Ham Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 38 minutes ago, Leo said: The league cup final will be the litmus test. Can we see an improvement on todays performance (it shouldn't be difficult). Chuk and Nkunku have given me a little confidence for the future. Jackson looked good with Nkunku pre-season. We needed an outlet tonight and it wasn't there untill the later subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My Blood Is Blue Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Hey guys, can I join your club too? Ive tried hard to back Poch and see progress, but last night sent me way over the edge the other way. He’s starting to move into Potter territory, where the longer he’s here, the more harm he’s doing to the club and these young players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 46 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said: Hey guys, can I join your club too? Ive tried hard to back Poch and see progress, but last night sent me way over the edge the other way. He’s starting to move into Potter territory, where the longer he’s here, the more harm he’s doing to the club and these young players. You're in. Individually , we are getting worse not better , he's an appalling coach , why anyone can in all honesty look at what he "achieved" at PSG with Mbappe, Messi and Neymar up front and scratch their head because he's not getting a tune out of Broja , Sterling and Mudryk is beyond me. We were second best all over the pitch yesterday , we were cheated by the officials , by design , on purpose and Pochettino is mildly put out about it , he's the problem at Chelsea , he's got no idea what he wants the players to do , how he wants them to play , how to organise them into a unit , and he couples that to a meek "happy to take part" loser mentality . Even if we had David Moyes in charge we'd be a better side and he's appalling , but seeing as he bursts the vein in his temple when the referee gives a throw in incorrectly , the cheating carried out on a regular basis by the PGMOL would soon be nipped in the bud . We got Tierney last night purely because the PGMOL knew he'd not dare rain on Jurgens funeral parade given their prior history And that fat fuck was all "maybe a penalty" he's a coward , the Yanks might as well change the badge to a white feather with that clown at the helm. Young players need leadership not meek capitulation. Get him out. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert19 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 3 hours ago, My Blood Is Blue said: Hey guys, can I join your club too? Ive tried hard to back Poch and see progress, but last night sent me way over the edge the other way. He’s starting to move into Potter territory, where the longer he’s here, the more harm he’s doing to the club and these young players. None of them look confident, many are being used away from their best positions, some play well and get moved/dropped, senior players like Sterling drop clangers all of the time and there are few, or no consequences. There are no standards in place with this man in charge. 2 hours ago, Mark Kelly said: You're in. Individually , we are getting worse not better , he's an appalling coach , why anyone can in all honesty look at what he "achieved" at PSG with Mbappe, Messi and Neymar up front and scratch their head because he's not getting a tune out of Broja , Sterling and Mudryk is beyond me. We were second best all over the pitch yesterday , we were cheated by the officials , by design , on purpose and Pochettino is mildly put out about it , he's the problem at Chelsea , he's got no idea what he wants the players to do , how he wants them to play , how to organise them into a unit , and he couples that to a meek "happy to take part" loser mentality . Even if we had David Moyes in charge we'd be a better side and he's appalling , but seeing as he bursts the vein in his temple when the referee gives a throw in incorrectly , the cheating carried out on a regular basis by the PGMOL would soon be nipped in the bud . We got Tierney last night purely because the PGMOL knew he'd not dare rain on Jurgens funeral parade given their prior history And that fat fuck was all "maybe a penalty" he's a coward , the Yanks might as well change the badge to a white feather with that clown at the helm. Young players need leadership not meek capitulation. Get him out. 1000%. Well put. 10 hours ago, east lower said: And it’s the ones regressing that he allegedly was the man to do the improving of - The younger players. He’s sucking the confidence from the team with his lack of tactical awareness and ability to counter other coaches tactics. Personally, I’m not having the ‘there’s no one better out there to take the job’ argument - he’s doing more harm than good. Of course the owners have had their part to play, they don’t set the tactics or pick the side so that debacle tonight annd others seen this season are down to the coach. Totally agree. We are miles off on almost all of the aspects that a Coach should be in control of. No identity, no shape, no organisation, no discipline, patterns of play etc. Rob Edwards, Gary O'Neil, Eddie Howe, Unai Emery, Ange Postecoglu even Sean Dyche (with an awful group and madhouse ownership at Everton) all ironed many of those aspects out in their first few months of their tenures. With less talented groups than we have. Looking at us, the players seem to have no expectations placed upon them or standards demanded. I feel for some of them, others are being allowed to hide and others don't give a shit. I genuinely can't imagine any of the better managers in the League allowing that on their training grounds, in their dressing rooms or on the pitch. Why the fuck are we waiting for it like it's some elusive dream? 10 hours ago, Leo said: The league cup final will be the litmus test. Can we see an improvement on todays performance (it shouldn't be difficult). After that last night, why would anyone want this man in charge for a final? Against the same opposition no less. The only possible chance we have is that the players are personally insulted by what happened last night and the reactions to it. But that seems highly unlikely and even then we lack the experience and leadership for them to really take ownership of the game against what is clearly a very good and in-form Liverpool team. A genuine question came into my head earlier: Given the resources available, the freedom to work starting with an almost clean slate, is there a manager in the PL doing a worse job than Pochettino ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box of Tricks Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 We're definitely in "the longer he stays, the more damage he does " territory. I agree with a lot of the above, he is actively doing us damage. There is nothing in his 'pros' column. He brings nothing to the table. In fact he's so inept, he probably hasn't even realised there is a table so he's making us eat our meals off the kitchen floor. He needs to go as soon as possible, and the people who appointed him need to be removed from the process of finding his successor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwmh Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 41 minutes ago, Bert19 said: A genuine question came into my head earlier: Given the resources available, the freedom to work starting with an almost clean slate, is there a manager in the PL doing a worse job than Pochettino ? It is 20 over 21s of which 4 are GKs, three were known to be out of contention till at least the Jan window. Not a clean slate, not even three quarters of a dirty slate. Now you can blame Poch for not quitting on Sept 1st after demanding 5 more players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin1905 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Could do with a new poll @My Blood Is Blue Much like last year, under Potter, I was given lots of abuse for calling it early, be interesting to see how many people have changed their mind now ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Just now, Dwmh said: It is 20 over 21s of which 4 are GKs, three were known to be out of contention till at least the Jan window. Not a clean slate, not even three quarters of a dirty slate. Now you can blame Poch for not quitting on Sept 1st after demanding 5 more players. A sensible man , one who hadn't built his job up as expecting to challenge for trophies would have cut his cloth accordingly . Sort out the defensive frailties , coach them as an ex centre half to be able to defend corners and free kicks. Get Caicedo and Enzo to ahem "stand in the right places" so that they're available to accept the pass from the defenders and move it forward , I've seen some shocking screen shots of previous games and particularly last nights where we have the ball in defence and Caicedo is entirely on his own facing four midfielders whilst Enzo and Gallagher are nowhere to be seen. He could perhaps instruct the forwards on where to make their runs and instruct the wide players where and how to find them he could instruct the midfielders where to move when we are in attacking phases and defending phases but he clearly isn't . The age and experience of the squad should not be used as an excuse for the pitiful organisation we are seeing on the pitch or the lack of a coherent plan or the lack of hard work or fight 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My Blood Is Blue Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 9 minutes ago, martin1905 said: Could do with a new poll @My Blood Is Blue Much like last year, under Potter, I was given lots of abuse for calling it early, be interesting to see how many people have changed their mind now ? Kept it simple this time… in or out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwmh Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Just now, Mark Kelly said: Get Caicedo and Enzo to ahem "stand in the right places" so that they're available to accept the pass from the defenders and move it forward , I've seen some shocking screen shots of previous games and particularly last nights where we have the ball in defence and Caicedo is entirely on his own facing four midfielders whilst Enzo and Gallagher are nowhere to be seen. He could perhaps instruct the forwards on where to make their runs and instruct the wide players where and how to find them he could instruct the midfielders where to move when we are in attacking phases and defending phases but he clearly isn't . The age and experience of the squad should not be used as an excuse for the pitiful organisation we are seeing on the pitch or the lack of a coherent plan or the lack of hard work or fight He would have asked for a lot more senior players than Nkunku and Disasi true. On midfield positioning, if you need a goal then Gallagher and Enzo have to get forward when we have the ball and take the risk an aggressive pressing team like Liverpool will punish us. Midfield positioning IMO is where we get it right. Support for front 3 (and front 3 support for striker) is where we get it wrong. No one is excusing Poch (not me anyway). But far far worse than Poch was the make up of the squad. It was truly suicidal, and unlike the suicidal 15/16 squad is not based around a core of players that are already ready to win the Prem. We are short half of a fist 11 and the whole of a 10 man bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin1905 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said: . Get Caicedo and Enzo to ahem "stand in the right places" so that they're available to accept the pass from the defenders and move it forward , I've seen some shocking screen shots of previous games and particularly last nights where we have the ball in defence and Caicedo is entirely on his own facing four midfielders whilst Enzo and Gallagher are nowhere to be seen. Said this months ago when Caicedo was getting some, unfair criticism. Anyone that watched him last season, I believe @Bison was in agreement with me at the time, saw a completely different player. A freak of a midfielder that could do pretty much everything, who very rarely gave the ball away. He's lost the ball so many times this season but it's not surprising when he's receiving it, under instant pressure, with no one anywhere near him for support. It's the little things like this that set alarm bells ringing in my head, very early on. Edited February 1 by martin1905 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boratsbrother Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 We're Southampton a poorly coached team under Poch? No they were not! We're Spurs a poorly coached team under Poch? Again, no they weren't! They guy has clearly proven he can coach a team well in this league and so did Potter before him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin1905 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 1 minute ago, boratsbrother said: We're Southampton a poorly coached team under Poch? No they were not! We're Spurs a poorly coached team under Poch? Again, no they weren't! They guy has clearly proven he can coach a team well in this league and so did Potter before him. His Tottenham team was the best team they have had in decades and most of their fans blame him for them failing to win anything. Brilliant when everyone is fit and in form, useless when something needs to change. Give him a really good 11 that stays fit all season and he will do OK, expect him to coach and manage a team and he will fail. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert19 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 5 minutes ago, boratsbrother said: We're Southampton a poorly coached team under Poch? No they were not! We're Spurs a poorly coached team under Poch? Again, no they weren't! They guy has clearly proven he can coach a team well in this league and so did Potter before him. Well he might like to try it with us then. Because we clearly are not well coached. I'd also point out that well as he may have coached his Spurs side, they fell in front of every single significant hurdle. So it wasn't that good was it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boratsbrother Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 8 minutes ago, Bert19 said: I'd also point out that well as he may have coached his Spurs side, they fell in front of every single significant hurdle. So it wasn't that good was it. Agree that he fell short. I've never said he's a top level manager or even wanted him here in the first place. I'm just tired of us endlessly sacking managers never giving them a few years or so to turn things around. Man Utd have been trying it for over a decade and where has it got them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin1905 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 (edited) I have said time and again, all season long, it was never about results. It was about performances. I don't think anyone would be moaning if we were seeing a team with an identity. A system, a style, a philosophy being built that, given a little time could progress and improve and we could work our way back up the table. A team full of youngsters that play high tempo, high pressing, quick, attacking football. A team full of youngsters that have potential to get better and better, which no matter what people think of them now, they all clearly do as they are so young. A well drilled, well coached team that is improving both individually and collectively. If we were seeing that and were mid table, I don't think anyone would really mind, as there would be enough hope for us to get behind, to think that in a couple of years time we could be something really special. What we have seen is the complete opposite. Unfortunately we have seen far more regression in individuals than any form of improvement. Most look shadows of the players they were before Poch came and as a team we look absolutely hopeless, Potter like with the lack of coaching and inept game management. Not even Potter like, Potter 'Lite'. Edited February 1 by martin1905 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 56 minutes ago, martin1905 said: Said this months ago when Caicedo was getting some, unfair criticism. Anyone that watched him last season, I believe @Bison was in agreement with me at the time, saw a completely different player. A freak of a midfielder that could do pretty much everything, who very rarely gave the ball away. He's lost the ball so many times this season but it's not surprising when he's receiving it, under instant pressure, with no one anywhere near him for support. It's the little things like this that set alarm bells ringing in my head, very early on. Caicedo is a quality footballer. It's very easy to see that unless you have an agenda, which most of our fans do because of how much he cost. We are a badly coached football team and he's playing with players that can't run like Enzo and others like Gallagher who have very little ability. If anything I'm surprised he's played as well as he has done all things considered. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 1 hour ago, boratsbrother said: We're Southampton a poorly coached team under Poch? No they were not! We're Spurs a poorly coached team under Poch? Again, no they weren't! They guy has clearly proven he can coach a team well in this league and so did Potter before him. Both had the same traits, namely both teams were bottlers and even when near a position where they could achieve something failed to do so. Fish rots from the head down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 1 hour ago, boratsbrother said: Agree that he fell short. I've never said he's a top level manager or even wanted him here in the first place. I'm just tired of us endlessly sacking managers never giving them a few years or so to turn things around. Man Utd have been trying it for over a decade and where has it got them? You do the right thing at the right time - That's what Leadership is about, painful as some of those decisions maybe. As an example does anyone think that Roman wanted to sack Jose - twice? Probably not in my view, but he did it because he felt he needed to for the betterment of the organisation. Keeping the wrong person in a job because you don't want to be seen to keep doing it, is weak - Just my view though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Chelsea boss Mauricio Pochettino has responded to questions over Cole Palmer's best position by insisting he simply wants him "on the pitch". When asked where he prefers to see Palmer, Pochettino responded: "I prefer him on the pitch at the moment! Imagine you are Cole Palmer and you hear your manager say this nonsence? He is playing Palmer as a striker 🤦♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwmh Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 9 minutes ago, Bones said: Chelsea boss Mauricio Pochettino has responded to questions over Cole Palmer's best position by insisting he simply wants him "on the pitch". When asked where he prefers to see Palmer, Pochettino responded: "I prefer him on the pitch at the moment! Imagine you are Cole Palmer and you hear your manager say this nonsence? He is playing Palmer as a striker 🤦♂️ I think if you are Cole Palmer and training with Broja and with Jackson away and Nkunku not fit yet, you'd be volunteering to play striker. Incidentally Cole Palmer is apparently 6'2", so just 2 cm shorter than Broja and 8 months younger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 55 minutes ago, Dwmh said: I think if you are Cole Palmer and training with Broja and with Jackson away and Nkunku not fit yet, you'd be volunteering to play striker. Incidentally Cole Palmer is apparently 6'2", so just 2 cm shorter than Broja and 8 months younger. Personally I'd want his wages as I'll be doing most of his job for him. He's a Crespo/Costa (if only in most regards) and jumps a foot below what he should do - He's not a salmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonb Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Palmer is not a No.9 he is a No.10. It is about nature not height, the way he reacts and anticipates to what happens on the pitch. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 1 hour ago, Bones said: Chelsea boss Mauricio Pochettino has responded to questions over Cole Palmer's best position by insisting he simply wants him "on the pitch". When asked where he prefers to see Palmer, Pochettino responded: "I prefer him on the pitch at the moment! I don't expect Pochettino understands the concept of "positions" to be honest 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonb Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Poch went to Anfield on the back a 5 match winning run, are we expecting too much in his first season with a very inexperienced squad ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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