Mauricio Pochettino leaves Chelsea by mutual consent

[Max Fowler]

25 minutes ago, Bert19 said:

Much as I dislike them enormously, who in their right mind would choose the Chelsea job over the Liverpool one right now? 

You'd have to be bonkers

Honestly, if we were at the start of this "project" and there was a sensible plan in place, I think many managers would fancy Chelsea because Klopp also leaves a big hole. With our project, however, most top managers like Nagelsmann recognise the Chelsea job as an absolute death sentence and we will be picking from the dregs with other top club available.

At the moment I think we might stick with Poch - if we twisted I reckon De Zerbi or Frank might be our top choices.

[east lower]

3 hours ago, xceleryx said:

And what part of a project do people not quite grasp here? Not saying there hasn't been an oversight in certain areas with respects to recruitment but every facet of a project isn't going to be solved all at once. We're still quite capable of amending these areas of need and adding to the nucleus we've opted to assemble first. 

 

If you are referring to me as not grasping a project, I'm in trouble as managing contracts and projects is what I've been doing for a good few years and am reasonably successful at - Must have been doing it wrong all these years. 

Let's forget about why there was such a need (in the owners minds) for such a re-build, in my mind nothing of the scale of demolition seen was required.

Feasibility Stage

What were they trying to do? No one knows as the owners or their appointed persons haven't said. Could what they want actually be done and what are the timescales, the blockers, the cost of entry, the cost of the overall plan and the likelihood of success - balanced against other options. Is Chelsea the lead in a multi-club approach or are we just another part of the overall vehicle

Planning Stage

How were they going to achieve this? Timescales, Cost - What comes first, the team or the infrastructure. What does the programme look like - Again, no one know outside of the owners and their management as they don't communicate this

Implementation

What does this look like, what is it we want it to look like, what are we trying to be, how long is this going to last, what are the stages of the implementation plan, what can happen in parallel with other activities, what are the dependencies. No one knows because again, they've not communicated this - There's no Project Plan available to view

Repair & Maintenance 

What's the budget for this going forward?

GRASPING THE PROJECT - Well if we knew what it was we were expected to grasp then perhaps those same people's expectations could be managed.

They don't communicate and I get they don't HAVE to, but if you're asking for patience then it is far better to do so. But, the feeling I get is that there's not much of a coherent plan anymore. Plan A isn't going to plan, Plan A was stated by the puppet in charge of the team before the season started and it very much looks as though that's out of the window already, unless there's a minor miracle of 2012 like proportions in the FA Cup. Plan B.......................................not sure they have one of those, Plan B is keep going with Plan A but maybe change the coach?

3 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Players perform different in different environments. There's absolutely room for us to improve tactically and I've said this in the past, so I'm not absolving Poch from responsibility or anything alike. However, the crux is that we're a very young team without much genuine leadership, so even if we've added players who've performed well individually at other clubs they aren't necessarily joining a club with the same sort of surrounding current day ability. Maybe in the next couple of years some of these guys will take strides forward to where they are good players, but not all of them are there yet and that shows in our inconsistency. 

Too much change too soon, that's why we're where we are and that is entirely down to the ownership. Players that we have have thrived elsewhere - solid foundations provide the base for them to operate on. We have quicksand below them. Nothing changes here until there is change, 9 months is long enough for signs of improvement beyond those that may have been seen here. The overall hasn't improved discernibly at all. "We score more goals" - great, we need to score three to get a win and that wasn't good enough recently either.

 

3 hours ago, xceleryx said:

This summer is a big one, it's a chance to amend some key areas of need. We'll have gotten a full season into some of those that are here right now, many of which will be better for. There's some that will be fighting for their futures, some that need to step up, and so on. Rome wasn't build in a day, but this side as it stands has been together for not even 12 months yet. With several key pieces not having been able to play due to injury. Get them fit (hopefully), add where we need, and we could genuinely see strides forward being taken. 

Granted, there's a big "if" surrounding the work we'll do in the market.

It certainly will be, how many in do you think we need? What positions, what type of character? How much will these cost? Is the savings tin full of cash, half-empty, awaiting sale of assets before it can be re-filled. 

Will Fofana & Lavia ever set foot on a football pitch in anger again? Can RJ be a real footballer ever again?

Rome wasn't built in a day granted, but you can bet your bottom Lira (euro) that they had a plan, but it was destroyed far quicker than it was built.

[east lower]

48 minutes ago, Bert19 said:

Much as I dislike them enormously, who in their right mind would choose the Chelsea job over the Liverpool one right now? 

You'd have to be bonkers

It's a bit like when SAF left Man Utd and Wenger left Arsenal - Do you want to be the first one in after them? As it turned out - no you wouldn't but I take the point you're making that, it's a far more attractive job than ours might be. No Salah and maybe other departures are murmured though.

But, there's a lower starting and expectation point with our job. Flip-side is, and to be fair the L'Pool owners have been patient with coaches in the past - so there may be a 'bedding-in' period allowed.

[Mark Kelly]

Here's what Big Mo had to say whilst he is was falling on his fat face in Paris. Looks familiar doesn't it. Get him out. 

Edited April 9 by Mark Kelly

[boratsbrother]

3 hours ago, east lower said:

to be fair the L'Pool owners have been patient with coaches in the past - so there may be a 'bedding-in' period allowed.

And Arsenal gave Arteta time to put his ideas into place and start working. 

It's now become  more clear ever before that the club's with patience and a long-term plan are the three which are miles ahead of all the others. 

We still think it's 2005-2015, a time when we were just a change of manager away from competing for the title again. It no longer works but fans keep wanting us to do what no longer works. If Poch is sacked, no matter who the next manger will be, he'll get his three months grace to start turning the club around before it all starts again.

 

[Mark Kelly]

[chara]

@boratsbrother...agree more or less but The Poch has "form" or rather mediocre form...much as I dislike Arsenal Arteta was basically untried (if I remember correctly) and could still be considered in his early days to have potential or capable of an upward learning curve taking into account his work record.

The Poch is an average coach as proven by his track record...some of the top players in the world under his hand and what?

As good (?) as he will ever be and at his ceiling as far as I can see....a coach driver not a chauffer....commuter driver not F1..I could go on but you get my point as I see it,

The garbage about The Poch motivating players... important but not in isolation,,,,enough motivation I would hope taking home a huge pay check as opposed to those of us who do or have worked our butts off for all our working lives just to keep afloat regardless of how hard we worked or successful we are/were. 

Jobsworth at best,

[Mark Kelly]

[east lower]

40 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

And Arsenal gave Arteta time to put his ideas into place and start working. 

It's now become  more clear ever before that the club's with patience and a long-term plan are the three which are miles ahead of all the others. 

We still think it's 2005-2015, a time when we were just a change of manager away from competing for the title again. It no longer works but fans keep wanting us to do what no longer works. If Poch is sacked, no matter who the next manger will be, he'll get his three months grace to start turning the club around before it all starts again.

 

And Arteta whilst doing it won, what was it two FA Cups? He also had the job of ridding the place of  'their rubbish'. Which he did and did so fairly mercilessly. With assistance from an established ex-top level player come Director of Football. The differences between them and us are clear and palpable. 

Now, they were patient  - accepted.  They got worse before getting better. He still needed more and they got him the experience and muscle required. But he was still developing himself, our bloke has hit his summit and is on the way down.

Our plan is based on data and Director's who've not put a boot on a professional pitch. We were ridiculing Havertz and Jorginho, who's shoes are the best ones now (not everyone was ridiculing them). Good managers make teams, bad ones destroy them.

[boratsbrother]

20 minutes ago, chara said:

@boratsbrother...agree more or less but The Poch has "form" or rather mediocre form...much as I dislike Arsenal Arteta was basically untried (if I remember correctly) and could still be considered in his early days to have potential or capable of an upward learning curve taking into account his work record.

 

 

Potter was rated one of the best young coaches around with potential for growth. We handed him a squad so bloated that Klopp said he had an impossible job on his hands. No patience,   so we sack him.

Lampard,  at that time was a young manager with potential for growth.  Again, we did what we always do. 

We didn't give Ranieri time to continue on the upward curve he was moving with the team.

Never gave a world cup winning manager the time.

Sacked Carlo after winning the double  and coming second.

With our financial advantages, we could and should have built a truly dominant club but we never looked further than  beyond  the next season. We let City become the club we should have been.

 

 

[RDCW]

4 hours ago, east lower said:

If you are referring to me as not grasping a project, I'm in trouble as managing contracts and projects is what I've been doing for a good few years and am reasonably successful at - Must have been doing it wrong all these years. 

Let's forget about why there was such a need (in the owners minds) for such a re-build, in my mind nothing of the scale of demolition seen was required.

Feasibility Stage

What were they trying to do? No one knows as the owners or their appointed persons haven't said. Could what they want actually be done and what are the timescales, the blockers, the cost of entry, the cost of the overall plan and the likelihood of success - balanced against other options. Is Chelsea the lead in a multi-club approach or are we just another part of the overall vehicle

Planning Stage

How were they going to achieve this? Timescales, Cost - What comes first, the team or the infrastructure. What does the programme look like - Again, no one know outside of the owners and their management as they don't communicate this

Implementation

What does this look like, what is it we want it to look like, what are we trying to be, how long is this going to last, what are the stages of the implementation plan, what can happen in parallel with other activities, what are the dependencies. No one knows because again, they've not communicated this - There's no Project Plan available to view

Repair & Maintenance 

What's the budget for this going forward?

GRASPING THE PROJECT - Well if we knew what it was we were expected to grasp then perhaps those same people's expectations could be managed.

They don't communicate and I get they don't HAVE to, but if you're asking for patience then it is far better to do so. But, the feeling I get is that there's not much of a coherent plan anymore. Plan A isn't going to plan, Plan A was stated by the puppet in charge of the team before the season started and it very much looks as though that's out of the window already, unless there's a minor miracle of 2012 like proportions in the FA Cup. Plan B.......................................not sure they have one of those, Plan B is keep going with Plan A but maybe change the coach?

Too much change too soon, that's why we're where we are and that is entirely down to the ownership. Players that we have have thrived elsewhere - solid foundations provide the base for them to operate on. We have quicksand below them. Nothing changes here until there is change, 9 months is long enough for signs of improvement beyond those that may have been seen here. The overall hasn't improved discernibly at all. "We score more goals" - great, we need to score three to get a win and that wasn't good enough recently either.

 

It certainly will be, how many in do you think we need? What positions, what type of character? How much will these cost? Is the savings tin full of cash, half-empty, awaiting sale of assets before it can be re-filled. 

Will Fofana & Lavia ever set foot on a football pitch in anger again? Can RJ be a real footballer ever again?

Rome wasn't built in a day granted, but you can bet your bottom Lira (euro) that they had a plan, but it was destroyed far quicker than it was built.

This is an excellent post. The idea that there is a lucid, progressive, intellectually credible plan developing behind the scenes is patently ludicrous. The amount of money spent has been unprecedented and mind-boggling. The wasting of revenue inbound from the sale of resources has been astonishingly profligate. There is no evidence that there is any coherent assembly of a properly structured squad taking place. It is therefore somewhat fatuous to suggest that we should take the development of the team and squad on trust. All the evidence points to the fact that the lunatics have taken over the asylum, the inmates are left to live or die by their own resources and any success will come despite, not because of the ministrations of the dribbling wallet-flashers.

Edited April 9 by RDCW

[chara]

6 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Potter was rated one of the best young coaches around with potential for growth. We handed him a squad so bloated that Klopp said he had an impossible job on his hands. No patience,   so we sack him.

Lampard,  at that time was a young manager with potential for growth.  Again, we did what we always do. 

We didn't give Ranieri time to continue on the upward curve he was moving with the team.

Never gave a world cup winning manager the time.

Sacked Carlo after winning the double  and coming second.

With our financial advantages, we could and should have built a truly dominant club but we never looked further than  beyond  the next season. We let City become the club we should have been.

 

 

As usual sort of agree with you but  Potter,,imho... was rated by basically the media as one of the best etc.

Many on here had doubts from the get go but as I recall tried to be kind and give him time but he really had feet of clay.

Ranieri was replaced by a winning coach much as he was loved by the fans,,did well with Leicester but usually the "almost" man. Would do better than The Poch now I think.

Possibly mistakes sacking coaches too quickly but ever mindful of the old Shankley words ..re players but works for coaches...:Better gone a year too early than a year too late."

HMG ensured we would never be the club City are.

With RA Chelsea would have eventually re righted itself. But then I still believe in Tinkerbell!🧚‍♀️

[Chelsea_Matt]

13 minutes ago, chara said:

As usual sort of agree with you but  Potter,,imho... was rated by basically the media as one of the best etc.

Many on here had doubts from the get go but as I recall tried to be kind and give him time but he really had feet of clay.

Ranieri was replaced by a winning coach much as he was loved by the fans,,did well with Leicester but usually the "almost" man. Would do better than The Poch now I think.

Possibly mistakes sacking coaches too quickly but ever mindful of the old Shankley words ..re players but works for coaches...:Better gone a year too early than a year too late."

HMG ensured we would never be the club City are.

With RA Chelsea would have eventually re righted itself. But then I still believe in Tinkerbell!🧚‍♀️

If RA was here we’d have comfortably been top 4 and won at least one cup in the last two years imo. 

Miss him - and my Chelsea -  like heck. 😔 💀😔

[Max Fowler]

1 hour ago, boratsbrother said:

And Arsenal gave Arteta time to put his ideas into place and start working. 

It's now become  more clear ever before that the club's with patience and a long-term plan are the three which are miles ahead of all the others. 

We still think it's 2005-2015, a time when we were just a change of manager away from competing for the title again. It no longer works but fans keep wanting us to do what no longer works. If Poch is sacked, no matter who the next manger will be, he'll get his three months grace to start turning the club around before it all starts again.

 

Also Arteta was given a lot of money to spend on PL proven experienced players - including the 60 million and 300k per week + for Havertz.

We show no sign of doing that - we have a completely different model

 

[east lower]

There’s an odds-on favourite at the CFCNet bookies for who got this one right. The majority were way off, looking at this.

Matching expectations, very clearly not!

There was also one very deluded or delusional person (unless it was a wind-up)!

Edited April 9 by east lower

[Ham]

41 minutes ago, east lower said:

There’s an odds-on favourite at the CFCNet bookies for who got this one right. The majority were way off, looking at this.

Matching expectations, very clearly not!

There was also one very deluded or delusional person (unless it was a wind-up)!

Clearly one of the whiney gets.... 🙄

[Max Fowler]

1 hour ago, boratsbrother said:

Potter was rated one of the best young coaches around with potential for growth. We handed him a squad so bloated that Klopp said he had an impossible job on his hands. No patience,   so we sack him.

Lampard,  at that time was a young manager with potential for growth.  Again, we did what we always do. 

We didn't give Ranieri time to continue on the upward curve he was moving with the team.

Never gave a world cup winning manager the time.

Sacked Carlo after winning the double  and coming second.

With our financial advantages, we could and should have built a truly dominant club but we never looked further than  beyond  the next season. We let City become the club we should have been.

I’m sorry bro, some of this logic doesn’t add up. Of course we should’ve sacked Ranieri to get in Jose. Of course, we should’ve sacked Lampard to get in Tuchel.

Potter was rated as a talented young coach, but no one saw him joining a top club like Chelsea when he did. In fact, he was far less highly rated than De Zerbi is now. It was a complete gut feeling hire from Todd who knew nothing about football and asked around a bit, who is the next young up-and-coming manager? and the name kept coming back Potter. He jumped on the bandwagon even though no one expected that Potter was anywhere near ready for a top club

as Jamie bin dipper Carragher said “you don’t sack Thomas Tuchel and get in Graham Potter. You just don’t”

 

 

[Max Fowler]

And it’s a bit strange to hear Chelsea fans speak about the failings of the Abramovich era when they are so clearly pale in comparison to what we are currently seeing. Did the Roman years have their flaws? Yes. Did we get overtaken by City? Yes.

But the fact that we still have to debate with parts of the fan base, whether or not this ownership has been an absolute dumpster fire of a failure or not, while at the same time questioning the decisions of the Abramovich era is just baffling. They are night and day. Chalk and cheese. Even the worst moments of the Roman era didn’t get close to what we have seen for the entirety of the 2 year Clownlake ownership.

[boratsbrother]

30 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

And it’s a bit strange to hear Chelsea fans speak about the failings of the Abramovich era when they are so clearly pale in comparison to what we are currently seeing. Did the Roman years have their flaws? Yes. Did we get overtaken by City? Yes.

But the fact that we still have to debate with parts of the fan base, whether or not this ownership has been an absolute dumpster fire of a failure or not, while at the same time questioning the decisions of the Abramovich era is just baffling. They are night and day. Chalk and cheese. Even the worst moments of the Roman era didn’t get close to what we have seen for the entirety of the 2 year Clownlake ownership.

We have to take into account the huge financial advantages we had when Roman arrived.

It goes without saything that we were hugely successful under his rule, but I would argue we did not fulfill the potential we had. We did not dominate the way we should have done!   Since Carlo won the league, apart from the two title seasons,  we have become a shadow of the league team we once were. 

Not getting into a Roman Vs current owners argument because there's no argument to be had about that at this moment in time.

[boratsbrother]

1 hour ago, Max Fowler said:

Also Arteta was given a lot of money to spend on PL proven experienced players - including the 60 million and 300k per week + for Havertz.

We show no sign of doing that - we have a completely different model

 

What model/plan we have isn't the issue. The big issue is time for our manager. Time for our manager to get worse before he gets better. 

Going way back. Utd finished 10th in Fergies third season. Utd gave Fergie that precious time, we would have sacked him. We would have sacked Arteta too. Probably Klopp as well.

[Max Fowler]

TT demolishing Arsenal. Man, I love having him as our manager! Oh, wait, clown Lake sacked him after six games

[Mark Kelly]

42 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

What model/plan we have isn't the issue. The big issue is time for our manager. Time for our manager to get worse before he gets better. 

Going way back. Utd finished 10th in Fergies third season. Utd gave Fergie that precious time, we would have sacked him. We would have sacked Arteta too. Probably Klopp as well.

Some people are worth giving time .

Some aren't .

Poch is one of the latter .

[Mark Kelly]

15 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

TT demolishing Arsenal. Man, I love having him as our manager! Oh, wait, clown Lake sacked him after six games

Demolishing? Coming from behind to lead 1-2 isn't most people's idea of demolishing.

Not like you to go overboard 😁

[Max Fowler]

2 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Demolishing? Coming from behind to lead 1-2 isn't most people's idea of demolishing.

Not like you to go overboard 😁

Winning 2-1 at Emirates is a pretty big deal

[Mark Kelly]

6 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Winning 2-1 at Emirates is a pretty big deal

It's better than we could do these days granted but we haven't had a problem in the recent past .