Chelsea 0 Nottingham Forest 1

[Bison]

16 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

I agree, however it's quite simple, just play someone else there.

Nkunku's injury shouldn't have meant Colwill playing left back, Chilwell left wing and starting games with 5 defenders and 3 midfielders who barely score. 

Chilwell left wing is an absolute joke, far worse than anything Potter tried, not only is he like a fish out of water but he's one of the best left backs around and we miss him there whilst watching Colwill play there who plays like a centre half, not a single forward run, let alone an overlapping run. Not once in the 4 games he has played there. 

What we are currently seeing, other than us trying a bit more is as bad if not worse than under Potter. 

I'm seriously worried, already, Pochettino doesn't seem himself. His whole demeanor has changed since he arrived. Just look at his early press conferences compared to now. I think he's pissed off.

The owners will be pissed off. We had to have a good start, to have any hope of champions League qualification, especially with our opening fixtures. I don't want to debate whether some think we had no chance and want to score some internet points by wanting to be proved right already, that's not the point.

No champions league football next year destroys this football club and whatever people think it was 100% the aim for this season.

I also think some players will be pissed off.

Chilwell being played out of position and being subbed, fairly early, every game.

Colwill, after signing a new contract being played left back.

Thiago Silva, first few games when Chilwell went off he gave the arm band to Silva who let him put it on then next thing you know he's giving it to Enzo. Yesterday Chilwell went straight to Enzo. This hasn't really been spoken about but it is very strange and points to signs of disharmony.

Mudryk, Madueke and even Palmer can't be too happy seeing the line up each week, and I appreciate Palmer has only been here one game and arrived late, Madueke has been injured but was man of the match against Wimbledon and then on the bench the following game whilst we line up with two attackers on the pitch. It's not just the games those three have been available for, as I'm aware all three haven't been available for all the games, but in general. Three attacking players barely getting a look in whilst we see what we have been seeing. If you were one of them, you'd be asking questions.

Gallagher, as much as Pochettino wants him it could well be that the club were happy to sell him.

Chalobah, clearly the club wanted to sell him.

Maatsen, absolutely no chance he signs a new contract. What's the point when he's not played a single minute, even in pre season, in his actual position and we see a centre half playing there with Chilwell left wing? If anything it would have made more sense to have Maatsen where Chilwell is and Chilwell left back.

I didn't think it could get any worse than Potter, I ignore the period under Frank as it is irrelevant, but right now it really is. If Potter was still in charge and pulling this shit we would be screaming for him to get sacked, already after 4 league games.

Overreacting? Knee jerk? Maybe, but something is not right and it's far deeper than Nkunku getting injured. I think Pochettino is sending the board a message and could already be looking for a way out.

No matter what our intentions are as a football club or the squad we have, the players we buy etc etc etc we almost always end up with a negative football manager and depressing football.

Giving our rebuild to somebody who thinks Chilwell is a good option at LW, plays Colwill LB despite having THREE leftbacks in his squad and is afraid to drop his 40 year old CB is crazy even for our already low standards.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Bison

[martin1905]

14 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Let's not forget his post match comments about needing to be "mature" when he's surrounded by kids.

100% aimed at the board.

I doubt when we were talking to Pochettino we told him he'd have £500m to spend this summer but not have any say on any of the players we bring in and we would spend a good chunk of that money on south American children who will never play a minute for us.

A billion pound in 12 months to become a mid table team. We should be the best team in the world by a mile, we just got beat at home by Nottingham Forest.

Edited September 3, 2023 by martin1905

[My Blood Is Blue]

37 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

We didn't lose because of what formation we played or who played what or where, we lost because we simply weren't clinical in the final third and saw a mistake punished to the maximum. The two shots on target out of twenty odd altogether says it all. I know this has plagued us in recent years, but it's also something that will happen with a young attack as well. While it's frustrating to see the same end results, we already look vastly better in how we move the ball, how we're not just putting in the same aimless crosses to no one, there's more movement off the ball, and we do generally look improved. 

There are positives to take from game like this and just where we are right now as a whole. We're missing a couple of important players, the group is still fresh and learning each others games, their personalities, and alike, and of course it's a new manager with certain ideas. We can't expect things to just click 4 games into the season, it's going to take a bit of time. 

KTBFFH.

You say that, but had we had an actual attacking player on the left wing we’d have had more ‘specialists’ in front of goal to give us better chance at converting our chances (although, it being chelsea, that may not be the case). Also, having Colwill at LB means Chilwell isn’t there and he’s one of the best in the league in that position, Colwill does not play this role naturally at all, he never attacks, never overlaps the midfield or attack to offer an extra man and it means our left winger (who’s a defender) gets outnumbered or we end up just going down the right all the time and the opposition can double up over there.

Im not saying it’s the only reason we lost and we HAVE to get more clinical in the final 3rd, but the decisions Poch is making are not helping us at the moment.

[NFAS]

1 hour ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

Yep. It is what it is. I want to see real improvement above all.  However what concerns me is that we are already out of it for the CL again. This means we won’t have that money coming in once more, that aside from damage to our prestige. 

Well if we’re out of it does that mean newcastles out of it?

[RDCW]

2 hours ago, Blue Moon said:

Being that it’s my birthday today, when I formally qualify as an OG, I gave myself an early present and stayed at home, giving some other poor sucker a chance to watch the match from my seat. Glad I did. Sincerely hope we regenerate before Villa. Told the wife that ne t season I’ll let my ST lapse and go watch Cambridge United (my childhood club until my son insisted on “real football”) instead. However, apparently I say that every year…

Happy Birthday!

[Thiago97]

34 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

I know I have spoken fairly highly of the owners up until this morning but a lot of what I write is to cause debate, it's a forum after all, and there's a few on here I debate with all the time. Always have and always will. If we didn't I probably wouldn't still be active on here. Me and @ROTGfor example always see things differently on here but take away the forum and I'm sure we're more likely to be on the same page, or at least at some middle ground.

This morning though, my true feelings are coming out and I am seriously worried about the future of this football club.

Pochettino will be gone by Christmas.

We will be mid table all season.

Enzo will want out next summer.

There's three predictions for @ROTG that, as he says, we will know more later........

Too early for any bold predictions. We just have to give it all time. I’m not gonna start judging anything , or forming any opinions , until we get up to around 15-20 games. The only thing I will predict is we will be inconsistent throughout this period. 

[xceleryx]

27 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

You say that, but had we had an actual attacking player on the left wing we’d have had more ‘specialists’ in front of goal to give us better chance at converting our chances (although, it being chelsea, that may not be the case). Also, having Colwill at LB means Chilwell isn’t there and he’s one of the best in the league in that position, Colwill does not play this role naturally at all, he never attacks, never overlaps the midfield or attack to offer an extra man and it means our left winger (who’s a defender) gets outnumbered or we end up just going down the right all the time and the opposition can double up over there.

Im not saying it’s the only reason we lost and we HAVE to get more clinical in the final 3rd, but the decisions Poch is making are not helping us at the moment.

We had more "specialists" on the pitch in the second half and it changed nothing either. Like, I get the sentiment of more attackers should equal a higher probability of scoring but it's also not that straightforward. Having Colwill at LB also means having a far better passer on the ball to build from the back with. I mean, we've already seen in the few games this season that having Colwill at LB has allowed us to get more ball down the channel and in behind, something we just don't really get from Chilly when he's there, instead we get runner that's more willing and capable of pushing high up the pitch and trying to get in behind himself. There is more rhyme and reason to this move then some may believe, whether they agree or not is another thing and everyone is entitled to their opinion on that. We also shouldn't forget that Noni is only just coming back from injury, and Mudryk had a knock himself, with Nkunku also out longer term. Some of the decisions made could also very well be linked to these factors on top. 

For the record I also actually want Chilwell back at left-back and another attacker in the side, but also recognise where we're at currently option wise. 

[Chelsea_Matt]

20 minutes ago, NFAS said:

Well if we’re out of it does that mean newcastles out of it?

I don’t care. But we are.

[My Blood Is Blue]

39 minutes ago, NFAS said:

Well if we’re out of it does that mean newcastles out of it?

Possibly, but the big difference so far is that Newcastle have 3 points after 4 games, but have played the teams who finished last season 7th, 1st, 5th and 6th whereas we have 4 points after 4 games having played teams who finished last season 5th, 14th, 23rd and 16th.

If we want CL football, we need to have come out of those matches with 9 points minimum whereas Newcastle would probably be thinking 4/5 points minimum. So we're 5 points off of where we would want to be and Newcastle are 1/2 points off.

All that I've said is pretty irrelevant though as we're 4 games in and we have a LONG way to go. Nothing should be counted in or out yet, but I personally am not expecting us to get CL football next season anyway. We need to be back in Europe next year and think we should be aiming for Europa and anything more a big bonus.

[JonnyCFC]

I was at the game yesterday and have to say it was a demoralising experience. I was excited before the game thinking we could push on from the Luton result and get our season going, however what I witnessed was a bit of a wake up call for where we currently are.

Two things stood out for me, firstly we didn’t look like a team, no fluidity to our play, disjointed and stagnant all over the pitch. Maybe this is to be expected to a point as many of these players have only just started playing together, however the performance felt really flat for long periods, I would at least expect to see a higher energy and urgency. Second point, as the game progressed and the realisation set in that this was a poor performance in a game we should really be doing better in, I was thinking about which players could turn it around, show some leadership and kick the team up the backside and come back in the game, I couldn’t see anyone out there that was going to do that which is a real worry. Maybe that will come in time and the true leaders will establish themselves, I hope so.

The second half was really frustrating, as far as I could tell Forest sat back and defended tight to all our players except for Disasi, they were happy to leave him alone and he saw lots of the ball as he was our out, of course their reason for this was he posed no threat, just looked slow and kept knocking easy sideways passes, it was so pedestrian. This pattern continued and was so predictable, same thing over and over. It felt like we could have played for another hour and not create a decent chance, let alone score.

I was sat in the Matthew Harding Lower yesterday behind the goal and this was my first chance to get a look at Sanchez up close. Have to say he doesn’t fill me with any confidence, always looks like he’s going to spill the ball, even with lightweight shots.

This was our worst performance so far in the league this season, against West Ham and the victims we could and should have won, we looked decent and played some good stuff at times. We didn’t see anything yesterday, a really poor performance.

However, it’s still early days so I don’t want to be all doom and gloom, Palmer looked good when he came on and there is talent in this squad, with a few tweaks and some time playing together let’s hope things improve. As I left the game yesterday I was thinking this squad has no chance of top 4, more like mid table if we’re lucky, I suspect we will end up somewhere between 6th and mid table, think we have to accept this is going to take time, but really accept it and be realistic with our expectations.

There was booing from the crowd at the final whistle, I hate that, I’ve never booed a Chels team and never will. This is a young squad so how is booing them going to help? If anything it just adds more pressure and gets in thier heads to make things worse. We need to get behind this squad and try to support and help push them on.

 

[Rob B]

I made this point a few weeks ago and I think it remains our Achilles Heel -  we do not have enough goals in our starting 11 / squad.

Conceding one goal at home to Nottingham Forest should not mean you lose the game. Hell, it shouldn’t even mean you draw the game.

Man City conceded a goal to Fulham yesterday, Spurs conceded two to Burnley and Brighton conceded to Newcastle - all three won their games comfortably. 

Son, Haaland and Evan Ferguson all got hat tricks - we don’t have a single player in the squad capable of that and we will struggle with consistent results until we address that.

We weren’t that  bad yesterday.  Loads of teams play like we did and come away with a 2-1 win all the time.  But to spend a billion on players to end up with a young Jackson and Broja as your centre-forwards is unbelievable.  Like genuinely unbelievable. 

Poch needs to get Chilwell back to LB immediately and get another (proper) attacking player on the pitch.  Based on yesterday, that should be Cole Palmer. 

[Holymoly]

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

Let's have it right, these owners have put us through the worst period of football we have seen in a very long time. I would argue it's the worst period ever as previously, even pre Roman, it wasn't self inflicted.

I don't know about that mate. I've lived the rollercoaster of Chelsea FC since the sixties and we weren't called champagne Charlies for nothing. After Dave Sexton departed for Manure the squads have always been a case of crisis management. 

We are now an extremely young inexperienced squad. It is not just a question of time as the longer this goes on without leadership both on and off the pitch the more likely the malaise will bed in and the players will never fully recover.

What has been more worrying however is that the manager has been seen wanting, in both his tactics and his substitutions. He is now just reacting, a sure sign of there being no overarching plan or at least no confidence in one if one indeed exists.

Not an ideal way to go into the break. And I've stopped looking forward to the season. Not happy.

[boratsbrother]

10 hours ago, kev61 said:

"Concerning"? it's lunacy if true.I hear some people saying we miss Nkunku  and James as if everything  we be ok when they return....Codswollop!.There is enough quality in the squad to easily beat Forest at home.

I'm really beginning to believe our new owners haven't a clue and I don't say that without thought.

Caisedo cost 3 times as much as Spurs paid for Madison. If we offered Spurs a player exchange do you think they'd take it? Me neither! We could even throw in Cucu to make it £180million pounds worth of our players for £40 million of theirs and I'd bet they still would take the offer. That is the scale of our horrendous overpaying for players.

Edited September 3, 2023 by boratsbrother

[Backbiter]

16 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

Just seen we made 668 passes in that game and managed 2 shots on target 

Is it me or does that look like scant reward given the build up? 

Poch needs to grow a pair and get us playing. 

The backroom staff (and Boehly) are big on data and will be thrilled that we have a 100% record so far, in the alternative reality of xG. We outscored Forest 2.28 to 1.15. Possession-wise we are destroying teams, and our passing stats are impressive.

If only we could prevent the opposition's first shot on target being a goal, we might do OK, as winning games when we concede first is something the stats say we are absolutely appalling at.

It's incredible how we've just picked up where we left off last season.

 

 

[Backbiter]

41 minutes ago, JonnyCFC said:

 

The second half was really frustrating, as far as I could tell Forest sat back and defended tight to all our players except for Disasi, they were happy to leave him alone and he saw lots of the ball as he was our out, of course their reason for this was he posed no threat, just looked slow and kept knocking easy sideways passes, it was so pedestrian. This pattern continued and was so predictable, same thing over and over. It felt like we could have played for another hour and not create a decent chance, let alone score.

 

 

The first half was pretty good in terms of build-up play, but the second was an exact replica of West Ham away. The opposition defended in numbers, let us have the ball, frustrated us and punished us on the break. 

A winning formula for anyone against us.

[Mark Kelly]

To add insult to injury, I've just seen the Spurs game and they're playing pretty much exactly how we were playing preseason. 

[Chelsea_Matt]

2 hours ago, martin1905 said:

Let's have it right, these owners have put us through the worst period of football we have seen in a very long time. I would argue it's the worst period ever as previously, even pre Roman, it wasn't self inflicted.

I do not think they are in the slightest bit bothered about what happens on the pitch, only using players as part of their investment portfolio.

We are in trouble. We may never get out of it. I'm gonna start seeing if us fans can do something about it now or we end up like United but far worse. I know they won't give a shit but at least we, as fans, can get Infront of it.

Not ever. How can a billion pounds be spent and it be the worst period ever?

For all their mistakes - which I think in the main came from a good place and possibly one inexperience, I think Todd ‘n’ Eggy do care about results. How can they not?

When we were so poor in the late 1970s - we literally didn’t score for months - and when we were relegated in 1987. Those were pretty grim times. 
 

[Miguelito07]

How was Palner’s performance when he came on?

[boratsbrother]

I said earlier in the thread that the way things are going we might become involved in a relegation battle, but having read an alarming stat I was wrong about that. We've taken 29 points from our last 33 games, so if we don't improve we will be certainties for relegation, not a relegation battle.

[Sciatika]

Stating the obvious (and probably repeating what others have already said):

a) We need to go to a back four not to make the defence more solid, though I am in favour of that, but to make the attack more potent. I would play Gusto---Disasi---Colwill---Chillwell in front of Sanchez or Petrovic, Put Caicedo or Lavia in front of them as a creative base and play the other five up front. To be honest, I don't much care if it's a 4-1-2-3, a 4-1-3-2,  a 4-1-14 or a 4-1-4-1. To me, if they are moving then they are all the same. One or other of the backs can go forward in possession to support the midfield or add width, if necessary. We need to settle on building the central defensive relationship based on Colwill plus another and Disasi is fit.

b) Work on breaking down teams who are defending deep. Emphasise the need to stretch play laterally and vertically, the need to run at the defender (because defenders hate that and it leads to free kicks and pens) and the need to get behind the defence so they are facing the wrong way (they hate that too).

c) Play at pace (it's the other thing defenders hate). Too often, our buildup is pedestrian. In passing, one touch, two at most, and constant movement so that you are always available to receive the ball. If you need to wait for teammates, hold the ball using your body. When the opportunity arises with a gap then take the ball through the gap. Defenders will instinctively stick out a leg or an arm to stop you.

d) We really need to be looking at our finishing. The people up front know how to score, but they need to learn how to not not score and to do that instinctively. It sounds stupid, but if Enzo, Jackson, Mudryck, Sterling, Gallagher, et al had consistently hit the target, whilst avoiding the goalkeeper, I firmly believe that we would have at least 9 points now even with the defensive lapses.

None of this should need to be said.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Sciatika

[My Blood Is Blue]

11 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

Stating the obvious (and probably repeating what others have already said):

a) We need to go to a back four not to make the defence more solid, though I am in favour of that, but to make the attack more potent. I would play Gusto---Disasi---Colwill---Chillwell in front of Sanchez or Petrovic, Put Caicedo or Lavia in front of them as a creative base and play the other five up front. To be honest, I don't much care if it's a 4-1-2-3, a 4-1-3-2,  a 4-1-14 or a 4-1-4-1. To me, if they are moving then they are all the same. One or other of the backs can go forward in possession to support the midfield or add width, if necessary. We need to settle on building the central defensive relationship based on Colwill plus another and Disasi is fit.

b) Work on breaking down teams who are defending deep. Emphasise the need to stretch play laterally and vertically, the need to run at the defender (because defenders hate that and it leads to free kicks and pens) and the need to get behind the defence so they are facing the wrong way (they hate that too).

c) Play at pace (it's the other thing defenders hate). Too often, our buildup is pedestrian. In passing, one touch, two at most, and constant movement so that you are always available to receive the ball. If you need to wait for teammates, hold the ball using your body. When the opportunity arises with a gap then take the ball through the gap. Defenders will instinctively stick out a leg or an arm to stop you.

d) We really need to be looking at our finishing. The people up front know how to score, but they need to learn how to not not score and to do that instinctively. It sounds stupid, but if Enzo, Jackson, Mudryck, Sterling, Gallagher, et al had consistently hit the target, whilst avoiding the goalkeeper, I firmly believe that we would have at least 9 points now even with the defensive lapses.

None of this should need to be said.

This is the worrying thing though, none of it needs to be said and Poch has a fresh new squad, not one that should be held back by the failures of last season and how they were asked to play, yet obviously, this is currently how Poch is asking them to play. In fairness to him, he hasn't had much time yet to impose a style of play, but he could at least start getting the right balance between defensive and attacking players.

[Floyd25]

The only way spending all of this money pays off for these owners is with success, doesn’t have to be immediate, but at least gradual and we don’t look close. Getting back in to Europe was an obvious goal for this season, didn’t have to be top four, but back in to the Europa league or at the very least the conference league. 
 

These naive owners don’t understand the value of experience, they’ve got one answer and that’s spend more money on youth, as if that’s what we need. It might be a process and we might need to be patient, but I’m not going to sit here and drink the kool aid and be fine with dropping points every weekend and call it a few bumps in the road, we need signs of progress. 

[Original 21]

3 hours ago, Rob B said:

 But to spend a billion on players to end up with a young Jackson and Broja as your centre-forwards is unbelievable.  Like genuinely unbelievable. 

I can’t believe someone would actually decide this was a good idea.  No matter how promising Jackson looked in preseason, he’s completely unproven in the Premier league, and Broja is coming off the back of a serious injury.

It must be that we’ve got a belief that Toney is coming in January and Poch has been told to make do until then. Otherwise it’s just negligence. It’s risky enough, even if a proven striker is arriving, as we’d be hoping they’d hit the ground running. It’s just extraordinary we’re actually in this mess. 

[My Blood Is Blue]

Liverpool and Palace each scoring 3 today as well, it just feels like every team knows how to score apart from us!

[Max Fowler]

I thought we were pretty good first half and looked better than we have since the Tuchel era, without creating very much. Our patterns of play were much better, we were more direct, the new additions were showing their worth.

The second half was woeful. An absolute disaster. You simply cannot concede when we did, and once we did we needed something more from Poch than just a couple of attacking subs on at 60 mins, then a couple more on 70.

It's so frustrating watching us sleepwalk to another loss against a low block. We need to try something different, throw the proverbial kitchen sink at it. Unfortunately, as has been pointed out, we don't have any strikers on the bench.

What concerns me most is not Poch, because I never thought he was the right guy to win us trophies again, even if I came to accept he was a good fit for the transition. Now Potter is gone, I think the owners will be quicker to ditch Poch if needed.

I am most concerned about these owners. Reputable reports we wouldn't sign anyone over 25 this summer is damning. I looked at our squad yesterday and simply thought - why have we not bought more experienced players in attacking areas?

I thought we learned about inexperience at the highest level with Potter. Now apparently we're making the same mistake with our squad. And I am worried we need to make Champions League football this season due to FFP or what happens next?

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Max Fowler