaining his levels to 39, he's already on a downward trajectory, IMO.

Salah getting 10-15 goals might not be more than what Palmer ends up with this season to be fair, but taking him out of this Liverpool team, which is quite possible in the summer, will be a massive blow - he's a game changer for them, and not too many of those around these days.

We all know how important a manager is, we've seen it first hand on too many occasions to know what a difference they can be.

Alex Ferguson won the league with Jonny Evans, Phil Jones and Chris Smalling making plenty of appearances, how did that work out for the following guy?

Whoever takes over from Klopp is going to have a really hard time maintaining the levels he has set, not all managers can get a squad to play to such a high level across the squad regardless of the abilities of all those players and not many managers can get a whole squad of players to run through brick walls for him.

My guess is Liverpool won't quite drop off a cliff, as they have enough very good players there still, but I don't see them competing for the title for at least a few years after he leaves. Hopefully!

[Dwmh]

41 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

I believe he has kept the spirit up , compared to say a Mourinho faced with these challenges , who we both know would just lose the plot with some of the fragile and naive performances we have seen at times.

Oh I certainly agree he is not a Melt Up or Melt Down manager.

42 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

I put that down to Poch's experience , and also his ability to manage players of this age bracket, and in such situations.

I put it down to his just not being that bothered if we win anything this season.  If he can stay serene as PSG fail to win Ligue One, he can smile his way through anything.

[Mark Kelly]

1 hour ago, Dwmh said:

Oh I certainly agree he is not a Melt Up or Melt Down manager.

I put it down to his just not being that bothered if we win anything this season.  If he can stay serene as PSG fail to win Ligue One, he can smile his way through anything.

There's an old adage about when people think you're stupid don't open your mouth and confirm it. 

I think that's his maxim. 

[boratsbrother]

On 28/01/2024 at 12:38, jasonb said:

On one of the predictions threads I said we would reach a cup final and finish 7th.

We finished 12th last season.

If under Poch this happens or even better would you still be for replacing him?

 

I have to admit that I never wanted him here, mainly because I thought his best days as manager were already behind him. However, I've been pleasantly surprised by how well he's doing with the job he was brought here to do. 

I honestly thought a top four challenge would be 3 seasons away, but with the level of progress being made we might well challenge for it next season.

Sadly though, a lot of our fans appear to have very little time for him and he will always be just a couple of bad results away from them wanting him out. The dislike and indifference might not be Rafa level but it's not far off. 

But its not just an issue with Poch. There's no love for our owners and no connection to this young group of players either. Put all that together and it's no wonder the  crowd support at the games is flat as a pancake😟

[Bert19]

I refuse to believe that any competent manager couldn’t have these players more organised and working harder as a bare minimum. I’ve seen more than enough - there’s no chance of us really improving under this guy.

[Mark Kelly]

17 minutes ago, Bert19 said:

I refuse to believe that any competent manager couldn’t have these players more organised and working harder as a bare minimum. I’ve seen more than enough - there’s no chance of us really improving under this guy.

Welcome to the dark side . There's three of us now .

[east lower]

11 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Welcome to the dark side . There's three of us now .

I wanna be in that gang! 

After tonight I hope that the 🐺’s are out and Flopachino is a dead 🦆.

And Wolves is the next game, it’s a sign!

[Mark Kelly]

5 minutes ago, east lower said:

I wanna be in that gang! 

After tonight I hope that the 🐺’s are out and Flopachino is a dead 🦆.

And Wolves is the next game, it’s a sign!

I already counted you lol.

[east lower]

4 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I already counted you lol.

I think @chara might be in the mix too!

 

 

Edited January 31 by east lower

[Bert19]

24 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Welcome to the dark side . There's three of us now .

I’ve been here for a while mate. 

[east lower]

Just now, Bert19 said:

I’ve been here for a while mate. 

Problem is, it’s been clear for a good while that he’s not even getting improvement out of the players. Quite the opposite for a number of them.

[Bert19]

5 minutes ago, east lower said:

Problem is, it’s been clear for a good while that he’s not even getting improvement out of the players. Quite the opposite for a number of them.

Exactly. Some (like Badiashile) look to be regressing too. 

[east lower]

7 minutes ago, Bert19 said:

Exactly. Some (like Badiashile) look to be regressing too. 

And it’s the ones regressing that he allegedly was the man to do the improving of - The younger players.

He’s sucking the confidence from the team with his lack of tactical awareness and ability to counter other coaches tactics. 

Personally, I’m not having the ‘there’s no one better out there to take the job’ argument - he’s doing more harm than good.

Of course the owners have had their part to play, they don’t set the tactics or pick the side so that debacle tonight annd others seen this season are down to the coach.

[Mark Kelly]

10 minutes ago, Bert19 said:

Exactly. Some (like Badiashile) look to be regressing too. 

I expect playing one game in six and often in a different place can do that to a player .

Like Colwill and Disasi he's not a full back .

Chilwell is but he's being played as not a winger by a coward who has two wingers and two wide forwards at his disposal but prefers a full back for "reasons" .

Whatever he's training it isn't defending or attacking or transitioning or set pieces , he's a fraud and a coward .

[Leo]

The league cup final will be the litmus test. Can we see an improvement on todays performance (it shouldn't be difficult).

[chara]

1 hour ago, east lower said:

I think @chara might be in the mix too!

 

 

Yeah,,I'm in the mix..not quite as anti as I was after "that" disgraceful presser but I really think he is only a chair warmer..able enough if you just want a lower middle level club more or less comfortable most seasons but if you have a club with ambition,  although we may question the player purchases, and huge investment then he can go if/when a REAL coach is available...but who?  

FWIW..I was out most of the day and "missed" the match today so cannot comment on the reality of the game but by the sound of it all my expected result/performance came about...that is my concern with The Poch.