Chelsea 0 Nottingham Forest 1

[Sleeping Dave]

Just now, Ham said:

£66m.  No way he's hitting bonus targets. 

Weather it’s £66m or £88m is somewhat besides the point. Much like Kepa costing us £70m or £60m - it doesn’t matter. The fee is so high and the scouting so poor, that any substantial fee is likely to be way too much. 

Kepa would have been alright at £20m. Mudryk would have been an ok project player at £20m. But when the cost is 3-4x there’s no way the signing can be deemed as anything but a clusterfuck. 

[Sleeping Dave]

The most depressing issue is that looking through that very expensive squad I have no idea who’s supposed to drag the rest of them when the going gets tough. We have tried to remedy a lot of the old squads weaknesses but two weaknesses are unaddressed - goals and leadership.

That’s what you pay the big bucks for. Todd and Co has still not grasped that. 

[Blue_in_TX]

I agree with your point but can't blame Mudryk for all of this.  This is a collective failure based on selection.  Bringing attacking players on after your already down and the opposition is already set to defend with a referee who allows physical play is a recipe for what we just experienced. 

[Sleeping Dave]

Gilmour (we sold him for £8m) and Evan Ferguson (Brighton paid peanuts for him when he was 16) are dominating for them. 

You don’t have to pay big money for massive youth gambles. Add a manager that has an idea and is bold. Let him run the football operations and provide him with the raw material he needs. Brighton have punched above their weight for a while now at the same time as we are grossly underperforming. I mean there must be someone at the club who can draw a straight line between point A and B? 

[jasonb]

We had enough chances to win the game just not composed enough  when the chances fell.

Seemed a number of players were just off their game,  need to see if this is a one-off or a symptom of a deeper malaise

[Blue_in_TX]

We overpay for LITERALLY EVERYONE -

 

[Original 21]

I think we’re going to look back on the transfer window just closed and regret that we didn’t invest in a proven centre forward. 

[chara]

I think it was the second Brighton goal...view from behind showed an empty M-Way path through to the keeper.... sides come to SB and just park across the pathways!

Impressions only but every ball into the crowded Forest area ground or cross seemed to find a red shirt!

[Max Fowler]

12 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Gilmour (we sold him for £8m) and Evan Ferguson (Brighton paid peanuts for him when he was 16) are dominating for them. 

You don’t have to pay big money for massive youth gambles. Add a manager that has an idea and is bold. Let him run the football operations and provide him with the raw material he needs. Brighton have punched above their weight for a while now at the same time as we are grossly underperforming. I mean there must be someone at the club who can draw a straight line between point A and B? 

Important point needs to be made here Dave. Players can look great for Brighton, so can managers. We are a different animal. Expectations are so much higher, pressure is so much higher. That's why Potter flopped.

Many of our current crop, including Mudryk, might tear it up at the likes of Brighton.

Bring Gilmour back and he will likely struggle with the expectations at Chelsea.

We need players and a manager who can cope with the expectations of our fans and the prices our owners pay.

There are only certain players and managers who can cope with the elite level of football.

[boratsbrother]

9 minutes ago, Blue_in_TX said:

We overpay for LITERALLY EVERYONE -

 

True! But the even bigger problem is having massively overpaid far too often. All clubs make big mistakes paying far too much for a player or two,  but we've have become world class at it.🙁

[Sleeping Dave]

1 minute ago, Max Fowler said:

Important point needs to be made here Dave. Players can look great for Brighton, so can managers. We are a different animal. Expectations are so much higher, pressure is so much higher. That's why Potter flopped.

Many of our current crop, including Mudryk, might tear it up at the likes of Brighton.

Bring Gilmour back and he will likely struggle with the expectations at Chelsea.

We need players and a manager who can cope with the expectations of our fans and the prices our owners pay.

There are only certain players and managers who can cope with the elite level of football.

Maybe that’s what Todd & Co are trying to achieve here? Sink us and then hire someone that can punch above their weight with little to no expectation on them? 

[Sleeping Dave]

17 minutes ago, jasonb said:

We had enough chances to win the game just not composed enough  when the chances fell.

Seemed a number of players were just off their game,  need to see if this is a one-off or a symptom of a deeper malaise

A young squad with no goalscorer or leadership will have plenty of games like this. It’s not a deeper malaise, just very obvious flaws that was very predictable. 

This will continue for a good while. At least that should be expected. 

[Thiago97]

It’s 4 games guys. The reality is this is a much bigger job than we probably realise. A huge turnover of players and we just have to give this time. Poch is clearly still learning about the players, we as fans are still learning about a number of the players. 
Currently , it’s the same old story of dominating a game, but not actually creating a great deal and not really make oppo goalkeepers do much. In theory, this should be easy to change, but let’s be honest here. We are on our 4th manager in a row who is struggling to turn this around. Tuchel had some success, but it crept back after a few months and Tuchel success was built upon being well coached and well organised, we still struggled with goals and creative play.

It’s frustrating for sure, but todays result is also not really a surprise. We still have a long way to to be competitive for top4 finish. It’s now up to the coach to really get to grips with the squad and turn this around. It’s going to take time though, the West Ham game showed us these frailties are still present. 

[boratsbrother]

7 minutes ago, chara said:

I think it was the second Brighton goal...view from behind showed an empty M-Way path through to the keeper.... sides come to SB and just park across the pathways!

Impressions only but every ball into the crowded Forest area ground or cross seemed to find a red shirt!

Been happening for years now though.

Our attacks have relied far too much on spamming crosses into crowded pen boxes. Until we find players who can zip the ball about quickly and accurately to rip open packed defenses, then we will continue to struggle to score enough goals. Either that, or get the ball forward very quickly and get 4 or 5 players into dangerous positions. City have been doing both for years and we've been doing neither of them.

[Blue_in_TX]

It may be a big job but will never get done if we play scared and respect Nottingham Forest that much respect at home 

[Max Fowler]

2 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

It’s 4 games guys. The reality is this is a much bigger job than we probably realise. A huge turnover of players and we just have to give this time. Poch is clearly still learning about the players, we as fans are still learning about a number of the players. 
Currently , it’s the same old story of dominating a game, but not actually creating a great deal and not really make oppo goalkeepers do much. 

It’s frustrating for sure, but todays result is also not really a surprise. We still have a long way to to be competitive for top4 finish. It’s now up to the coach to really get to grips with the squad and turn this around. 

Copy and pasted from Potter era.

[Blue_in_TX]

3 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

It’s 4 games guys. The reality is this is a much bigger job than we probably realise. A huge turnover of players and we just have to give this time. Poch is clearly still learning about the players, we as fans are still learning about a number of the players. 
Currently , it’s the same old story of dominating a game, but not actually creating a great deal and not really make oppo goalkeepers do much. In theory, this should be easy to change, but let’s be honest here. We are on our 4th manager in a row who is struggling to turn this around. Tuchel had some success, but it crept back after a few months and Tuchel success was built upon being well coached and well organised, we still struggled with goals and creative play.

It’s frustrating for sure, but todays result is also not really a surprise. We still have a long way to to be competitive for top4 finish. It’s now up to the coach to really get to grips with the squad and turn this around. It’s going to take time though, the West Ham game showed us these frailties are still present. 

It may be a big job but will never get done if we play scared and respect Nottingham Forest that much respect at home 

[kev61]

Until we get wide players playing wide and providing crosses to the centre forward and players running in from outside the box we will continue to make Jackson look bad and very predictable to play against.

Ask any central defender who they hate to defend against and they will say a team who plays with wide players.We're asking too much of Jackson.It must be soul destroying to making runs with no support.A centre forward thrives on crosses.

I think young Palmer and Maatsen done more in the short time they were on than the whole of our attack played all game.

We could try and link play with Chilwell and Maatsen/ Mudryk on the left and Gusto/ palmer or Sterling on the right  with Sterling or Palmer playing just in behind Jackson.

If Poch plays Chilwell as a wingeragain I will squeam and squeam and squeam until I get my way.

Edited September 2, 2023 by kev61

[Thiago97]

8 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Copy and pasted from Potter era.

It is yes. Because that’s the situation we are in. We had to give Potter time, but he wasn’t up to the job. I suspect there is quite a difference between Potter and Poch. We certainly look better so far, but have the same problems. It’s not something that will be turned around overnight. Losing our sh*t after 4 games is not going to solve anything. I am of the opinion we have gone too young and I was calling out for 2-3 experienced players to be signed. It didn’t happen, but now it at all about changing this on the coaching field. 

[martin1905]

Absolute fucking disgraceful today. 

Make no mistake, this isn't a clever 'Pep' like tactic. We aren't playing 5 at the back without the ball and morphing into something different with it or vice versa. We are very much playing a back 4 with Colwill left back and Chilwell left wing.  Not only is it criminal playing Chilwell there from an attacking point of view, we badly, badly miss his overlapping runs from left back. Colwill looks exactly like what he is, a centre half playing full back. It's mind boggling considering how important full backs are in the modern game and just how good our full backs are.

5 defenders On the pitch, one playing left wing and a midfield of Enzo, Caicedo and Gallagher. We literally had two attackers on the pitch, at home to Nottingham Forest who can't buy a win away in the premier League. It's like Graham fucking Potter all over again.

If this carries on he will be gone by Christmas.

It was so important to get off to a good start and he's fucked it, after having a very favourable opening run of fixtures. I can't get my head round it, it's got me thinking that maybe he's not happy and it's a bit of self sabotage, nothing else makes sense. All the good work done in pre season has been thrown away.

Next game we quite simply have to see this or something very close to this. 

Sanchez

Gusto Silva Colwill Chilwell

Enzo Caicedo

Madueke Palmer Sterling

Jackson.

It's not rocket science.

 

[Thiago97]

The other issue that does not help is we have so many players new to the club and trying to find their feet, yet some cannot get a regular run of games cos of so many alternative options.

Mudryk - I stand by my comments, he is not an impact sub and needs to start games before we will see anything.

Madueke- Can’t get a regular run of playing

Maatsen - He’s a new player really, but cannot get a run

Palmer/Lavia - both could fall into this category in the coming weeks.

Carney - was in a similar situation until injury gave him a chance then robbed him of it.

Then you have 4-5 new players who are starting to get a run of games, but still less than 5 games into their career here (Disasi,Colwill,Caicedo, Gusto, Jackson)

I don’t imagine any of these players really feel at home and settled at Chelsea yet.  This is practically half the first team. It’s all so fragmented and the number of options available is not really helping these guys settle imo. Certainly the attacking creative players. 

 

[Mark Kelly]

7 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

The other issue that does not help is we have so many players new to the club and trying to find their feet, yet some cannot get a regular run of games cos of so many alternative options.

Mudryk - I stand by my comments, he is not an impact sub and needs to start games before we will see anything.

Madueke- Can’t get a regular run of playing

Maatsen - He’s a new player really, but cannot get a run

Palmer/Lavia - both could fall into this category in the coming weeks.

Carney - was in a similar situation until injury gave him a chance then robbed him of it.

Then you have 4-5 new players who are starting to get a run of games, but still less than 5 games into their career here (Disasi,Colwill,Caicedo, Gusto, Jackson)

I don’t imagine any of these players really feel at home and settled at Chelsea yet.  This is practically half the first team. It’s all so fragmented and the number of options available is not really helping these guys settle imo. Certainly the attacking creative players. 

 

Good point, well made which is why Pochettino needs to answer why he allowed them to get used to playing one way in pre season, scoring goals and winning games and immediately changed that when the season came around.

 

[Max Fowler]

9 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

The other issue that does not help is we have so many players new to the club and trying to find their feet, yet some cannot get a regular run of games cos of so many alternative options.

Mudryk - I stand by my comments, he is not an impact sub and needs to start games before we will see anything.

Madueke- Can’t get a regular run of playing

Maatsen - He’s a new player really, but cannot get a run

Palmer/Lavia - both could fall into this category in the coming weeks.

Carney - was in a similar situation until injury gave him a chance then robbed him of it.

Then you have 4-5 new players who are starting to get a run of games, but still less than 5 games into their career here (Disasi,Colwill,Caicedo, Gusto, Jackson)

I don’t imagine any of these players really feel at home and settled at Chelsea yet.  This is practically half the first team. It’s all so fragmented and the number of options available is not really helping these guys settle imo. Certainly the attacking creative players. 

 

I agree but I think you let Mudryk in particular off the hook.

He has been nothing short of shocking in every sub appearance I have seen.

Impossible to play him unless he shows something off the bench.

At least Madueke does - and he hasn't been great.

[chara]

@kev61...on from your thoughts...ask any group of defenders and they will tell you one their worst nightmare is a fast tricky winger (type) running at them in a crowded area...invariably players try to close him down regardless of their alloted roles.... when Raheem does that he is priceless and a penalty decision waiting to happen or a goal threat but when he is shuffled out of harms way or chooses to stay out of that scenario he is just another player on the pass around schedule.... not his fault alone by any means but he is a senior player and cannot be allowed to provide cameos as he feels inclined.

Doom and Gloom today..understandably so but a long season ...lets see in November....

[Thiago97]

3 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Good point, well made which is why Pochettino needs to answer why he allowed them to get used to playing one way in pre season, scoring goals and winning games and immediately changed that when the season came around.

 

I’m not sure what has prompted this switch. At the same time, I don’t think it’s massively different to pre season. Chilwell was constantly bombing on in pre season, much like he is now. His starting position was high pre season, I think it’s more of a subtle difference than is being made out. At the same time, it don’t really seem to be working .