Max Fowler Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Interesting that Tuchel seems to be falling apart a bit at Bayern. I have defended his record here through thick and thin but it does seem like he is falling out with players again - say what you like about Poch it is quite refreshing to have a manager who you feel isn't going to throw players under the bus and fall out with them behind the scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 24 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: Interesting that Tuchel seems to be falling apart a bit at Bayern. I have defended his record here through thick and thin but it does seem like he is falling out with players again - say what you like about Poch it is quite refreshing to have a manager who you feel isn't going to throw players under the bus and fall out with them behind the scenes. That Kimmich does seem a bit of a dirtbag though. But, there's trouble'at mill - Poor old 'Arry - gone to Bayern Munich and still won f***-all. I think that there's respect lacking from that squad though. It's one thing being liked and quite another being respected as a manager. Do all the Man City players like Pep? Bet that they all respect him though, Klopp would get on my wick, with some of the stuff he gets up to, but you must respect his work ethic, enthusiasm and never say die attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 9 minutes ago, east lower said: That Kimmich does seem a bit of a dirtbag though. But, there's trouble'at mill - Poor old 'Arry - gone to Bayern Munich and still won f***-all. I think that there's respect lacking from that squad though. It's one thing being liked and quite another being respected as a manager. Do all the Man City players like Pep? Bet that they all respect him though, Klopp would get on my wick, with some of the stuff he gets up to, but you must respect his work ethic, enthusiasm and never say die attitude. Ultimately if you lose the respect of the dressing room it’s hard to turn it around and probably your responsibility. I have slaughtered Poch for Bottlejobbing it at PSG and it just doesn’t look great if Bayern fail to win a trophy let alone the league this season. I don’t think Tuchel lost it here but he rubs some up the wrong way. Klopp has more interpersonal skills despite his media tetchiness. Would love Tuchel back at some point but maybe now he needs to resurrect his career somewhere else first, preferably not in the PL though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boratsbrother Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 hour ago, Max Fowler said: say what you like about Poch it is quite refreshing to have a manager who you feel isn't going to throw players under the bus and fall out with them behind the scenes. This is why I think he's the right man for this squad at this moment in time. Someone who doesn't rant and rave ar the players after a poor performance or go OTT after every good one. A calming influence to improve them and mould them into a team. He'll reach his ceiling with them and that should be the point where we let him go and try to hire a top tier manager. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 This is where we be, after reading the predictions thread it’s not where most were predicting or wishing for:  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 hour ago, east lower said: This is where we be, after reading the predictions thread it’s not where most were predicting or wishing for:  It’s about to get worse too… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xceleryx Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 hour ago, Max Fowler said: It’s about to get worse too… That's the spirit! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 8 hours ago, xceleryx said: That's the spirit! No, that’s the fixtures 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw66 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 2 hours ago, Max Fowler said: No, that’s the fixtures 😉 Explain? We have a mixture of top and bottom teams left to play. In fact, if you take the average position of the teams from our remaining games, it is 11th Edit : we have to play the teams currently in 2,4,5,6,7,8,9,13,14,16,17,19,20 Edited February 20 by paulw66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 12 minutes ago, paulw66 said: Explain? We have a mixture of top and bottom teams left to play. In fact, if you take the average position of the teams from our remaining games, it is 11th Edit : we have to play the teams currently in 2,4,5,6,7,8,9,13,14,16,17,19,20 Our upcoming fixtures are difficult. It will get worse before it might get better. As no one acknowledges, we are in the midst of the 19th worst fixture run in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw66 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 minute ago, Max Fowler said: Our upcoming fixtures are difficult. It will get worse before it might get better. As no one acknowledges, we are in the midst of the 19th worst fixture run in the league. What? Our remaining games are against teams evenly spread across the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boratsbrother Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 We're not going to finish in the top 6 so I don't see what difference it'll make what posistion we finish in midtable this season. Next season's posistion will be a much more significant one for this squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 20 minutes ago, paulw66 said: What? Our remaining games are against teams evenly spread across the league. Sorry Paul, this shouldn't be that hard to get. Our run of 7 fixtures including Man City was the 19th worst in the league (compared to all the other teams at this moment) after that it gets easier. Looks like Spurs is postponed to April I guess so that might give some respite. Given that this squad has been proven to be heavily dependent on confidence, having a hard run of fixtures is bad news for us (even though they say we play better against big teams - we still don't win against them in the PL). By the time of the Sheffield game in April we could and very likely will find ourselves 12th, 13th or 14th - @boratsbrother may say that is insignificant but reality counts for the fans and that will be embarrassing for the entire club. Cup Final feels absolutely massive for Poch. If we win it's a real reprieve and chance for fans to celebrate him - I fancy he will be here next season whatever happens then. If we get dumped out especially playing badly, I can't see him here next season. Edited February 20 by Max Fowler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw66 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: Sorry Paul, this shouldn't be that hard to get. Our run of 7 fixtures including Man City was the 19th worst in the league Why are only 7 fixtures important? And why are you including City? We have 13 games left, evenly spread across the league. Our next 4 in the league are against 14th 8th 2nd 19th  Edit - your initial post, which started this conversation said "it's about to get worse" and now you are talking about City away, a game that has gone Edited February 20 by paulw66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Just now, paulw66 said: Why are only 7 fixtures important? And why are you including City? We have 13 games left, evenly spread across the league. Our next 4 in the league are against 14th 8th 2nd 19th Because guess what, we took 1 point against City as dictated by the fixture difficulty. You frame Brentford (A) as 14th but actually it’s historically been a very difficult fixture. Burnley is our only easy game until Sheffield. We all know we play against the same 38 fixtures Paul. The point is within the season there are easier and harder runs. We are currently in a hard run. That’s why winning against Palace was absolutely vital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boratsbrother Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 21 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: Sorry Paul, this shouldn't be that hard to get. Our run of 7 fixtures including Man City was the 19th worst in the league (compared to all the other teams at this moment) after that it gets easier. Looks like Spurs is postponed to April I guess so that might give some respite. Given that this squad has been proven to be heavily dependent on confidence, having a hard run of fixtures is bad news for us (even though they say we play better against big teams - we still don't win against them in the PL). By the time of the Sheffield game in April we could and very likely will find ourselves 12th, 13th or 14th - @boratsbrother may say that is insignificant but reality counts for the fans and that will be embarrassing for the entire club. Cup Final feels absolutely massive for Poch. If we win it's a real reprieve and chance for fans to celebrate him - I fancy he will be here next season whatever happens then. If we get dumped out especially playing badly, I can't see him here next season. Imho, quality of performances from the team and individuals are the most important thing to look for for the reat of this season, rather than results and position in the league. What we saw last Saturday for 70 mins was the most important thing to come from the day, not winning a point. If we'd played the whole game like the last 20 mins but come away with an extremely lucky win, what would that have proved? How would that be a positive indicator for next season and beyond?       Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 55 minutes ago, boratsbrother said: Imho, quality of performances from the team and individuals are the most important thing to look for for the reat of this season, rather than results and position in the league. What we saw last Saturday for 70 mins was the most important thing to come from the day, not winning a point. If we'd played the whole game like the last 20 mins but come away with an extremely lucky win, what would that have proved? How would that be a positive indicator for next season and beyond?  That may be your opinion but it’s not football reality. If we don’t win games everyone starts talking, the players’ confidence is destroyed and Poch is under immense pressure. It’s just a fact that at Chelsea you cannot go too long without winning before it’s a crisis again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTG Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 16 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: That may be your opinion but it’s not football reality. If we don’t win games everyone starts talking, the players’ confidence is destroyed and Poch is under immense pressure. It’s just a fact that at Chelsea you cannot go too long without winning before it’s a crisis again. If memory serves me, after this Sunday, the squad has one game a week until the end of the season, therefore with a squad full of so much tallent, one can expect the squad getting 25-30 points from the remaining matches 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My Blood Is Blue Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 hour ago, Max Fowler said: Because guess what, we took 1 point against City as dictated by the fixture difficulty. You frame Brentford (A) as 14th but actually it’s historically been a very difficult fixture. Burnley is our only easy game until Sheffield. We all know we play against the same 38 fixtures Paul. The point is within the season there are easier and harder runs. We are currently in a hard run. That’s why winning against Palace was absolutely vital. How does this compare to the teams in and around us? Do they have a horrible run at some point between now and the end of the season? As that will impact them as well, having this tough run of fixtures now surely means we have an easier run-in, which has to be a positive. In our final 7 games of the season, we only face 1 team from the top 4, which is Villa. Essentially Max, what you're suggesting is right, but equally, it can be flipped into a positive as well if you argue it differently. Mug half full or half empty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boratsbrother Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 29 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: That may be your opinion but it’s not football reality. If we don’t win games everyone starts talking, the players’ confidence is destroyed and Poch is under immense pressure. It’s just a fact that at Chelsea you cannot go too long without winning before it’s a crisis again.  The short term thinking approach for us worked when we had a significant financial advantage over the other clubs, along with been able to attract the elite managers in the game and having lots of high experienced, high quality players. None of that applies to the Chelsea of 2024! It's now 7 years and counting since we were involved in a title challenge, so that constant short term thinking approach clearly doesn't work for us anymore! Hasn't worked for Utd either. So we can carry on doing the thing that doesn't work or change our approach and do what needs to be done to get back up there. Looking at and judging us on the results from every few weeks is not going to get us very far! I'm 99.9% certain of that!    Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 21 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said: How does this compare to the teams in and around us? Do they have a horrible run at some point between now and the end of the season? As that will impact them as well, having this tough run of fixtures now surely means we have an easier run-in, which has to be a positive. In our final 7 games of the season, we only face 1 team from the top 4, which is Villa. Essentially Max, what you're suggesting is right, but equally, it can be flipped into a positive as well if you argue it differently. Mug half full or half empty? As I said, based on the algorithms we have the 2nd worst run of fixtures in the league in the next 7 (that was including City) From memory many of the teams above us have a far kinder run and are near the lowest upcoming fixture difficulty. Of course we have an easier end to the season, but I’m just trying to be realistic about where we will be come April. Those who are claiming we will push for Europe are wrong IMO not just because of how we are playing but because our upcoming fixtures will leave us with too much to do. Or we have to beat the top teams which we haven’t shown capable of doing in the league. Therefore the Cup is vital to salvage the season for Poch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 57 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:  The short term thinking approach for us worked when we had a significant financial advantage over the other clubs, along with been able to attract the elite managers in the game and having lots of high experienced, high quality players. None of that applies to the Chelsea of 2024! It's now 7 years and counting since we were involved in a title challenge, so that constant short term thinking approach clearly doesn't work for us anymore! Hasn't worked for Utd either. So we can carry on doing the thing that doesn't work or change our approach and do what needs to be done to get back up there. Looking at and judging us on the results from every few weeks is not going to get us very far! I'm 99.9% certain of that! I’m not even talking about my expectations. I’m just talking about the reality of how top level football works. There is a certain level of results we cannot sustain. If we win 1 of the next 5 and lose the cup Poch will be under serious pressure whether we played half decent, showed promise, looked good in moments etc or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw66 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 hour ago, My Blood Is Blue said: How does this compare to the teams in and around us? Do they have a horrible run at some point between now and the end of the season? As that will impact them as well, having this tough run of fixtures now surely means we have an easier run-in, which has to be a positive. In our final 7 games of the season, we only face 1 team from the top 4, which is Villa. Essentially Max, what you're suggesting is right, but equally, it can be flipped into a positive as well if you argue it differently. Mug half full or half empty? We will play every team twice. Same as everyone else. You're right, the fixtures in April and May look pretty gentle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boratsbrother Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 13 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: I’m not even talking about my expectations. I’m just talking about the reality of how top level football works. There is a certain level of results we cannot sustain. If we win 1 of the next 5 and lose the cup Poch will be under serious pressure whether we played half decent, showed promise, looked good in moments etc or not. Next 5 league games. Brentford A. Newcastle H. Arsenal A. Burnley H. Utd H. Imho, the only game we start clear favourites to win is the Burnley one. Very clear second favs in the Arsenal game. Second favs in the Utd game and evens for Brentford and Newcastle games.  Where we currently are we should not be surprised at all of we only win one of those games, so it would be an average return of points not a crisis. The board should not listen to media what the media says about how good or bad things are going. If the Utd board took notice they would sacked Fergie when he was under pressure when they finished 11th in his third year.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 minute ago, boratsbrother said: Next 5 league games. Brentford A. Newcastle H. Arsenal A. Burnley H. Utd H. Imho, the only game we start clear favourites to win is the Burnley one. Very clear second favs in the Arsenal game. Second favs in the Utd game and evens for Brentford and Newcastle games.  Where we currently are we should not be surprised at all of we only win one of those games, so it would be an average return of points not a crisis. The board should not listen to media what the media says about how good or bad things are going. If the Utd board took notice they would sacked Fergie when he was under pressure when they finished 11th in his third year.  At least you acknowledge our rough fixtures and likely results. Outside pressure got Potter sacked and there is a tipping point with Poch too. People say Potter got himself sacked but Poch has hardly done better, arguably worse. Fair play for recent results and performances. But if your reality is completely divorced from the 95% of Chelsea fans and media it won’t matter a jot. The board will sack Poch to save face and generate excitement. That’s why the cup feels a massive deal for him more than the club. Would be great to win but it’s his first English trophy ever? Come on. A meek 2-0 loss would be devastating for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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