Fulham 0 Chelsea 2

[kev61]

7 hours ago, Dwmh said:

 

 

It certainly wasn't a better xg score.

 

If a manager even considers xg he should be sacked on the spot.If he needs this 'aid' he is clueless.

[Ham]

38 minutes ago, kev61 said:

Nice bit of realism there Martin.One swallow doesn't make a summer and all that.

In truth I haven't watched the last few games.I will wait until there is a consensus among the posters that I trust who say we are improving.

Commending Martin for his realism on our current form whilst admitting that you haven't even watched the last few games 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[kev61]

8 minutes ago, Ham said:

Commending Martin for his realism on our current form whilst admitting that you haven't even watched the last few games 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Watching the team recently is something I couldn't be bothered to do,does that make me a bad supporter?.

I follow posters that are passionate about the team that don't use xg or stat's that are meaningless.

I will start to tune in again when the posters I respect say we are improving.

[kev61]

41 minutes ago, kev61 said:

Watching the team recently is something I couldn't be bothered to do,does that make me a bad supporter?.

I follow posters that are passionate about the team that don't use xg or stat's that are meaningless.

I will start to tune in again when the posters I respect say we are improving.

 

[ROTG]

8 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

He offered miles more defensive support than Maatsen did yesterday, certainly didn't shirk his responsibility 

One would hope so at £80m. 

On the positive side seems Saka has picked up an injury. 

Edited October 4, 2023 by ROTG

[xceleryx]

10 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

I've been a very harsh critic. But then he has been abysmally poor, so I don't feel especially bad about it. And I really mean abysmal, like he hasn't seemed at all a professional footballer, not just that he hasn't "pulled up trees". But I've found it fascinating, because plenty of clubs wanted him, and plenty of clubs who buy a lot smarter than we do, and I couldn't work our just how he could look so crap. Well beyond the usual youngster-abroad, pressure-of-a-huge-fee stuff.

Maybe he really has just been in his head and we'll see something very different from now on. I hope so. 

I feel there was this unrealistic set of expectations placed upon him when he arrived because of what he cost. With the sort of money paid many expected a player that would immediately hit the ground running and impact matches. I said it at the time, but his transfer was more about this season and ahead. Nothing about his transfer to me suggested he was going to turn the tide upon arrival. He joined mid-way through a season after not kicking a ball for two months, that's no foundation to just arrive and turn it on. Much less in a side that was in complete disarray. 

He looks far fitter, no shock there, and a lot more comfortable so far. Now he just needs continued starts to garner that confidence, rhythm, and iron out the roughness in his game. Not since Hazard has a player we've had actually instilled a bit of that hair raising excitement when on the ball - at least for me. There's still plenty for him to work on, but you can already see he puts a bit of fear into the opposition. 

[xceleryx]

8 hours ago, martin1905 said:

Oh and forgot to say, Broja looks a much, much better player than I thought he was. 

Would love to seem him and Jackson together they would be a serious handful for anyone. Both very different to most forwards out there in today's game 

Obviously he's just coming back after so long out so some leeway is to be given, but there were a few moments in this game that reaffirmed the issues I've had with him since his time at Southampton - selfishness, decision making, and playing with his head down. If he's to excel here he needs to do a lot better in these areas. 

He has the ideal profile and physical traits of a modern centre forward, it's just about getting the games into him and seeing if he can see a substantial uptick in development. 

[xceleryx]

1 hour ago, Ham said:

Commending Martin for his realism on our current form whilst admitting that you haven't even watched the last few games 🤷🏻‍♂️

I know right, a little bit of a fair-weathered mentality to only support when things are going well. 

[ROTG]

9 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

It's simple - we pulled Fulham's pants down last night.

Wow, pulling Fulham's pants down is a big news - Can't wait for your of emotional outburst if the team beats one of the big boys

[kev61]

4 minutes ago, kev61 said:

Ha! All hail celery.Someone that will bore you to death with the complicated common sense of the game.

 

[kev61]

6 minutes ago, kev61 said:

 

 

[xceleryx]

Maybe learn how to use the quote feature properly before flapping your gums @kev61. 😉😄

[Dwmh]

7 hours ago, kev61 said:

If a manager even considers xg he should be sacked on the spot.If he needs this 'aid' he is clueless.

idiot and luddite.
If a manager (or a fan) counts shots or shots on target or possession but doesn't take xg far more seriously he is just being ignorant.

[martin1905]

14 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

idiot and luddite.
If a manager (or a fan) counts shots or shots on target or possession but doesn't take xg far more seriously he is just being ignorant.

What if they don't take any of them seriously? The problem with all those stats are they don't show the bigger picture, far too many people in today's game look at stats to show how well a team is playing, without looking at the obvious, like how well we actually played.

As soon as someone mentions any of those stats I switch off. They may well have a place for managers, coaches, analysts, scouts, pundits etc but that's it. The only time I ever hear fans talking about them is when the team is shit but they are trying to justify being right, the stats tell them so, and anyone that disagrees is wrong.

It's funny how when a team is playing well and winning games XG is never mentioned. If we had won every game this season 1-0 I doubt anyone would care about possession or XG.

The only time XG is relevant is when your not winning games of football.

[Thiago97]

1 minute ago, martin1905 said:

What if they don't take any of them seriously? The problem with all those stats are they don't show the bigger picture, far too many people in today's game look at stats to show how well a team is playing, without looking at the obvious, like how well we actually played.

As soon as someone mentions any of those stats I switch off. They may well have a place for managers, coaches, analysts, scouts, pundits etc but that's it. The only time I ever hear fans talking about them is when the team is shit but they are trying to justify being right, the stats tell them so, and anyone that disagrees is wrong.

It's funny how when a team is playing well and winning games XG is never mentioned. If we had won every game this season 1-0 I doubt anyone would care about possession or XG.

The only time XG is relevant is when your not winning games of football.

They are a snapshot, an additional aid to compliment what the naked eye is seeing. They are not an all singing/dancing silver bullet, and no one has suggested they are.

[Sciatika]

The only stat that really matters is the number of points on the table. But we seek more. We want to understand why we are in this position and what we can do about it.  In an area that is all about opinions, it is unsurprising that people seek external indicators as evidence for their ideas. I think that's a good thing. I spend far too much I my life dealing with people whose only basis for their opinions is, at best, anecdotal - their "lived experience" - and, at worst, imaginary. In the end, though, the stats are an adjunct to watching and understanding each game.

[martin1905]

1 minute ago, Thiago97 said:

They are a snapshot, an additional aid to compliment what the naked eye is seeing.

A bit like Covid then, the stats and data told you one thing, if you opened your eyes and looked at what was actually going on out there, it was something else.

1 minute ago, Thiago97 said:

They are not an all singing/dancing silver bullet, and no one has suggested they are.

And I've never suggested anyone has suggested that.

You like stats, I don't. You need them to compliment what the naked eye is telling you, I don't. Your right, I'm wrong. I get it.

[paulw66]

15 hours ago, Dwmh said:

like Forest

Quite, and I would argue that defeat, conceding to the one half chance they had was unlucky, rather than Monday's game, where we won, and deserved to do so.

I mentioned it somewhere else, we could have won all of our games this season.  We've had the chances to. It was a matter of time before someone took one (or two)

[Ham]

7 hours ago, kev61 said:

Watching the team recently is something I couldn't be bothered to do,does that make me a bad supporter?.

I follow posters that are passionate about the team that don't use xg or stat's that are meaningless.

I will start to tune in again when the posters I respect say we are improving.

How do you know which posters to believe and respect if you haven't watched the games Kev?

They might be wrong or misleading.

6 hours ago, ROTG said:

One would hope so at £80m. 

On the positive side seems Saka has picked up an injury. 

£66m. Each time an opposing fan or lazy journalist talks about our spending, they use the maximum fee with add-ons to get us to the magic £1bn mark. 

It's nowhere near that. 

You'd think our own fans would at least try. 

[Max Fowler]

17 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

I've been a very harsh critic. But then he has been abysmally poor, so I don't feel especially bad about it. And I really mean abysmal, like he hasn't seemed at all a professional footballer, not just that he hasn't "pulled up trees". But I've found it fascinating, because plenty of clubs wanted him, and plenty of clubs who buy a lot smarter than we do, and I couldn't work our just how he could look so crap. Well beyond the usual youngster-abroad, pressure-of-a-huge-fee stuff.

Maybe he really has just been in his head and we'll see something very different from now on. I hope so. 

Abysmally poor is right. Honestly I think some people forget how bad Mudryk has been. Not just on the ball but off the ball - by far the worst player on the pitch in both departments for the majority of his games so far.

I still worry about his mentality and dribbling technique but I do think he strikes a ball well.

[Thiago97]

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

A bit like Covid then, the stats and data told you one thing, if you opened your eyes and looked at what was actually going on out there, it was something else.

 

And I've never suggested anyone has suggested that.

You like stats, I don't. You need them to compliment what the naked eye is telling you, I don't. Your right, I'm wrong. I get it.

I’m not actually much of a stats man. I understand what they bring to the discussion and can interpret the bits I deem relevant.

However, I rarely use them or read them in much detail . I’ve never quoted an xG figure in my life, because I don’t really use them. It don’t mean I don’t understand their value though. 

Edited October 4, 2023 by Thiago97

[NoblyBobly]

On 03/10/2023 at 01:02, Ham said:

Looking forward to the media outrage tomorrow. 

What will happen , is at some point someone will quietly say that var made an error and the player should have been sent off. They will need to articulate this because the next time a Fulham player does that it could be against the dippers, or Citeh, or Arsewipes. I will use as my example the Cucu hair pull non penalty against Spurs. The var man had to come out ( much later) and say he made a terrible mistake,  because otherwise pulling players hair in the box would become the norm. But the question is , why did he make this terrible mistake that was that obvious. Is it evidence of bias against us? Remember Battenberg writing in his book that he deliberately didn’t send Spurs players off against Chelsea when he should have done? Not only did that hair pull deny us a penalty but spurs scored shortly after. 
I was surfing YouTube the other day and I jumped in on a video of a talk sport debate on whether Liverpool should get to replay a game  because of a bad decision. This would only EVER be a conversation if the name Liverpool was involved. 

Edited October 4, 2023 by NoblyBobly

[Max Fowler]

1 hour ago, Sciatika said:

The only stat that really matters is the number of points on the table. But we seek more. We want to understand why we are in this position and what we can do about it.  In an area that is all about opinions, it is unsurprising that people seek external indicators as evidence for their ideas. I think that's a good thing. I spend far too much I my life dealing with people whose only basis for their opinions is, at best, anecdotal - their "lived experience" - and, at worst, imaginary. In the end, though, the stats are an adjunct to watching and understanding each game.

xG is important but it's really annoying when it's used to paper over footballing common sense. Mirrors how VAR is being used to overcomplicate the basics of the game.

xG should have given the owners and Poch hope that we were at leat creating chances and not conceding many, but it told us nothing about our ability to get the job done.

When a smaller club like Forest comes to a big boy and sucker punches them, scores their one chance and defends for their life, it's been common parlance for a while that "they deserved the win".

Stats may tell you that we had more chances but they constantly did under Potter too. Point was Potter had no ability to create a winning culture in the club and therefore he had to go.

Do we look back on Potter's reign and his tremendous xG underperformance and say "see - over time it would have evened out!" No - we look at a manager and players who couldn't get the job done.

So I am okay with us looking at xG and if we go on a good run now, then we can say well the stats in the early games indicated that might happen, but the results were still really bad all things considered.

 

 

[ROTG]

53 minutes ago, Ham said:

.

£66m. Each time an opposing fan or lazy journalist talks about our spending, they use the maximum fee with add-ons to get us to the magic £1bn mark. 

It's nowhere near that. 

You'd think our own fans would at least try. 

Is it not the case of quoting the maximum £80m or overall £1b  because the club is building a 100 points team and therefore all the bonuses will be reached or have I missed something?

Edited October 4, 2023 by ROTG

[NoblyBobly]

What was most satisfying about yesterday was that that players who have come in for a lot of stick ( particularly Cucu and Mumu) came good. 
Gallagher as well has been almost derided by some last season. And I suppose he has had a few poor games but never has he lacked effort. But that Captains Armband seems to have given him superpowers . 
For all the talk of a billion pounds spent , we have more players injured than we do fit. We’ve also sold A LOT.  But I think we have a few rough diamonds in this team …still no out and out goalscorer, but nevertheless, all is not lost.