Mauricio Pochettino leaves Chelsea by mutual consent

[Bert19]

25 minutes ago, ROTG said:

He put silverware on the table or should we scratch that one out because it was TFSW?

I did not want him, however in his short time he turned the club around and won the Europa cup after the  RDM fiasco.  

He won the Europa League - but should have easily won the CWC and lost the League Cup semi-final to Swansea (who then went on to beat Bradford City in the Final).  Two competitions he really didn't have much excuse for not winning.  

So silverware, yes.  All of the silverware he really should have picked up from the opportunities in front of him? Not really.

[Mark Kelly]

5 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

As one of his biggest critics Mark, put some meat on the bones with what Poch has to do next season to prove you wrong ?

Obviously , this depends on him being here next season. Let’s put some lines in the sand.

It’s easy to throw criticism out there, as in many scenarios, it’s positioned in a manner where the anti’s can only be proven correct . The positives get glossed over and it’s the players, the negatives highlighted to be the manager. So what does he have to do to prove you wrong , if he was to get a 2nd season here ?

 

I actually think that any improvement is just a tweak away , I really do , he needs to come up with a system that enables everyone to know what to do when we face a corner or free kick , where to stand , who to mark , where to play the out ball , who's to receive that ball .

Everything for me needs to be organisational , as much as I am a fierce critic of him I am also a fierce advocate for the players , give them some help , drill positional play into them , don't let them wing it , winging it to a degree is fine in attack but once we lose possession we must be more organised .

Play players in "their" positions and expect them to meet your standards , if Mudryk considers himself a number 10 then play him as a number 10 and tell him he has to do well enough to keep the position from others who covet it or he doesn't play .

If Pochettino cam get some proper patterns of play where everyone instinctively knows where they are , the sort of things that Jose and Conte would bring to the side , organise the defence , play the midfield that suits the game he wants to play and not the game the players want to play , don't isolate the attackers so much etc.

At the start of the season we had no width anywhere as he expected Chilwell or Mudryk to do everything on their own without any support whatsoever , no overlapping defender , no overloads nothing  and the pair of them looked clueless .

It's a game of small margins and if he gets these thing right ,we will be harder to beat and he will get more points and more respect and we will go up the table . 

He will have a rested James , Chilwell, Nkunku to work with  , a hopefully rejuvenated Enzo  plus some new players too he has to have the courage of his convictions as the players can tell when their own coach doesn't reckon their chances 

If we go out and spend a king's ransom on more players and he wastes them too then I really do not know ...

As daft as it sounds I am not anti Pochettino , I am anti Pochettino not helping himself or the team as he's more interested in chaos than order and you need a bit of both I think .

[boratsbrother]

42 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

No he didn't , he took over a club who'd got rid of all the lollygagging players , let those who weren't engaged going forward leave and then bought what were perceived to be the creme de la creme of upcoming talent . He had a clean slate from day one!

He hit the ground running in that so important pre season , got everyone firing and then promptly shit the bed first game of the season where his ingrained loser yellow streak got the better of him .

Since then he's done nothing other than improve the vibes , it's been a disastrous showing from the man and he's hung young players out to dry and let them make all their mistakes in the gimlet eye of the public making them look worse than they are and then had the audacity to allude he'd deigned to come here even though we weren't the ideal job for a man of his talents.

Our players are better than he helps them to be . 

Things are at a head now where because he's run them down so far almost the only thing we have to hang onto is to allow him to keep his job as we're now scared it'll get even worse if we change coaches.

Top work 

Youre saying these players should be playing better than what they have done. What is that based on when hardly any of then have proved thenselves at a top tier EPL team?  

Furthermore, let's look at the facts of these so called run down players.

Palmer is contending for the golden boot and has been one of the players of the season. Gusto has played so consistently well that even a fit James might struggle fo get his place back. Cucu was appallingly bad last season and on most fans get rid of lists, but is probably now the first choice LB.  Gallagher has had the best season of his career. Colwill was holding his own despite having to play out of position. Jackson has done pretty well overall. Petrovich started very well but his form has fallen off s cliff the last coupld of months. Silva has been Silva, though obviously age has caught up with him a bit. Mudueke has done ok.  It would be beyond ridiculous for anyone to say Poch has had a negative effect on any of those players! 

 Flops. Sterling was very average last season and looked past his best and been the same this season.  Mudryk started to look better but has gone backwards again. Caicedo is taking a time to settle but has shown improvement over the past few months.  Disasi doesn't look more than a squad player. Badiashile has been woeful. Enzo has been playing with an injury all season. That's it. That's your list of players made rubbish by Poch.

 

 

 

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, boratsbrother said:

Youre saying these players should be playing better than what they have done. What is that based on when hardly any of then have proved thenselves at a top tier EPL team?  

Furthermore, let's look at the facts of these so called run down players.

Palmer is contending for the golden boot and has been one of the players of the season. Gusto has played so consistently well that even a fit James might struggle fo get his place back. Cucu was appallingly bad last season and on most fans get rid of lists, but is probably now the first choice LB.  Gallagher has had the best season of his career. Colwill was holding his own despite having to play out of position. Jackson has done pretty well overall. Petrovich started very well but his form has fallen off s cliff the last coupld of months. Silva has been Silva, though obviously age has caught up with him a bit. Mudueke has done ok.  It would be beyond ridiculous for anyone to say Poch has had a negative effect on any of those players! 

 Flops. Sterling was very average last season and looked past his best and been the same this season.  Mudryk started to look better but has gone backwards again. Caicedo is taking a time to settle but has shown improvement over the past few months.  Disasi doesn't look more than a squad player. Badiashile has been woeful. Enzo has been playing with an injury all season. That's it. That's your list of players made rubbish by Poch.

 

 

 

It's a waste of time us two-ing and fro-ing between each other , we don't agree , I can see some of where you are coming from but apparently you cannot see that we'd improve with some proper structure and you , know coaching so that ALL the players improve and we get more out of them as a collective than the sum of its parts. 

You did say that he inherited a side in disarray and that is errant nonsense , he inherited a side he could mould into his image and chose not to . 

 

Edited May 2 by Mark Kelly

[Chelsea_Matt]

4 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

It's a waste of time us two-ing and fro-ing between each other , we don't agree , I can see some of where you are coming from but apparently you cannot see that we'd improve with some proper structure and you , know coaching so that ALL the players improve and we get more out of them as a collective than the sum of its parts. 

You did say that he inherited a side in disarray and that is errant nonsense , he inherited a side he could mould into his image and chose not to . 

 

ARLTP, right? 🧡🤣🤪👀🧨

[Thiago97]

20 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I actually think that any improvement is just a tweak away , I really do , he needs to come up with a system that enables everyone to know what to do when we face a corner or free kick , where to stand , who to mark , where to play the out ball , who's to receive that ball .

Everything for me needs to be organisational , as much as I am a fierce critic of him I am also a fierce advocate for the players , give them some help , drill positional play into them , don't let them wing it , winging it to a degree is fine in attack but once we lose possession we must be more organised .

Play players in "their" positions and expect them to meet your standards , if Mudryk considers himself a number 10 then play him as a number 10 and tell him he has to do well enough to keep the position from others who covet it or he doesn't play .

If Pochettino cam get some proper patterns of play where everyone instinctively knows where they are , the sort of things that Jose and Conte would bring to the side , organise the defence , play the midfield that suits the game he wants to play and not the game the players want to play , don't isolate the attackers so much etc.

At the start of the season we had no width anywhere as he expected Chilwell or Mudryk to do everything on their own without any support whatsoever , no overlapping defender , no overloads nothing  and the pair of them looked clueless .

It's a game of small margins and if he gets these thing right ,we will be harder to beat and he will get more points and more respect and we will go up the table . 

He will have a rested James , Chilwell, Nkunku to work with  , a hopefully rejuvenated Enzo  plus some new players too he has to have the courage of his convictions as the players can tell when their own coach doesn't reckon their chances 

If we go out and spend a king's ransom on more players and he wastes them too then I really do not know ...

As daft as it sounds I am not anti Pochettino , I am anti Pochettino not helping himself or the team as he's more interested in chaos than order and you need a bit of both I think .

Valid points that have merit and need to be improved. Though they don’t necessarily translate to more points. 
I was thinking more of a position in the table. If you’re an advocate of the players, where does he need to be firmly competing with next season, but just as importantly , where does any new manager need to be with this squad? 

I’m very much in the stability would benefit us camp. However, we need to remove the excuses from next season. Get him an experienced spine in the summer, then we have to see a difference.

10 games in 18pts minimum , 20 games in 36pts minimum. We fall short here and we replace him, as it’s the firmly on him. 

[boratsbrother]

55 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

It's a waste of time us two-ing and fro-ing between each other , we don't agree , I can see some of where you are coming from but apparently you cannot see that we'd improve with some proper structure and you , know coaching so that ALL the players improve and we get more out of them as a collective than the sum of its parts. 

You did say that he inherited a side in disarray and that is errant nonsense , he inherited a side he could mould into his image and chose not to . 

 

Not in disarray?

We finished just 10 points above relegation. Below the likes of Fulham, Brentford and Palace. We are 23 points above the relegation zone this season.

 

[Mark Kelly]

27 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Not in disarray?

We finished just 10 points above relegation. Below the likes of Fulham, Brentford and Palace. We are 23 points above the relegation zone this season.

 

And we then sold all those players and started from scratch. What about that did you miss? 

[chara]

2 hours ago, Thiago97 said:

You surely don’t believe this ? I accept with some it will be results /performances, but some have also openly admitted it is personal with Poch. We had people on here wanting him gone after 6 games! That is not due to results and performances, when the guy had not been here long enough to found his way around Cobham !

Well Yeah..... I didn't say nobody had any personal issues with him..a lot vaguely felt uneasy about the Spurs connection but I don't recall anything resembling the sheer venom and distaste following on from TFSW's arrival.

Everyone on here has long term football knowledge and experience of Chelsea and The Game... a lot of different perspectives which makes for a very lively platform ...again I don't recall any The Poch removers being petulant or just anti... most felt from their experience and viewpoint it was a questionable appointment after a short time...and generally proven about right....not so much The Poch is Potter bad but just average at best...not good enough for Chelsea unless the acceptance of mid table mediocracy ,,and safety,,is the goal.

The false dawn of the pre season followed by the harsh reality of the nitty gritty season.

Hampered by a crippling injury list not withstanding I have no long term faith in The Poch.

[thevelourfog]

Feels very  much like someone who doesn't expect to still be here next season.

[martin1905]

3 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Feels very  much like someone who doesn't expect to still be here next season.

That's very much how I saw it too.

Ironically the last couple of performances might not actually help him, its very easy to say we are seeing progress but the counter argument to that is last night and Villa is what some may have been expecting all season so, in that respect its been a massive failure. 

 

[Rob B]

47 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

That's very much how I saw it too.

Ironically the last couple of performances might not actually help him, its very easy to say we are seeing progress but the counter argument to that is last night and Villa is what some may have been expecting all season so, in that respect its been a massive failure. 

 

Irrespective, it's pretty impressive to do it with 14 players out. 

I said after the Man United game, that was enough for me,  I couldn't take anymore of the 'chaos football' and I'm not u-turning on that view yet, but if we won our remaining games and got to sixth place I might be more on the fence.   This is table for the second half of the season.  Interesting....

 

 

[Mark Kelly]

48 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

That's very much how I saw it too.

Ironically the last couple of performances might not actually help him, its very easy to say we are seeing progress but the counter argument to that is last night and Villa is what some may have been expecting all season so, in that respect its been a massive failure. 

 

Exactly. 

It's taken a long time to get here and with a bit of organising it would have been achieved earlier. 

We are beginning to see how good our players are despite their ages and how Pochettino can get them playing. 

But when the club is now actively looking for a replacement it may be too little too late for Pochettino. 

[martin1905]

17 hours ago, chara said:

Hampered by a crippling injury list not withstanding I have no long term faith in The Poch.

The injury list is savage. Not just the number of players that have missed large parts of the season the biggest thing for me is that James, Fofana and Chilwell would have almost certainly started the vast majority of games if they had been fit. That's 3 of your first choice back 4 out for pretty much the entire season.

No squad in the world would cope with that.

Liverpool went from 99 points to 69 the season they lost Van Dijk and Matip to injury then back to 92 the following year.

So 3 of your first choice back 4 out for the whole season plus your superstar signing and a player that would have made a huge difference to us.  I don't think some realise just how good Nkunku is and how much of a loss he has been. That's 4 of your 10 outfield players that all would have been first choice in their positions out for pretty much the whole year.

Below is a list of players that have missed 10+ league games for us this season.

Fofana 34

Lavia 31

Nkunku 27

James 26

Chalobah 23

Chukwuemeka 23

Chilwell 21

Ugochukwu 21

Colwill 14

Badiashille 13

 

Bizarrely enough if we win our last 4 , very winnable games, we will end up on 63 points and quite possibly 6th which I think most would have accepted that at the start of the season. Just imagine how much of a difference a fully fit squad would have made......

[mora]

26 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

But when the club is now actively looking for a replacement it may be too little too late for Pochettino. 

Are we though?

[Thiago97]

We looked more of a team last night, rather than a ramshackle of players.

Whilst I am very much in the stability for next season camp. I have been saying the same thing about knee jerk reactions all season, and I would also be weary of falling into that trap should we have a positive end to the season, over the next 4-5 games.

I’m not saying these upcoming performances/results don’t mean anything, but it is end of season where you meet teams with little to play for, or teams who are starting to run on empty a little after a hard slog season. 
I have been guarding against knee jerk in a negative sense all season, but it goes both ways too. 

[Mark Kelly]

34 minutes ago, mora said:

Are we though?

Reports would have it we are, could be cobblers though. 

[ROTG]

2 hours ago, Thiago97 said:

We looked more of a team last night, rather than a ramshackle of players.

Whilst I am very much in the stability for next season camp. I have been saying the same thing about knee jerk reactions all season, and I would also be weary of falling into that trap should we have a positive end to the season, over the next 4-5 games.

I’m not saying these upcoming performances/results don’t mean anything, but it is end of season where you meet teams with little to play for, or teams who are starting to run on empty a little after a hard slog season. 
I have been guarding against knee jerk in a negative sense all season, but it goes both ways too. 

You are spot on. 
 

There is a lot of heads coming up from hiding behind the parapet when the team have a couple of good results and will disappear again should results go south. 

[martin1905]

1 minute ago, ROTG said:

You are spot on. 
 

There is a lot of heads coming up from hiding behind the parapet when the team have a couple of good results and will disappear again should results go south. 

Is there?

Who are they and what are they saying?

I'm curious as I must have missed all these people coming out after the last couple of games and I'm really intrigued as to what they are saying. 

[chara]

11 minutes ago, ROTG said:

You are spot on. 
 

There is a lot of heads coming up from hiding behind the parapet when the team have a couple of good results and will disappear again should results go south. 

Agree up to a point (low) but for example Mark and I have been consistent from early in the season,,,in fairness I believe we both (and others) have acknowledged the better offerings from The Poch coached games and rightly condemned the disasters..... for me he is not a long term Chelsea leader or a short lived shooting star. Just an average mid table jobsworth without the bottle or ability to go all out for the elite spots

As an aside ..watching the Spurs coach post match interview was embarrassing...no looking at the camera or interviewer.... appalling..for me...show of deceitful or suspect body language.....??

Edited May 3 by chara

[Chelsea_Matt]

2 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

Reports would have it we are, could be cobblers though. 

I’d be surprised if we weren’t in terms of looking at all options. Poch only has a year left.

The problem though isn’t just him, is it? I think any fair-minded person would agree that Todd ‘n’ Eggy, Winstanley and Lawrence aren’t competent enough to judge a pie contest let alone run Chelsea properly. 

[My Blood Is Blue]

A big issue for me with Poch this season has been the manner of some of our defeats and what has felt like his impact on them, either through poor selection choices (and I don't mean being forced into changes because of injuries, that's obviously not his fault) and his lack of ability to change things mid match when it's clear for all to see that the game is either getting away from us or the momentum is shifting. The Villa match showed he is capable of this, but I can't think of many other times he's done anything like that this season... it's more often the opposite.

I expected more from Poch this season, I expected so much more organisation than we've seen and expected us to be hard to break down and beat. I completely understand the issues we have had with injuries and that has to be taken into account, but some of the performances really have been appalling by anyone's standards.

If we win all our remaining games this season and do so alongside impressive performances, then I may reconsider my views on how things have gone for Poch this season as I think that would show that progress has been made and a corner has at least begun to be turned, but I'm not totally convinced we won't have another disasterclass on Sunday.

I see the arguments for keeping him next season: we have a young squad, that doesn't need any more disruption and the alternatives at the moment aren't that great. I do think that if Poch leads us into next season, he won't have any excuses or caveats to lean on and expectations will increase.

[boratsbrother]

37 minutes ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

I’d be surprised if we weren’t in terms of looking at all options. Poch only has a year left.

The problem though isn’t just him, is it? I think any fair-minded person would agree that Todd ‘n’ Eggy, Winstanley and Lawrence aren’t competent enough to judge a pie contest let alone run Chelsea properly. 

Why do you (and so many others  to be fair) refuse to accept these players were not signed with the expectations of them making a top or even good side this season?  They were very clearly signed as part of a long-term plan which will they hope will see them grow into becoming a  top side for many years to come. 

Only time will tell if this plan will work, but from what I'm seeing, i'd put my money on then being ptoven right in the long-term.

 

[chara]

48 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

A big issue for me with Poch this season has been the manner of some of our defeats and what has felt like his impact on them, either through poor selection choices (and I don't mean being forced into changes because of injuries, that's obviously not his fault) and his lack of ability to change things mid match when it's clear for all to see that the game is either getting away from us or the momentum is shifting. The Villa match showed he is capable of this, but I can't think of many other times he's done anything like that this season... it's more often the opposite.

I expected more from Poch this season, I expected so much more organisation than we've seen and expected us to be hard to break down and beat. I completely understand the issues we have had with injuries and that has to be taken into account, but some of the performances really have been appalling by anyone's standards.

If we win all our remaining games this season and do so alongside impressive performances, then I may reconsider my views on how things have gone for Poch this season as I think that would show that progress has been made and a corner has at least begun to be turned, but I'm not totally convinced we won't have another disasterclass on Sunday.

I see the arguments for keeping him next season: we have a young squad, that doesn't need any more disruption and the alternatives at the moment aren't that great. I do think that if Poch leads us into next season, he won't have any excuses or caveats to lean on and expectations will increase.

Great post Sam...sums up ..I think..the overall thoughts of the majority of fair minded posters. (extreme views either way accepted as well)

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

Is there?

Who are they and what are they saying?

I'm curious as I must have missed all these people coming out after the last couple of games and I'm really intrigued as to what they are saying. 

I am not that naive to name names,

This forum is a great with a real hardcore membership, therefore it’s not that difficult to identify those who chirp up when things seem to be going in a positive direction.