Burnley 1 Chelsea 4

[Dwmh]

Sterling has had a lot of good games for us.  But he'll never be as good as he was for City until the other 10 are that good or close to it.
One of his biggest strengths is getting in there to be 2nd striker but we just aren't creating that many opportunities where he isn't already participating in the build-up.
 

The timing of the first was really important - pretty sure which dressing room I'd want to be at h/t if I was playing (well man=ybe not if I were Broja).
That it was an own goal must have made it harder for Burnley.

Gallagher was 2nd in the motm stakes with plenty others doing well.  We totally dominated in the midfield areas, which probably means the FBs and AMs were working hard too.

 

1 hour ago, thevelourfog said:

Another good result where I'm not sure we any better than the poor ones, but where a break went for rather than against us at a key moment. Not a criticism as such, it's true of about 90% of football matches. I hope it helps us get to a place where we have the confidence/mindset to more aggressively make those things happen sooner in games.

The moves for the last three goals were really nice. Palmer looks very promising given he was a late, opportunistic buy.

Exactly - on XG we beat them by 1.02 goals and most of that was the penalty decision.
Still I suspect that some of the smiles and better attitude are a little bit cause and not all effect (or affect for that matter).

2 wins has doubled out points tally, but if we get 7 points out of the next 7 (all top 9 clubs last season) we will have done well i reckon and still only have 18 points off 13 games.

 

33 minutes ago, Ham said:

Is it just me or does Caicedo have a bit of the Makaleles about him?

Such a cool customer.

I thin he has a lot of the Caicedo about him.

Was expecting a stockier version of Kante, but he seems much more all round than that. More than decent enough to occupy that Jorginho/Enzo role as scrum half/QB (as you say, cool).  Big ball winner.  And happy to drop between the CBs and play as the 3rd CB which is required when you play a back 4.  Quite often he is our last defender (whereas Maka was invariably our first).

[JaneB]

I really couldn't care less as long as he continues to turn it on on the field but Raheem isn't the most dynamic of interviewees is he?

 

[Chelsea_Matt]

12 minutes ago, JaneB said:

I really couldn't care less as long as he continues to turn it on on the field but Raheem isn't the most dynamic of interviewees is he?

 

Could be guarded given how the media have treated him. 

[JaneB]

24 minutes ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

Could be guarded given how the media have treated him. 

True and these interviews are all the same anyway.  Same questions and same answers.

[martin1905]

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

Not sure what you are eluding to?  
I assume after beating two team who dreaming of 40pts we are back on course  for a top 4 finish?

You really do go off on some very bizarre ways sometimes.

To try and clarify although I really don't know why I bother sometimes. You claimed the penalty was borderline. It absolutely wasn't. 100% nailed on penalty. Even for us. Doesn't matter how close to the edge of the area it was it's unquestionably a penalty.

You also claimed that we only scored two goals because Burnley were chasing the game. They absolutely weren't, not by any stretch of the imagination.

I then tried to explain that just because a team is loosing does not mean they are chasing the game. That's a fairly self explanatory but you just refuse to listen. 

I assume you are back to listening on the old wireless as it sounds like you didn't watch the game.

As for a top 4 finish I have  never said this squad would finish top 4 and have not even mentioned it after the last couple of results.

You're nothing if not entertaining.

[east lower]

Just got in, 4hrs 30mins up there and 4hrs back - well worth it in the end. Poor generally in the first half. Goal perked us up and I think that maybe they had a flea put in their ears at the break. We were out at least 3 minutes before Burnley came out for the second half.

Stirling was great all game, something to prove????? Honourable mentions to Palmer, Silva, Disasi, Colwell and in his own way Cucurella again. Team went out of their way to congratulate Caicedo for winning the ball for one of the goals.

View from the stands here:

 

[martin1905]

1 hour ago, Dwmh said:

2 wins has doubled out points tally, but if we get 7 points out of the next 7 (all top 9 clubs last season) we will have done well i reckon and still only have 18 points off 13 games.

Was always going to be a big problem. 8 games which were all winnable to start the season. We were never going to win them all but should have been looking at 18 points, minimum. To have any chance of getting much from the next 7 games we had to find a settled 11 and the player's needed to get used to how Pochettino wants us to play. We are finally getting there on the first point but still someway off how what Poch wants, I suspect, or at least I hope. 

I have been banging this drum pretty much all season, how important a good start was because of what's coming up. Without 18+ points heading into the Arsenal game coming through this run with anything remotely acceptable, to the people that matter, was always going to be difficult.

I do though have a lot more hope going into the next 7 games than I did a few weeks ago and that's not because we beat Fulham and Burnley but more that we seem to have found a good level of team spirit. They seem happy and are showing a lot more fight than we have seen in a long time. That will go a long way.

And for what it's worth we would have played 15 by the time we finish at United, not 13 so it would be 18 points from 15 games, if you're overly optimistic 7 from 7 proves correct. Under normal circumstances it would be very hard for any manager, that isn't at a club expecting a relaxation fight, to survive.

1 hour ago, Dwmh said:

I thin he has a lot of the Caicedo about him.

Was expecting a stockier version of Kante, but he seems much more all round than that. More than decent enough to occupy that Jorginho/Enzo role as scrum half/QB (as you say, cool).  Big ball winner.  And happy to drop between the CBs and play as the 3rd CB which is required when you play a back 4.  Quite often he is our last defender (whereas Maka was invariably our first).

He's as much a freak as Kante was, albeit a completely different type of player. So unique, in terms of how he can do absolutely everything to a very high standard. A much better footballer than any DM has a right to be. 21 years old, scary to think how good he will become.

[Dwmh]

2 hours ago, martin1905 said:

And for what it's worth we would have played 15 by the time we finish at United, not 13 so it would be 18 points from 15 games

Damn I get the arithmetic wrong again.  ouch.

 

2 hours ago, martin1905 said:

He's as much a freak as Kante was, albeit a completely different type of player. So unique, in terms of how he can do absolutely everything to a very high standard. A much better footballer than any DM has a right to be. 21 years old, scary to think how good he will become.

So Declan Rice 3 years younger.
You can see why Enzo is taking up positions further forward.

I don't think he is the physical freak that Kante was, but much more all round.
Hardly ever injured and never for more than a week to date.

[martin1905]

1 hour ago, Dwmh said:

Damn I get the arithmetic wrong again.  ouch.

Ouch indeed, when you look at where we could be after 15 games.

1 hour ago, Dwmh said:

 

So Declan Rice 3 years younger.

Said so before the transfers of Rice and Caicedo, I think he is the better all round player and will reach a different level to Rice but it's just my opinion.

1 hour ago, Dwmh said:

You can see why Enzo is taking up positions further forward.

Too far forward for me. He's not very good around the opposition's penalty box, at all. 

He's also so good deeper it makes playing him further forward doubling perplexing. Not just wasted playing further forward, he's  absolutely rubbish and a huge loss from being deeper.

He and Caicedo are very well rounded but different, they complement each other so well and are literally the perfect pairing. I genuinely believe they will be  the best cm pair around and THE reason we should play a double 6. By that I don't mean both should play as DM's more as box to box but when one goes the other stays, both are more than capable of sitting, ball winning, playing box to box. Maybe we should call it a double 8?

The team should be built around them, both will be elite players, if they aren't already. Having those two players in our team, not using them properly and languishing in the bottom half of the table is why I've been so angry this season. It's not acceptable.

Gallagher has been brilliant, for Gallagher and doesn't deserve to be dropped but realistically it's going to happen.

 

1 hour ago, Dwmh said:

I don't think he is the physical freak that Kante was, but much more all round.

Hardly ever injured and never for more than a week to date.

No one will ever be like Kante, physically. One thing I've noticed since watching at home is that Caicedo is a lot quicker in real life. He looks quite slow on the television, he almost looks lazy, ambling around but that's just not the case.

[CarefreeMuratcan]

10 hours ago, east lower said:

Just got in, 4hrs 30mins up there and 4hrs back - well worth it in the end. Poor generally in the first half. Goal perked us up and I think that maybe they had a flea put in their ears at the break. We were out at least 3 minutes before Burnley came out for the second half.

Stirling was great all game, something to prove????? Honourable mentions to Palmer, Silva, Disasi, Colwell and in his own way Cucurella again. Team went out of their way to congratulate Caicedo for winning the ball for one of the goals.

View from the stands here:

 

I'm yet to go to any games this season (recently bought our first house and our first baby is on the way), but your post is making it hard to stay disciplined. One before the baby is born can't hurt (time to negotiate with the Mrs). 

Edited October 8, 2023 by CarefreeMuratcan

[Willian Dollar Baby]

Sterling clear MOTM. Involved in all four goals and gave their full back and the midfielders doubling up on him a torrid time. If we are going to do anything this season he will be the reason. Not every move will come off as he's playing direct and driving at defenders with pace but you won't get many goals and assists without risk. As DWMH alluded to, he's picking up a lot of creative slack that he would have been on the end of for City. 

Palmer great again. Always seems like he's got so time on the ball and is a fantastic final third passer. Thanks Pep and thanks City. Excited to see how he links up with the proper right backs when they are back playing. 

Replacing Kante was always going to be extremely hard as it often felt we had an extra player on the field. Now Caicedo may not quite be as ridiculous as having the Kante twins in midfield but he's bloody good and actually offers a lot more on the ball. Combine that with the relentless engine and ball winning of Gallagher alongside and it goes a long way to filling the gap. Enzo had an off day but this is likely to happen with players under 24. Easy to forget how young they all are. 

The biggest issues for me today came from those not so young. Unfortunately I think Thiago has really fallen off over the last 12 months and age is finally catching up. When he steps out now he has absolutely no chance to get back. He will always be an icon here and has exceeded all expectations when signed however I'm really looking forward to Badiashelle getting fit. 

The other glaring weakness was at right back. I know Cucurella was out of position but it was a carbon copy of his efforts last year. For a 5ft 7 full back he's painfully slow and not exactly able to bump players off the ball like Reece James or Caicedo. He also offers nothing going forward, thankfully James and Gusto should be back now. 

Feels like a little bit of momentum but I think we all know the difficulty of the run coming. It's going to be tough and I think we may do better than expected, however will be difficult to be anywhere close to top 4 by the end. My naive optimism stems from many of our opponents in this run juggling Europe and that it may suit us to play on the counter a bit more. Players like Jackson could really thrive with a bit of space to run into. 

Edited October 8, 2023 by Willian Dollar Baby

[ROTG]

12 hours ago, martin1905 said:

You also claimed that we only scored two goals because Burnley were chasing the game. They absolutely weren't, not by any stretch of the imagination.

No I said we scored two goals from open play because Burnley were chasing the game to try and equalise at 1-2

12 hours ago, martin1905 said:

I then tried to explain that just because a team is loosing does not mean they are chasing the game. That's a fairly self explanatory but you just refuse to listen. 

No logic in your sentence, so what do teams do when they are losing at home give and take on the chin for the remaining 20 minutes in Burnley’s case?

 

Time for me to take a back set, the real test starts on 21-Oct. 
 

having played a majority of the aim for 40pts safety brigade we have 11 points. Onward and upwards I say. 
 

BTW I did watch the game, without rose tinted glasses. 
 

Apologies to @RDCWfor biting again

[martin1905]

24 minutes ago, ROTG said:

No I said we scored two goals from open play because Burnley were chasing the game to try and equalise at 1-2

We only scored goals in open play when Burnley were chasing the game.

Your exact words.

24 minutes ago, ROTG said:

No logic in your sentence, so what do teams do when they are losing at home give and take on the chin for the remaining 20 minutes in Burnley’s case?

Not sure why you are struggling so much with this, I mean that is literally what Burnley did. Some teams will throw caution to the wind and really chase a game, others don't, it's not often the smaller teams start chasing games against much inferior opposition, most of the time it is damage limitation.

Claiming they were chasing the game just because they were loosing, and it's the only reason we scored from open play is silly.

24 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Time for me to take a back set, the real test starts on 21-Oct. 

Well you can spend the entire season doing this if you want, keep putting dates in and then moving them. You started with August 13th and are now into the end of October. It was clear from the moment our fixtures were done that the games coming up, starting with Arsenal were going to be extremely difficult. You're really not going to gain much waiting until then to see where we are.

As I've said time and again if that's the way you want to do it then I suggest you give it until 2026 to really see where this squad is. Moving the goal posts every couple of weeks seems a little pointless.

 

24 minutes ago, ROTG said:

having played a majority of the aim for 40pts safety brigade we have 11 points. Onward and upwards I say. 

It's going to look a lot worse after the United game, something I have been saying for weeks

24 minutes ago, ROTG said:

BTW I did watch the game, without rose tinted glasses. 

Ah, good. It sounds like you didn't, judging by your comments, I'm glad your in a position to watch games again, hopefully the old wireless will stay in the cupboard.

I've been one of the harshest critics on here this season, my rose tinted glasses went along with my season ticket and you certainly  don't need them to see how we played much better yesterday or maybe we were just more clinical, either way it was a dominant performance and the scoreline reflected that.

 

24 minutes ago, ROTG said:

 

Apologies to @RDCWfor biting again.

 

[martin1905]

1 hour ago, Willian Dollar Baby said:

Sterling clear MOTM. Involved in all four goals and gave their full back and the midfielders doubling up on him a torrid time. If we are going to do anything this season he will be the reason. Not every move will come off as he's playing direct and driving at defenders with pace but you won't get many goals and assists without risk. As DWMH alluded to, he's picking up a lot of creative slack that he would have been on the end of for City. 

It seems like a clear strategy to have a more direct player on the right hand side, with a more defensive full back. Be it Mudryk or Sterling they seem to be instructed to get the ball and run with it, it's very high risk but enjoyable to watch 

1 hour ago, Willian Dollar Baby said:

Palmer great again. Always seems like he's got so time on the ball and is a fantastic final third passer. Thanks Pep and thanks City. Excited to see how he links up with the proper right backs when they are back playing. 

There was quite a few on here and elsewhere that weren't keen on his signing but it's no surprise he's won most over already, he's class.

Going back to my point about the left hand side it's clear that the idea is to have a much more attacking, overlapping full back on the right. Palmer likes to cut inside a lot and drift into central areas without the ball, this will allow James or Gusto to constantly play on the overlap. It's not quite working out at the moment due to the James and Gusto being unavailable but like you I really look forward to Palmer playing Infront of a proper right back when they are available again.

I've given Pochettino a lot of stick, one of the main reasons was playing Colwill left back but it is slowly beginning to make sense, slowly for me anyway, others called it ages ago .

1 hour ago, Willian Dollar Baby said:

Replacing Kante was always going to be extremely hard as it often felt we had an extra player on the field. Now Caicedo may not quite be as ridiculous as having the Kante twins in midfield but he's bloody good and actually offers a lot more on the ball. Combine that with the relentless engine and ball winning of Gallagher alongside and it goes a long way to filling the gap. Enzo had an off day but this is likely to happen with players under 24. Easy to forget how young they all are. 

Caicedo is just a joy and only 21. As good as Gallagher has been someone is going to have to drop out when Nkunku is back. The way we use our two wide players it's pretty obvious it shouldn't be either of them. Nkunku is very good from the left but nowhere near as direct as Sterling or Mudryk. He won't play like Palmer from the right and although he can play anywhere across the frontline he's undoubtedly best as a 10, especially in this set up.

Take into consideration just how poor Enzo has been playing further forward and just how good he is in the pivot and I can't see anything other than Gallagher being the one left out. That's not to say he won't get plenty of game time, as he will but not sure he will play every game like he is now.

It could be that Gallagher's game is so important to the system that he is actually one of the first names on the team sheet, regardless . As good as Enzo and Caicedo may well be together it may be more important to the system to have Gallagher in there for his pressing. I can see it being a situation where Poch gets a lot of stick for playing Gallagher at the expense of a more attacking player, with maybe Nkunku on the left and Sterling on the right with all three in midfield, which goes against what we are seeing with one side having a more direct winger and the other having an overlapping full back behind a wide player that drifts inside but I suppose it's horses for courses and gives us plenty of options, depending on opposition.

1 hour ago, Willian Dollar Baby said:

The biggest issues for me today came from those not so young. Unfortunately I think Thiago has really fallen off over the last 12 months and age is finally catching up. When he steps out now he has absolutely no chance to get back. He will always be an icon here and has exceeded all expectations when signed however I'm really looking forward to Badiashelle getting fit. 

Thiago can't go on forever, it's only a matter of time. He's having to play every game at the moment but that will soon change. Badiashille will get plenty of games. Disasi is quickly becoming undroppable.

1 hour ago, Willian Dollar Baby said:

The other glaring weakness was at right back. I know Cucurella was out of position but it was a carbon copy of his efforts last year. For a 5ft 7 full back he's painfully slow and not exactly able to bump players off the ball like Reece James or Caicedo. He also offers nothing going forward, thankfully James and Gusto should be back now. 

Feels like a little bit of momentum but I think we all know the difficulty of the run coming. It's going to be tough and I think we may do better than expected, however will be difficult to be anywhere close to top 4 by the end. My naive optimism stems from many of our opponents in this run juggling Europe and that it may suit us to play on the counter a bit more. Players like Jackson could really thrive with a bit of space to run into. 

Yeah, I'm far more comfortable going into this run of games than I was only a couple of weeks ago and as I've already said it has nothing to do with victories against Fulham and Burnley. We seem to be, quickly, building a very good team spirit and that will go a long way.

I think I'm being far more open about Pochettino now too, which I'm sure will please @Thiago97, at least I hope he can forgive me for my ramblings of the last couple of weeks. A tough time at home and my dislIke for him no doubt clouded my judgement but I should never have let it out on here .

I think my summary of how we are using our wide players with different types of full back should make him see that I have opened up to Poch. That there is progress and we are seeing signs of a very well drilled system. I can only apologise for my over the top negativity and constant arguing for the sake of it.

 

 

[Thiago97]

30 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

 

I think I'm being far more open about Pochettino now too, which I'm sure will please @Thiago97, at least I hope he can forgive me for my ramblings of the last couple of weeks. A tough time at home and my dislIke for him no doubt clouded my judgement but I should never have let it out on here .

I think my summary of how we are using our wide players with different types of full back should make him see that I have opened up to Poch. That there is progress and we are seeing signs of a very well drilled system. I can only apologise for my over the top negativity and constant arguing for the sake of it.

 

 

No worries mate.Just for the record from my side, I was certainly not trying to be argumentative, I was just standing up for my view of the situation, which happened to be the polar opposite of what you were posting at the time.

I certainly don't view the last 3 wins as me being proven right. That would completely contradict the points I was strongly debating against at the time, the whole it's 6 games in. Where now is 9 games in and it is just as knee jerk to judge things now.

We are seeing progress from the players and from the manager (though I think not starting Jackson yesterday was a mistake). Seeing some goals scored and some wins helps lift the gloom. Results will always be important and we have to have that pressure of needing good results, but for where we are right now, performances and progress are of more importance than results currently. Hopefully, off the back of some positive results, we can judge the current situation in isolation to the last 4 months, and not as a whole of the last 18 months. Those two situations have to be separated.

Let's hope for continued progression , and more importantly......more fantastic goals to celebrate!

[xceleryx]

Still baffles me the slander Enzo gets from the same select few. 

He'll fall into the category of players that people either get or they don't, there's no real middle ground to be had much like with Jorginho, Kroos, Xabi Alonso and others over the years.

105 touches, 93% pass competition, 12/14 long balls completed, 6/9 ground duels won, 2 interceptions and 3 tackles. A really solid day at the office without being spectacular. 

His efforts around goal have let him down a little and it's certainly a weaker part of his game that needs work, but at the same time he's CONSTANTLY available for his teammates, always receives the ball with a desire to move it forward, plays with his head up, and just does so many little things that helps relieve pressure for those around him and the team as a whole. 

That aside, a good win despite not necessarily a strong performance as a whole. Thiago Silva is looking his age unfortunately, Sterling was excellent, Palmer continues to grow, Jackson took his goal well, Gallagher was solid once again, and Caicedo excellent. 

There's still plenty of work to do but it was good to see a bit of character shown for once after going down, despite not being at our best. We've got some tough games ahead now and I expect a few indifferent performances and results in that time, but hopefully we'll remain patience throughout and manage to dig in for a few results.

[boratsbrother]

10 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Still baffles me the slander Enzo gets from the same select few. 

He'll fall into the category of players that people either get or they don't, there's no real middle ground to be had much like with Jorginho, Kroos, Xabi Alonso and others over the years.

 

 

There's an increasing number of posters starting to question Enzo's contribution and importance to the team. Strangely  though, some posters are admitting Gallagher is playing better than Enzo, but somehow  think Gallagher should be the one to be on the bench when Nkunku returns.

I can see Enzo becoming another Oscar, Kova or Jorginho. A player we keep for years too long in the hope that they will start delivering before finally admitting that they never will and move them on. 

I very sincerely hope I'm wrong!

 

[ROTG]

2 hours ago, martin1905 said:

Well you can spend the entire season doing this if you want, keep putting dates in and then moving them. You started with August 13th and are now into the end of October. It was clear from the moment our fixtures were done that the games coming up, starting with Arsenal were going to be extremely difficult. You're really not going to gain much waiting until then to see where we are.

As I've said time and again if that's the way you want to do it then I suggest you give it until 2026 to really see where this squad is. Moving the goal posts every couple of weeks seems a little pointless.

I move the goal posts to half way through the season after the first couple of game into the season, hoping to be proven wrong that the team is bang average.  Giving those on this forum who went into a frenzy of how good the team was after the friendlies in the USA  or blaming injuries a chance to ram all my words down my throat. 

I could move the goal post to 2030, with this squad and it would not make any difference.
 

Also 2026 is beyond Poch’s contract, so what are you suggesting?

You can have the last word I am done. 👍 

So from now to the last game of the season on every match day you meet to put £3.20 into a bottle so at the end of the season you can give your donation to keep the website going. 😀👍
 

[Dwmh]

6 hours ago, martin1905 said:

Not sure why you are struggling so much with this, I mean that is literally what Burnley did. Some teams will throw caution to the wind and really chase a game, others don't, it's not often the smaller teams start chasing games against much inferior opposition, most of the time it is damage limitation.

Claiming they were chasing the game just because they were loosing, and it's the only reason we scored from open play is silly.

 

5 hours ago, martin1905 said:

There was quite a few on here and elsewhere that weren't keen on his signing but it's no surprise he's won most over already, he's class.

Palmer.  I thought the play for his assist in the box the other day was wonderful.  I'm more than open for him to prove to me he is a star.
But other than a well taken penalty I didn't see what he did yesterday.  I must have missed it.  Actually we didn't create a great deal all game and 60% of that came from Sterling and the rest from Caicedo or Gallagher winning the ball in their half.

 

5 hours ago, martin1905 said:

I've given Pochettino a lot of stick, one of the main reasons was playing Colwill left back but it is slowly beginning to make sense, slowly for me anyway, others called it ages ago .

I guess one simple point is that with current form the only possible choices are Colwill at LB, Disasi at RB, a Back 3 or drop Silva.

I have never got this concern about the paper formation of the defence.  It is Opposition's attackers +1 and has been for the 50 odd years I have been watching.  The opponents decide who you have defending and where, not the team sheet.  Managers only decide on whether a DM or FB will be added to a 2 or 3 man defence when required, or whether a DM gets to play CM or a FB play WB (or Azpi gets to play CM) when the oppor manager permits.

Colvill is a more than adequate at FB or WB, is great when asked to mark a 2nd striker, and either has great judgement as to where he should be or simply listens to the Master.

 

5 hours ago, martin1905 said:

It could be that Gallagher's game is so important to the system that he is actually one of the first names on the team sheet, regardless .

He'll be the new Mickey Droy, I'm telling you.  Dropped when ever we start to play well and want more creative players.  Back as soon as the players screw up and the manager wants to sit and score by nicking the ball in their half (most of last season).

In 10 years time their will be someone joining this site with the  nick Gwmh to let people know he isn't a johnny come lately but He was Here in the couple of seasons when we were sh1t.

 

5 hours ago, martin1905 said:

Thiago can't go on forever, it's only a matter of time. He's having to play every game at the moment but that will soon change. Badiashille will get plenty of games. Disasi is quickly becoming undroppable.

I think it is time to set up a Silva tribute page now.  Celebrate while he is still playing.

5 hours ago, martin1905 said:

I think my summary of how we are using our wide players with different types of full back should make him see that I have opened up to Poch. That there is progress and we are seeing signs of a very well drilled system. I can only apologise for my over the top negativity and constant arguing for the sake of it.

I don't think one has to have the same attitude to a manager as to his coaching - after all you can always credit the assistants!

I always thought tfsw was an effective manager at a difficult time.
In Conte's 2nd season I was one of just 2 or 3 posters on the old site defending him for his efforts with such a injury ragged and over played side.
I think that Poch is doing an ok job, certainly a lot better than the last two managers, and a lot of that was visible even a few weeks ago.
 I don't think Poch is capable of managing an 80+ point team though.  And I don't think Conte is much good at managing anything else.

These seem to me to be objective and reasonably povs.
My feelings about the three as people are much harsher, and I'll make no such claim to objectivity on them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[chara]

Interesting post as ever Droy...do I detect a mellowing in your cfcnet phoenix  days?😁Palmer.... watched the second half relatively calm knowing the score and watching Palmer am always impressed at his understated awareness...makes himself available and suddenly seems to appear far from his last seen spot to receive a ball.....imho he has a football brain and great potential...as opposed to Sterling who has great football skills but little football brain..not an insult ....his skill got him a penalty, a lucky og ,terrible ball in but caused panic and such are margins and random luck,and a really well taken goal.... seems like faint praise but appreciate what influence he had on the game.

Gonna be another long season but at least possible to see some light ahead unlike last season when there seemed no chance of anything changing..for whatever reasons.

Love the way Conor has raised his game...will be interesting to see how everything develops as we go forward,

 

[Dwmh]

49 minutes ago, chara said:

Interesting post as ever Droy...do I detect a mellowing in your cfcnet phoenix  days?

No.  Mind right now that the target is >40 rather than >80 and perhaps >90 the football stakes are pretty low.
A few points dropped or gained here or there are well, neither.

51 minutes ago, chara said:

Love the way Conor has raised his game...will be interesting to see how everything develops as we go forward,

Not sure he has.  Playing in CM3 was always his game and now when he joins the front 3 to press he is one of 4, not one of 3.

Plus when you put the Very Energetic  Gallagher with the Energetic Fernandez and the Super Energetic Caicedo the total effect is magnified.  He is no longer doing his best to make us competitive in the midfield, we are blowing them out of the water.

 

8 hours ago, martin1905 said:

Not sure why you are struggling so much with this, I mean that is literally what Burnley did. Some teams will throw caution to the wind and really chase a game, others don't, it's not often the smaller teams start chasing games against much inferior opposition, most of the time it is damage limitation.

Claiming they were chasing the game just because they were loosing, and it's the only reason we scored from open play is silly.

Just realised I quoted this but did not respond to it.  Meant to say:

I actually think Burnley did try to attack us and take risks in H2.  It is just that they are an inexperienced team with perhaps a naive or stubborn manager.  Or rather a team whose experience tells them that to play the way they did will get them points (based on last season).

The kept playing these 25-35 yard "vertical" balls which seems to be the Burnley way to go forward.  (It also seems to be the Poch way to go forward, sensible for us because we have the front players to get to the ball first and mostly keep possession even if it often comes straight back rather than the player turning and going forward).

A team looking to keep it 2-1 would have either have hoofed it long, or passed it around the back more and chosen the forward passes more carefully (tricky at home when losing, but it is what they would do if leading).

So for me they were playing to the plan to go forward, but as we all know passing it to anywhere near Caicedo (or Disasi or Colwill or even Cucurella on a good day) is not an effective strategy.  They had a better plan H1 when Odobert* (18 with 23 mins PL level experience) was the outlet, but he tired (or Cucurella smartened up).

So thinking this through the positive thought is sure just another XG win by 1 goal against a poor team.
But 1.  XG exceeded by 2 rather than underperformed by 1 as per usual
and 2.  The midfield were superb, so even if that didn't feed through to a dominant attacking performance it deserves praise nonetheless.  

 

*We are  in contact with his agent already I am sure - read all about it tomorrow.
 

[xceleryx]

12 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

There's an increasing number of posters starting to question Enzo's contribution and importance to the team. Strangely  though, some posters are admitting Gallagher is playing better than Enzo, but somehow  think Gallagher should be the one to be on the bench when Nkunku returns.

I can see Enzo becoming another Oscar, Kova or Jorginho. A player we keep for years too long in the hope that they will start delivering before finally admitting that they never will and move them on. 

I very sincerely hope I'm wrong!

Here's the thing. Enzo's "down performances" are still of a pretty high overall level per the standard he's set. Someone like Gallagher, who I've also thoroughly defended in the past, has had a lower standard to live up towards. So when he does out perform that level it's seen as a more impressive feat. That's not taking away from Gallagher, I think he's been very good so far this season and deserves his place, but both players have a different set of expectations upon them. 

Other players over the years have suffered similar because of this - Mikel, Willian, Kovacic, Raul Meireles, etc. 

Again, Enzo is a player you either get and appreciate or you don't. He does a lot of important things that aren't recorded in the stats and that we'd miss if he wasn't in the team. A bit like after we sold Jorginho last January, then completely missed that calm and composed presence in the middle that could absorb pressure, provide an outlet for his teammates, collect the ball from the defence, and so on. 

[kev61]

On 07/10/2023 at 22:44, Dwmh said:

 

Was expecting a stockier version of Kante, but he seems much more all round than that. More than decent enough to occupy that Jorginho/Enzo role as scrum half/QB (as you say, cool).  Big ball winner.  And happy to drop between the CBs and play as the 3rd CB which is required when you play a back 4.  Quite often he is our last defender (whereas Maka was invariably our first).

You never fail to disappoint.Who in the history of CFC was more of an all rounder than Kante?.

As for Enzo and Jorginho - what planet are you on!.They are so far behind  Kante in his prime that I have to think are you really taking the piss.

Good to see you back Droy but seriously,do you still believe in the guff you come out with?

[kev61]

17 hours ago, martin1905 said:

It seems like a clear strategy to have a more direct player on the right hand side, with a more defensive full back. Be it Mudryk or Sterling they seem to be instructed to get the ball and run with it, it's very high risk but enjoyable to watch 

There was quite a few on here and elsewhere that weren't keen on his signing but it's no surprise he's won most over already, he's class.

Going back to my point about the left hand side it's clear that the idea is to have a much more attacking, overlapping full back on the right. Palmer likes to cut inside a lot and drift into central areas without the ball, this will allow James or Gusto to constantly play on the overlap. It's not quite working out at the moment due to the James and Gusto being unavailable but like you I really look forward to Palmer playing Infront of a proper right back when they are available again.

I've given Pochettino a lot of stick, one of the main reasons was playing Colwill left back but it is slowly beginning to make sense, slowly for me anyway, others called it ages ago .

Caicedo is just a joy and only 21. As good as Gallagher has been someone is going to have to drop out when Nkunku is back. The way we use our two wide players it's pretty obvious it shouldn't be either of them. Nkunku is very good from the left but nowhere near as direct as Sterling or Mudryk. He won't play like Palmer from the right and although he can play anywhere across the frontline he's undoubtedly best as a 10, especially in this set up.

Take into consideration just how poor Enzo has been playing further forward and just how good he is in the pivot and I can't see anything other than Gallagher being the one left out. That's not to say he won't get plenty of game time, as he will but not sure he will play every game like he is now.

It could be that Gallagher's game is so important to the system that he is actually one of the first names on the team sheet, regardless . As good as Enzo and Caicedo may well be together it may be more important to the system to have Gallagher in there for his pressing. I can see it being a situation where Poch gets a lot of stick for playing Gallagher at the expense of a more attacking player, with maybe Nkunku on the left and Sterling on the right with all three in midfield, which goes against what we are seeing with one side having a more direct winger and the other having an overlapping full back behind a wide player that drifts inside but I suppose it's horses for courses and gives us plenty of options, depending on opposition.

Thiago can't go on forever, it's only a matter of time. He's having to play every game at the moment but that will soon change. Badiashille will get plenty of games. Disasi is quickly becoming undroppable.

Yeah, I'm far more comfortable going into this run of games than I was only a couple of weeks ago and as I've already said it has nothing to do with victories against Fulham and Burnley. We seem to be, quickly, building a very good team spirit and that will go a long way.

I think I'm being far more open about Pochettino now too, which I'm sure will please @Thiago97, at least I hope he can forgive me for my ramblings of the last couple of weeks. A tough time at home and my dislIke for him no doubt clouded my judgement but I should never have let it out on here .

I think my summary of how we are using our wide players with different types of full back should make him see that I have opened up to Poch. That there is progress and we are seeing signs of a very well drilled system. I can only apologise for my over the top negativity and constant arguing for the sake of it.

 

 

Don't apologise Martin -  a few decent results doesn't make a summer.Let's see where we are around crimbo.

[Michael Tucker]

1 hour ago, kev61 said:

Don't apologise Martin

Unless Ive missed something (very possible), he didn't.

1 hour ago, kev61 said:

a few decent results doesn't make a summer.

Quite. But I don't think that anyone is suggesting otherwise.