Mark Kelly Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 13 minutes ago, martin1905 said: And not only is he a top level manager, he's one of the greatest of all time, he's certainly our greatest ever and as much of a legend of this club than any player to ever wear the shirt. I've been told he's coming in the summer and that's why my stance has changed slightly on Pochettino. I wonder if , like you believe it's a done deal that this has filtered through to the players and Pochettino and why we now see Poch appearing even less interested than he was previously and why the players just aren't listening any more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 There’s rumours circulating this morning that the board have made the decision that he goes now. 🤞 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 14 minutes ago, east lower said: There’s rumours circulating this morning that the board have made the decision that he goes now. 🤞 It gives me no pleasure in saying so but I hope so . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin1905 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 25 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said: I wonder if , like you believe it's a done deal that this has filtered through to the players and Pochettino and why we now see Poch appearing even less interested than he was previously and why the players just aren't listening any more? I think, it definitely has but I also think they've decided to act now as Jose has said he'd come now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 3 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said: It gives me no pleasure in saying so but I hope so . There’s a ‘virus’ within the club, he’s the sneeze and cough. But nevertheless you have to rid yourself of that first to start to feel better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev61 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 36 minutes ago, martin1905 said: We all have our opinions on what's happened at the club and who's to blame. The truth is almost everyone at the club is to blame in some capacity. Bohley, Eghbali Winstanley, Stewart, Pochettino, the players and everyone in between. What we absolutely have to do though is make the immediate changes that can stop us spiralling towards relegation as make no mistake, if we continue on this trajectory we will be relegated in the next couple of seasons. It's unlikely we are sold anytime soon. Its unlikely the board all get sacked, although I would expect some changes to the structure this summer but that's not going to change the mistakes that have already been made, even if we replace the whole board or sell the club the money spent on the current squad is going to remain the biggest problem. So, you have to ask yourself what's the easiest, most effective, immediate change we can make to try and turn things round and its pretty obvious. Whether or not he's as big a problem as some, like myself think, or not is pretty irrelevant. We have to make the most of what we have, on the playing side and that means getting the best manager possible for the job. Unfortunately we are not at the level we once were or are anywhere near as attractive a proposition for any potential new manager. We've gone from Tuchel to Potter to Potterino and under normal circumstances would be looking at a mid table manager as we are now a mid table club. That is the reality. No top level manager will go anywhere near us. All except one........ And not only is he a top level manager, he's one of the greatest of all time, he's certainly our greatest ever and as much of a legend of this club than any player to ever wear the shirt. I've been told he's coming in the summer and that's why my stance has changed slightly on Pochettino. I'd rather we keep him until then and bring back the great man than sack him now, bring in Lampard and things get even worse. That would be no help to anyone. Obviously if he can be persuaded to come now then we make the change, immediately. We are very, very fortunate that we have any chance, of bringing such a manager to this football club at this time, no other mid table club would have any hope but because of his affinity with us he's willing. You can tell me he's not what he was and he's a dinosaur or whatever but think about where we are as a football club right now and tell me one manager we could bring in that is anywhere near his level. You can't. Forget all the one upmanship and who's cleverer than who on here with the petty arguments that go on. This is serious, the future of our club as we know it is at stake. Yes we could sack the board, sell the club, sell the entire squad and start again. None of that's going to happen, at least in the short term. We do have an opportunity to bring back one of the most successful managers in the history of the game, someone that loves us and will be genuinely hurting to see us where we are. Someone that knows his football and how a football club should be run and someone with a serious point to prove. It's happening, you'll see more and more people clamouring for it in the next few days, weeks, months ahead. So much so that it's only a matter of time before the fans start singing his name again. Some may argue this that and the other about why he's not the right man. I already know who's going to say what but my question to you is what's the alternative? Please enlighten me as to what we could do, who we could bring on from top to bottom that would have more of a chance than him to turn this around before it's too late? Right up there with the Gettysburg address Martin.The problem is you're clutching at straws -i can't see Hoddle returning anytime soon🤪 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev61 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 6 minutes ago, martin1905 said: I think, it definitely has but I also think they've decided to act now as Jose has said he'd come now. It will show how desperate we are and will be an admission that our masters are clueless. I want Poch gone now,but I don't want a narcissistical yesterday's man taking over. Is Guss Hindink still alive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob B Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 45 minutes ago, martin1905 said: It's happening, you'll see more and more people clamouring for it in the next few days, weeks, months ahead. So much so that it's only a matter of time before the fans start singing his name again. I absolutely LOVE Mourinho, but this would be more than a backward step IMO. Everything about his style is wrong for this squad and it will end in tears after about 12-18 months. He is divisive and will cause problems both upstairs and also with a young squad, potentially doing irreparable damage. I shudder at the thought of him trying to sell Palmer because he doesn’t track back enough for example. This would have all the hallmarks of Man United appointing him after Moyes and Van Gaal. There might be the odd trophy win but it wouldn’t do anything for us long-term. In fact, it would conclude that the Owners/SD’s definitely do not have a plan. You don’t sign the likes of Koulibaly, PEA, etc only to sack the manager, sell them, go buy a squad of 20 year olds, and hire Mourinho a season later. We are too invested in that plan now to deviate away again. Poch will go in the summer (if not before) but his replacement will need to be someone who can build, but progress us more effectively in the short-term. Mourinho will come in like a wrecking ball, catapult us up the league, win a trophy and leave in a shit-storm where we are back to square 1 with an even more unbalanced squad and the fans questioning what the strategy is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holymoly Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 35 minutes ago, east lower said: There’s rumours circulating this morning that the board have made the decision that he goes now. 🤞 There's always going to be "rumours" after these recent results. However I don't see the point of sacking the dude unless there is someone to replace him. Lampard interim again? Terry interim?? The third coming of the chosen one??? Last time it was decided the problem could be fixed by addressing player motivation. Well that was proven to be insufficient as well as impossible. The issue we have is a squad of players that are fundementally incompatible with one another. The experienced players are not leaders and the kids are on career defining contracts that are effectively jobs for life. Pity the manager that is asked to make sense of that AND motivate them while developing a winning mentality. We are in danger of becoming the next Leeds United or Blackburn Rovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 I do feel something is in the air after the game yesterday and only a matter of time till we see that ''breaking news'' banner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, Holymoly said: There's always going to be "rumours" after these recent results. However I don't see the point of sacking the dude unless there is someone to replace him. Lampard interim again? Terry interim?? The third coming of the chosen one??? Last time it was decided the problem could be fixed by addressing player motivation. Well that was proven to be insufficient as well as impossible. The issue we have is a squad of players that are fundementally incompatible with one another. The experienced players are not leaders and the kids are on career defining contracts that are effectively jobs for life. Pity the manager that is asked to make sense of that AND motivate them while developing a winning mentality. We are in danger of becoming the next Leeds United or Blackburn Rovers. I agree that part of the issue is the profile and ability (in a few cases) of the players recruited, along with the disposal of leaders. Say what some people say about Jorginho, barely plays at Arsenal but look at his attitude and performance yesterday, exemplifies leadership. A voice like that in this squad/team may have made a difference. So one of the problems is a lack of on the pitch leadership, so you look to the character of your manager/coach to literally take the lead, and I watched him yesterday and even spoke to the fella’s sat around me - in a game that may have potentially been his last he stands with his hands in his pockets, inanimate and just letting the game pass by. Classic case of the leader, not leading. Do we ‘fiddle while Rome burns’ or do decisive things like intervention by means of hoofing his useless backside out of our club. Said it yesterday buy Spurs, get Spursy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thevelourfog Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 15 minutes ago, Rob B said: I absolutely LOVE Mourinho, but this would be more than a backward step IMO. Everything about his style is wrong for this squad and it will end in tears after about 12-18 months. He is divisive and will cause problems both upstairs and also with a young squad, potentially doing irreparable damage. I shudder at the thought of him trying to sell Palmer because he doesn’t track back enough for example. This would have all the hallmarks of Man United appointing him after Moyes and Van Gaal. There might be the odd trophy win but it wouldn’t do anything for us long-term. In fact, it would conclude that the Owners/SD’s definitely do not have a plan. You don’t sign the likes of Koulibaly, PEA, etc only to sack the manager, sell them, go buy a squad of 20 year olds, and hire Mourinho a season later. We are too invested in that plan now to deviate away again. Poch will go in the summer (if not before) but his replacement will need to be someone who can build, but progress us more effectively in the short-term. Mourinho will come in like a wrecking ball, catapult us up the league, win a trophy and leave in a shit-storm where we are back to square 1 with an even more unbalanced squad and the fans questioning what the strategy is. I agree. Pochettino out and Mourinho (not just him tbf, almost any manager) would be a symptom of the disease, not treatment or a cure. But then I think we're pretty much beyond saving now, our time as a big club is over, and in that sense someone who eeks out a minor trophy or two over 18 months before exploding is probably as good as it ever gets again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thevelourfog Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 minutes ago, east lower said: I agree that part of the issue is the profile and ability (in a few cases) of the players recruited, along with the disposal of leaders. Say what some people say about Jorginho, barely plays at Arsenal but look at his attitude and performance yesterday, exemplifies leadership. A voice like that in this squad/team may have made a difference. Either wasn't spotted by many here or those who did see it didn't want to admit it, but we completely collapsed only after Jorginho was sold last season. It was a dreadful decision. He's a coach as much as anything else. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 26 minutes ago, thevelourfog said: Either wasn't spotted by many here or those who did see it didn't want to admit it, but we completely collapsed only after Jorginho was sold last season. It was a dreadful decision. He's a coach as much as anything else. I watched in a little bit of awe of his second-half performance, missed the first-half battling home from the game. He’s like a conductor of operations, prompting and prodding the other players - oh how we could do with that experience and personality now. He might even make the Enzo/Caicedo midfield function. Got to be a coach in the future. One thing did make me chuckle a little bit, he somehow found himself out on the right wing and tried to run with the ball, his heart said go then his brain and legs said no. If he had been blessed with pace, he’d be in the top 10 in the world. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwmh Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, martin1905 said: We all have our opinions on what's happened at the club and who's to blame. The truth is almost everyone at the club is to blame in some capacity. Bohley, Eghbali Winstanley, Stewart, Pochettino, the players and everyone in between. There is a longer list of key actors who have gone. We miss them as much as the replacements have been poor. I know I am alone on this, but it is the board that are under severe pressure. I'll back down on this next time I see TB smiling at the Bridge. Mourinho - precisely the wrong man. You don't give your dodgy car with a slipping clutch to Verstappen to race back into form. Not fair on the car, not fair on Verstappen. I hate to see the few players still here that I love (Gallagher, Silva, Fernandez - my choice ok!) playing in such a contorted squad. I'd hate even more to see JM involved. Pretty clear to any outside observer this is a Board problem not a manager issue. Pretty clear to any outside observer that the balance of the 23/24 squad was outrageously inexperienced and bound to cause serious issues for the manager. Change is straightforward. 53 minutes ago, Rob B said: I absolutely LOVE Mourinho, but this would be more than a backward step IMO. Everything about his style is wrong for this squad and it will end in tears after about 12-18 months. 6 months . Not divisive, and if you look at the clubs he has been at his stays are invariably amongst the longest the clubs have had for all 21st century. Imagine a Chelsea manager for 3 and a half years - even the 2 and a half year mk2 version is longer than er, everyone since Ranieri. Even at spurs or Man U most stints are shorter than JMs But he is hired for success, not when the instructions should be "Stop Digging". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwmh Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 39 minutes ago, thevelourfog said: Either wasn't spotted by many here or those who did see it didn't want to admit it, but we completely collapsed only after Jorginho was sold last season. It was a dreadful decision. He's a coach as much as anything else. Yup. 5 minutes ago, east lower said: I watched in a little bit of awe of his second-half performance, missed the first-half battling home from the game. He’s like a conductor of operations, prompting and prodding the other players - oh how we could do with that experience and personality now. He might even make the Enzo/Caicedo midfield function. Got to be a coach in the future. One thing did make me chuckle a little bit, he somehow found himself out on the right wing and tried to run with the ball, his heart said go then his brain and legs said no. If he had been blessed with pace, he’d be in the top 10 in the world. He is the coach of the past. How do you think Lampard managed with (and then without) him in the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 19 minutes ago, Dwmh said: He is the coach on the pitch That's how I see it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw66 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 hours ago, martin1905 said: I think, it definitely has but I also think they've decided to act now as Jose has said he'd come now. I was on the fence about this a couple of weeks ago. Now, not so much. Whatever one thinks about the quality of player we have now, they are definitely better than what they are showing. We are far weaker than the sum of our parts. If nothing else, bringing him home would give the whole place a lift, and would earn the new owners some much needed brownie points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw66 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, thevelourfog said: Either wasn't spotted by many here or those who did see it didn't want to admit it, but we completely collapsed only after Jorginho was sold last season. It was a dreadful decision. He's a coach as much as anything else. and Arsenal collapsed after they bought him. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarefreeMuratcan Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) We currently have stepped down from what Jorginho was giving us, but to challenge for the league we needed something more, so it was right to move him on, we just didn't have the improvement lined up. Edited February 5 by CarefreeMuratcan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thevelourfog Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 14 minutes ago, paulw66 said: and Arsenal collapsed after they bought him. Go figure. Spurious to the point of bullshit, this. Haven't you been recently arguing with DWMH that he hasn't been all that important to Arsenal at all (I'd agree)? Arsenal's "collapse" saw them finish 2nd. He started 2 league defeats, one of which was to City. We lost 5 PL games he played in before he left ... And 9 after his sale. All supports a view he hasn't been that important to Arsenal (where there is, depressingly, ample experience and leadership) and was hugely important to us. We can only dream of such an Arsenal "collapse". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw66 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 13 minutes ago, thevelourfog said: Spurious to the point of bullshit, this. Haven't you been recently arguing with DWMH that he hasn't been all that important to Arsenal at all (I'd agree)? Arsenal's "collapse" saw them finish 2nd. He started 2 league defeats, one of which was to City. We lost 5 PL games he played in before he left ... And 9 after his sale. All supports a view he hasn't been that important to Arsenal (where there is, depressingly, ample experience and leadership) and was hugely important to us. We can only dream of such an Arsenal "collapse". An oddly angry response. I was simply stating it was strange that after he joined Arsenal, they went from 8 points clear to.... not. I was also a big of his when he was here, and defended him often. Edit - Arsenal's points per game last season dropped by 38% after Jorginho signed. I am not saying he was to blame, or it was an enormous coincidence, but that is quite a collapse. Edited February 5 by paulw66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thevelourfog Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 14 minutes ago, paulw66 said: An oddly angry response. I was simply stating it was strange that after he joined Arsenal, they went from 8 points clear to.... not. I was also a big of his when he was here, and defended him often. Edit - Arsenal's points per game last season dropped by 38% after Jorginho signed. I am not saying he was to blame, or it was an enormous coincidence, but that is quite a collapse. Not angry (all my anger is busy being directed elsewhere, trust me), just pointing out that a one sentence link between Jorginho joining Arsenal and them not maintaining their start to the season is spurious. Because it is, and you acknowledge that with your edit. Clearly more going on there when you scratch the surface. It's a tangent and one of my own making so I'll wrap it up with this; he was worth more to us for 6 more months and no fee than what Arsenal offered and these owners had the smarts to appreciate, and they still don't appreciate the need for experience and leadership on the pitch. Arsenal just needed another body and went for who they could get. To my eye, they less collapsed and more regressed to the mean after a brilliant start they were always going to struggle to maintain. They look a bit more even to me this year, not the same brilliant start but consistently at a high level. Which is depressing. If there is any case in mitigation for Pochettino (I'm beyond caring if there is, we all know what will happen), then a big part of it is that he's been given literally no lieutenant type players. I look at every other PL club and I see one or two players who seem to embody what the coach says and does, who perhaps has been with them a while or at previous clubs. No one here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTG Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 45 minutes ago, paulw66 said: I was on the fence about this a couple of weeks ago. Now, not so much. Whatever one thinks about the quality of player we have now, they are definitely better than what they are showing. We are far weaker than the sum of our parts. If nothing else, bringing him home would give the whole place a lift, and would earn the new owners some much needed brownie points It's more the case of most of the players have zero miles on the PL clock and now the extreme nature of the PL beast is catching up with these players. As Poch alluded to yesterday none have played for a club like Chelsea and the expectations and have basically frozen, when you play for Brighton losing is taken with a pinch of salt because you are playing for a club that has a particular level of expectancy. Many of these players are already damaged goods and will never achieve anything at the club if you get my Jist. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw66 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 11 minutes ago, thevelourfog said: Not angry (all my anger is busy being directed elsewhere, trust me), just pointing out that a one sentence link between Jorginho joining Arsenal and them not maintaining their start to the season is spurious. Because it is, and you acknowledge that with your edit. Clearly more going on there when you scratch the surface. It's a tangent and one of my own making so I'll wrap it up with this; he was worth more to us for 6 more months and no fee than what Arsenal offered and these owners had the smarts to appreciate, and they still don't appreciate the need for experience and leadership on the pitch. Arsenal just needed another body and went for who they could get. To my eye, they less collapsed and more regressed to the mean after a brilliant start they were always going to struggle to maintain. They look a bit more even to me this year, not the same brilliant start but consistently at a high level. Which is depressing. If there is any case in mitigation for Pochettino (I'm beyond caring if there is, we all know what will happen), then a big part of it is that he's been given literally no lieutenant type players. I look at every other PL club and I see one or two players who seem to embody what the coach says and does, who perhaps has been with them a while or at previous clubs. No one here. I think I largely agree. He was of more use to us than them, ultimately. The biggest mistake they have made is leaving us with so few experienced players, and one of the few who is, is too experienced (old) Edited February 5 by paulw66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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