Chelsea 0 Nottingham Forest 1

[xceleryx]

8 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Eh ok? So if you play players who are more clinical in the final third than other players who aren’t, it won’t make a difference? 

We are where we are not because we have swapped 75% of the team and the manager. We are where we are because we still don’t understand that the three  most important positions on the pitch is;

1) Top GK

2) Proven goalscorer

3) Top defender

We have neither of those. 

 

I also said that we had more attacking players on the pitch in the second half and it made no difference. The point is that more attacking players doesn't automatically equate to more clinical end product in the final third. A lot of it purely hinges on the quality of the individuals, and for us we've got a young attacking group that are still trying to find their feet a little at this level, the exceptions being Sterling and to a degree Nkunku - the latter arguably the most clinical player we've got and he's not even available.

Correct, we don't - yet. So if you're willing to acknowledge these things why are people being so uptight? Either adjust exceptions based on what we do have, or routinely complain about what we don't and be an absolute punish for the entire season. It's not that difficult of a process to come to grips with where we are as a club at present and that we're going to need a bit of time. 

Would I like to have all three of those areas of needs met, absolutely. I'm also well aware that top GK's are few and far between in general, much less available. Similar sentiment resides with the proven goalscorer, ironically enough we did buy one a couple seasons back and that's ended in disaster. 

[xceleryx]

9 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

We spent 151 million Euros on Disasi, Palmer, Ugochukwu, Petrovic, and Washington this summer.

We could have put all that money into one statement, marquee forward signing like Oshimen.

And still ended up with Caicedo, Lavia, Jackson, Sanchez, and Angelo coming in.

Does anyone not think that would have been a better strategy? As much as I like Palmer.

What is the point in buying youth if you get sanctioned for failing to bring in enough revenue?

No team is getting Oshimen for €150m, we know what ADL and Napoli are like with their star players. You either pay completely out the nose, or they don't move at all until their contracts expire. 

We've also been burnt before paying big money of CF's and then seeing them flounder here. We then complain about what we paid for them, the cost they retain being here, and the inability to move them. There is no winning here, whether we spend big on one player, or big on a collective, people still find a way to complain regardless. 

[xceleryx]

10 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

We sent people to watch Oshimen play a few games and they were not impressed with what they saw and thought he was not worth the money. But they are probably the same people who passed up on the chance to buy Madison for a bargin fee.

🤡🤡🤡

He's not wroth the money Napoli, or more specifically ADL, would demand. He's had one top tier season, has questionable injury history, and as someone that has seen their share of Oshimen play I am not entirely convinced he'd have the same impact he has in Serie A in the PL. 

Not that I don't rate him or wouldn't take him here, but after spending near abouts £100m on Lukaku I'd be wary doing it again on another CF.

 

[xceleryx]

5 hours ago, jasonb said:

Does Disasi speak English?

Silva speaks French this might be part of our current defensive  defensive thinking rather than relying on a young Colwil to communicate with Disasi in a back four.

I hark back to those days when we had a Leboef or Alex that could score a goal from defence at about 35 yards. 

Yeah, Disasi speaks English fine. He speaks English in his first day at Stamford Bridge video. 

[kev61]

18 hours ago, Holymoly said:

 

Mostly I am disappointed with Pochettino, he's beginning to come across as Potter with a funny accent.

This is the most disappointing thing for me.Most people(me included)thought he would be the answer to our problems.

Pains me to say it but he has already looked clueless.I hope it is me that is clueless(very possible)but when you see someone get basic things wrong your heart sinks.

[kev61]

17 hours ago, martin1905 said:

Let's have it right, these owners have put us through the worst period of football we have seen in a very long time. I would argue it's the worst period ever as previously, even pre Roman, it wasn't self inflicted.

I do not think they are in the slightest bit bothered about what happens on the pitch, only using players as part of their investment portfolio.

We are in trouble. We may never get out of it. I'm gonna start seeing if us fans can do something about it now or we end up like United but far worse. I know they won't give a shit but at least we, as fans, can get Infront of it.

So much optimism  and expectation - looking like a damp squib now....woe is me.  

[Max Fowler]

32 minutes ago, kev61 said:

This is the most disappointing thing for me.Most people(me included)thought he would be the answer to our problems.

Pains me to say it but he has already looked clueless.I hope it is me that is clueless(very possible)but when you see someone get basic things wrong your heart sinks.

I will repeat what I said at the time and got lambasted for - most overrated manager of the last decade.

His career is a history of nearly moments and outright failures. And yet he is an absolute media darling.

[kev61]

6 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I will repeat what I said at the time and got lambasted for - most overrated manager of the last decade.

His career is a history of nearly moments and outright failures. And yet he is an absolute media darling.

I fear you could be right.We are playing in a  formation that players don't understand.

I will give Poch until Christmas to wise up.If he doesn't then sack him and move on.

 

[Michael Tucker]

37 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I will repeat what I said at the time and got lambasted for - most overrated manager of the last decade.

From what I've seen of him, and heard from him so far I think that you're right. Clueless. Hopefully it's just settling-in nerves - if it isn't, then we're all in for a very long season!

[kev61]

3 hours ago, DannyLB said:

 Very true point. I had made a point to a couple of buddies (who support Liverpool and United, for whatever that is worth) in which I claimed that there isn’t much of a difference between most top teams in this league. The ones that stand out have players that can finish, whereas we do not. We do well in all stats except the one that matters, scoring goals. It’s strange but our seasons success relies on Jackson becoming a goal scorer and hoping he stays fit. Yet again I don’t see where the goals will come from unless Sterling, Palmer and eventually Nkunku surprise us with turning into reliable goal scorers. 

Scoring goals is not the only remit of a centre forward.

[Michael Tucker]

28 minutes ago, kev61 said:

Scoring goals is not the only remit of a centre forward.

No, but it helps.

[xceleryx]

2 hours ago, kev61 said:

This is the most disappointing thing for me.Most people(me included)thought he would be the answer to our problems.

Pains me to say it but he has already looked clueless.I hope it is me that is clueless(very possible)but when you see someone get basic things wrong your heart sinks.

We're four games into the season and we're already seeing terms like "clueless" and "disappointing" being banded about. 

For context in Poch's first season at Tottenham his side had a record of 6 wins, 2 draws and 6 losses by the beginning of December. 

They then recorded only 6 more losses for the remainder of the season, with a further 13 wins and 5 draws. 

He's going to need some time, not just from a general new manager perspective either. This is also a new squad playing together for the first time, with a host of new faces experiencing English football for the first time also, plus we're obviously a very young side, and we're also missing a couple of key figures on top already. 

We certainly were't going to see champagne football from day one.

[kev61]

1 hour ago, Max Fowler said:

I will repeat what I said at the time and got lambasted for - most overrated manager of the last decade.

His career is a history of nearly moments and outright failures. And yet he is an absolute media darling.

How would you rate Mourhino?.

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

We certainly were't going to see champagne football from day one.

After spending £1b you would hope to be close. 
 

Personal and not being his biggest fan, I do not blame poch, the fault lies with the winstanley, Stewart and shield who have recruited some P1ss poor playing staff. 
If people want to vent anger It should be towards them. 
 

Poch is only as good as the hand he has been dealt. 

[kev61]

5 minutes ago, ROTG said:

After spending £1b you would hope to be close. 
 

 

Poch is only as good as the hand he has been dealt. 

That's a tad trite.He has an array of talent at his disposal.

He isn't using it so far imo.

 

[ROTG]

28 minutes ago, kev61 said:

That's a tad trite.He has an array of talent at his disposal.

He isn't using it so far imo.

 

You could be right on players selection, wrong on player quantity. Not many, if any who would walk into the starting lineup of the top teams 

Mid Point of the season is a better time to decide how good the squad is. 

Edited September 4, 2023 by ROTG

[kev61]

17 minutes ago, ROTG said:

You could be right on players selection, wrong on player quantity. Not many, if any who would walk into the starting lineup of the top teams 

Mid Point of the season is a better time to decide how good the squad is. 

There is only one top team in the premiership.

We have imo the players that can get a top 4 place.If poch  can't us in that position at christmas he should be sacked.

Edited September 4, 2023 by kev61

[xceleryx]

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

After spending £1b you would hope to be close. 
 

Personal and not being his biggest fan, I do not blame poch, the fault lies with the winstanley, Stewart and shield who have recruited some P1ss poor playing staff. 
If people want to vent anger It should be towards them. 
 

Poch is only as good as the hand he has been dealt. 

Sure, if you're dense enough to take the £1bn spent at face value, a commonly had theme the media really love to be pushing at present. In a more contextualised reality we know that not all that value has been put into immediate proven quality or needs, a lot of it since January of last season has been invested towards the future. Whether it pays off, be it from a business or football perspective, we'll only find out down the line. 

The big issue is there's a clear disconnect between our historic reputation as a club, where we are in the present day, and the approach taken with large sums of money invested into a talent based route that'll take some time to reap the benefits from. There's a portion that understand the situation, there's others that simply cannot wrap their heads around it for one reason or another. 

Edited September 4, 2023 by xceleryx
spelling

[Thiago97]

5 hours ago, kev61 said:

This is the most disappointing thing for me.Most people(me included)thought he would be the answer to our problems.

Pains me to say it but he has already looked clueless.I hope it is me that is clueless(very possible)but when you see someone get basic things wrong your heart sinks.

It’s 4 games! What basic things is he getting wrong ? The only answer you have for this really is play Chilwell at lb, because that fits your understanding of how football teams set up. 
We don’t actually know if this so right or wrong though. We could have started Chilwell at LB in a conventional back four and maybe only have 3 pts. So we don’t actually know he is getting any ‘ basic things wrong’

The reality is we are not not going to start to understand the team and manager for at least another 5-10 games. We just need to wait and see how the situation develops over time.

I don’t get this fascination people have these days (not aimed at you Kev) to go early on everything. This is some sort of cultural change that has been brought about by social media imo. Everything is either amazing or shit. The pragmatic middle ground no longer seems to exist or viewed as sitting on the fence. It’s ridiculous really. It’s like people are so desperate for a little bit of kudos and getting something right these days, that they have to be bullish about everything. Piers f@@king Morgan another one of these parasites that has normalised this culture by convincing everyone to have an option on everything!

Anyway rant over! Just get a grip some of you…..even if you did call it correct and early. Well done ! 

[Mark Kelly]

2 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

Anyway rant over! Just get a grip some of you…..even if you did call it correct and early. Well done ! 

From my perspective the only thing I cannot understand regarding Chilwell at left back or left wing is , why , when it was working so well in pre season , has he changed it  ?

There's no benefit to it that I can see , Chilwell isn't over lapping his winger as he IS the winger and Colwill isn't crossing the half way line to play the "Chilwell" role.

Why change a winning formula for one that makes us weaker and easier to pay against , especially when we have three legitimate wingers on the bench?

[Chelsea_Matt]

1 minute ago, Mark Kelly said:

From my perspective the only thing I cannot understand regarding Chilwell at left back or left wing is , why , when it was working so well in pre season , has he changed it  ?

There's no benefit to it that I can see , Chilwell isn't over lapping his winger as he IS the winger and Colwill isn't crossing the half way line to play the "Chilwell" role.

Why change a winning formula for one that makes us weaker and easier to pay against , especially when we have three legitimate wingers on the bench?

My particular issue is the mentality of the team. Oddly I don’t worry too much about what I felt was our physicality issue as we have that, imo. I just think we’re still too nice. Hopefully Poch should be able to change that. I don’t want us to kick our way to wins but we do need to mix our game up.

On goals, I do think Action Jackson is great but the missed chance against the Tricky Trees was all too reminiscent of recent times as Chelsea being the striker’s graveyard; I don’t care about other attributes:  I want him to score first and foremost. If that goes in we scrape a draw and while not ideal, the atmosphere changes.

[Thiago97]

4 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

From my perspective the only thing I cannot understand regarding Chilwell at left back or left wing is , why , when it was working so well in pre season , has he changed it  ?

There's no benefit to it that I can see , Chilwell isn't over lapping his winger as he IS the winger and Colwill isn't crossing the half way line to play the "Chilwell" role.

Why change a winning formula for one that makes us weaker and easier to pay against , especially when we have three legitimate wingers on the bench?

Yeah I get that Mark. I’m not saying this should not be questioned in any way, I think your questioning is perfect reasonable.

I just don’t believe that this change is the difference between 4pts now and possible 9pts if we had done that. It’s all such fine margins either way and this seems to be the constant moan many are hanging their early season form/results on. The reality is we just don’t know. 

[Thiago97]

2 minutes ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

My particular issue is the mentality of the team. Oddly I don’t worry too much about what I felt was our physicality issue as we have that, imo. I just think we’re still too nice. Hopefully Poch should be able to change that. I don’t want us to kick our way to wins but we do need to mix our game up.

On goals, I do think Action Jackson is great but the missed chance against the Tricky Trees was all too reminiscent of recent times as Chelsea being the striker’s graveyard; I don’t care about other attributes:  I want him to score first and foremost. If that goes in we scrape a draw and while not ideal, the atmosphere changes.

The mentality has been a long standing problem form about 2-3 years now. I flagged last season the amount of times we concede just before or just after half time….Saturday another example.

At the same time, when you dramatically change the average age of your team/squad, then mentality and game management will take a dip. Again, this is something Poch needs to change over time. Without coming across as prejudice, he is from the right footballing culture and background to have a positive impact on this though 😁

[McCreadie]

39 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

It’s 4 games! 

I don’t get this fascination people have these days (not aimed at you Kev) to go early on everything. This is some sort of cultural change that has been brought about by social media imo. Everything is either amazing or shit. The pragmatic middle ground no longer seems to exist or viewed as sitting on the fence. It’s ridiculous really. It’s like people are so desperate for a little bit of kudos and getting something right these days, that they have to be bullish about everything. 

This in buckets. 

Its 4 games and we have easily been the best side in all 4, with the youngest side in the division.

I’ll save my over-the-top, knee jerk reactions for when we are actually worse than the opposition. Imagine that!

[Bison]

39 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

From my perspective the only thing I cannot understand regarding Chilwell at left back or left wing is , why , when it was working so well in pre season , has he changed it  ?

There's no benefit to it that I can see , Chilwell isn't over lapping his winger as he IS the winger and Colwill isn't crossing the half way line to play the "Chilwell" role.

Why change a winning formula for one that makes us weaker and easier to pay against , especially when we have three legitimate wingers on the bench?

It's bizarre and doesn't instill much confidence in his decision making.