My Blood Is Blue Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 5 hours ago, xceleryx said: How many managers out there are likely to have this level of impact though? Early days Mourinho was very much the exception and not the rule. We're probably unlikely to see another manager have the sort of immediate impact he had on transforming the entire mentality of not only the squad at the time, but also the club as a whole. I fear if that's the bar being set then there's never going to be true satisfaction. I agree, but I do think the right manager can have the influence needed with this squad and club, to start building a winning mentality, which is something Poch isn’t giving us and Potter before him was even worse. Both managers seem far too quick to accept defeat in matches. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 apparently + - Arne Slot - Xavi - Ruben Amorim - Xabi Alonso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: apparently + - Arne Slot - Xavi - Ruben Amorim - Xabi Alonso Conjuring up these names is nice work for a journalist but the truth of things is that De Zerbi and Frank are below us in the league and if we win the two games in hand we have on Newcastle we go level on points with them. On one hand any one of the three would be better than Poch but on the other they're not exactly setting the league alight are they? Edited April 15 by Mark Kelly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boratsbrother Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 28 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: apparently + - Arne Slot - Xavi - Ruben Amorim - Xabi Alonso If those three are top of our list then we are in very, very deep trouble! I've read that Amorin is our number one target, though I gather he's also high on Liverpool's list too, which will make it a lot more difficult for us to get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguelito07 Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 45 minutes ago, boratsbrother said: If those three are top of our list then we are in very, very deep trouble! I've read that Amorin is our number one target, though I gather he's also high on Liverpool's list too, which will make it a lot more difficult for us to get him. I think Poch will stay another season 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said: Conjuring up these names is nice work for a journalist but the truth of things is that De Zerbi and Frank are below us in the league and if we win the two games in hand we have on Newcastle we go level on points with them. On one hand any one of the three would be better than Poch but on the other they're not exactly setting the league alight are they? 47 minutes ago, boratsbrother said: If those three are top of our list then we are in very, very deep trouble! I've read that Amorin is our number one target, though I gather he's also high on Liverpool's list too, which will make it a lot more difficult for us to get him. Amorin was on Si Philip's list as well - just not quoted in that tweet. Personally I think we will not move on Poch but these are exactly the kind of names we will go for if we do. There are plenty of expert / best in class top level managers available and have been throughout this ownership but their model prefers collaborative yes men. That is what led us to Poch and will lead us to our next manager too, who could do even worse. Edited April 15 by Max Fowler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boratsbrother Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 34 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: Amorin was on Si Philip's list as well - just not quoted in that tweet. Personally I think we will not move on Poch but these are exactly the kind of names we will go for if we do. There are plenty of expert / best in class top level managers available and have been throughout this ownership but their model prefers collaborative yes men. That is what led us to Poch and will lead us to our next manager too, who could do even worse. Being realistic here! Every manager has to be onboard with the owners vision/ plan/project. If not, then it'll lead to serious friction which will end in the manager leaving, as we saw with TT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 44 minutes ago, Miguelito07 said: I think Poch will stay another season 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boratsbrother Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 4 minutes ago, east lower said: I'd like to see Poch be given another season, but that is funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 9 minutes ago, boratsbrother said: I'd like to see Poch be given another season, but that is funny! Sometimes words alone are not enough! 😉 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCreadie Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 3 hours ago, Mark Kelly said: Conjuring up these names is nice work for a journalist but the truth of things is that De Zerbi and Frank are below us in the league and if we win the two games in hand we have on Newcastle we go level on points with them. On one hand any one of the three would be better than Poch but on the other they're not exactly setting the league alight are they? None of them have actually won anything ever either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin1905 Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 6 hours ago, Mark Kelly said: Conjuring up these names is nice work for a journalist but the truth of things is that De Zerbi and Frank are below us in the league and if we win the two games in hand we have on Newcastle we go level on points with them. On one hand any one of the three would be better than Poch but on the other they're not exactly setting the league alight are they? But what those managers have done for their respective clubs is what matters, not where they sit in the league. Getting Brentford into and keeping them in the Premier league is astonishing. The same can be said for Howe at Bournemouth and then taking over Newcastle when they were 19th and finishing 4th the following year. As for De Zerbi he's everything Pochettino isn't. Tactically superb with a philosophy on football and a system that is outrageous to watch. What he's done at Brighton in the last couple of years, taking them to their highest ever league finish and into Europe for the first time in their history, whilst loosing all their best players is ridiculous. Some people will knock him for this season but when you take into account they lost Caicedo and Mac Allister and have to play Thursday nights it's no real suprise they haven't been as good, similar to Newcastle this season with the added pressure of the champions league. Pochettino had a good run at Southampton, similar to what the others have achieved but that was 10 years ago now and he's been found wanting ever since. It might be that Frank, Howe and De Zerbi are similar and never going to be elite but we know for certain Poch won't. If we can't get Tuchel or Jose back then for me it's an absolute no brainer. De Zerbi is, no doubt, going to get a much bigger job and personally I think he will be very successful wherever he goes and I really hope it's here. I don't doubt we have good enough players to finish in the top 4, yes we need a couple of additions but what we need more than anything is a game plan. A system that suits the players and a manager that will drill them on the training ground day in, day out and you've only got to watch Brighton for 10 minutes to see that they are an incredibly well drilled, well oiled machine. They clearly spend a lot of time on the training ground working on tactics, how to play the system and everyone knows their job, no matter who plays. It's seamless. It's literally everything we're not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 Just now, martin1905 said: But what those managers have done for their respective clubs is what matters, not where they sit in the league. Getting Brentford into and keeping them in the Premier league is astonishing. The same can be said for Howe at Bournemouth and then taking over Newcastle when they were 19th and finishing 4th the following year. As for De Zerbi he's everything Pochettino isn't. Tactically superb with a philosophy on football and a system that is outrageous to watch. What he's done at Brighton in the last couple of years, taking them to their highest ever league finish and into Europe for the first time in their history, whilst loosing all their best players is ridiculous. Some people will knock him for this season but when you take into account they lost Caicedo and Mac Allister and have to play Thursday nights it's no real suprise they haven't been as good, similar to Newcastle this season with the added pressure of the champions league. Pochettino had a good run at Southampton, similar to what the others have achieved but that was 10 years ago now and he's been found wanting ever since. It might be that Frank, Howe and De Zerbi are similar and never going to be elite but we know for certain Poch won't. If we can't get Tuchel or Jose back then for me it's an absolute no brainer. De Zerbi is, no doubt, going to get a much bigger job and personally I think he will be very successful wherever he goes and I really hope it's here. I don't doubt we have good enough players to finish in the top 4, yes we need a couple of additions but what we need more than anything is a game plan. A system that suits the players and a manager that will drill them on the training ground day in, day out and you've only got to watch Brighton for 10 minutes to see that they are an incredibly well drilled, well oiled machine. They clearly spend a lot of time on the training ground working on tactics, how to play the system and everyone knows their job, no matter who plays. It's seamless. It's literally everything we're not. I do agree with pretty much everything you've said here with regards to a system and everyone knowing their jobs , Poch just brings chaos and lemons and not a lot more else. Good points on De Zerbi too , I was possibly a bit dismissive of all three to be honest , out of the three I'd certainly prefer him over the other two and as I said all three are better coaches than Pochettino thats stark staringly obvious, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTG Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 Outstanding result for Poch and the team. Poch is on track for the 50pts mark, which should get him another season. As a company man, the bosses might even give him a little bonus if he exceeds 50pts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin1905 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 (edited) Three times in one season, twice in a couple of weeks with the same player, shameful from this clown. Tells you everything you need to know, we are a team that lacks leadership, discipline, authority and respect and it falls on one man and he's been unable to sort out the most basic thing. Anyone that is thinking maybe we have turned a corner or maybe give him another season after last night, and our previous games that have seen us unbeaten in 8 should take a closer look at those performances and ask why it's taken so long to get a performance like last night and why it only happened because of injuries. If anything last night reiterated what I've been saying all season, the players aren't the problem and are more than capable, with a couple of additions to challenge for the top 4. Guarantee Disasi, Enzo, Sterling all feature more often than not, if fit, for the rest of the season and we will have more performances like Burnley and Sheffield United than last night. Just imagine what we could do with a proper manager........ Edited April 16 by martin1905 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sciatika Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 Cole Palmer: Quote "Other players wanted to take it which is understandable with the game at 4-0 but, I’m the penalty taker and I wanted to take it so in the end I took it. "I think we just are just trying to show everyone that everyone wants to take responsibility and stuff like that. Maybe it was a bit over the top with the arguing and stuff, but everyone wants to win, help and stuff so it’s nothing major. We were laughing and joking about it. The gaffer has told us now." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 Just now, Sciatika said: Cole Palmer: Mountain out of a molehill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiago97 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 47 minutes ago, martin1905 said: Three times in one season, twice in a couple of weeks with the same player, shameful from this clown. Tells you everything you need to know, we are a team that lacks leadership, discipline, authority and respect and it falls on one man and he's been unable to sort out the most basic thing. Anyone that is thinking maybe we have turned a corner or maybe give him another season after last night, and our previous games that have seen us unbeaten in 8 should take a closer look at those performances and ask why it's taken so long to get a performance like last night and why it only happened because of injuries. If anything last night reiterated what I've been saying all season, the players aren't the problem and are more than capable, with a couple of additions to challenge for the top 4. Guarantee Disasi, Enzo, Sterling all feature more often than not, if fit, for the rest of the season and we will have more performances like Burnley and Sheffield United than last night. Just imagine what we could do with a proper manager........ How many more flip flops can you make!? You wanted him out after 6 games, then a month or so back, you actually talked about extending his contract (though I accept that was not cos you rated him as a manager) and now we are back to he is the problem and needs to go! I still maintain the same view. He deserves to start another season here, but we need to support him with 2-3 experienced players in the set up and through the spine of the team. If we do that in the summer, then it is completely on Poch to produce from next season. Within the first 20 games of next season, we should be expecting minimum 36pts mark , if we provide him with quality experienced players. If we are short of the 36pts mark after 20 games, then that is the time we need to look at alternative options. I know a few laughed at my Poch rating of 7/10 so far this season from a few weeks back. I firmly stand by that and think he has done some things well, but collectively the whole club need to address some issues, then Poch needs to start delivering and improving upon this 7/10 for next season. The trouble is it is still so knee jerk reactions to good/bad results and performances. I have purposely been less active during what is a decent run, as I don't to feed the recency biased reaction to an unbeaten run. However, another negative result/loss, the Poch out brigade will be back in full force demanding change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin1905 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 1 hour ago, Thiago97 said: How many more flip flops can you make!? You wanted him out after 6 games, then a month or so back, you actually talked about extending his contract (though I accept that was not cos you rated him as a manager) and now we are back to he is the problem and needs to go! I still maintain the same view. He deserves to start another season here, but we need to support him with 2-3 experienced players in the set up and through the spine of the team. If we do that in the summer, then it is completely on Poch to produce from next season. Within the first 20 games of next season, we should be expecting minimum 36pts mark , if we provide him with quality experienced players. If we are short of the 36pts mark after 20 games, then that is the time we need to look at alternative options. I know a few laughed at my Poch rating of 7/10 so far this season from a few weeks back. I firmly stand by that and think he has done some things well, but collectively the whole club need to address some issues, then Poch needs to start delivering and improving upon this 7/10 for next season. The trouble is it is still so knee jerk reactions to good/bad results and performances. I have purposely been less active during what is a decent run, as I don't to feed the recency biased reaction to an unbeaten run. However, another negative result/loss, the Poch out brigade will be back in full force demanding change. Never said I wanted him to stay, just that I thought the board might keep him, that's not flip flopping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiago97 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 24 minutes ago, martin1905 said: Never said I wanted him to stay, just that I thought the board might keep him, that's not flip flopping Well, that is not my recollection of it. I can't be arsed searching for it, as ultimately it achieves nothing. I remember being surprised to see you talking about not being opposed to a contract extension. We are in our best run of the season. It's something like 1 defeat in 12, which was virtually last kick of the game in the cup final from a set piece. I'm sure plenty of his detractors want to analyse individual performances of who was progressed/regressed since he came in, as they often tend to do to suit the narrative at the time. However, results are improving, we are not losing as many games as we were, but also not winning the games we should be still. It's still small steps, we will continue to make stupid errors leading to bad results in the coming games. But we are slowly improving. Give Poch more adequate tools for the job next season, then the book stops with him only. I can't get my head around this idea that we rip up the progress (albeit moderate) we have made, to start all over again and enter yet another transitional period of manager getting to know players, implement a style, work out who he likes/dislikes and factor in another 6-12 months of sideways steps, before possibly moving forward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 Recognise that voice anywhere 🤣 Barnett giving Poch some aggro. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 48 minutes ago, Bison said: Recognise that voice anywhere 🤣 Barnett giving Poch some aggro. As is well known I have little love for Pochettino but he was dealt a shitty hand by the stupid players after one of our better victories this season and it made him look daft , one could argue that his managerial style leads to things like this but I still felt for him. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguelito07 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 6 minutes ago, Miguelito07 said: The voice complaining appears to be Neil Barnett so what did Matt Law do exactly to get a ban? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTG Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 4 hours ago, Thiago97 said: But we are slowly improving. Give Poch more adequate tools for the job next season, then the book stops with him only. I can't get my head around this idea that we rip up the progress (albeit moderate) we have made, to start all over again and enter yet another transitional period of manager getting to know players, implement a style, work out who he likes/dislikes and factor in another 6-12 months of sideways steps, before possibly moving forward. He’s a company man hired by the dynamic duo Winstanley and Stewart. 50pts plus and he nailed on for another season at the helm. like all good company people he’s knows his place in the organisation, therefore I doubt he will have any input on inbound and outbound players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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