Chelsea 0 Brentford 2

[kev61]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

 

This isn't to say every transfer has been justified, that we haven't overpaid in some cases, or whatever else. It's more to acknowledge we've invested heavily into a longer term project that we're still at the beginning of, so we've not necessarily had the chance to get the best out of the money spent. 

You seriously think  this is a long term project that is going to plan?

It is a disaster.It is only a matter of time before the protests begin... 'Bohley out'.

[xceleryx]

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

Once again you have come up with a really poor strawman, when in reality the club was successful during those periods.

You are also proving by your continual references to the Arse that the club only require seasonal tweaks to stay ahead of the Arse, unfortunately we allowed an egotistical man to become commander in chief and as such 12th (2022/2023)  and more of the same this season is the result, without any identity on the field.

Successful as a glorified cup side, which has been exactly what I've said we've been. On the domestic front, which is what the discussion was related towards and you've now tried to steer away from (shock horror), we've been fortunate more than worthy. 

[xceleryx]

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

Name one of the players from the 1b spend has improved the team?

I see you've conveniently missed the part in true ROTG fashion where I said, and quote - 

"we've invested heavily into a longer term project that we're still at the beginning of, so we've not necessarily had the chance to get the best out of the money spent. "

[xceleryx]

46 minutes ago, kev61 said:

You seriously think  this is a long term project that is going to plan?

It is a disaster.It is only a matter of time before the protests begin... 'Bohley out'.

Too early to tell, as I've continuously tried to make the point of from the beginning. 

What I do know though is that we're not as bad as our results indicate. With more proficiency upfront we'd having a very different discussion, that's the fine margins of the Premier League. 

[Holymoly]

9 hours ago, xceleryx said:

GK and CF still remains immediate areas of need

Keeper kind of sorts itself out on its own if we were a team that scored goals, especially given we have Petrovic waiting in the wings. What we really need is a creative midfielder, a player that will run at defenses and then a striker, in that order.

[Holymoly]

2 hours ago, kev61 said:

You seriously think  this is a long term project that is going to plan?

It is a disaster.It is only a matter of time before the protests begin... 'Bohley out'.

The plan was hobbled from the start when the club had let all the real Chelsea experience retire or let go over a number of years, leaving the likes of Jorginho and Kovacic seen as the senior pros, god help us. If we still had the likes of Rudiger or Giroud in the squad along with Thiag Silva we would be in a far better place from which to build. As it is even the captaincy is riddled with chronic injury issues.

I don't think Boehly is the issue per sé as he inherited an unbalanced squad with little or no Chelsea identity. These chickens were going to come home to roost even under Abramovic. The problem is that now even the management team doesn't have the Chelsea ethos. We're basically supporting an entirely differenct club today. HM Government have got their way when they tried to put us out of business, turns out they effectively succeeded. Maybe we should petition to go the whole hog and change our name to London Athletic so that the Chelsea memory isn't sullied further.

[boratsbrother]

5 hours ago, ROTG said:

Name one of the players from the 1b spend has improved the team?

At this point in time I would say there's not a single one who has improved the team, but that's not to say none of them won't go onto be better than the ones they replaced.

Again, at this moment in time, In terms of fees and wages I'd say only Palmer and maybe Badiashile look like they are good value for money. £60m for Cucu. £80m for W Forfana. £120m for Caisedo. £115m for Enzo and  £350K a week for Sterling is a bonkers waste of a huge amount of money!

[Holymoly]

5 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

At this point in time I would say there's not a single one who has improved the team, but that's not to say none of them won't go onto be better than the ones they replaced.

I think you have to remember that the team they joined really wasn't that great after so many experienced players retired or let go by the previous administration. We are a tad guilty of looking back to the recent past through rose tinted glasses

[ROTG]

5 hours ago, xceleryx said:

I see you've conveniently missed the part in true ROTG fashion where I said, and quote - 

"we've invested heavily into a longer term project that we're still at the beginning of, so we've not necessarily had the chance to get the best out of the money spent. "

So you are in agreement  none are an upgrade. 

Edited October 30, 2023 by ROTG

[Max Fowler]

5 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Too early to tell, as I've continuously tried to make the point of from the beginning. 

What I do know though is that we're not as bad as our results indicate. With more proficiency upfront we'd having a very different discussion, that's the fine margins of the Premier League. 

Personally I think Celery you might be better avoiding the "fine margins" argument, even though I largely agree with you now. Premier League football is not just about arbitrary fine margins, it's about finding ways to win at all costs. We have a young team who will look half decent in a lot of games but have little capacity to get the job done and get the win. Against other stable teams desperate to survive, we were bound to struggle without more experience.

I think a better argument of yours is - do the current run of results matter that much in the grand scheme of project? Does it matter if we finish 12th or 10th or 8th t his season if we see signs of progress?

Personally I think many of the optimists on here downplayed just how bad our start was - the worst in what 45 years with the easiest run of fixtures. Since then I have seen us turn things around and I don't think we will lose every game.

But to some of the questions about the above comments -

I love Sterling. I love Caicedo. I love Enzo. Starting to like Cucurella and Mudryk. These kinds of players are showing signs.

The problem is they play in a system devoid of stability and experience. Yes the likes of Sterling frustrates, but he has shown just how good he is in the right setup (Man City) but ours is in serious transition. 

IMO - the problem largely isn't the talent of the individuals we have recruited any more. Okay we may have overpaid on a number of them. It is the fact we have made so many changes and have so little experience in the side.

Are the owners desperate for top four? If so - we need serious additions in January. Are they okay with "signs of progression" this season like you, Celery? If so, then we don't need to tear our hair out right now.

[Max Fowler]

Maybe one small piece of unsolicited advice - feel free to bin it. If you are think Chelsea might lose right now and it is going to ruin your week, maybe try avoiding watching the whole game live and just watch the highlights.

I did it with Brentford and felt much better than I had with previous results.

When you watch a whole game slip away it can just be so frustrating and maybe not worth the pain right now.

[boratsbrother]

1 hour ago, Holymoly said:

I think you have to remember that the team they joined really wasn't that great after so many experienced players retired or let go by the previous administration. We are a tad guilty of looking back to the recent past through rose tinted glasses

I wanted most of the players moved on so I'm not one who's looking through rose tinted glasses.

The only players who I wanted us to keep were Rudi (obviously) along with Christensen and Alonso.

[NoblyBobly]

On 29/10/2023 at 09:56, Mark Kelly said:

The big issue with Poch is two fold , one he's literally scared of every team we play , he picks his side based on what they will do to us and not what we can do to them and two he's trying to reinvent the wheel . 

Once Reece James is fit there's absolutely no chance that the best right back in the division will be played as a right back , to show what a deep thinker he is and a master tactician Poch will play him on the wing and in all probability pick Disasi out of position again because of "the big boys" .

I can understand this to a degree given we cannot score from open play but playing good players out of position isn't helping them or us .

He's too cowardly , he really is .

I don't really want rid I just want him to stop being a wuss about everything.

Also , it would be a start if he could be more vocal about refereeing errors instead of being all nicey nicey all the time , particularly when they're mugging us off every chance they get .

I’m starting to come round this view . If we had hired Mourinho again I would expect this slightly negative, playing within yourself football ( only better organised) , but we hired Poch. I thought he was a Cavalier not a Roundhead . I thought I’d see swashbuckling attacking football and the days of keep ball were over. What the hell has got into this clubs DNA that makes us so scared of every single team. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy. 

[Sciatika]

I made the assumption that those who had allowed their contracts to end and those who did not want to renew wanted to go. Havertz, Mount, Kovacic,  Kante, Azpi, PEA, Ziyech,  Rudiger, Christensen, Alonso, and so on.

[NoblyBobly]

12 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

I made the assumption that those who had allowed their contracts to end and those who did not want to renew wanted to go. Havertz, Mount, Kovacic,  Kante, Azpi, PEA, Ziyech,  Rudiger, Christensen, Alonso, and so on.

I’d say about half of those would have been happy to stay with a mutually acceptable contract and the other half would have dug a tunnel under the Bridge to get out. 

[Mark Kelly]

8 minutes ago, NoblyBobly said:

I’m starting to come round this view . If we had hired Mourinho again I would expect this slightly negative, playing within yourself football ( only better organised) , but we hired Poch. I thought he was a Cavalier not a Roundhead . I thought I’d see swashbuckling attacking football and the days of keep ball were over. What the hell has got into this clubs DNA that makes us so scared of every single team. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy. 

Yep , we're set up to stop not to impose , our players are miles better than Brentford's , they're decimated by injury and suspension and had one tactic which was to frustrate us and keep a solid back ten and make us move them about and hit us when we inevitable drop the ball. 

We have trouble breaking these super organised sides down but half the reason is the lack of support out wide for the wingers as he only "allows" one side to attack.

I'm not saying go "Gung Ho" but help your own players play for goodness sake. 

When faced with a smaller team he plays to their strengths and not ours , because he's got the fear.

[Miguelito07]

2 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Maybe one small piece of unsolicited advice - feel free to bin it. If you are think Chelsea might lose right now and it is going to ruin your week, maybe try avoiding watching the whole game live and just watch the highlights.

so not watch any Chelsea matches this year?! 😉

Edited October 30, 2023 by Miguelito07

[paulw66]

On 28/10/2023 at 13:29, Ham said:

How was that not a penalty for Sterling though?!?

Push in the back with hands. Why would Sterling dive in that position? 

Quickest VAR check ever. 

INCIDENT: Chelsea were not awarded a penalty after Andrey Ruslev fouled Raheem Sterling inside the area.

DERMOT SAYS: "What a risk to take! Why would you do that? Different people have different levels. If we refereed on the same day, we would see things slightly differently and our threshold is different. Another day, another ref and it could have been a penalty."

 

What sort of an explanation is that?

[Mark Kelly]

10 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

INCIDENT: Chelsea were not awarded a penalty after Andrey Ruslev fouled Raheem Sterling inside the area.

DERMOT SAYS: "What a risk to take! Why would you do that? Different people have different levels. If we refereed on the same day, we would see things slightly differently and our threshold is different. Another day, another ref and it could have been a penalty."

 

What sort of an explanation is that?

One that supports his mates in the game and screws us over once again , the lot of them are making up rules to suit whatever tickles their fancy at the time with Dermot covering for them on a Monday.

Even the penalty we did get recently we wouldn't have got if it had been left to the on pitch referee.

It really is a scandal how our games are officiated , and it makes it easy for the "low block , low skill" sides as they can fly as close to wind as they like knowing full well the referee will look the other way "because Chelsea" . 

[chara]

33 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

One that supports his mates in the game and screws us over once again , the lot of them are making up rules to suit whatever tickles their fancy at the time with Dermot covering for them on a Monday.

Even the penalty we did get recently we wouldn't have got if it had been left to the on pitch referee.

It really is a scandal how our games are officiated , and it makes it easy for the "low block , low skill" sides as they can fly as close to wind as they like knowing full well the referee will look the other way "because Chelsea" . 

As ever Mark..just because we are paranoid...doesn't mean we are wrong!

[Dwmh]

48 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

What sort of an explanation is that?

A very delicate one.  How to say the ref was wrong without actually admitting the ref AND VAR got it wrong and Chelsea go shafted.

Dermot Gallagher, 15 years as a top level ref, 16 years as a PR man for refs mistakes.  He has learnt a lot more in the 16 years than he ever did in the first 15 years.

[chara]

Just now, Dwmh said:

A very delicate one.  How to say the ref was wrong without actually admitting the ref AND VAR got it wrong and Chelsea go shafted.

Dermot Gallagher, 15 years as a top level ref, 16 years as a PR man for refs mistakes.  He has learnt a lot more in the 16 years than he ever did in the first 15 years.

THAT Droy ...is you at your finest!...... Brilliant,

[ROTG]

5 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Are the owners desperate for top four? If so - we need serious additions in January.

That’s funny after the owners have spunked in excess of half a billion on players. 

[blueandproud]

On 28/10/2023 at 19:06, johnnybozo said:

Simeone or Bielsa or someone of the ilk of Ange are the only people to be able to get this ragtag bunch into shape. Maybe a Tommy Tuchel or Conte return.

No chance!  Simeone won't leave his cushy number at Atletico and is overrated, his negative football won't work anymore. Tuchel also has a cushy number at Bayern.  As for Conte, we don't need a prima donna manager who'll find any excuse to whinge and be a blameshifter all the time.  As for Ange that ship has sailed  Why go for ex managers nyway?  It's never quite as good second time around the 14/15 team was probably our least impressive  PL winners out of the 5 by a country mile.

[Max Fowler]

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

That’s funny after the owners have spunked in excess of half a billion on players. 

That could be intended to serve us over the next 5-10 years though..