Chelsea 0 Brentford 2

[Original 21]

5 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

So games which should be a foregone conclusion are opportunities to rest players and avoid risks on minor ailments.
Games where the result is unclear and may make a big difference to our end position are the opposite.
Rest Mudryk and Enzo at City, play both and James against Brentford.  Simples.

Maybe they wouldn’t have been fit enough to start even if we were playing City today. I just don’t think we can assume any game right now is a foregone conclusion. We need to pick up as many points as we can. Even without Enzo and Mudryk, I’m not convinced that was our best starting line up. Anyway, I don’t think Jackson and Madueke passed the audition. And I’d be surprised if Poch tries Disasi as right wing-back again. 

[johnnybozo]

22 minutes ago, Original 21 said:

I had high expectations of Pochettinho, but really surprised  by how consistently he underestimates teams in the lower half. If we were playing Man City today rather than Brentford would he really have not risked Mudryk and Enzo, and started Disasi at right back with Madueke and Jackson upfront? Was that really our strongest team in its best formation?

It didn’t take long for Thomas Frank to completely screw us over in the second half with some basic tactical tweaking, while we just went out with more of the same, hoping for the best. Once they scored we were like deer in the headlights of an oncoming car. 

It was not Poch’s finest hour and a half. 

This mentality would work if the team were drilled with a Jose or Conte like philosophy of - KNOW YOUR ROLES. But unfortunately we have a squad of soulless clowns who are robotic copies of what football has become. No creativity. No drive. No chance. Only players who seem to actually want to do anything are Gallagher, Colwill and Palmer. And out of those three Palmer is the only one of those three who has the technical skill to create something.

[Original 21]

One other thing. That performance today was us with a week’s rest and preparation. And we still managed to get two key players injured on the day before the game. Can you imagine the state of the side if we were playing midweek European games? We wouldn’t be able to cope. 

[xceleryx]

Can't say I'm surprised to see what I have coming into this thread, par for the course these days I suppose. 

Thought we played well enough to walk away with a win. Credit Brentford for being well organised, they're a difficult side capable of beating anyone if the defend well with men behind the ball and then get a bit of luck down the other end - which is exactly what transpired in this one. 

Our first half really should've had the game put to bed. We found ourselves in more than enough good attacking positions, but alas the achillies heel of this side remains its finishing and proficiency around goal. 17 shots on goal only to register 2 on target underlines our biggest problem. We just don't test the opposition keeper with any regularity, and any team is going to find it tough going to score goals when that's the case. 

The loss of Mudryk and Enzo didn't help, it robbed us of speed and directness out wide, plus Enzo's ball movement in the middle. On a more positive note, Palmer looked good yet again. Gallagher was solid once more, as was Cucurella. With Sterling being a threat on occasion himself. 

But it is what it is, this is part of being patient and acknowledging the consistency issues we're going to face this season. All part and parcel of being a young side that's a work in progress. Gotta ride out the bumps in the road, it's not as if we're being played off the park or look entirely lost and incompetent on the pitch as was often the case last season. We've certainly improved, just lacking a bit of quality and refinement in some key areas hat help decide matches.

We keep moving forward. 

[Floyd25]

54 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

they're a difficult side capable of beating anyone if the defend well with men behind the ball and then get a bit of luck down the other end - which is exactly what transpired in this one. 

It’s exactly what transpires against any team we play that has a low block, nothing changes. 

54 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Our first half really should've had the game put to bed. We found ourselves in more than enough good attacking positions

How many clear cut chances did we create? One that fell to Cucurella, can’t think of many more. 

54 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

All part and parcel of being a young side that's a work in progress. Gotta ride out the bumps in the road, it's not as if we're being played off the park or look entirely lost and incompetent on the pitch as was often the case last season.

This is rinse and repeat, all due respect, actually we looked just as lost as last season at times during the match, aimlessly knocking the ball about. 

54 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

We've certainly improved, just lacking a bit of quality and refinement in some key areas hat help decide matches.

We keep moving forward. 

kind of what happens when you spend all of your money on kids and a young striker who looks lost and then bank on them coming good within two years, can’t believe anyone thinks that’s a sound strategy. Look at our fixture list, we’re moving down not forwards. 

Edited October 29, 2023 by Floyd25

[kev61]

Never watched the game as it is low down in my priorities,however I have read every page on here about the game.

It seems we are going 1 step forward and 2 steps back.

This possession based football doesn't work.Did we not have less possession against Arsenal?.

The thing that gets me is why are we still playing this possession based crap with different managers?

You would think a new manager would bring in new ideas and put his stamp on things.

I see nothing  in that with Poch.It seems to me Poch is trying to play safe.

We have many injuries that could play a part in our dilemma,but I don't see anything different in Poch from all the other managers that were sacked,except for Tuchel who should never been sacked.

People are talking about buying more players.I think it's time Poch walked,not because I think he is totally to blame but when you lose to the likes of Notts Forest and Brentford at home and showing no signs of a plan or progression it's probably better to give a different manager a chance.

 

[xceleryx]

9 minutes ago, Floyd25 said:

It’s exactly what transpires against any team we play that has a low block, nothing changes. 

It's almost as if it's harder to play against 10 men behind the ball constantly. Yet, we still fashioned enough opportunities to score. 

10 minutes ago, Floyd25 said:

How many clear cut chances did we create? One that fell to Cucurella, can’t think of many more. 

And? If a team is relying solely on clear cut chances then it's equally as problematic. What sets clinical teams and players apart is that they take advantage of those half chances that come about. 

14 minutes ago, Floyd25 said:

This is rinse and repeat, all due respect, actually we looked just as lost as last season at times during the match, aimlessly knocking the ball about. 

We still may retain the core issue when it comes to scoring goals, but the rest of our play is far more improved compared to what it was last season. Last season we failed to create much of anything in most games, this season we're actually getting into better attacking positions, we're just don't test the keeper often enough. Then when we do create scoreable opportunities we fluff our lines. 

18 minutes ago, Floyd25 said:

kind of what happens when you spend all of your money on kids and a young striker who looks lost and then bank on them coming good within two years, can’t believe anyone thinks that’s a sound strategy. Look at our fixture list, we’re moving down not forwards. 

Young players require time, what a surprise. This is why it's called a project, things aren't meant to be 100% proficient immediately. It's going to take time, it's up to the supporter base to acknowledge this and readjust expectations accordingly. Rather than just seeing the amount of money spent, the past reputation of the club, and expecting us to be challenging for honours. It's not as if we were remotely close to challenging for a title with how things were prior either. 

[kev61]

Just watched motd.

I said after the Arsenal game Gusto should have been aware of players coming in from the blind side.

It happened again with their first goal.It is a basic coaching instruction.

Has  Poch instructed this? or does he not see it? or has it not sunk in with the players.

It happens all too frequently and should be a basic requirement for a wide full back.

[Chelsea_Matt]

4 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Can't say I'm surprised to see what I have coming into this thread, par for the course these days I suppose. 

Thought we played well enough to walk away with a win. Credit Brentford for being well organised, they're a difficult side capable of beating anyone if the defend well with men behind the ball and then get a bit of luck down the other end - which is exactly what transpired in this one. 

Our first half really should've had the game put to bed. We found ourselves in more than enough good attacking positions, but alas the achillies heel of this side remains its finishing and proficiency around goal. 17 shots on goal only to register 2 on target underlines our biggest problem. We just don't test the opposition keeper with any regularity, and any team is going to find it tough going to score goals when that's the case. 

The loss of Mudryk and Enzo didn't help, it robbed us of speed and directness out wide, plus Enzo's ball movement in the middle. On a more positive note, Palmer looked good yet again. Gallagher was solid once more, as was Cucurella. With Sterling being a threat on occasion himself. 

But it is what it is, this is part of being patient and acknowledging the consistency issues we're going to face this season. All part and parcel of being a young side that's a work in progress. Gotta ride out the bumps in the road, it's not as if we're being played off the park or look entirely lost and incompetent on the pitch as was often the case last season. We've certainly improved, just lacking a bit of quality and refinement in some key areas hat help decide matches.

We keep moving forward. 

There’s being patient, and there’s absolutely unacceptable. 

[Mark Kelly]

Watched the replay and we weren't as bad as the result would lead you to believe but we had two good chances from Cucu and Sterling that we should have capitalised on which would have seen us go 2-0 up . Proper players score those .

Both goals were so irredeemably poor that there really is cause for punishment for those responsible. That was clown football from beginning to end ,  absolutely appalling.

[Chelsea_Matt]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

Watched the replay and we weren't as bad as the result would lead you to believe but we had two good chances from Cucu and Sterling that we should have capitalised on which would have seen us go 2-0 up . Proper players score those .

Both goals were so irredeemably poor that there really is cause for punishment for those responsible. That was clown football from beginning to end ,  absolutely appalling.

 

[Michael Tucker]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

Both goals were so irredeemably poor that there really is cause for punishment for those responsible. That was clown football from beginning to end ,  absolutely appalling.

And not for the first time! Just awful.

[Chelsea_Matt]

34 minutes ago, Michael Tucker said:

And not for the first time! Just awful.

There is one thing for the second goal. And I agree it looked terrible. But we were one down deep into injury time. Sending Sánchez up wasn’t such a daft idea but the risk obviously is that we concede on the break. 0-1 or 0-2, it doesn’t matter. The first goal was unacceptable imo. 

[My Blood Is Blue]

1 hour ago, Michael Tucker said:

And not for the first time! Just awful.

This is the thing that sums it all up for me and why frustration is so high. We’ve seen yesterdays performances, lack of finishing and stupid mistakes so so often over the last couple of years.

[McCreadie]

7 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Can't say I'm surprised to see what I have coming into this thread, par for the course these days I suppose. 

Thought we played well enough to walk away with a win. Credit Brentford for being well organised, they're a difficult side capable of beating anyone if the defend well with men behind the ball and then get a bit of luck down the other end - which is exactly what transpired in this one. 

Our first half really should've had the game put to bed. We found ourselves in more than enough good attacking positions, but alas the achillies heel of this side remains its finishing and proficiency around goal. 17 shots on goal only to register 2 on target underlines our biggest problem. We just don't test the opposition keeper with any regularity, and any team is going to find it tough going to score goals when that's the case. 

The loss of Mudryk and Enzo didn't help, it robbed us of speed and directness out wide, plus Enzo's ball movement in the middle. On a more positive note, Palmer looked good yet again. Gallagher was solid once more, as was Cucurella. With Sterling being a threat on occasion himself. 

But it is what it is, this is part of being patient and acknowledging the consistency issues we're going to face this season. All part and parcel of being a young side that's a work in progress. Gotta ride out the bumps in the road, it's not as if we're being played off the park or look entirely lost and incompetent on the pitch as was often the case last season. We've certainly improved, just lacking a bit of quality and refinement in some key areas hat help decide matches.

We keep moving forward. 

Excellent post, eloquently put.

[east lower]

7 hours ago, kev61 said:

People are talking about buying more players.I think it's time Poch walked,not because I think he is totally to blame but when you lose to the likes of Notts Forest and Brentford at home and showing no signs of a plan or progression it's probably better to give a different manager a chance.

 

This paragraph speaks volumes for me, new manager and the best part of a £1billion spent and we cannot manage a single point from those two home games. 
 

We are a messed-up shambles and have been since the new owners took over. Appoint a coach/manager with a proven track record, that’s not hard to do. Winning a one-horse race one time, then losing that the next year isn’t much of a record. The current coaching staff have had the players together for well over 3 months, anyone care to venture forward any improvements. Any players that we see whose personal performances are better? Any slick passing movements being consistently delivered? Any reduction in the basic defensive errors we make.
 

We have to face facts, we’re currently the laughing-stock currency in the PL.  My message boxes tell me that!

One of the key elements of good leadership is the ability to understand when something is wrong and to correct the course, problem is that not only the coach is flawed but the people above him couldn’t pick a right-un from a wrong-un.

[ROTG]

7 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Young players require time, what a surprise. This is why it's called a project, things aren't meant to be 100% proficient immediately. It's going to take time, it's up to the supporter base to acknowledge this and readjust expectations accordingly. Rather than just seeing the amount of money spent, the past reputation of the club, and expecting us to be challenging for honours.

What sort of response do you think you would get on your statement above from the 40k who are spending there hard earned money to watch the games home and away.  Maybe the club tell everyone to take a few years off from coming to SB until, with a bit of luck the project comes to fruition?

8 hours ago, xceleryx said:

It's not as if we were remotely close to challenging for a title with how things were prior either. 

Let put it like this, there was a lot more optimism those days and even if the big one didn’t come to fruition, there was a high possibility of delivering silverware .

 

[ROTG]

12 minutes ago, east lower said:

One of the key elements of good leadership is the ability to understand when something is wrong and to correct the course, problem is that not only the coach is flawed but the people above him couldn’t pick a right-un from a wrong-un.

Unfortunately America owners know better. 
 

look at Bournemouth, Birmingham are other examples of owners having data led epiphanies. Along with Manure since SAF left, the arse were a shambles during and after Wenger.
Probably only the dippers is the only America owned team where it’s works because the manager runs the club and recruitment. 
 

they alleged state run clubs have a more traditional approach to running a football club. The table doesn’t lie. 

Edited October 29, 2023 by ROTG

[xceleryx]

3 minutes ago, ROTG said:

What sort of response do you think you would get on your statement above from the 40k who are spending there hard earned money to watch the games home and away.  Maybe the club tell everyone to take a few years off from coming to SB until, with a bit of luck the project comes to fruition?

Supporting a club or team doesn't just stop when you aren't winning games - whether one is spending money or not.  If that's the demographic attending match days for us then the less of them the better. Maybe that's whats actually needed. It might improve the library atmosphere that's we're often critiqued over.

11 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Let put it like this, there was a lot more optimism those days and even if the big one didn’t come to fruition, there was a high possibility of delivering silverware .

Yeah, just enough to paper over the cracks and continue to ignore the long standing issues we had. Just so we could rinse and repeat a cycle that had us so far off a title challenge, and at times barely scarping a top 4 finish in itself. 

[Mark Kelly]

The big issue with Poch is two fold , one he's literally scared of every team we play , he picks his side based on what they will do to us and not what we can do to them and two he's trying to reinvent the wheel . 

Once Reece James is fit there's absolutely no chance that the best right back in the division will be played as a right back , to show what a deep thinker he is and a master tactician Poch will play him on the wing and in all probability pick Disasi out of position again because of "the big boys" .

I can understand this to a degree given we cannot score from open play but playing good players out of position isn't helping them or us .

He's too cowardly , he really is .

I don't really want rid I just want him to stop being a wuss about everything.

Also , it would be a start if he could be more vocal about refereeing errors instead of being all nicey nicey all the time , particularly when they're mugging us off every chance they get .

[Holymoly]

Thomas Frank has won more games at Stamford Bridge in the last year than SFL and Maurice Cappucino combined. Fact.

We've been rubbish against a low block for what, five years maybe? Doesn't matter who the manager is but I'll tell you what the reason is. Simple fact, Fabregas and Hazard both left in 2019. Since then we have had zero inspiration in midfield and zero ability to run at defenses. We swapped Fabregas for Jorginho and Hazard was sold with no replacement brought in at all.

For all the pretty passing, the cute triangles we have no-one in the squad to play a killer ball, no-one running at defenders and no-one in the penalty box waiting to finish off chances. If we could roll back this squad five or six years and insert Fabregas, Hazard and Costa into the team we would be top of the league.

This is the trouble with playing moneyball with the squad. You end up with a bunch of players that are all very good but the one quality you can't find on a speadsheet is flair and it is entirely missing from the current squad. It is telling when a player like Cole Palmer is being lauded as the saviour of the club. Yes, he's a very good player but he is a modern day Peter Crouch or Emile Heskey, a player that can adorn an otherwise very good group of players, he is not one to lead them out of the pit we find ourselves in presently. Cole Palmer could be 10/10 every single game and it would still not influence the end result.

So what's the solution? Unfortunately I think we need to find not one but three players in order to compete. Midfield general, explosive midfielder capable of running with the ball at defenders and a physical striker that can score goals. Just acquiring one would probably be a waste of money without the other two. The trouble is because of FFP we are stuck with the players we have. I don't see glory days returning to Chelsea FC any time soon, and I'm talking over a decade.

[enzogoat1]

When do we start having a proper Poch discussion, we should be doing better, no excuses. 

 

Ange's proves Poch should be doing better

[east lower]

16 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Supporting a club or team doesn't just stop when you aren't winning games - whether one is spending money or not.  If that's the demographic attending match days for us then the less of them the better. Maybe that's whats actually needed. It might improve the library atmosphere that's we're often critiqued .

Do you actually not believe that almost every other football club in the PL faces that same issue, do you recall when the Man City fans were booing off their team a couple of seasons ago with PG basically giving them a boll**king. When you paid for a fillet-mignon and you get served up a bit of old scrag-end, you might not be best pleased and cheer-on the chef.

21 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Yeah, just enough to paper over the cracks and continue to ignore the long standing issues we had. Just so we could rinse and repeat a cycle that had us so far off a title challenge, and at times barely scarping a top 4 finish in itself. 

You repeat this ‘papering over the cracks’ statement. We consistently finished in the top four, playing at at a time when two of the highest achieving PL teams with arguably two of the best PL managers were at their pomp. Best realistically achievable was what we were achieving. 
 

Now we’re massively underperforming and underachieving. They’ve ripped it up and started again and that’s never worked in the PL. Pep’s and Klopp’s teams evolve, the latter seemingly doing it on a budget way less than ours. 

Forced into the change by the UK Government for popularity reasons - by the way anyone seen any evidence of the funds of the sale being given to the Ukrainian people yet?

It’s a matter of time before they sack MP and go again. Get a proven winner in, 3 months in and no measurable improvement.

I witnessed players not reacting to second balls and no-one taking a lead on that pitch yesterday. It happens consistently this season. Plus he’s got another sought after, highly rated player in addition to Potter and gotten rid of the supposed players that were ‘creating’ the playing problems.

A manager for the improvement of ordinary players maybe, but a high achiever - not.

[Dwmh]

35 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Yeah, just enough to paper over the cracks and continue to ignore the long standing issues we had. Just so we could rinse and repeat a cycle that had us so far off a title challenge, and at times barely scarping a top 4 finish in itself. 

I really don't recall that the team that finished 3rd pre CreamCakes, had anything like the cracks or longterm issues that this team has.

Top of the 18 team sub-competition by some way.

28 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

Thomas Frank has won more games at Stamford Bridge in the last year than SFL and Maurice Cappucino combined. Fact.

Wow.  And I like Cappucino.  

So these are the Cappucino years.

 

31 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

This is the trouble with playing moneyball with the squad. You end up with a bunch of players that are all very good but the one quality you can't find on a speadsheet is flair and it is entirely missing from the current squad.

I dunno.  I agree that building a team with tactics is more complex in football than in baseball or cricket where it really is about the sum of individual performances.
But Brighton and Brentford as far as I can tell have done pretty well as money ball teams.
Perhaps the limit for pure moneyball is 5th place and no higher.
 

[Bison]

How many years has it been since we've consistently been able to win a game when the oppsoiton are in a deep block? Even towards the end of the Hazard years, unless he did something very special it didn't feel like we'd won those games regularly. So it's 5 years and counting of being unable to do much when the opposition are organised.