Chelsea 0 Brentford 2

[Sleeping Dave]

Some heavy criticism here and fair enough, I get it. However, I’ve been banging on that we are not a team ready for consistency. The squad is too young and we still, as I’ve repeated for eons, lack goals. 

Results like this will happen all season. We simply cannot have any expectations on this team whatsoever, where we are at the moment is nowhere near a Champions League qualification spot and neither do we deserve to be. Perhaps towards the middle of the season next season we may see some maturity and stability in this team. 

We need time and we need to find ourselves one or two real goal scorers before we are anywhere near. 

[east lower]

2 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Some heavy criticism here and fair enough, I get it. However, I’ve been banging on that we are not a team ready for consistency. The squad is too young and we still, as I’ve repeated for eons, lack goals. 

Results like this will happen all season. We simply cannot have any expectations on this team whatsoever, where we are at the moment is nowhere near a Champions League qualification spot and neither do we deserve to be. Perhaps towards the middle of the season next season we may see some maturity and stability in this team. 

We need time and we need to find ourselves one or two real goal scorers before we are anywhere near. 

That last bit won’t matter as we create so little and move up the pitch so slowly. 
 

We need a brave manager who will play progressively and faster paced football.

[blueboy1905]

That second goal sums up our club, a complete laughing stock.

[bertles86]

Tbh we're in a position where we can't keep sacking managers or coaches, or whatever you call them these days. Just give Poch the full season, and the next one. This seasons goal should be 10th, next season 6th and so on. Otherwise we'll keep getting worse and worse coaches.

[east lower]

2 minutes ago, bertles86 said:

Tbh we're in a position where we can't keep sacking managers or coaches, or whatever you call them these days. Just give Poch the full season, and the next one. This seasons goal should be 10th, next season 6th and so on. Otherwise we'll keep getting worse and worse coaches.

That all depends on whether you’ve made a decent choice in the first place!

[Original 21]

31 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Yeah right on it Poch's fault

It's  the tools he be given is the problem.

Fair point. I think there was a lot of tension behind the scenes during the transfer window because Poch was practically begging for more experience upfront in some of his interviews, while simultaneously parroting the Board’s line that they didn’t think another striker was necessary because “it would impede the progress of Broja”.  

Let’s just say that Broja’s progress is the least of our concerns right now. 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Original 21

[My Blood Is Blue]

3 minutes ago, bertles86 said:

Tbh we're in a position where we can't keep sacking managers or coaches, or whatever you call them these days. Just give Poch the full season, and the next one. This seasons goal should be 10th, next season 6th and so on. Otherwise we'll keep getting worse and worse coaches.

And keep everything crossed we somehow manage to win a domestic cup to give us some kind of European income. I know it’s not going to happen, but worse teams than us have managed to do it.

[Max Fowler]

26 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Some heavy criticism here and fair enough, I get it. However, I’ve been banging on that we are not a team ready for consistency. The squad is too young and we still, as I’ve repeated for eons, lack goals. 

Results like this will happen all season. We simply cannot have any expectations on this team whatsoever, where we are at the moment is nowhere near a Champions League qualification spot and neither do we deserve to be. Perhaps towards the middle of the season next season we may see some maturity and stability in this team. 

We need time and we need to find ourselves one or two real goal scorers before we are anywhere near. 

The issue is all the noises coming out of the club were that they were strongly expecting top four this season. There are ways expectations could have been managed (via Poch and the media at least) but all the talking up of this team has maybe made things worse than they actually are. Poch not ruling out the title preseason doesn't help.

IMO this is half the cause of conflict among fans on here - do we expect to finish in CL places, or eighth, for example? If the latter then our current run might not be too concerning, if the former then we're close to giving up already.

And maybe some fans still expect us to be doing better than CL places, given all the money we've spent. I am not the first person to say that the owners could have done a better job at setting expectations given how public they have generally been.

But maybe they genuinely still think we could at least get back in the CL with this squad.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Max Fowler

[Siidi]

Yes, we could do with better players ( which team couldn't?),  but the system has to be right.

Too many touches on the ball by everyone not just second team players, too much dithering about a simple pass, too many sidewards and possession passes. And all the while our opponents are organising their defensive shapes, ready to counterattack.

The other day, I watched old clips of PSG under Pochettino, and what I found about his approach left me with little confidence going forward. At the time, I blamed their overlayed players.  Maybe i was wrong. 

[east lower]

2 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

The issue is all the noises coming out of the club were that they were strongly expecting top four this season. There are ways expectations could have been managed (via Poch and the media at least) but all the talking up of this team has maybe made things worse than they actually are. Poch not ruling out the title preseason doesn't help.

IMO this is half the cause of conflict among fans on here - do we expect to finish in CL places, or eighth, for example? If the latter then our current run might not be too concerning, if the former then we're close to giving up already.

And maybe some fans still expect us to be doing better than CL places, given all the money we've spent. I am not the first person to say that the owners could have done a better job at setting expectations given how public they have generally been.

But maybe they genuinely still think we could at least get back in the CL with this squad.

My expectations are that we have a competitive team who try their very best and work hard. 

The coach/manager has to organise tactically and motivate. 
 

None of the above seemed to present today and on too many occasions in the recent past.

[chara]

1 hour ago, east lower said:

I promise you……..do not put yourself through it unless you have masochistic tendencies.

It’s truly awful, think the worst of last season, plus.

Throw snowballs at a moose, bear, raccoon it’s better therapy.

Thanks...get all those critters through here..plus Elk, Mule Deer, coyote, fox and the odd mountain lion! Did have a bear face to face over a trash can a few weeks back..8pm and eventually 8ft face off with senior dog going crazy!

Snowballs about as effective as the Chelsea goal machine...Mr Mossburg and OO buck load gave me far more confidence!////no intentions of shooting the creature but scare off unless direct attack..our black bears are not so aggressive as the grizzly...(a couple and their dog killed up in Wyoming that weekend by a grizz) finally got fed up with my dog's argument and trundled off!

Reading the bbc report seems it was a 1-0 game really and just a bonus freebie at the end?

[johnnybozo]

Lmao donkey Nketiah manages a hattrick and dolt Jackson can't hit a barn door.

[east lower]

10 minutes ago, chara said:

Thanks...get all those critters through here..plus Elk, Mule Deer, coyote, fox and the odd mountain lion! Did have a bear face to face over a trash can a few weeks back..8pm and eventually 8ft face off with senior dog going crazy!

Snowballs about as effective as the Chelsea goal machine...Mr Mossburg and OO buck load gave me far more confidence!////no intentions of shooting the creature but scare off unless direct attack..our black bears are not so aggressive as the grizzly...(a couple and their dog killed up in Wyoming that weekend by a grizz) finally got fed up with my dog's argument and trundled off!

Reading the bbc report seems it was a 1-0 game really and just a bonus freebie at the end?

I was trying to be animal friendly, wouldn’t want to harm any of them, unless they came after me or the dawg. Those mountain lions are scary beasts though.
 

BBC not too far off really, but neither side ‘deserved’ to win - they knew how to though.

[blueandproud]

Reminiscent of last years performances under Potter and Frank Lampard.  I'm sick and tired of watching this posession based, Chuckle Brothers football (to me, to you passing), and those crappy one-two's at the dge of the penalty area that never come off.  However, I don't think changing the manager is the answer, who are going to replace Poch with?  Lamps? No thanks.  Mourinho?  Forget it, he's long finished as a manager, his style of play is defunct and obsolete.  Conte?  We've got enough prima donna players, and we don't want a prima donna manager, like we saw at the Spuds when he spat hiis dummy out about the board, Conte finds and his style of play doesn't work any more either.  In short, never go back to your old flames.  Just buy a bloody striker in January!

[johnnybozo]

8 minutes ago, blueandproud said:

Reminiscent of last years performances under Potter and Frank Lampard.  I'm sick and tired of watching this posession based, Chuckle Brothers football (to me, to you passing), and those crappy one-two's at the dge of the penalty area that never come off.  However, I don't think changing the manager is the answer, who are going to replace Poch with?  Lamps? No thanks.  Mourinho?  Forget it, he's long finished as a manager, his style of play is defunct and obsolete.  Conte?  We've got enough prima donna players, and we don't want a prima donna manager, like we saw at the Spuds when he spat hiis dummy out about the board, Conte finds and his style of play doesn't work any more either.  In short, never go back to your old flames.  Just buy a bloody striker in January!

Simeone or Bielsa or someone of the ilk of Ange are the only people to be able to get this ragtag bunch into shape. Maybe a Tommy Tuchel or Conte return.

[Chelsea_Matt]

7 minutes ago, blueandproud said:

Reminiscent of last years performances under Potter and Frank Lampard.  I'm sick and tired of watching this posession based, Chuckle Brothers football (to me, to you passing), and those crappy one-two's at the dge of the penalty area that never come off.  However, I don't think changing the manager is the answer, who are going to replace Poch with?  Lamps? No thanks.  Mourinho?  Forget it, he's long finished as a manager, his style of play is defunct and obsolete.  Conte?  We've got enough prima donna players, and we don't want a prima donna manager, like we saw at the Spuds when he spat hiis dummy out about the board, Conte finds and his style of play doesn't work any more either.  In short, never go back to your old flames.  Just buy a bloody striker in January!

Agree bro. No one seems to know what they’re actually doing. Only Mudryk is the one who runs at the opposition. I don’t advocate another change of manager for goodness sake - I do believe in Poch and as always: who else is there!? 

Since the government stole our club, and persecuted a great, decent and amazing man, we’ve lost our Chelsea. Big time. 

[Chelsea_Matt]

Just now, johnnybozo said:

Simeone or Bielsa or someone of the ilk of Ange are the only people to be able to get this ragtag bunch into shape. Maybe a Tommy Tuchel or Conte return.

Tommy Tee returning. End of next season maybe. 

[chara]

Reading post game comments I feel I don't have to watch the game to be able to understand how it ebbed ! (not flowed!)

Sterling normal performance. it seems ..Chelsea should expect a far more mature and constant influence on the game from him...with the exception of Silva and Cucu..who is no veteran.. the rest are basically learning their trade and bedding into a team all at the same time at a very high level,

FWIW I am in the just get the squad fit and settled  good high middle of the table base to start from next season opinion.

Unrealistic expectations even without the injury curse are a cause of great anguish here....

Dreams of a new coach to suddenly turn things around are just that ,,foolish dreams...we can all make good points about the transfer policy but the squad as it is should develop and start showing results with judicious added personnel as the season progresses and should be in a better position next season..I say should....not will...

This is a completely new squad starting from scratch as it were...doesn't make losing any more palatable but we must stop..me included..acting like entitled brats at every hurdle....no easy fix...long haul and hard work...

The performances have not been acceptable even in the circumstances but either we support OUR club or we are just glory only  (non) fans.

[Dwmh]

So usually I am an anti-over reaction guy, nothing is as bad or as good as the kne-jerks say it was.
But this was very very worrying against a mid-table team
Basically to complain we deserved a draw would be severely missing the point.
This was a local derby - that is where we are right now - Our season is about Fulham and Brentford.
Our next 5 games are all in the top 8 and we are unlikely to be competitive in them.

5 hours ago, martin1905 said:

And let's not mess about, we just lost at home to a team that was fucking rubbish, absolutely shocking from Brentford and we had no answers.

5 hours ago, McCreadie said:

Massive overreaction as usual.

We totally dominated, especially first half and a  2-0  win would not have flattered us in the slightest.  Played some excellent football in patches and struggled for ideas at times - normal. Brentford were well drilled and defended excellently and that can happen. Palmer excellent. Gallagher excellent.  Sterling good first half but ran out of ideas. Felt he was at fault for the goal, leaving Cucurella to deal with 2 players from the throw, while he was literally looking the other way. Cucurella did well again today. Game decided on a few seconds of poor concentration. Tiny margins. Other than that, a decent performance that deserved a win.

Lets put these together.  Yes Brentford were FFing Rubbish.  We had no answers, or rather they had all the answers we had no questions.
Yes we dominated possession, but not shots on target.  For once we had the keeper making the saves.  We went missing at the far when Pinnock attacked the ball and 2 of ours didn't.

Yes it is strange how we keep having some players play really well while getting poor results.  But for all the good game of Colvill, Cucurella, Caicedo, Gallagher, Palmer and even Sanchez today, we had no cutting edge, we re-cycled and re-cycled the ball until we were unable to use it anymore.  Like Michael Keaton in Multiplicity.

Tiny point, on their goal I thought it was Gallagher who went missing covering the run, but it was still a relatively undangerous cross.

 

5 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

Not how I see it. What depresses me is that we worked really hard. I don't mean that as a compliment or defence. Toiled and laboured are the words that come to my mind. I don't think we lack effort. It's much worse than that.

I'd bet we'll see another coach before too long and no improvement or anything different for it.

Yes  -  they did work hard, and it must be depressing for them too.

4 hours ago, McCreadie said:

Brentford had one chance before they scored. That had a couple more when we were chasing the game. We hit the bar and had 3 golden chances 1st half. We only ever looked in trouble with about 5 mins to go. It was a decent performance.

Yes I agree that a lot of their chances (or xG) were very late and irrelevant.
And I really don't care about their 2nd, pushing the keeper up was right.  (Though Maatsen was much too soft for that loose header)

Interesting thought - should Sanchez have taken the Red?  At 1-1?  At 85 mins?
And if we are going to push keepers up front for corners is that why we keep 2 GKs on the bench?

2 hours ago, NoblyBobly said:

Missed everything as I was having a tour of Arundel Castle. It’s an impressive fortress and probably cost a fortune to build . During the civil war the Royalists were defending the castle against Cromwell. The parliamentary forces laid siege to it. All they had to do was cut off the water supply off and in 18 days it was all over. Abject surrender with no fight. 
We are as easy to beat as turning off a tap.  Sorry Poch but the hour glass has been turned over and the grains of sand have started to fall. 

Trying to stop another war myself, water supplies and all that.  Kept trying to over take all the slow walkers as if it were a contest to get from Fulham Broadway to the gates first.  I suspect it wasn't, and maybe I should have joined in with the chanting for once.

Now Poch....

The Poch method of morphing WBs into FBs and CBs into FBs during the game is certainly better worked out that the previous 3 managers.
In this game the uncertainty was Disasi as LCB and Mandueke as WB or Disasi as a conventional sitting FB and Mandueke as the wide wide wide player giving us width but nothing else.  Like an injured Gallas or a young lad called Hutchinson who JM brought on for his only appearance, sat wide, and late late on lobbed the ball in to assist the winner.

All very sensible at 0-0.
I'd never seen Madueke actually do anything for the first team, so when he hit the bar I was quite shocked and ready to reassess.
We then got the biggest non-performing 50 mins I have seen since Kalou.
Disasi looked like a wooden CB playing RB ready for when we went a goal ahead.

But Brentford don't play with 2 strikers in fact they often play with None.  And then suddenly they break with 4 players.
I know it took just 8 mins from their first on 58 to Mandueke and Disasi going off, but it was 66 mins too late.

If I were in the press box post match I'd be asking why was it that 20% of what we created came from the 10, Palmer, and 75%* of the rest came from the left, from Sterling and Cucurella.  So WTF were Sterling and Cucurella the only ones getting into the box to meet crosses? 

So Poch - low expectations have been met.  But I see no purpose in changing now.

 

*That changed on James 2 and 3rd touches.

[Mark Kelly]

Paul Canoville says that if the team aren't on the training pitch tomorrow then something is wrong at the club. 

Acceptable mediocrity I expect. 

[Dwmh]

7 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Paul Canoville says that if the team aren't on the training pitch tomorrow then something is wrong at the club. 

Acceptable mediocrity I expect. 

if?  
Sum of the players
> sum of the performances
> xg
> scorelines
> results*.

Of course something is desperately wrong at the club
For example Man U have scored 2 less than us, and conceded 2 more but are 3 points higher with a game in hand!
On XPts  (expected points on basis that XG gives a probabilistic estimate of points deserved) we would be 5th and just 1 point behind 2nd and 3 points off top!
https://understat.com/league/EPL/2023

[Blue Orca]

2 hours ago, blueandproud said:

Reminiscent of last years performances under Potter and Frank Lampard.  I'm sick and tired of watching this posession based, Chuckle Brothers football (to me, to you passing), and those crappy one-two's at the dge of the penalty area that never come off.  However, I don't think changing the manager is the answer, who are going to replace Poch with?  Lamps? No thanks.  Mourinho?  Forget it, he's long finished as a manager, his style of play is defunct and obsolete.  Conte?  We've got enough prima donna players, and we don't want a prima donna manager, like we saw at the Spuds when he spat hiis dummy out about the board, Conte finds and his style of play doesn't work any more either.  In short, never go back to your old flames.  Just buy a bloody striker in January!

And a goalkeeper, as Sanchez is a busted flush. Even the opposition realise this. 

[Original 21]

1 hour ago, Dwmh said:

So Poch - low expectations have been met.  But I see no purpose in changing now.

I had high expectations of Pochettinho, but really surprised  by how consistently he underestimates teams in the lower half. If we were playing Man City today rather than Brentford would he really have not risked Mudryk and Enzo, and started Disasi at right back with Madueke and Jackson upfront? Was that really our strongest team in its best formation?

It didn’t take long for Thomas Frank to completely screw us over in the second half with some basic tactical tweaking, while we just went out with more of the same, hoping for the best. Once they scored we were like deer in the headlights of an oncoming car. 

It was not Poch’s finest hour and a half. 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Original 21

[Dwmh]

8 minutes ago, Original 21 said:

I had high expectations of Pochettinho, but really surprised  by how consistently he underestimates teams in the lower half. If we were playing Man City today rather than Brentford would he really have not risked Mudryk and Enzo, and started Disasi at right back with Madueke and Jackson upfront? Was that really our strongest team in its best formation?

So games which should be a foregone conclusion are opportunities to rest players and avoid risks on minor ailments.
Games where the result is unclear and may make a big difference to our end position are the opposite.
Rest Mudryk and Enzo at City, play both and James against Brentford.  Simples.

[east lower]

1 hour ago, Blue Orca said:

And a goalkeeper, as Sanchez is a busted flush. Even the opposition realise this. 

He is, and I saw it within a few games….……but to the shame of the rest of that side of ours out there today, he was the only one bothered enough to at least chase back to try and prevent their second.