West Ham United 3 Chelsea 1

[Sciatika]

No words.

[jasonb]

The result hurts yet again we are being floored by injuries.

Caicedo will likely need a fortnight to get up to speed.

I hope we work on penalties at some time this week too.

Personally a small win on Paddy Power as I thought there would be goals albeit for the wrong team.

[boratsbrother]

19 minutes ago, Super Kenny Monkou said:

I just don’t understand how players reaching the pinnacle of the game can be so lacking in confidence and appear so mentally weak.

As we know, before he joined us he'd only played a couple of dozen league games in what is generally a third tier league. It was an insane fee for a player so inexperienced.

You'd have to be blessed with Maradona or Messi levels of genius to be able to cope with being promoted so highly so quickly. He just doesn't have the years of top class training behind him and it's showing up very badly for the poor lad. 

[chara]

13 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

No words.

Nor me...only.... I have far more important (and insignificant) pressing issues to deal with at this time than worrying and fretting about the results of a game....BUT I am totally bummed out and down ...makes no sense does it ??

OK I'm wrong..do have words...WHam get gifted an early goal survive a penalty and a red card...over run before going ahead on yet another stumble whilst being a poor side...what does that say for Chelsea...sigh....is it all really down to luck?

Edited August 20, 2023 by chara

[Super Kenny Monkou]

1 minute ago, chara said:

Nor me...only.... I have far more important (and insignificant) pressing issues to deal with at this time than worrying and fretting about the results of a game....BUT I am totally bummed out and down ...makes no sense does it ??

As we have all said before. It really shouldn’t matter but it does. That little lift you need sometimes from a good result and performance can put a spring in your step. 
 

After the rugby yesterday, the ladies this morning and now Chelsea it has been a miserable sporting weekend!

[Rob B]

Pro’s:

Nicolas Jackson - a real player.  Must be such a handful to play against.  First half he was unplayable. 

Malo Gusto - obviously not Reece going forward, but didn’t really put a foot wrong 

Sterling - his best game in a CFC shirt. So direct and aggressive.  Seems to have regained some explosiveness. 

Con’s 

Axel Disasi - at fault now for two goals in two games.  We need to go 4 atb against Luton and he needs a spell out of the firing line 

Mudryk - doesn’t look like a professional footballer technically at times, and then will leave someone for dead in an instance.  Needs to bring some consistency if he wants to start matches

Chilwell - thought he was poor and didn’t really offer anything.  Hopefully we can drop this left wing experiment now. 

Caicedo - bit of a shocker but clearly lacking match sharpness. 

Chukwuemeka - left the stadium on crutches and looks inevitable that he will be out for sometime.  A real shame as he was starting to show his potential and scored a great goal. 

[Floyd25]

Just to cheer everyone up, Chukwuemeka left the stadium on crutches, months out I’m guessing….Christ it’s just misery fc isn’t it. 

[Bison]

Same club selling Lewis Hall. 

We really are the worst run club in all of football. 

[Mark Kelly]

2 minutes ago, Bison said:

Same club selling Lewis Hall. 

We really are the worst run club in all of football. 

I've often said he's a thick as mince. 

[Bison]

1 minute ago, Mark Kelly said:

I've often said he's a thick as mince. 

He's woeful but he has a huge fan club. Hopefully his last season at the club. A two year extension and a vice captaincy isn't enough to mask how bad he is. 

[Mark Kelly]

4 minutes ago, Bison said:

He's woeful but he has a huge fan club. Hopefully his last season at the club. A two year extension and a vice captaincy isn't enough to mask how bad he is. 

I think he's a good player but has little game intelligence if you tell him exactly what to do he'll do it but can't think on his feet. 

[Mark Kelly]

Apparently Poch said we have to "believe in the process"

It's invasion of the body snatchers, he's been replaced by a Potter-person. 

[boratsbrother]

10 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Won't be able to watch this one live as it's like a 1:30am kick-off here and I've gotta be up early in the morning, so full-match replay it will be once I am home. 

Excited to see how we'll do with I imagine Caicedo and Lavia both likely to feature at some point, if not start.

First half is enjoyable.

Second half is like one of those banned video nasties from the 1980's.

[boratsbrother]

11 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Apparently Poch said we have to "believe in the process"

It's invasion of the body snatchers, he's been replaced by a Potter-person. 

We need Dr Frankenstein to make us a  new JT',  Lamps, Drogba, Cole and co 

Edited August 20, 2023 by boratsbrother

[Thiago97]

It’s a really painful and annoying defeat. In a weird way, I am kinda glad it’s come this early though. I know this sounds odd, but I think if we had got to 7-8 games unbeaten, then I wouldn’t be surprised if the coach and these players were pulled into a false sense of security.

I just think this defeat almost helps Poch. It makea him a little wiser to some of the players , and forces him into making some different decisions now. For example , maybe a genuine back four , Caicedo starting etc.

The most frustrating part is you could see this coming at half time. These same problems existed back when  Frank was the manager. 

[Blue Kratos]

Typical away game to West ham.

A few personal points.

We should have been out of sight in the first half and if Enzo scores that penalty it's a different game.

Losing Carney too when he was playing so well was big blow and I hope the lad is OK.

Our squad is ridiculously young and we cannot expect them to become seasoned pros over night. Ofcourse those we thought were pros showed their true colours last season and have all moved on thank goodness.

These lads are all talented but will need time to gel together and most importantly learn to trust each other.

Today I think we saw both sides of the coin, first half sublime after conceding early, second half sloppy and unfortunately we didn't seem to know what to do after Antonio scored.

Last season I would have been very angry with the personnel we had available but this current squad needs time and patience.

West ham will probably not be the last of these type of results but this is a learning curb for alot of these guys and I'm hopeful that they will grow in confidence and stature as they go along.

We are under no illusion that this league is the toughest and most gruelling league in the world and no matter how well you play if you take your eyes off the ball you will get punished everytime.

This really is the process that the owners have set out and we have to support these new guys through better and worse.

I personally feel they may have rushed it a little in terms of incomings and out goings but that's up to them at the end of the day.

Other fans and pundits can get their little two cents as much as they like regarding the amount of money spent and whether it was worth it or not.

To me atleast the players on show want to be here unlike that lot last term and I am willing to give them and Potch the benefit of the doubt.

Sorry for the long post but I just needed to get that out.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Blue Kratos

[Holymoly]

An awful lot of knee jerk vitriol on this thread, some from those that should really know better too. We lost a game of football with a team that has only just started playing together, and every time they do there seems to be a new injury to take account of which makes it even more difficult to gel. Fundementally we are missing Nkunku who was the catalyst making everything tick in pre-season. Add to that now the captain has also been sidelined and we remain in the crappiest run of luck I can ever remember as a fan of over 50 years.

There is no point saying form hasn't changed since last season. The things that have changed are the players, the manager and the back room staff. It is a totally different club from last year. The attitude of the players is far better and so many of them are on edge until they open their account. I said during his protracted transfer that Caicedo had a very good season last year but was routinely a millisecond away from giving away a penalty or a red card. I also said when he came on that I hoped he wouldn't steam in trying to win his first game single handedly. As it turned out my fears were realised but I'm not going to blame the guy as we had already lost the game.

The worst thing we can do is to loudly criticise the players at this stage. Get behind the kids and the manager. Next up is Luton at home. Hopefully we can bag a hatfull and our season will get underway.

[Original 21]

Well maybe that result will scare the Board into bringing in a couple of attackers. And I don’t mean some kid from Nottingham Forest, no-one’s heard of, for 50m quid. 

[DannyLB]

There will be more growing pains like this match. I say this being fully aware I lost my shit during the match. Once emotions subside, I realize we still have some ways to go but the pieces are there. 

[boratsbrother]

19 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

An awful lot of knee jerk vitriol on this thread, some from those that should really know better too. We lost a game of football with a team that has only just started playing together, and every time they do there seems to be a new injury to take account of which makes it even more difficult to gel. Fundementally we are missing Nkunku who was the catalyst making everything tick in pre-season. Add to that now the captain has also been sidelined and we remain in the crappiest run of luck I can ever remember as a fan of over 50 years.

There is no point saying form hasn't changed since last season. The things that have changed are the players, the manager and the back room staff. It is a totally different club from last year. The attitude of the players is far better and so many of them are on edge until they open their account. I said during his protracted transfer that Caicedo had a very good season last year but was routinely a millisecond away from giving away a penalty or a red card. I also said when he came on that I hoped he wouldn't steam in trying to win his first game single handedly. As it turned out my fears were realised but I'm not going to blame the guy as we had already lost the game.

The worst thing we can do is to loudly criticise the players at this stage. Get behind the kids and the manager. Next up is Luton at home. Hopefully we can bag a hatfull and our season will get underway.

You make some very fair points and ones which I agree with but you're being a bit harsh on the FM's over the criticism. 

Apart from the poor defending for their first goal, eeryone was pleased with the first half performance and thought we should have gone in a couple of goals up. However, the second half was a shocker and impossible to defend, but that doesn't mean we are writing Poch and the players off. Most us accept this is a team that's going to need time to start gelling and a number of this squad are a few years away reaching their peaks. 

Personally, I don't think we have much of a chance of finishing top four this season and I'll be ok with that so long as I start seeing some consistent signs of better things to come next season and beyond.

[Mark Kelly]

I think the players won't fear my views having just seen Pochettinos face post match. 

They'll be running laps at five am tomorrow. 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Mark Kelly

[east lower]

1 hour ago, Bison said:

Same club selling Lewis Hall. 

We really are the worst run club in all of football. 

Cowards ball that one, tries to cover his poor touch by passing responsibility to a teammate. 
 

Put one in front of Antonio and you stop the majority of their build-up play. 
 

Goalkeeper is a significant downgrade on Kepa. This is a big problem now,  that needs solving. Pleased generally with the first half, lost our way big style in the second half with none of the subs proving effective. Badly need some support for Jackson, teams will suss out that CD we play off him and surround him. Oh for a Michael Essien type player.

[Gurj SS]

I was disappointed before the game started, the lineup was negative, the tactics were then rubbish, Poch was rubbish; he got it very wrong and didn't have an answer to fix the mess he caused. I want to give Poch time but I've got a feeling we could give him 10 years and he won't be the manager we need, we need someone who wants to play on the front foot from the get go, not sit off and get a feel for the opposition; that's small game manager mentality, we should have been making Moyes change his game plan instead we allowed them to dicate to us. Small mentality.

To the players:

Sanchez: Not sure what the idea was behind this, I haven't seen anything to suggest he's any different to Kepa.

Silva: It will be a very busy season for him, having to play alongside players you can't trust is very difficult as a CB.

Disasi: Was always a panic buy (must have been by the looks of things), but if I'm honest its not like Fofana showed anything to miss, but we really should have gone all out to bring a quality CB in.

Colwill: Not good enough, yet, or maybe ever, but not good enough; needed another loan. The guy is pushed out to LB becasue he looks a mess anywhere near the middle of the pitch, Disasi was to blame for the goal but all Colwill had to do was run back and get goal side but instead he got bounced around and then watched without making any effort.

Gusto: Solid, either he lacked confidence or he was told not to get forward too much, he normally likes to get up and down the wing but looked very reserved today.

Chilly: Let the man play as a LB, Poch is throwing him to the Wolves by playing him as a LW. He isn't a winger and needs to be given his correct role to play, what made it worse is we need a goal and Poch goes to a back 4 and leave a CB on at left back and takes the actual left back off; someone needs to tell him this isn't Vertongen and Davies or whatever.

Enzo: Was great last game after being allowed to move further forward, so Poch decides to drop him back again. Looked like he wasn't sure at times if he needs to be sticking or going, Poch needs to sort this out asap as talent is being wasted.

Gallagher: Our best CM this season so far. Hopefully rumours of him leaving we're just paper talk or someone at the club doesn't know what they're doing.

Chukwuemeka: Has been growing each game, a huge shame for the lad as he was our only effective attacker all game, in that he actually did something that worked. Not an almost, but was clear cut.

Sterling: Far better, but there's one thing Sterling can't get away from... It doesn't matter if he misses the final ball by a couple of yards or a couple of inches, fact is the final ball is never good enough; even when a few players almost got on the end of his cross it wasn't put in neatly; all this running to the byline just makes the final ball more rushed. Pep was right to never use him in the build up and use him to finish the move off instead, his strength is in his quick explosiveness to get on the end of a ball, not to provide the ball.

Jackson: The lad is being wasted, we have a brilliant player and he spends most of his time picking up scraps and fighting CBs just for his team to send the ball around the world before it comes anywhere near him again. He needed a player like Felix around today.

Subs: Mudryk - Looking more and more like a PR signing to distance ourselves from Russia and wave the flag for Ukraine, he's fast; that's where it starts and that's where is ends. Caicedo - Debut to forget, and very quickly, looked like Brighton had sent a body double who spends his days smoking a 20 pack and eatin Big Macs. Have we learned the most expensive way that Brighton's style is what makes players look so good there? I really hope not, Gilmour looks like Caicedo at Brighton, and Caicedo today made Jorginho look like Italy's Usain Bolt. Not buying the whole fitness thing, if that's the case bringing him on when 2-1 down in a Derby make Poch look more clueless than he already does, but there's not being match fit and then there's what we saw Caicedo do today. Madueke - I want him to come good, but how many players leave for Holland to get game time and come back a world beater? He was unknown to us when he came and he still is, looks like a player you'd see do something that makes a MOTD highlight reel for a team like Fulham. Burstow - Didn't have enough time, bit of another mis-management by Poch by throwing a young player on when the pressure is on; just move Disasi up top to win headers, keeping him away from defence might have actually done us a favour.

 

GK: I think we're a top goalkeeper short.

CB: I actually think Chalobah will improve the backline once he's back, and that's with me thinking we need to improve on him. Poch and the club have had their time to fix this, so no excuses.

FB/WB/WG: Not sure what to call our FBs right now, just everything down the white line seems to be their job to cover. If we stick with this weird system then the players aren't good enough, or they aren't fit enough. Needs to change ASAP.

CM: Time will tell, if we stick to 532/343 I can see us struggling all season to get the balance right. Do we have the quality? This time last year with everyone fit we had more quality; that's just my personal opinion on it.

AM: Not sure what's going on here, are our wide guys not being deployed as AMs, or was Carny our only AM left? A muddle of a puzzle. We need more quality and especially with Nkunku out; I'm not even joking when I say this, I'd trust an overweight semi-retired Hazard ahead of any of our attackers to support/provide Jackson.

CF: Jackson and then no one, we need another striker ASAP.

 

I was never on board with this mass clear out and blaming the players for last year, it was the chaos they had to navigate off the pitch and poor managers which were the issues; not the players, they're human too and simply revolted against some extremely poor decisions at club level. What we've been left with is less quality in some places, and vastly lacking experience in other areas. As things stand, there's nothing to show it has worked. Of course it's early days, I'm not suggesting it can't work, but we have nothing to go on right now. Clutching straws I can find some positives like Sterling looked sharp but he did that last season and then went missing for the next 5 games.

I really hope I'm wrong, but things are looking as dire as they did last season. There's no front foot football, there's no style or pattern, just looks like a mis-match of individual players doing their thing and passing the ball off. It's very early days, but I don't think Poch is the answer, he's just too reactive and not proactive enough. Moyes had an easy afternoon, he was able to set his team up and just go at us, check when he plays against another big club and he'll either sit back and assess the situation leaving the other team to dicate while he reacts, or they'll get torn apart by attempting to take the game to them. Liverpool was playing AMs as CMs against us, and we managed 1 goal from set-piece, today Carny dropped some individual skill to score a good goal. When Sterling made that run and crossed the ball it came from him having a go at running into a tight space on his own; I'm still waiting to see us have consistent passages of play where we genuinely look like there's a plan in place on how to break a team down. Yes only 2 games in, but itll be 12 in no time.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Gurj SS

[Original 21]

Jesus. What the f*** does this even mean?  Does the “right profile” include being able to put the ball in the back of the net?

[Gurj SS]

9 minutes ago, Original 21 said:

Jesus. What the f*** does this even mean?  Does the “right profile” include being able to put the ball in the back of the net?

Looks like it mate, looks like it.

What's more worrying is these comments come after a game where we played pretty much every attacker we have at our disposal.