Mauricio Pochettino leaves Chelsea by mutual consent

[Chelsea_Matt]

4 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

 

 

Well he’s the one who plays the cretinous waste of money that’s Caicedo. For God’s sake play Carney!!! 🤬

[east lower]

1 hour ago, chara said:

Spot on Sciatika,,, plenty of criticism,,justified,,,but little stated understanding of the why and little mention of an absolutely worldie save ...had me gasping...but what do I know?

I picked up and commented earlier, but from a keeper’s perspective - do you do your job and expect your teammates to do theirs? In this case ensure all attackers are covered or do you do what he did and take the risk?

He seemed to hang in the air for that save, the away fans are at the opposite end of the ground, so only viewed it from afar.

[Ham]

2 hours ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

Well he’s the one who plays the cretinous waste of money that’s Caicedo. For God’s sake play Carney!!! 🤬

I don't think Caicedo is a bad player by any stretch of the imagination. Quite the opposite, but be must be mentally and physically exhausted.  

Having said that I really do agree that Chuk needs a decent run in the team.   He's a class act. 

[Chelsea_Matt]

52 minutes ago, Ham said:

I don't think Caicedo is a bad player by any stretch of the imagination. Quite the opposite, but be must be mentally and physically exhausted.  

Having said that I really do agree that Chuk needs a decent run in the team.   He's a class act. 

I do. And while of course I hope I’m proved wrong, he is imo a very worrying signing.  But let’s see. With some actual coaching, you never know.

Isn’t he just! I’m a big, big fan of both Chuk and Madueke. So much talent; both of these boys are imo terrific! 👀💥 ⚽️💯🍿

[boratsbrother]

Chuck reminds me a bit of the young RLC.  Has bags of potential to be a star player for the next decade. 

Madueke I'm not so sure about. Has some takent and I like the way he is direct and prepared to run at defenders. At the moment though he wildly, wildly erratic, as shown yesterday when he scored a good goal but was absolute tripe the rest of the game.

 

Edited April 8 by boratsbrother

[chara]

3 hours ago, east lower said:

I picked up and commented earlier, but from a keeper’s perspective - do you do your job and expect your teammates to do theirs? In this case ensure all attackers are covered or do you do what he did and take the risk?

He seemed to hang in the air for that save, the away fans are at the opposite end of the ground, so only viewed it from afar.

This got "delayed" as net went down as I tried to post it!

Good points as ever...guess it comes down to balancing the two!...probably a misquote..in "the Cincinatti Kid"Edward G responds to McQueen's astonishment at being beaten by a "wrong call" or such saying "It's making the wrong call at the right time"...... win some = worldie...lose some= condemnation and scorn..as ever was for a keeper at all levels!

Marc Antony (looks wrong spelling!) got it right and for the right reasons!..

Question... for anyone not just EL...given the three keeper choices plus Kepa who would you pick ?

For me a no brainer but again..what do I know?

 

Edited April 8 by chara

[east lower]

7 minutes ago, chara said:

…….given the three keeper choices plus Kepa who would you pick ?

For me a no brainer but again..what do I know?

 

Petrovic for me, but I am concerned that by playing him whilst you know who is at the helm might just cause his confidence to drop and you’ll know better than most what that can do to a keeper longer-term.

No hiding place for a goalkeeper, unlike all other positions on the pitch in most circumstances.

[chara]

1 minute ago, east lower said:

Petrovic for me, but I am concerned that by playing him whilst you know who is at the helm might just cause his confidence to drop and you’ll know better than most what that can do to a keeper longer-term.

No hiding place for a goalkeeper, unlike all other positions on the pitch in most circumstances.

Thanks EL.... as I have posted before..my mantra for keepers...Courage Confidence Concentration..all feed off each other..... No Hiding Place indeed and the Courage bit includes the mental strength to face one's mistakes and take the goals conceded without letting it drag you down... a hard earned attribute I can attest to!

I probably asked you this before but how vocal is Petr?...I always consider the keeper the one who should be able to see everything building up and "guide" the defence as needed,,,difficult maybe with crowd noise and although I never played in front of huge crowds on smaller grounds it can still be a bit noisy but players still comminicated,,which leads I guess to the wider question,,,how vocal are the rest of the players from your standpoint?

[east lower]

6 hours ago, Bison said:

Explains a lot. 

What the hell is he trying to talk about? 

He was better off pretending he couldn’t speak English at all, such as in his time at Southampton - Possibly where he achieved the most, perhaps there’s a hint there for him.

[east lower]

1 minute ago, chara said:

Thanks EL.... as I have posted before..my mantra for keepers...Courage Confidence Concentration..all feed off each other..... No Hiding Place indeed and the Courage bit includes the mental strength to face one's mistakes and take the goals conceded without letting it drag you down... a hard earned attribute I can attest to!

I probably asked you this before but how vocal is Petr?...I always consider the keeper the one who should be able to see everything building up and "guide" the defence as needed,,,difficult maybe with crowd noise and although I never played in front of huge crowds on smaller grounds it can still be a bit noisy but players still comminicated,,which leads I guess to the wider question,,,how vocal are the rest of the players from your standpoint?

You can hear him, mostly when he’s trying to get the back line up and out or occasionally when the defence have passed themselves into a corner of the pitch and he gets the obligatory ‘away’ call in. Not too much when he comes for the ball.

Looks ok on his decision making as a sweeper-keeper also.

Just my view, but he’s no Cech or Courtois  - Competent and capable. I’d flog or probably give away Kepa (buy him out, if all else fails), he made his choice. Sell Sanchez and use Bettenelli plus either Slonina or one of the younger keepers as cover.

There are far more urgent areas on the pitch requiring attention than the goalkeeper.

[Box of Tricks]

47 minutes ago, east lower said:

What the hell is he trying to talk about? 

He was better off pretending he couldn’t speak English at all, such as in his time at Southampton - Possibly where he achieved the most, perhaps there’s a hint there for him.

Starting to think this guy did all the philosophy, formations and style of play talk.

[xceleryx]

13 hours ago, east lower said:

And why is that? We've looked far worse defensively since the owners appointed this fella - and I'm not going to refer to him in footballing terms - coach/manager etc because he does none of those things.

Get Disasi to man mark Burnie perhaps? Difficult stuff that - But it takes leadership. Look at the quote below, 9 months in and you're still learning about profiles, give me strength. If he needed some 'men' then he should have been banging dear Todd's, Lawrence or Winstanley - or any other person in the gravy-train that would get him some defenders who can defend.

Let's change things and put on the big-blokes with two minutes to go defending a free-kick - Genius move that.

But let's also remember, we were playing the worst team in the league yesterday - "How s**t must you be it's only 1-0", that's their fans singing that to us! And that, having nearly lost to a 10-man second worst team in the league at home a week earlier.

Petrovic looks a decent keeper, but he playing in front of a disorganised mess that changes every week. The fella who spotted Petrovic straying off his post, shouldn't have been able to get himself into that position. Stop the cross, stop the goal - But that's old-school thinking?

He's a fraud, the owners plans are flawed and the rest of us are ignored, whilst our opponents applaud (our demise) - Almost John Cooper Clarke like.

I really cannot verbalise how strongly I feel about this idiot and how he should be nowhere near our football team - Well I can but it'll get me banned.

We've looked worse because of a myriad of factors. We're a new team, a young team, the second shortest in the league which has compounded our set piece match ups and general defending the high ball, riddled with injuries to several that would be first choice options - a couple being in defence, and of course a 39 year old Thiago Silva that has probably, and understandably, lost that step he had 2-3 years ago. 

Not excusing that there hasn't been coaching factors which Poch needs to take accountability for, but anyone thinking it's a matter of simply changing the manager and everything will suddenly improve are ignoring the wider picture here. A new manager isn't' going to make Petrovic's decision making better, isn't going to stop Thiago Silva making blind back passes, or help Caicedo make a basic 3 yard pass that most players at grassroots level would be capable of making. 

The sheer amount of simplistic individual errors that we've served up this season has been unparalleled. These fall at the hands of the individual player, and it's their responsibility to improve on these fundamentals. No amount of coaching is going to rectify these sorts of things. Developing players are just that, developing. Bad players are just that, bad players. And so on. Not as if peak Mourinho was able to turn players like Del Horno or Boulahrouz into dependable options or eradicate their mistakes. 

Developing sides have teething issues, and like it or not that's exactly what we are right now. 

[xceleryx]

9 hours ago, Bison said:

Explains a lot. 

I'll preface this with stating that I ultimately don't care if Poch is manager or not. 

However, this feels like it's taken a little out of context just to hammer home the incompetence factor surrounding Pochettino at present. 

He is actually right in what he's saying to a degree. As a player you want to feel like the manager has your back and is doing their best for you. That gives you reassurance, it provides confidence, and helps remove any sort of lingering doubt and alike. In my youth I played sport to a representative level, along with doing some coaching, and it's nice as a player knowing you can just focus on doing your job and playing to the best of ones abilities.

While tactics and philosophy have merit, both can also mean completely nothing if your players don't feel that they're being looked after. That's when motivation drops, when attitudes sour, confidence declines, and your start to question things more. No amount of tactics or what have you can bring back a fractured group of various personalities. 

The one area I've felt Poch has actually deserved praise for has been with how he's managed to keep the moral within the squad pretty level, despite the up and down nature of our performances and results. There's been several points over the season where it would've been quite easy for the playing group to drop their heads, sour, or tune out altogether, but they've continued to remain on a pretty even deal keel throughout.  That show me some fairly solid man management and personal qualities, something a lot of other "better managers" lack who are more known for their tactics or style.

[MickyDroy]

5 hours ago, xceleryx said:

A new manager isn't' going to make Petrovic's decision making better, isn't going to stop Thiago Silva making blind back passes, or help Caicedo make a basic 3 yard pass that most players at grassroots level would be capable of making. 

The sheer amount of simplistic individual errors that we've served up this season has been unparalleled. These fall at the hands of the individual player, and it's their responsibility to improve on these fundamentals. No amount of coaching is going to rectify these sorts of things

I can't agree with this.

I am of the opinion that chaos breeds chaos and that's what we've seen this season. We are completely unorganized which for me is unforgiveable 10 months into the job. There's space everywhere for our opponents, there is no structure to our build-up or defensive shape and players are confused.

We've seen this before under Lampard. Rudiger, Christensen, Jorginho and others looked like complete jokers dropping clangers every week only for Tuchel to change all that when he came in and put a proper structure in place in all areas of the pitch.

I am not advocating for appointing him but I fully believe that if we hired Sean Dyche lets say we'd see individual mistakes drop by a massive amount. Not a flashy manager at all but he can organize a midfield and a defense and had we hired him I do believe Caicedo, Enzo, Disasi, Badiashile and the others would look like competent players again in an instant.

[Chelsea_Matt]

1 hour ago, MickyDroy said:

I can't agree with this.

I am of the opinion that chaos breeds chaos and that's what we've seen this season. We are completely unorganized which for me is unforgiveable 10 months into the job. There's space everywhere for our opponents, there is no structure to our build-up or defensive shape and players are confused.

We've seen this before under Lampard. Rudiger, Christensen, Jorginho and others looked like complete jokers dropping clangers every week only for Tuchel to change all that when he came in and put a proper structure in place in all areas of the pitch.

I am not advocating for appointing him but I fully believe that if we hired Sean Dyche lets say we'd see individual mistakes drop by a massive amount. Not a flashy manager at all but he can organize a midfield and a defense and had we hired him I do believe Caicedo, Enzo, Disasi, Badiashile and the others would look like competent players again in an instant.

I think even David Moyes - who is a well-respected COACH - would do better than Poch. I don’t necessarily want Moyes. But to your point, a proper coach would improve us instantly imo. 

[east lower]

6 hours ago, xceleryx said:

We've looked worse because of a myriad of factors. We're a new team, a young team, the second shortest in the league which has compounded our set piece match ups and general defending the high ball, riddled with injuries to several that would be first choice options - a couple being in defence, and of course a 39 year old Thiago Silva that has probably, and understandably, lost that step he had 2-3 years ago. 

Not excusing that there hasn't been coaching factors which Poch needs to take accountability for, but anyone thinking it's a matter of simply changing the manager and everything will suddenly improve are ignoring the wider picture here. A new manager isn't' going to make Petrovic's decision making better, isn't going to stop Thiago Silva making blind back passes, or help Caicedo make a basic 3 yard pass that most players at grassroots level would be capable of making. 

The sheer amount of simplistic individual errors that we've served up this season has been unparalleled. These fall at the hands of the individual player, and it's their responsibility to improve on these fundamentals. No amount of coaching is going to rectify these sorts of things. Developing players are just that, developing. Bad players are just that, bad players. And so on. Not as if peak Mourinho was able to turn players like Del Horno or Boulahrouz into dependable options or eradicate their mistakes. 

Developing sides have teething issues, and like it or not that's exactly what we are right now. 

And who are responsible for recruiting the players that are the 2nd shortest team in the PL? Who’s in charge of team selection. 

The answers all point back to incompetence in recruitment, selection and tactics.

The man in charge of coaching the team with his nurturing first, tactical matters some way down the line of importance philosophy has made things way worse.

Did Caicedo make the number of errors he has for us, for Brighton? Did Enzo for Benfica or when winning the World Cup? Did Disasi or Badiashile for Monaco?  Heck did Tiago Silva make as many for us under Lampard, Tuchel, Potter? In defence of both Caicedo and Fernandez, when they look up, who have they got to pass to in front of them? It’s a tactical mess of unparalleled proportions, AVB’s sides were better prepared. Di Matteo, who wasn’t a great coach at least had the side organised. He did the ‘hearts and mind's’ thing perfectly, but without the tactical acumen that is also required, it only works for so long in professional football.

There’s invariably a Del Horno or Calvin Phillips bought, no one’s immune from a signing that doesn’t work out.

This lot, thus far have abused the privilege.

£215 million pounds on Caicedo and Fernandez, let that sink in a bit and then look at their performances against Burnley, Sheffield Utd - the two worst sides in the league by a distance. Two very different sides in the way they play. Man Utd, neither covered themselves in glory, Fernandez acceptable without brilliance. Buying Lavia injured. It’s gross negligence and betting on Betamax when the world went VHS. No one is playing consistently with two midfielders both below 6ft. Liverpool occasionally are forced to but cover it with giants elsewhere in the team.

Process, Plan, Developing - Rome is burning and unless there’s an emergence of a rescue plan as a matter of the utmost priority - then Todd and Eggy and their fiddles will be burning us all with it, whilst they lick their financial wounds and meander off into their American sunsets.

[xceleryx]

2 hours ago, MickyDroy said:

I can't agree with this.

I am of the opinion that chaos breeds chaos and that's what we've seen this season. We are completely unorganized which for me is unforgiveable 10 months into the job. There's space everywhere for our opponents, there is no structure to our build-up or defensive shape and players are confused.

We've seen this before under Lampard. Rudiger, Christensen, Jorginho and others looked like complete jokers dropping clangers every week only for Tuchel to change all that when he came in and put a proper structure in place in all areas of the pitch.

I am not advocating for appointing him but I fully believe that if we hired Sean Dyche lets say we'd see individual mistakes drop by a massive amount. Not a flashy manager at all but he can organize a midfield and a defense and had we hired him I do believe Caicedo, Enzo, Disasi, Badiashile and the others would look like competent players again in an instant.

I don't necessarily disagree. Playing football that's a little more off the cuff so to speak isn't necessarily going to be seamless. When it works the unpredictability can create a real problem, but admittedly it does allow for more erratic performances when things aren't going well. The perfect middle ground is a balance between a solid tactical structure/plan and room for an individual component of playing on the fly. 

While more structure can reduce errors, when I look at a lot of the errors we make they aren't really born out of our more chaotic nature. Instead, it literally is lapses and basic individual mistakes while executing a lot of basic fundamental aspects. Mistakes of that variety are likely to happen regardless, which includes even under a more structured manager. 

Again, I'm not particularly bothered if Poch is here next season or not and he was never my first choice candidate, but he's also not the worse option we could've turned to either. I'll guess we'll see come the summer if we stick or twist.

[xceleryx]

38 minutes ago, east lower said:

And who are responsible for recruiting the players that are the 2nd shortest team in the PL? Who’s in charge of team selection. 

The answers all point back to incompetence in recruitment, selection and tactics.

The man in charge of coaching the team with his nurturing first, tactical matters some way down the line of importance philosophy has made things way worse.

Did Caicedo make the number of errors he has for us, for Brighton? Did Enzo for Benfica or when winning the World Cup? Did Disasi or Badiashile for Monaco?  Heck did Tiago Silva make as many for us under Lampard, Tuchel, Potter? In defence of both Caicedo and Fernandez, when they look up, who have they got to pass to in front of them? It’s a tactical mess of unparalleled proportions, AVB’s sides were better prepared. Di Matteo, who wasn’t a great coach at least had the side organised. He did the ‘hearts and mind's’ thing perfectly, but without the tactical acumen that is also required, it only works for so long in professional football.

There’s invariably a Del Horno or Calvin Phillips bought, no one’s immune from a signing that doesn’t work out.

This lot, thus far have abused the privilege.

£215 million pounds on Caicedo and Fernandez, let that sink in a bit and then look at their performances against Burnley, Sheffield Utd - the two worst sides in the league by a distance. Two very different sides in the way they play. Man Utd, neither covered themselves in glory, Fernandez acceptable without brilliance. Buying Lavia injured. It’s gross negligence and betting on Betamax when the world went VHS. No one is playing consistently with two midfielders both below 6ft. Liverpool occasionally are forced to but cover it with giants elsewhere in the team.

Process, Plan, Developing - Rome is burning and unless there’s an emergence of a rescue plan as a matter of the utmost priority - then Todd and Eggy and their fiddles will be burning us all with it, whilst they lick their financial wounds and meander off into their American sunsets.

And what part of a project do people not quite grasp here? Not saying there hasn't been an oversight in certain areas with respects to recruitment but every facet of a project isn't going to be solved all at once. We're still quite capable of amending these areas of need and adding to the nucleus we've opted to assemble first. 

Players perform different in different environments. There's absolutely room for us to improve tactically and I've said this in the past, so I'm not absolving Poch from responsibility or anything alike. However, the crux is that we're a very young team without much genuine leadership, so even if we've added players who've performed well individually at other clubs they aren't necessarily joining a club with the same sort of surrounding current day ability. Maybe in the next couple of years some of these guys will take strides forward to where they are good players, but not all of them are there yet and that shows in our inconsistency. 

This summer is a big one, it's a chance to amend some key areas of need. We'll have gotten a full season into some of those that are here right now, many of which will be better for. There's some that will be fighting for their futures, some that need to step up, and so on. Rome wasn't build in a day, but this side as it stands has been together for not even 12 months yet. With several key pieces not having been able to play due to injury. Get them fit (hopefully), add where we need, and we could genuinely see strides forward being taken. 

Granted, there's a big "if" surrounding the work we'll do in the market.

[Bert19]

12 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

Chuck reminds me a bit of the young RLC.  Has bags of potential to be a star player for the next decade. 

Madueke I'm not so sure about. Has some takent and I like the way he is direct and prepared to run at defenders. At the moment though he wildly, wildly erratic, as shown yesterday when he scored a good goal but was absolute tripe the rest of the game.

 

Proper old-school winger! 😁

He's a bit like Mudryk I feel, in and out of the team - that must be hard for a young winger.  Always being the likely first sub, playing well and then not starting, always coming on from the bench when we need a goal or result - hardly the ideal way to get rhythm in the team. Also feels like his best position is the exact one our best player by far usually starts in.  So that'll limit him somewhat too. 

[chiswickblue]

11 minutes ago, Bert19 said:

Proper old-school winger! 😁

He's a bit like Mudryk I feel, in and out of the team - that must be hard for a young winger.  Always being the likely first sub, playing well and then not starting, always coming on from the bench when we need a goal or result - hardly the ideal way to get rhythm in the team. Also feels like his best position is the exact one our best player by far usually starts in.  So that'll limit him somewhat too. 

Plus the last match showed that forcing Madueke into the team reduces Palmer's influence, whilst leaving us short on the left. We need to play Palmer or Madueke on the right, Mudryk or Sterling on the left. We've been lucky these guys have been fit for most of the season, we should be swapping them to keep them fresh. But never rely on Gallagher/Cucurella to provide width!

[jasonb]

It would be interesting to see

                                  Jackson

Mudryk             Palmer             Madueke

The  only issue is we lose Gallagher unless he drops into M/F.

 

 

 

[Max Fowler]

And now we start to miss out on our top targets. This is what a downward spiral looks like 

 

 

[Mark Kelly]

11 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

And now we start to miss out on our top targets. This is what a downward spiral looks like 

 

 

Well, Vince should know. 

[Bert19]

Much as I dislike them enormously, who in their right mind would choose the Chelsea job over the Liverpool one right now? 

You'd have to be bonkers

[Sciatika]

You may be right, but I think Liverpool may need a lot of work in the next couple of seasons. VVD  is 32 and past his peak. Matip is not all that great and Konate and Quansah are the backup. Thiago is also 32, Salah and Endo 31, and Robertson is no spring chicken.