JaneB Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 24 minutes ago, NoblyBobly said: What evidence is there otherwise? Well exactly 👍🏻 None 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thevelourfog Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, Dwmh said: I guess it is just me, but I found Sanchez a more than comptent keeper and a much better distributor than Petrovic. There was an incident when Sanchez made a bad pass and someone on here pointed to the GK coach telling him to be braver with his passing just a couple of minutes earlier. Certainly Petrovic plays it safe and Sanchez doesn't. That probably suits the park footballer on this forum (and me too). Whether it suits the GK coach or more importanly Poch i don't know. I guess we won't find out unless Sanchez gets fit quick 🙂 ... For my money Kepa is as good a Keeper as either and a far better distributor but I suspect he'd rather be No 2 to Courtois next season than come back here. On these two points, I was an at times loud and always exhausted beater of the "Kepa is fine" drum here, so no disagreement from me. Sanchez is definitely a bigger risk taker. Maybe I'd instinctively feel better about that if we weren't so defensively wide open, and my negative views are unfairly focussed on him. Certainly all I think of Petrovic right now is that he's a competent, safe pair of hands. You won't concede the total fuck up chances with him you will with Sanchez, but perhaps we lose something else. Neither is no.1 right now for a serious team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaneB Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 29 minutes ago, ROTG said: Both are what is written on the label 2nd it 3rd choice keeper for a top club. more evidence of the new Chelsea bar. 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chara Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 8 hours ago, kev61 said: How do you know a world class keeper when you see one?.Chara could help us in that department. How do you know a world class player when you see one?.I think I know it. Thanks for the confidence kev... I think when you look at the real WC keepers there is an air of invincibility about them...I have watched so many really good keepers who were just a tad short of WC...many International class but put up against the rare WC the subtle difference can be seen . I remember being shocked when Banks conceded a penalty at Wembley..unreasonable on my part but "that": difference as best as I can explain. World Class is so rare and I rated Carlo, along with Eddie N very highly ... just below The Cat and PC (TC of course but still bad taste for me!) Carlo would walk in today as would the others mentioned but I do like our new Petr.....I keep using the word competent ..,,not a word I associated with Kepa,Mendy and Sanchez....not the somewhat wayward focus of Kepa..the over achieving instinctivness of Mendy or the nervous unsettling energy of Sanchez... Just my very hastily assembled thoughts...my opinion only...not a set in stone judgement! Added...by competent I mean a compliment not faint praise...I look forward with great interest to his development being late to the EPL. Edited January 19 by chara 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boratsbrother Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 There's only two stats which really matter with the passing. How many of Sanchez's and Petrovich's passes have played a significant part in us scoring a goal and how many have cost us a goal? I can't think of any pass from either keeper which has played a significant part in us scoring, but Sanchez has been responsible for us conceeding whereas Petrovich has not made any mistakes which have cost us a goal. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTG Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 8 hours ago, NoblyBobly said: They have a new bar? Always a bonus when trying to knock down your half time pint. No more beer baths of celebrations at HT new bar with new prices, serving only half full glasses of long life beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev61 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 13 hours ago, Mark Kelly said: This is probably a simplistic view of things but surely , if you were a "counter attacking" side like many in the division are , it would make more sense to get your keeper to go long and cede possession miles from your own goal so you can win it back on the counter nearer the opposition goal? I've said this for longest time Mark.Playing out from the back is most ridiculous thing I have seen in the modern game. It's no coincidence that whatever level you played at the manager would shout (when the opposition were in the danger zone)...'ffs get rid of it'. Is that stone age tactics? or common sense!.No-one on this site or anywhere else has given me a good reason why teams do it. We over complicate things that does my head in.Back to basics I say (jesus what politician said that..sorry). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev61 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 11 hours ago, boratsbrother said: There's only two stats which really matter with the passing. How many of Sanchez's and Petrovich's passes have played a significant part in us scoring a goal and how many have cost us a goal? I can't think of any pass from either keeper which has played a significant part in us scoring, but Sanchez has been responsible for us conceeding whereas Petrovich has not made any mistakes which have cost us a goal. So "passing" from a keeper is a priority.I've never heard such nonsense. Who invented this nonsense?.We are over complicating the game - but thankfully the premiership is still the best place to watch decent football. We still have managers that don't over complicate things and say 'go out and show your god given talent' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev61 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 22 hours ago, boratsbrother said: I have opinions on many things. As someone who sometimes struggles to tell the difference between my arsehole and a hole on the ground, I don't proclaim to be an expert on any of them though! You should give your elbow a chance instead of your arsehole🤪 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boratsbrother Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 7 hours ago, kev61 said: So "passing" from a keeper is a priority.I've never heard such nonsense. Who invented this nonsense?.We are over complicating the game - but thankfully the premiership is still the best place to watch decent football. We still have managers that don't over complicate things and say 'go out and show your god given talent' I waa just giving my opinion about the kicking stats that were being compared between Sanchez and Petrovich. The passing percentage being meaningless and the only ones which matter are the two I mentioned. I generally agree with you about keepers passing becoming more important than it should be. For me it's about about them stopping goals, dominating the pen area and not making too many bad mistakes which costs goals. I'd simplify the kicking by telling the keeper to pass it short it he has plenty of time but lump it upfield when he doesn't. That would ensure we never lose a goal due to this silly and dangerous passing in and around our box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwmh Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 On keepers - think of the opponents. Who do you want to press - a team that has 2 great ball playing CBS and a ball playing GK? Or Zouma, Droy and Petrovic? I'm loving the idea that ordinary football guys can declare the big advances in the game over the past 20 years as invalid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob B Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 19 minutes ago, Dwmh said: On keepers - think of the opponents. Who do you want to press - a team that has 2 great ball playing CBS and a ball playing GK? Or Zouma, Droy and Petrovic? I'm loving the idea that ordinary football guys can declare the big advances in the game over the past 20 years as invalid. They’re only big advances if the players can execute it…. Sanchez can’t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boratsbrother Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 22 minutes ago, Dwmh said: On keepers - think of the opponents. Who do you want to press - a team that has 2 great ball playing CBS and a ball playing GK? Or Zouma, Droy and Petrovic? I'm loving the idea that ordinary football guys can declare the big advances in the game over the past 20 years as invalid. You're now twisting the argument to suit your point by bringing players in other positions into the equation. Lets stick to keepers and keepers only! Which plays a bigger part in the results of games - Keeper A being a better keeper who makes fewer mistakes and conceeds fewer goals or Keeper B who is better on the ball but makes more mistakes and conceeds more goals because of those mistakes. Goals conceeded which are not made up for by goals created for us. Should be a very simple decision to make on which keeper is better and more important to the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwmh Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, boratsbrother said: You're now twisting the argument to suit your point by bringing players in other positions into the equation. Lets stick to keepers and keepers only! Which plays a bigger part in the results of games - Keeper A being a better keeper who makes fewer mistakes and conceeds fewer goals or Keeper B who is better on the ball but makes more mistakes and conceeds more goals because of those mistakes. Goals conceeded which are not made up for by goals created for us. Should be a very simple decision to make on which keeper is better and more important to the team. The one that allows CBs to play, who in turn allow midfielders to play. I know that is a direct challenge to your prepformed opinions, but that is how modern football is seen by the coaches that manage to keep their jobs. Personally I don't have a strong opinion or expertise on this, i just watch what teams do nowadays. They play from the back ergo it is very likely to be a good idea. Same as Wingers playing on the "wrong" side. I see it a lot so it is probably at least as good as playing on the "right side". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My Blood Is Blue Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 56 minutes ago, Dwmh said: The one that allows CBs to play, who in turn allow midfielders to play. I know that is a direct challenge to your prepformed opinions, but that is how modern football is seen by the coaches that manage to keep their jobs. Personally I don't have a strong opinion or expertise on this, i just watch what teams do nowadays. They play from the back ergo it is very likely to be a good idea. Same as Wingers playing on the "wrong" side. I see it a lot so it is probably at least as good as playing on the "right side". I would imagine CBs would feel more confident themselves, in all aspects of the game, when they have more confidence in the goalkeeper behind them. When a GK is going through a bad patch or just isn’t at the level required, you will notice a drop off in performance of those in front of them as they will have in their mind, that the guy behind them could drop a clanger at any moment. Anyway, I’m happy to accept your opinion that Sanchez is the better of the two options, but I am sticking with my opinion on this and believe Petrovic is the better of the two and is the better option for us at this point. When Sanchez is fit again, I guess we’ll see which way Poch is going to go. Even if he does go Sanchez, my view won’t change. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chara Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Just a thought on the P v S debate..... it's probably worth the risk with an outfield player with a question of which one of his characters will turn up on any given day...Ossie say ,,depended on mood..Sir Jack ...Raheem and many over the years,,if a bad day then there is the Bench for options...BUT with a keeper there is not that, practical, option. Sanchez did well enough when he played but for me there was/is always that unseen nervous tic , (akin to the which player will turn up or probably better put..which will let a weakness through)...So far Petr has not shown that and always looks on top of things...appreciate this could change ...Mendy played out of his skin but couldn't keep it up....As it stands Petr should keep the jersey until he shows he shouldn't...when two keepers are both roughly on the same level form wise then maybe the so called distribution issue might make a difference..as would other very minor attributes or weaknesses.... As Sam pointed out..at ground zero level watch the CB's closely to see how the keeper is doing...and also a keeper on form to see how the CB's are doing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev61 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 10 hours ago, My Blood Is Blue said: When Sanchez is fit again, I guess we’ll see which way Poch is going to go. Even if he does go Sanchez, my view won’t change. If he goes for Sanchez it is another nail in his coffin.What sort of manager cannot see that Petr is better NOW. What logic thinks it's better to bring in keeper that gives most people the jitters!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sciatika Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 We need to rotate our GKs so they play in match situations with the first team and build up a relationship with them. Obviously, Poch and the GK coaches need to pick and choose when they do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeping Dave Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 On 30/12/2023 at 19:50, Dwmh said: You think? It was a header from 11 yards away and directly above his head. If he doesn't get his hands to that it is a disaster, and he very nearly pushed it in not over. He has been solid, but I wouldn't call that special. Didn't cover himself in glory for their second either. If that had been Kepa.... One cost £75m and 175k/w for 6 years. The other is what? On 40k/w and cost us a fee of £7m. Still I don’t see Petkovic as being the obviously inferior option. Perhaps even on par with Kepa. I’ve said for years that the club should be able to find a player that is equal to Kepa at the fraction of the cost. I’ve been laughed at yet here we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 57 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said: One cost £75m and 175k/w for 6 years. The other is what? On 40k/w and cost us a fee of £7m. Still I don’t see Petkovic as being the obviously inferior option. Perhaps even on par with Kepa. I’ve said for years that the club should be able to find a player that is equal to Kepa at the fraction of the cost. I’ve been laughed at yet here we are. We found one that was even better for a fraction of the cost and won the Champions League. Petrovic is better than Kepa. Kepa has been dropped by Madrid after one too many howlers. He is as crap now as he has always been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 On 19/01/2024 at 11:40, thevelourfog said: I thought it was the other way round? In that there was a falling out first, then he was dropped. I'm always a bit dubious of Who Scored analyses. Here, for example, they present stats showing Sanchez has better passing accuracy over short and long distance. I can completely believe it. What that analysis misses, though, is where the inaccurate passes go and what the impact of them is. My eye-test tells me Petrovic isn't booting into touch or straight to pressing attackers nearly as much as Sanchez, and that his misplaced passes have been more benign. I like Petrovic, but his main attraction for lots of us (understandably!) is that he isn't Sanchez. Sanchez has made some intelligent and technically good passes but, most importantly, if the pass isn't on he doesn't force it. I think we've coceded some soft goals under Sanchez whereas I don't think Petrovic could have done much with the ones he has conceded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw66 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 On 21/01/2024 at 02:39, kev61 said: If he goes for Sanchez it is another nail in his coffin. What sort of manager cannot see that Petr is better NOW. I have been impressed with him, but he has been somewhat fortunate to have had a gentle set of fixtures. The proof in the pudding will be the next few, but I like what I have seen thus far On 21/01/2024 at 09:08, Bison said: I think we've coceded some soft goals under Sanchez whereas I don't think Petrovic could have done much with the ones he has conceded. Petrovic certainly hasn't conceded any like the Burnley one, or the Gordon goal at SJP, where you think Sanchez maybe could / should have saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwmh Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 31 minutes ago, paulw66 said: I have been impressed with him, but he has been somewhat fortunate to have had a gentle set of fixtures. The proof in the pudding will be the next few, but I like what I have seen thus far This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 2 hours ago, paulw66 said: I have been impressed with him, but he has been somewhat fortunate to have had a gentle set of fixtures. The proof in the pudding will be the next few, but I like what I have seen thus far Petrovic certainly hasn't conceded any like the Burnley one, or the Gordon goal at SJP, where you think Sanchez maybe could / should have saved. Even the goal Forest scored at SB, I felt Sanchez was slow to get down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeping Dave Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 On 21/01/2024 at 09:50, Bison said: We found one that was even better for a fraction of the cost and won the Champions League. Petrovic is better than Kepa. Kepa has been dropped by Madrid after one too many howlers. He is as crap now as he has always been. He’s started 60% of the games and I’d wager there is zero chance of him making that Real move permanent. But for us it was important to get him off the books so we could move on. Next season we’ll give him away to anyone who’s interested. One of the worst signings we’ve ever made. Going from Cudicini to Cech to Courtois only to end up with Kepa was a real wake up call. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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