Mauricio Pochettino leaves Chelsea by mutual consent

[Bert19]

27 minutes ago, jasonb said:

Poch went to Anfield on the back a 5 match winning run, are we expecting too much in his first season with a very inexperienced squad ?

I'm pretty sure the loss at Boro was less than 5 games back? 

And we've struggled to a load of single goal wins in the League since our last loss.  It's hardly been a batch of inspirational performances to be honest. 

[Dwmh]

35 minutes ago, Bert19 said:

I'm pretty sure the loss at Boro was less than 5 games back? 

And we've struggled to a load of single goal wins in the League since our last loss.  It's hardly been a batch of inspirational performances to be honest. 

True not inspirational performance.  But they do seem to have inspired a bunch on here.  I do hope they do not feel too let down.

[Gurj SS]

Watching us play (against opposition who are in the same league as us) 22 games into the season is like watching us play 2 games into the season, I understand the squad is in transition but what I don't understand is why Poch is in transition; man must have amnesia because he's acting like he has never coached in the league or at any level above the Championship. He's picking starting line-ups which don't make sense, he's then making subs to try and fix the mistake rather than add something to his tactics, and he keeps doing it over and over. If this is the type of manager we wanted, someone who doesn't have a clue but we will be willing to stick with him in hope that he one day does, then we could have just kept Potter or Frank around; honestly they probably had more potential because Poch has had zero growth in the time he has been here, actually, he hasn't had any growth since his Spurs days.

The best thing for the club would be to bring Jose back, let him go through the team with a fine comb and highlight the key areas we need to improve in order to become competitive again, if it doesn't end well then so be it, it's not like we'll be caught out by surprise, but right now we need a seriously good manager; at the moment we've got a manager who's the equivalent of a youth player making his senior step up; because the alternative is he's a senior player who got jammy when being promoted from youth level and has spent the last few years conning everyone. We've all seen players with a repuation be flops, Poch is our worst manager ever, he has no style of play, at least with someone like AVB or Scolari you could see what they were trying, yes it was bonkers at times but you could see the attempt behind trying something; with Poch there's nothing at all, there's the odd individual moment from a player but no style of play or shape to the team at all.

We are lacking quality in the squad, no doubt, but our current manager hasn't got the quality to highlight those areas, he simply doesn't know what to do. Also it's not like he has been blindsided by the club, he signed up for all this and watched the club tear chunks out of the squad and bring in lower quality players, and that's the reality of it; the majority of our signings are nowhere near the level of player they've replaced, and there's huge question marks over if they ever will be. Who has come in, started off slow, and then gone on to explode in quality? No one. Palmer is the same as when he arrived, he'd already shown he could play neat football and do some tricks at City, Nkunku is coming back from injury so he's void, Gusto was already showing flashes. Caicedo has flopped (the dynamic, energetic, strong tackling, consistent, playmaker, etc...did not arrive), for those who don't think he has flopped, what he's doing for us could have cost us at least £70M less. Enzo has gone backwards. Madueke was a bad buy. Sterling has even gone backwards, as a senior player too. Badiahile seems to be a prank played on us. Colwill has had zero development to his CB game and is never going to expand his game enough to become a FB. Mudryk wasn't great when he arrived, but even he has found space to go backwards in his development. Poch is just the wrong person for this squad, we need a strong headed manager who has a history of success, who can walk into the club and demand he's heard by showing his credentials, and it needs to happen right now.

Edited February 1 by Gurj SS

[jasonb]

5 hours ago, Bert19 said:

I'm pretty sure the loss at Boro was less than 5 games back? 

And we've struggled to a load of single goal wins in the League since our last loss.  It's hardly been a batch of inspirational performances to be honest. 

Had a look again, 3 epl wins, loss to Boro away, Beat Boro at home and drawed re Villa.

I agree performances are mixed.

I'm also on the Shed End forum most popular prediction pre-match was 3-1 to Liverpool.

Poch keeps resting players, is it the medicine men testing muscle contractions or is he trying to keep the whole squad involved?

I also agree it is frustrating we are not used to being average or C+.

[JaneB]

22 minutes ago, jasonb said:

Had a look again, 3 epl wins, loss to Boro away, Beat Boro at home and drawed re Villa.

I agree performances are mixed.

I'm also on the Shed End forum most popular prediction pre-match was 3-1 to Liverpool.

Poch keeps resting players, is it the medicine men testing muscle contractions or is he trying to keep the whole squad involved?

I also agree it is frustrating we are not used to being average or C+.

I thought you decided on your best eleven, played them and then adjusted if needs be along the way.

[jasonb]

9 minutes ago, JaneB said:

I thought you decided on your best eleven, played them and then adjusted if needs be along the way.

That used to work when football was 3pm on a Saturday, I  expect.

[JaneB]

13 minutes ago, jasonb said:

That used to work when football was 3pm on a Saturday, I  expect.

Probably.  I'm just old fashioned!!!

[Mark Kelly]

9 hours ago, JaneB said:

I thought you decided on your best eleven, played them and then adjusted if needs be along the way.

No Jane , that's what Football coaches do .

Tactical geniuses play players out of their comfort zones to get a response and rotate everyone so that nobody is worried about their place because another place and another position will soon be available regardless of form or fitness.

[ROTG]

One of the problems is our team has not necessarily been designed for Pochettino

One of many issues

 

SI PHILLIPS

1 FEB 2024

∙ PAID

 

We can debate whether Mauricio Pochettino is a good manager or not all day, but one of the issues we are seeing and has been developing all season, is that this is just not a squad that has necessarily been designed for him, and it’s showing.

Pochettino is a bit of an old school manager, he likes physical players, height, leaders, running, and nonstop intensity. When you look at this current Chelsea squad that has been designed and built by the sporting directors, it is glaringly obvious that it lacks those profiles.

Again, we can debate all day whether we need more of those profiles in this team or not, but Pochettino thinks we do. He’s literally said it publicly. And Pochettino is the manager, the one being asked to get a tune out of them.

I’ve said this many times before, but we are either backing Pochettino or we aren’t, and we need to decide what we are doing. If we are building a team without giving the manager what he is asking for, then maybe we should just move the manager on and bring one in who can perhaps be more flexible to the squad rather than needing players to play his way, or his style of football? Wouldn’t that be much smarter if the whole ‘let the sporting directors build the team’ route is the one we are going in?

I’ve said before, the route we are going should be with a head sporting director in charge of it all, one that has experience building teams and squads. Because this squad build has been naive at the very best, and mistakes have been made.

Pochettino has been crying out for the profiles that he likes and feels he needs to succeed here at Chelsea, but for whatever reason that has been ignored. I understand that the profiles and opportunities have maybe just not been available this window, but I refuse to believe that over the last two windows we could not have at least given Pochettino more of what he wants in this team - height, physicality, proven PL experience, leadership, and energy.

I will always preach balance. A team full of the above mentioned profiles is never going to be successful, nor will a team full of just technically gifted and aesthetically pleasing players. We need both. 

We lack a core of focal and tough players, especially up top. We lack a core of physicality. And we absolutely lack proven leaders. We lack players who can protect and keep hold of the ball under immense pressure. 

I think we are approaching a crossroads once again, unfortunately, and if we are continuing with our recruitment plans and strategy as we have been in the last two/three windows now, then I honestly don’t think Pochettino is the man to lead this anymore, as much as it pains me to say that.

In terms of man-management he is fantastic, and he has been great for a young group of players. None of them dislike him and there is no dressing room unrest. 

But it’s clear what kind of players he wants in his squad to succeed, and we lack them. Unless we are addressing that, which it clearly looks like we aren’t right now, then maybe we need more of a pragmatic and adaptable manager in the door?

I’m not saying that is the right thing to do by the way, I’m just saying what’s the point in keeping a manager if we are not backing them and they want specific profiles to really see the best out of them?

This is NOT me calling for Pochettino to be sacked, far from it. We are just not aligned as a club and need to pick a direction - I know what direction I would pick and what we SHOULD be going in.

Simon Phillips

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, ROTG said:

 

 

We can debate whether Mauricio Pochettino is a good manager or not all day,

He's not.

You can get on with your day now.

Joking aside , thanks for posting the article , it's good to see what the lunatic fringe ignoring all they see before them have been briefed to say in defence of an idiot. 

[ROTG]

15 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

He's not.

You can get on with your day now.

Joking aside , thanks for posting the article , it's good to see what the lunatic fringe ignoring all they see before them have been briefed to say in defence of an idiot. 

Youtube Chelsea chalk and cheese, Rory Jennings Vs Yannick "football therapy" 😀

[Dwmh]

27 minutes ago, ROTG said:

One of the problems is our team has not necessarily been designed for Pochettino

One of many issues

It hasn't been designed full stop.
And yes one of many issues, but the main football issue right now.

[Mark Kelly]

6 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

It hasn't been designed full stop.
And yes one of many issues, but the main football issue right now.

And yet it's kind of amazing or astounding even that he cannot , coach defenders to defend better , midfielders to stand in the right places or attackers to realise where they fit into things isn't it?

The only one who's performing as expected is the reserve keeper who has his own coach not part of the Fat-Mo team 

Maybe we should go out and get Mbappe , Messi and Neymar so he can "coach" them to second place? 

[boratsbrother]

Had a look at some comments by Liverpool fans about what they thought of their performance. They think they put on a "brilliant performance."

Yet here we have Chelsea fans  knocking our manager and players  for   going away to the league leaders and losing against them when they are in absolute beast form.  A game in which we still could have scored three or four ourselves.

Anyone who thinks a midtable team should do better than that is more than a bid deluded.

 

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, boratsbrother said:

Had a look at some comments by Liverpool fans about what they thought of their performance. They think they put on a "brilliant performance."

Yet here we have Chelsea fans  knocking our manager and players  for   going away to the league leaders and losing against them when they are in absolute beast form.  A game in which we still could have scored three or four ourselves.

Anyone who thinks a midtable team should do better than that is more than a bid deluded.

 

I'm Pochettino's biggest critic on here

Nobody has complained we didn't beat Liverpool

Nobody has said anything other than how brilliant Liverpool were on the night 

Some of us complained the referee wasn't even handed and as Wolves penalty from last night shows we were correct in that assumption,

We were , from the off a disorganised rabble with players with absolutely no idea how to counter the Liverpool press , as I've said countless times , our players are not the greatest side ever assemble but they are being coached by someone who has absolutely no idea what he's doing (or he's biding his time hoping for a fat pay off as our reputation would imply)

I'd love to know what you think Pochettino has brought to this side ? Organisation? Solidity? Goals? Flair? Bouncebackability? Fight? 

None of the above.

[Dwmh]

13 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Had a look at some comments by Liverpool fans about what they thought of their performance. They think they put on a "brilliant performance."

3 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Nobody has complained we didn't beat Liverpool

Mark is right.  But it certainly bears repeating that Liverpool were brilliant.  City were pretty good too.
Sorry Arsenal, but the season is returning to another of those seasons where Liverpool do amazingly and City beat them by a point.

5 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I'd love to know what you think Pochettino has brought to this side ? Organisation? Solidity? Goals? Flair? Bouncebackability? Fight? 

We need a man who won't go totally over the top and scream and shout at kids every time we lose.
We need a man that doesn't care in the way that say JM or Ian Holloway does care.

Poch is our man.

<less sarcasm than you think>

[boratsbrother]

19 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I'm Pochettino's biggest critic on here

Nobody has complained we didn't beat Liverpool

Nobody has said anything other than how brilliant Liverpool were on the night 

Some of us complained the referee wasn't even handed and as Wolves penalty from last night shows we were correct in that assumption,

We were , from the off a disorganised rabble with players with absolutely no idea how to counter the Liverpool press , as I've said countless times , our players are not the greatest side ever assemble but they are being coached by someone who has absolutely no idea what he's doing (or he's biding his time hoping for a fat pay off as our reputation would imply)

I'd love to know what you think Pochettino has brought to this side ? Organisation? Solidity? Goals? Flair? Bouncebackability? Fight? 

None of the above.

A team at the top playing at their absolute best will make any mid or lower table team look a shambles. Their high speed techincal movement with the ball and off the ball does that. It's why they are where they are and why we nowhere that level at this moment in time. We don't have players at that level! Simple as!

 

 

[boratsbrother]

16 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

 

We need a man who won't go totally over the top and scream and shout at kids every time we lose.



<less sarcasm than you think>

Absolutely bang on with that!

Accepting we were  just outclassed on the day and moving on is far better than ranting and raving at these players.  A calm head and putting our current position into perspective is what is needed and Poch is doing just that!

[flllerywhereru2]

9 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Had a look at some comments by Liverpool fans about what they thought of their performance. They think they put on a "brilliant performance."

Yet here we have Chelsea fans  knocking our manager and players  for   going away to the league leaders and losing against them when they are in absolute beast form.  A game in which we still could have scored three or four ourselves.

Anyone who thinks a midtable team should do better than that is more than a bid deluded.

 

Indeed, i doi think some of the reactions from our fans come from the fact that people are struggling to accept that we are a MID table side again. Yes its hard to take as it was engineered by outside influences a nd justified through rather flakey facts etc 

But we are now a midtable side, one look at the results/performances tells you that, we are inconsistent and we are just as likely to get a draw with a top team as lose at a bottom three these days.  We do have some players who are better than this level (Palmer, Enzo, James, Chilwell, Sterling, Silva, Nkunku) the rest are either at their level, adjusting to the league (Gusto, Badiashile, Dsasi, Jackson, Mandueke ) or they have been injured/lost form through that (Mudryk who is like werner was, Forfana for instance.

We also have players who have come from Villa, Brighton, Palace (gallagher) and may or may not have a higher level in them. Also youngsters on the verge of breaking through and could be the next john terry or perhaps the next to drop down and have perfectly respectable career lower down in the league pyramid.

The fact that this squad have to bond as a group at the same time  is an extra hurdle, in the scheme of things i think the coach is doing ok as opposed to very well. He is however an improvement on Potter who never looked like dealing with all these things at once.

 

If you take last wednesday, we didnt cope defensively, mainly the fullbacks who included Chilwell who was poor. Silva is 39 years old and still brilliant but no one else in there has his positional sense and he cant stop everything in fact his level is amazing given the responsibility on him. In midfield i like gallagher but what is his real level? Is he a palace player or that level where the occasional goal and outstanding performance v a top 4 team is enough? Or is he a chelsea squad player? or is he developing into a first on the team sheet...note not yet...

Sterling was fairly invisible the other day but what did he have up there with him? Palmer was pretty quiet for instance and mandueke out of his depth. That said the team weathered the expoected early storm and should have had a pen. Then it went downhill we shipped two soft goals (though if VAR was used properly one would be chalked off) then we get a non penalty awarded against us. So the team has had to cope with all that.

 

I actually thought the half time changes intially worked we looked brighter, but then we let yet another soft goal in. What foillowed was our best period of the match where we scored and got at liverpool and should ve had the chance to go 3-2 down and get screwed again by the VAR/ref. Heads started to drop after yet another soft goal. 

What will be the yardstick here will be the performance at wembley on the back of what had a bit of a feel of injustice to it. The players/coach have to find an antidote to a 4-1 going over, the VAR stuff and officials favouring for liverpool want change but our dealing with it and avoiding another humbling must.

 

 

 

[boratsbrother]

42 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

 

I'd love to know what you think Pochettino has brought to this side ? Organisation? Solidity? Goals? Flair? Bouncebackability? Fight? 

None of the above.

We are scoring more and causing the top teams more problems than we did last season.

At times we are playing quality football but still let down by the finishing. 

We've ground out results in games where we would have lost or drawn last season.

3-0 and being outclassed by a rampant Liverpool team, but we still scored and should have had a penalty to make it 3-2. That shows the players are  trying and playing for the manager. 

 

I keep saying it over and over, but we are still in the early stages of this complete transformation of our club and squad. It's going to take time for these players to mature into a good side and  there will be lots of ups and downs along the way.  If we are still mediocre in a couple of years, then I'll start to worry, but not before.

Edited February 2 by boratsbrother

[Gurj SS]

5 hours ago, ROTG said:

One of the problems is our team has not necessarily been designed for Pochettino

One of many issues

 

SI PHILLIPS

1 FEB 2024

∙ PAID

 

We can debate whether Mauricio Pochettino is a good manager or not all day, but one of the issues we are seeing and has been developing all season, is that this is just not a squad that has necessarily been designed for him, and it’s showing.

...

Thanks for the article. I would say he isn't a good manager, he's an average manager; his burst at Spurs was more down to other teams not performing and a burst of momentum/form at the right time, clearly it was a fluke.

However, I'd argue it was built for him, from the time it was made clear he would be manager we started seeing some very very important changes in the squad and he kept talking about the 'project', and how he was working with the club to forsee this mega project. He has had his hand in it, if I was coming into the club the first thing I would have advised is no changes take place in the first season unless I felt they really needed to take place, now I know it's not football manager, but I'm fairly sure that most Chelsea fans who have atleast been of adult age since the start of RA's era could sit down and work up where the previous squad needed improving and pick a few quality players they would like to bring in. If Poch was looking for a long-term job he should have looked on how to improve the previous squad, not decide it needed gutting, now I'm not saying we didn't have issues in that squad, but they were nowhere near the level in which they were made out to be; I think for the first time in a very long time the club was able to convince the supporters it wasn't their bad decision making with the manager choices or their treatment of particular players, but instead it was the players themselves who wanted to destroy the club. Has anyone ever seen a former player celebrate a goal? Kovacic couldn't contain his happiness. Has anyone ever seen players leave a club in a group and express their disapointment at being seperated knowing it could backfire at rival clubs? I'm not shifting the blame from the players, but these guys weren't out to exploit the club, hell they all played out of their skin and at times ability to get us a CL; and who knows when that will happen next.

I think it's time for us to get in a manager who knows how to find out if a player will ever be good enough without them having to play 15 games, yes there will be mistakes and some players will slip through, but that's football, our aim needs to be results and silverware for the club, not rotating young players in the hope they all improve at the same rate and keep their valuations. I think it's a blessing in disguise we have had so many injuries, imagine being 18 to 22 years old and sitting out games because a more expensive 18 to 22 year old is priority for marketing reasons. The squad isn't just a mess from a quality standpoint, it's a mess from an age standpoint. What makes it worse is we have a manager who simply cannot grasp any of it, struggles to make decisions, and thinks rotating players and being nice will keep him in the job; and it may, but it comes at a cost to the fans of a club which has a huge reputation of winning big; very big.

[Dwmh]

31 minutes ago, Gurj SS said:

think it's time for us to get in a manager who knows how to find out if a player will ever be good enough without them having to play 15 games,...
The squad isn't just a mess from a quality standpoint, it's a mess from an age standpoint.

Interesting ideas.  But it is quite clear that in the modern game scouting for new players (and assigning a prive/value to them) is a very specialist role and quite different from coaching the team.  Surely the roles have to be split, they have been split for a couple of decades at most clubs (SAF aside).  That doesn't mean they don't work together, much as the medical team and the coach work together.

The squad is a mess in many aspects.  It is as though we sold Kante and bought 3 ultra high energy midfielders to replace the energy (+Gallagher) but then failed to notice we had no outright CF  except Broja (Jackson and Nkunkus are stand-in CFs).

There is this algorithm problem with player selection.  My algorithm may be better than yours at identifying new players from external clubs.  But it doesn't do a good job on players in your team who have been both selected by your algorithm not mine, AND proved a success in the prem in your team.  I may not rate those players, but I'd be mad to kick them out because they don't match my algorithm.

So perhaps so many moved on because:

• they were being judged by the new algorithm and found wanting despite their record prior to 2022.
• but also maybe they were being judged purely on 22/23 perfomances when so much went wrong I believe everyone should get an amnesty (one given by all the buying clubs)
• and also i suspect most of them just wanted out at all costs and were good enough and mostly fit enouth to get offers.
   

[Bert19]

Get him out. Immediately.  And then have those two dopes in the office down the hall follow.

[Ham]

1 minute ago, Bert19 said:

Get him out. Immediately.  And then have those two dopes in the office down the hall follow.

One sacking will suffice. Too many changes at once haven't served us well lately. 

[Mark Kelly]

5 minutes ago, Bert19 said:

Get him out. Immediately.  And then have those two dopes in the office down the hall follow.

The problem is I expect the two clowns are working to a remit set down by the owners to execute their plan of buying the best young players in the market and they can point to what they did as evidence they've done so. 

Pochettino must surely have a remit to player fitness and improving them as footballers and instilling a system which suits their talents and gets the best out of them and he clearly isn't.