Chelsea 0 Nottingham Forest 1

[Gurj SS]

10 minutes ago, kev61 said:

The thing that gets me is how many times have we started well only to slide into mediocrity?.

We look like nothing compared to pre-season.

The only thing I can think of is the manager panics and the players can sense he's panicking.

 

 

Yep, there's a pattern emerging, it's like the team tries and the moment they come across resistance and a challenge they go into their shell; then from that point onwards it's a match purely based on hope.

Poch is no better, remember his title run in with Leicster, when it came to the real games at the end Spurs only managed to pick up 2 points from a possible 12, and got thumped 5-1 by Newcastle on the last day of the season; meaning they finished 3rd in a 2 horse race; all this at a club with no expectations yet even they still sacked him. Yes a manager can't kick the ball for their players but what managers do is install a mentality, not one of hope or excitement, but one of real grit, a strong head, an idea of what to do and how to play when chasing a game, how to manage a game depending on the scoreline and time remaining. Today while we looked like we were trying to score and I'm sure the players were, it was pure chaos, it wasn't calm and measured, there was no shape and a plan to get in behind or lay off the ball for someone; it was players popping up all over the place and at times too close to each other to actually be of any use in the build-up; just pure chaos.

[kev61]

9 minutes ago, NoblyBobly said:

Haven’t seen the game but is Mudryk a better player than CHO?  If so then how much better? What does he do better? Is he more versatile? Will he score more goals?
We paid 81 m and gave him a 7 year contract . We’ve just given away CHO to forest for 5m.  We could have saved the 81m  and brought an academy player back who at least has some feeling for the club. 

 

The voice of reason Nobly.There seems to be a lot of people that say 'I told you so' in regards to CHO.

CHO  never  played as bad as Mudryk, but I still think Mudryk is a better player.....potentially.

As you say 80 mil of a difference is stupidity in the extreme.

I get the feeling Clearlake  are high rollers in a casino and that seems contrary to a successful investment company.

They seem to be behaving like a company that if everything fails they have a way out with minimal conseqences.

I suppose a new stadium is out of the question and our current one will get a face lift at best?.

[kev61]

6 minutes ago, Gurj SS said:

Yep, there's a pattern emerging, it's like the team tries and the moment they come across resistance and a challenge they go into their shell; then from that point onwards it's a match purely based on hope.

Poch is no better, remember his title run in with Leicster, when it came to the real games at the end Spurs only managed to pick up 2 points from a possible 12, and got thumped 5-1 by Newcastle on the last day of the season; meaning they finished 3rd in a 2 horse race; all this at a club with no expectations yet even they still sacked him. Yes a manager can't kick the ball for their players but what managers do is install a mentality, not one of hope or excitement, but one of real grit, a strong head, an idea of what to do and how to play when chasing a game, how to manage a game depending on the scoreline and time remaining. Today while we looked like we were trying to score and I'm sure the players were, it was pure chaos, it wasn't calm and measured, there was no shape and a plan to get in behind or lay off the ball for someone; it was players popping up all over the place and at times too close to each other to actually be of any use in the build-up; just pure chaos.

I agree with all that.What happened to 'keep your shape'.

You have to have shape to keep it.We have no shape and that has nothing to do with missing players.

Why was Sterling allowed to do his own thing.?Why was Chilwell playing as a winger again?.These are simple things a manager/coach should see and put right without little thought.

[kev61]

I know I keep harping on about money but how can you build a team when you give a players a seven year contract?.

What incentive is there to give their all - unless they have pride and want to impress the fans.

Their job is done and everything else is whether they could be bothered - absolute madness.

 

[xceleryx]

Just gone through the rest of this thread since going to bed last night after the game, some of what's been said and the overall attitude of people I thought were better than that is astonishing. 

If this is the direction match threads are going to go this season, despite us quite clearly going through a massive overhaul and directional change with young players being at the forefront, then avoiding them may be the way forward. We're a work in progress, this season was ever going to be smooth sailing and we're going to have growing pains. Trying to compare us to what other teams are doing is utterly pointless, none of them have gone through what we have in the last 12-18 months. 

While the performance wasn't great, and the result even worse, shit happens. We're not entitled to either of these things, as much as I'd love for that to be the case. The first sign of things going askew and people are getting their nipples in a twist - get used to it.

End of the day we're not a bad team, there's quite clearly a lot of talent on the books and going through these sorts of challenges will prove to be beneficial learning experiences. There's worse fucking positions to be in, like not having a club at all, or being as disorganised as last season. Shit ain't that grim. 

[kev61]

20 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

. There's worse fucking positions to be in, like not having a club at all, or being as disorganised as last season. Shit ain't that grim. 

Steady.Keep your dignity.Not everyone thinks you talk shite.

[Max Fowler]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

Just gone through the rest of this thread since going to bed last night after the game, some of what's been said and the overall attitude of people I thought were better than that is astonishing. 

If this is the direction match threads are going to go this season, despite us quite clearly going through a massive overhaul and directional change with young players being at the forefront, then avoiding them may be the way forward. We're a work in progress, this season was ever going to be smooth sailing and we're going to have growing pains. Trying to compare us to what other teams are doing is utterly pointless, none of them have gone through what we have in the last 12-18 months. 

While the performance wasn't great, and the result even worse, shit happens. We're not entitled to either of these things, as much as I'd love for that to be the case. The first sign of things going askew and people are getting their nipples in a twist - get used to it.

End of the day we're not a bad team, there's quite clearly a lot of talent on the books and going through these sorts of challenges will prove to be beneficial learning experiences. There's worse fucking positions to be in, like not having a club at all, or being as disorganised as last season. Shit ain't that grim. 

But the irony is Celery, people said the same thing constantly last season under Potter.

Sometimes fans do really see the wood from the trees and saying otherwise is gaslighting.

Much of "what we have gone through" has been self-inflicted by the new owners' strategy.

[kev61]

47 minutes ago, kev61 said:

Steady.Keep your dignity.Not everyone thinks you talk shite.

A quote I'm not proud of. Sorry people- but it's true for some people.

[CarefreeMuratcan]

The biggest pain of last and this season may be that I am getting into a habit of looking forward to MOTD and watching live matches of our rivals, so I can wash the bad taste of our bad performances out and see how vibrant and incisive attacking football can really be when done well. 

[Mark Kelly]

If we look back at this game it simply boils  down to Chelsea not taking their chances and Forest being gifted a goal purely because Pochettino is playing Chilwell as a winger and Colwill as a left back , Silva is sulking because he isn't the captain and we have a                    in goal.

Poch changes those things , takes some inspiration from the way clubs play against us and does the same when we face opposition who are better than us then we should start picking up points.

[Thiago97]

4 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Just gone through the rest of this thread since going to bed last night after the game, some of what's been said and the overall attitude of people I thought were better than that is astonishing. 

If this is the direction match threads are going to go this season, despite us quite clearly going through a massive overhaul and directional change with young players being at the forefront, then avoiding them may be the way forward. We're a work in progress, this season was ever going to be smooth sailing and we're going to have growing pains. Trying to compare us to what other teams are doing is utterly pointless, none of them have gone through what we have in the last 12-18 months. 

While the performance wasn't great, and the result even worse, shit happens. We're not entitled to either of these things, as much as I'd love for that to be the case. The first sign of things going askew and people are getting their nipples in a twist - get used to it.

End of the day we're not a bad team, there's quite clearly a lot of talent on the books and going through these sorts of challenges will prove to be beneficial learning experiences. There's worse fucking positions to be in, like not having a club at all, or being as disorganised as last season. Shit ain't that grim. 

Agreed. I think a few are just still feeling the affects of the last 12 months, which is understandable. It is a case of being very patient again and letting the players and managers work together and build this from a relatively low base. At least we have some time on the training pitch this season.

I think patience is wearing thin after 12-18 months of what has been a complete mess.  Again, I completely get that. However, what has happened in the last 12-18 is not the fault of many of the players here now and the manager, and we need to remember that. 

 

[Blue Moon]

Being that it’s my birthday today, when I formally qualify as an OG, I gave myself an early present and stayed at home, giving some other poor sucker a chance to watch the match from my seat. Glad I did. Sincerely hope we regenerate before Villa. Told the wife that ne t season I’ll let my ST lapse and go watch Cambridge United (my childhood club until my son insisted on “real football”) instead. However, apparently I say that every year…

[My Blood Is Blue]

5 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Just gone through the rest of this thread since going to bed last night after the game, some of what's been said and the overall attitude of people I thought were better than that is astonishing. 

If this is the direction match threads are going to go this season, despite us quite clearly going through a massive overhaul and directional change with young players being at the forefront, then avoiding them may be the way forward. We're a work in progress, this season was ever going to be smooth sailing and we're going to have growing pains. Trying to compare us to what other teams are doing is utterly pointless, none of them have gone through what we have in the last 12-18 months. 

While the performance wasn't great, and the result even worse, shit happens. We're not entitled to either of these things, as much as I'd love for that to be the case. The first sign of things going askew and people are getting their nipples in a twist - get used to it.

End of the day we're not a bad team, there's quite clearly a lot of talent on the books and going through these sorts of challenges will prove to be beneficial learning experiences. There's worse fucking positions to be in, like not having a club at all, or being as disorganised as last season. Shit ain't that grim. 

I hold my hands up as one of those people. I expected this season to be tricky and I expected inconsistency, however, my concern for yesterday is that it looks like nothings changed even though almost all the players have and mainly my frustration comes down to a team selection Poch keeps making that clearly is not working! Colwill LB and Chillwell in a kind of LW position is causing us or sorts of problems. Chilwell is a key player for us and is asked to play out of position every match and it also leaves us with only 2 genuine attacking players on the pitch… even when we’re at home at Nottingham Forest!

Having slept on it, I’m a bit calmer but I m still very concerned about what I’ve seen so far this season. 1 win so far and it was against the team likely to finish bottom.

[My Blood Is Blue]

14 minutes ago, Blue Moon said:

Being that it’s my birthday today, when I formally qualify as an OG, I gave myself an early present and stayed at home, giving some other poor sucker a chance to watch the match from my seat. Glad I did. Sincerely hope we regenerate before Villa. Told the wife that ne t season I’ll let my ST lapse and go watch Cambridge United (my childhood club until my son insisted on “real football”) instead. However, apparently I say that every year…

Happy Birthday mate!

[Holymoly]

6 hours ago, Gurj SS said:

Yep, there's a pattern emerging, it's like the team tries and the moment they come across resistance and a challenge they go into their shell; then from that point onwards it's a match purely based on hope.

We're predictable and we pass for the sake of it because we don't have a plan to break teams down. It's all about triangles, the only person prepared to run at the opposition is Sterling and he blows hot and cold. Clearly he was pissed off by not being in the England squad so has switched off again. It makes you realise where his priorites are.

Mostly I am disappointed with Pochettino, he's beginning to come across as Potter with a funny accent.

[xceleryx]

4 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

But the irony is Celery, people said the same thing constantly last season under Potter.

Sometimes fans do really see the wood from the trees and saying otherwise is gaslighting.

Much of "what we have gone through" has been self-inflicted by the new owners' strategy.

As @Thiago97has gone on to mention the vast majority of those here now weren't here last season. I get wanting to see immediate results, but the reality of the real world doesn't always allow for that to happen. This is a project whether people like it or not, and the sooner that's accepted for what it is by the supporter base as a whole the better it'll be. Unfortunately,  seeing sensationalised headlines quoting £1bn spent etc only serves to add fuel to the fire, despite there being clear context in how that money has been spent and it not all being the same. 

End of the day we're not competing with Man City for a title, nor are we really going to challenge a few of the other sides that we would traditionally do. We may go toe-to-toe with a couple in one off games, but over a long domestic season that requires consistency we'll have the naivety that youth to contend with and the growing pains that come along with it. 

[Chelsea_Matt]

12 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

As @Thiago97has gone on to mention the vast majority of those here now weren't here last season. I get wanting to see immediate results, but the reality of the real world doesn't always allow for that to happen. This is a project whether people like it or not, and the sooner that's accepted for what it is by the supporter base as a whole the better it'll be. Unfortunately,  seeing sensationalised headlines quoting £1bn spent etc only serves to add fuel to the fire, despite there being clear context in how that money has been spent and it not all being the same. 

End of the day we're not competing with Man City for a title, nor are we really going to challenge a few of the other sides that we would traditionally do. We may go toe-to-toe with a couple in one off games, but over a long domestic season that requires consistency we'll have the naivety that youth to contend with and the growing pains that come along with it. 

Yep. It is what it is. I want to see real improvement above all.  However what concerns me is that we are already out of it for the CL again. This means we won’t have that money coming in once more, that aside from damage to our prestige. 

[xceleryx]

22 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

I hold my hands up as one of those people. I expected this season to be tricky and I expected inconsistency, however, my concern for yesterday is that it looks like nothings changed even though almost all the players have and mainly my frustration comes down to a team selection Poch keeps making that clearly is not working! Colwill LB and Chillwell in a kind of LW position is causing us or sorts of problems. Chilwell is a key player for us and is asked to play out of position every match and it also leaves us with only 2 genuine attacking players on the pitch… even when we’re at home at Nottingham Forest!

Having slept on it, I’m a bit calmer but I m still very concerned about what I’ve seen so far this season. 1 win so far and it was against the team likely to finish bottom.

We didn't lose because of what formation we played or who played what or where, we lost because we simply weren't clinical in the final third and saw a mistake punished to the maximum. The two shots on target out of twenty odd altogether says it all. I know this has plagued us in recent years, but it's also something that will happen with a young attack as well. While it's frustrating to see the same end results, we already look vastly better in how we move the ball, how we're not just putting in the same aimless crosses to no one, there's more movement off the ball, and we do generally look improved. 

There are positives to take from game like this and just where we are right now as a whole. We're missing a couple of important players, the group is still fresh and learning each others games, their personalities, and alike, and of course it's a new manager with certain ideas. We can't expect things to just click 4 games into the season, it's going to take a bit of time. 

KTBFFH.

[Mark Kelly]

20 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

We didn't lose because of what formation we played or who played what or where, we lost because we simply weren't clinical in the final third and saw a mistake punished to the maximum. The two shots on target out of twenty odd altogether says it all. I know this has plagued us in recent years, but it's also something that will happen with a young attack as well. While it's frustrating to see the same end results, we already look vastly better in how we move the ball, how we're not just putting in the same aimless crosses to no one, there's more movement off the ball, and we do generally look improved. 

There are positives to take from game like this and just where we are right now as a whole. We're missing a couple of important players, the group is still fresh and learning each others games, their personalities, and alike, and of course it's a new manager with certain ideas. We can't expect things to just click 4 games into the season, it's going to take a bit of time. 

KTBFFH.

Half and half I think , Chilwell at left wing and Colwill at left back meant when the goal was scored neither were in position , Colwill was wrong side of his man and didn't have the acceleration to rectify it . Now , if Chilwell had been playing left back the same thing may have happened but essentially Chilwell and Colwill were caught out at the same time .

In my opinion we need to drop Silva and let Colwill and Desasi forge a partnership and play Chilwell as a left back and get back to 4-2-3-1 with Palmer playing the Nkunku role that we have been missing .

Obviously if , as you say we actually score our expected goals we win , regardless of having two players out of position and a clown in goal.

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Mark Kelly

[johnnybozo]

Gonna be a loooong season again boys and girls. Even longer next season when we don't get CL football and get docked 15 points for breaching FFP 😂

[martin1905]

7 hours ago, bertles86 said:

I've watched a fair bit of pre-season and all matches in the Prem so far. It strikes me that:

* The Nkunku injury has completely ballsed up Pochs plan for the season. 

I agree, however it's quite simple, just play someone else there.

Nkunku's injury shouldn't have meant Colwill playing left back, Chilwell left wing and starting games with 5 defenders and 3 midfielders who barely score. 

Chilwell left wing is an absolute joke, far worse than anything Potter tried, not only is he like a fish out of water but he's one of the best left backs around and we miss him there whilst watching Colwill play there who plays like a centre half, not a single forward run, let alone an overlapping run. Not once in the 4 games he has played there. 

What we are currently seeing, other than us trying a bit more is as bad if not worse than under Potter. 

I'm seriously worried, already, Pochettino doesn't seem himself. His whole demeanor has changed since he arrived. Just look at his early press conferences compared to now. I think he's pissed off.

The owners will be pissed off. We had to have a good start, to have any hope of champions League qualification, especially with our opening fixtures. I don't want to debate whether some think we had no chance and want to score some internet points by wanting to be proved right already, that's not the point.

No champions league football next year destroys this football club and whatever people think it was 100% the aim for this season.

I also think some players will be pissed off.

Chilwell being played out of position and being subbed, fairly early, every game.

Colwill, after signing a new contract being played left back.

Thiago Silva, first few games when Chilwell went off he gave the arm band to Silva who let him put it on then next thing you know he's giving it to Enzo. Yesterday Chilwell went straight to Enzo. This hasn't really been spoken about but it is very strange and points to signs of disharmony.

Mudryk, Madueke and even Palmer can't be too happy seeing the line up each week, and I appreciate Palmer has only been here one game and arrived late, Madueke has been injured but was man of the match against Wimbledon and then on the bench the following game whilst we line up with two attackers on the pitch. It's not just the games those three have been available for, as I'm aware all three haven't been available for all the games, but in general. Three attacking players barely getting a look in whilst we see what we have been seeing. If you were one of them, you'd be asking questions.

Gallagher, as much as Pochettino wants him it could well be that the club were happy to sell him.

Chalobah, clearly the club wanted to sell him.

Maatsen, absolutely no chance he signs a new contract. What's the point when he's not played a single minute, even in pre season, in his actual position and we see a centre half playing there with Chilwell left wing? If anything it would have made more sense to have Maatsen where Chilwell is and Chilwell left back.

I didn't think it could get any worse than Potter, I ignore the period under Frank as it is irrelevant, but right now it really is. If Potter was still in charge and pulling this shit we would be screaming for him to get sacked, already after 4 league games.

Overreacting? Knee jerk? Maybe, but something is not right and it's far deeper than Nkunku getting injured. I think Pochettino is sending the board a message and could already be looking for a way out.

Edited September 3, 2023 by martin1905

[Mark Kelly]

2 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

I agree, however it's quite simple, just play someone else there.

Nkunku's injury shouldn't have meant Colwill playing left back, Chilwell left wing and starting games with 5 defenders and 3 midfielders who barely score. 

Chilwell left wing is an absolute joke, far worse than anything Potter tried, not only is he like a fish out of water but he's one of the best left backs around and we miss him there whilst watching Colwill play there who plays like a centre half, not a single forward run, let alone an overlapping run. Not once in the 4 games he has played there. 

What we are currently seeing, other than us trying a bit more is as bad if not worse than under Potter. 

I'm seriously worried, already, Pochettino doesn't seem himself. His whole demeanor has changed since he arrived. Just look at his early press conferences compared to now. I think he's pissed off.

The owners will be pissed off. We had to have a good start, to have any hope of champions League qualification, especially with our opening fixtures. I don't want to debate whether some think we had no chance and want to score some internet points by wanting to be proved right already, that's not the point.

No champions league football next year destroys this football club and whatever people think it was 100% the aim for this season.

I also think some players will be pissed off.

Chilwell being played out of position and being subbed, fairly early, every game.

Colwill, after signing a new contract being played left back.

Thiago Silva, first few games when Chilwell went off he gave the arm band to Silva who let him put it on then next thing you know he's giving it to Enzo. Yesterday Chilwell went straight to Enzo. This hasn't really been spoken about but it is very strange and points to signs of disharmony.

Mudryk, Madueke and even Palmer can't be too happy seeing the line up each week, and I appreciate Palmer has only been here one game and arrived late, Madueke has been injured but was man of the match against Wimbledon and then on the bench the following game whilst we like up with two attackers on the pitch. It's not just the games those three have been available for, as I'm aware all three haven't been available for all the games, but in general. Three attacking players barely getting a look in whilst we see what we have been seeing. If you were one of them, your be asking questions.

Gallagher, as much as Pochettino wants him it could well be that the club were happy to sell him.

Chalobah, clearly the club wanted to sell him.

Maatsen, absolutely no chance he signs a new contract. What's the point when he's not played a single minute, even in pre season, in his actual position and we see a centre half playing there with Chilwell left wing. If anything it would have made more sense to have Maatsen where Chilwell is and Chilwell left back.

I didn't think it could get any worse than Potter, I ignore the period under Frank as it is irrelevant, but right now it really is. If Potter was still in charge and pulling this shit we would be screaming for him to get sacked, already after 4 league games.

Overreacting? Knee jerk? Maybe, but something is not right and it's far deeper than Nkunku getting injured. I think Pochettino is sending the board a message and could already be looking for a way out.

Let's not forget his post match comments about needing to be "mature" when he's surrounded by kids.

[martin1905]

Let's have it right, these owners have put us through the worst period of football we have seen in a very long time. I would argue it's the worst period ever as previously, even pre Roman, it wasn't self inflicted.

I do not think they are in the slightest bit bothered about what happens on the pitch, only using players as part of their investment portfolio.

We are in trouble. We may never get out of it. I'm gonna start seeing if us fans can do something about it now or we end up like United but far worse. I know they won't give a shit but at least we, as fans, can get Infront of it.

[Ham]

1 hour ago, Blue Moon said:

Being that it’s my birthday today, when I formally qualify as an OG, I gave myself an early present and stayed at home, giving some other poor sucker a chance to watch the match from my seat. Glad I did. Sincerely hope we regenerate before Villa. Told the wife that ne t season I’ll let my ST lapse and go watch Cambridge United (my childhood club until my son insisted on “real football”) instead. However, apparently I say that every year…

Happy birthday Phil 👍

[martin1905]

I know I have spoken fairly highly of the owners up until this morning but a lot of what I write is to cause debate, it's a forum after all, and there's a few on here I debate with all the time. Always have and always will. If we didn't I probably wouldn't still be active on here. Me and @ROTGfor example always see things differently on here but take away the forum and I'm sure we're more likely to be on the same page, or at least at some middle ground.

This morning though, my true feelings are coming out and I am seriously worried about the future of this football club.

Pochettino will be gone by Christmas.

We will be mid table all season.

Enzo will want out next summer.

There's three predictions for @ROTG that, as he says, we will know more later........