Tottenham Hotspur 1 Chelsea 4

[Mark Kelly]

8 hours ago, paulw66 said:

Naivity! 

Seasons greetings 

[Floyd25]

1 hour ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

So much negativity on here after a 4-1 away against an unbeaten Spurs side… come on guys, just enjoy the win!

To be fair, it’s a lot more negative on social media, for me I’m happy we beat spurs and they capitulated in hilarious fashion, although the obvious concerns will linger on. 

[Holymoly]

8 hours ago, Dwmh said:

Nevermind Poch having a go at the performance - someone seriously has to question our tactics and inability to beat the high line.

It now appears any form of line, low, high or thin blue provides us with problems. At least we got through it this time.

[kev61]

5 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

It now appears any form of line, low, high or thin blue provides us with problems. At least we got through it this time.

Another waffle performance by the king of waffle.I almost feel sorry  for Droy if he hadn't launched a scathing a attack on me.

[exiledblue]

2 things when we were playing against 9

• Why didnt we put the ball behind them more often to tire and stretch them? We seemed content to try and hold a 1 goal lead and pass back or sideways when forwards were starting runs and being ignored
• How many times did we conceed fouls? This gave up possession and let them waste time.

Other:

Good call to take of Colwill, he should have walked away

Sanchez is no upgrade, he terrifies me with the ball at his feet

Happy to see James get time and no injury

Mudryk is another Werner. Has talent but is too eager

Jackson is still not up to speed with Prem, he gets the ball taken off him to easily

Gallagher is impressing with his constant availability

Nice everyone wants to walk the ball in but sometimes a sideways pass to a free teammate is better

Cuca touched his hair less last night

Always nice to beat Spurs

[CarefreeMuratcan]

30 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

I like winning however it comes. Some people on here seem to prefer us to lose so they can grasp anything that validates their opinions.

I agree with this but it's worth pointing out that we have lost/drawn games where we have looked more convincing and won this game where we looked less convincing overall (although just before the first sending off we were all over them 11 vs 11). 

So it's all a bit of chaos at the moment. But it's normal for a team still gelling and still learning. 

[martin1905]

On of the best games I have been to. Ever. The excitement and entertainment was incredible and we beat them 4-1 in their own backyard. Not only that, we destroyed their season. With the injuries and sending offs, they won't cope in the next few games.

Also Postecoglou is an absolute mug. They'd have beaten us if they just played their game. They may play a high line normally but not like that, not that high, constantly. I'd be fuming if a manager did that for us. Funny thing was their fans were really pleased. Sums them up as a football club. So used to not winning they'd rather see that than them win a game of football. I mean, they actually applauded when we went in front, I've never seen anything like it. Was really odd.

Unfortunately Pochettino really let himself down. Any other team in the league would have destroyed them playing like that yet we decided to have four players standing offside most of the time.

We looked completely clueless and aimless. We don't know how to play football. All we had to do was be patient and make our runs from deep yet we just stayed really high, so high we were offfside most of the time, even though they were on the half way line at their deepest! Then we just kept hitting hopeful, long balls over the top. It was school boy stuff.

Blame the board, blame the players, blame the manager. What can not be up for debate is, regardless of personnel we need an awful lot of work on the training ground which is my biggest disappointment with Pochettino. I thought if nothing else he would get us well drilled and look like we know what we are doing. It's Potter like and that's about as damming a statement as you could make about any football manager. 

 

 

[martin1905]

Just imagine what Man City would have done to them last night.

[Thiago97]

4 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Just imagine what Man City would have done to them last night.

City , Liverpool, Villa would have scored at least 6 goals……cos they all have experienced players who know the game and would know how to adapt to the situation in front of them. 

We on the other hand, very nearly choked with the situation that was presented. It was a freakish set of circumstances, in a high pressure scenario. We lost our heads and fear started to set it.

Poch was getting hugely frustrated by the team trying to force the situation. You could see him on tv trying to get a grip of the players and get them to relax and be calm, and keep possession and wait for the right time to break. The players went full naive and looked to slip Sterling / Jackson pace in behind straight away. 
 

We see things differently, cos I come away from that game with the onus being on the players lack of understanding and experience as being the issue. These are high quality players, they should not need the manager to spell the situation out when 11 vs 9. You are right it as schoolboy stuff.  Just look at the Dier goal, that must have been something like and 8v5 back there, he ended up unmarked and in space. 

[east lower]

21 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Just imagine what Man City would have done to them last night.

Unfortunately, just imagine what Man City might do to us this weekend if we start like we did last night! 
 

One take on last night was they were far too pumped-up and ultimately that’s why they ended the game with 9 men. They celebrated their goal (the one that counted) right in front of me and Romero was out of control hyped, chest bumping like he was trying to knock the other fella over amongst other over exuberant nonsense. That set their tone.

Pleased with our reaction after their disallowed goal (would have been 2-0), that woke us up. Not too pleased with the naivety displayed when they went to 9 men. Refusing clear rolled through simple passes their high-line and over-hitting numerous ones, but got there in the end. 
 

Didn’t seem to win our defensive headers either, which caused a few issues!

Strangely reminiscent Spuds performance of the one under MP, when Leicester won the title - but with reds that should have happened back then.

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by east lower

[Max Fowler]

I think ultimately it comes down to this. Poch was clearly pretty unhappy with some of our football last night, he was puffing his cheeks out in relief at the end. So, to have a go at Chelsea fans for being worried is a bit much. It also takes its toll to see the result slipping away from us on television. However, as I've said before, a win's a win in whatever form. 

The boys actually deserve credit for not losing their heads and getting red cards. It was a tough place to play and we are low on confidence, they are high. I thought Silva, Disasi, Cucurella, Reece, Gallagher, Caicedo, Palmer, Sterling and Jackson largely gave a good account of themselves - there's some likeable lads in there and we are much better than last season.

Question marks remain about Poch's ability to imprint himself on this team, more so after last night I would say. Apparently Enzo was questioning his tactics from the bench and Reece had to shut him up.

[JaneB]

9 hours ago, Leo said:

What a mental game. Absolutely exhausted shouting at the naivety of our play but as said, 1-4 at Spurs, they capitulated once again against us (what is their problem with us!? 🤣). 

Are you Leo from the old site?

If so, welcome back 🤗

[Sleeping Dave]

Well well well. The VAR team and Mr Oliver can’t be too pleased with that performance. Very random and I think they got nearly every decision wrong on the night. 

Son’s goal was very close, I think it should have stood. But that goes for Sterling’s goal as well - how is he supposed to avoid “handling” the ball? The Caicedo goal was a travesty - 100% a goal - not even a discussion. But somehow they manage to find a red card on Romero, who on the face of it was nowhere near as bad as the challenge from Udobie. 

As for the game, it should have been 2-1 to us and 11 v 11 for the rest of the game. How that would have ended is anyone’s guess, but I think it would have ended up a high-scoring draw. 

How we got rinsed £115m for Caicedo is anyone’s guess. Enzo was pretty poor as well. 

[Thiago97]

40 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I think ultimately it comes down to this. Poch was clearly pretty unhappy with some of our football last night, he was puffing his cheeks out in relief at the end. So, to have a go at Chelsea fans for being worried is a bit much. It also takes its toll to see the result slipping away from us on television. However, as I've said before, a win's a win in whatever form. 

The boys actually deserve credit for not losing their heads and getting red cards. It was a tough place to play and we are low on confidence, they are high. I thought Silva, Disasi, Cucurella, Reece, Gallagher, Caicedo, Palmer, Sterling and Jackson largely gave a good account of themselves - there's some likeable lads in there and we are much better than last season.

Question marks remain about Poch's ability to imprint himself on this team, more so after last night I would say. Apparently Enzo was questioning his tactics from the bench and Reece had to shut him up.

I get what you are saying here. I would say that we did lose our heads though, we just didn't have anything consequential like a red card, to show from us losing our heads. We nearly became involved in evening that up, but just managed to hang onto the right side. We lost our heads with how to get out of the situation and control the match. There was a glaze of fear come across a number of our players from when spurs went down to 9 men. In fairness, it was a freak situation and scenario. 9 men is rare, but it is just freakish to play 9 men who carry on playing the same way!

Obviously, I am delighted with the result, but I came away from that game with a very uneasy feel. If I was a neutral, I would have loved that game. Not being a neutral, I just didn't enjoy it at all, and I still felt a bit like that at the end whistle. I just felt an overwhelming sense of relief really, not excitement or enjoyment. I don't think that all just the football side of things though, the whole VAR affect across the whole game and number of incidents, left me feeling a mixture of mentally exhausted and frustrated. 

I think partly cos I don't know how we would have recovered, had we not picked up that win.

[thevelourfog]

Jesus, where to start?

I think Udogie not getting a straight red even after VAR intervention is up there with the worst VAR decisions I have ever seen. It is completely bizarre to see Spurs being written up as have-a-go-heroes, battling on through adversity, when the plain reality is that the game plan was to assault us at every opportunity. And for a good while they were allowed to, it was only the prospect of having to allow us an offside goal that pushed the officials into action. They were beyond aggressive to the point of violence, and seemed very wound up by the fact that (unlike our last few meetings) we had a few players who wouldn't stand for it.

The second half football was, and it is true if a bit deflating, rubbish. I think we were better, first 10 or so minutes aside, against their full XI. To constantly have 3 or 4 players offside against a team who have put all their defenders on the half way line is really poor. It wouldn't bother me that we took a while to break down 9 players if the football itself had been good, a goal is worth the same no matter when it is scored. 

Still, it's funny to batter Spurs and see all their supporters claim a moral victory, and good to see some goals and a victory. One to enjoy for the night rather than to herald as a turning point, IMO.

[Thiago97]

6 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Well well well. The VAR team and Mr Oliver can’t be too pleased with that performance. Very random and I think they got nearly every decision wrong on the night. 

Son’s goal was very close, I think it should have stood. But that goes for Sterling’s goal as well - how is he supposed to avoid “handling” the ball? The Caicedo goal was a travesty - 100% a goal - not even a discussion. But somehow they manage to find a red card on Romero, who on the face of it was nowhere near as bad as the challenge from Udobie. 

As for the game, it should have been 2-1 to us and 11 v 11 for the rest of the game. How that would have ended is anyone’s guess, but I think it would have ended up a high-scoring draw. 

How we got rinsed £115m for Caicedo is anyone’s guess. Enzo was pretty poor as well. 

In general I agree. Football is just not designed to be played with such fine margins involved. 

Though I would disagree with the Sterling goal.  He can't do anything about it, it is more an unfortunate ricochet, but I think that has to be ruled out in that scenario. When the hand plays such a pivotal role in Sterling being able to score the goal, I think you have to cancel that goal, one it has been reviewed. 

The Son and Caicedo ones are just ridiculous margins. Seeing goals like this cancelled out really does make you fall out of love with the game. You cannot even naturally celebrate a goal now. I fell for it again yesterday by celebrating Sterling's goal, but then didnt celebrate the others naturally , due to waiting to see if there is a 1mm difference somewhere in the build up.

It has just made the game horrible.

[Max Fowler]

14 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

I get what you are saying here. I would say that we did lose our heads though, we just didn't have anything consequential like a red card, to show from us losing our heads. We nearly became involved in evening that up, but just managed to hang onto the right side. We lost our heads with how to get out of the situation and control the match. There was a glaze of fear come across a number of our players from when spurs went down to 9 men. In fairness, it was a freak situation and scenario. 9 men is rare, but it is just freakish to play 9 men who carry on playing the same way!

Obviously, I am delighted with the result, but I came away from that game with a very uneasy feel. If I was a neutral, I would have loved that game. Not being a neutral, I just didn't enjoy it at all, and I still felt a bit like that at the end whistle. I just felt an overwhelming sense of relief really, not excitement or enjoyment. I don't think that all just the football side of things though, the whole VAR affect across the whole game and number of incidents, left me feeling a mixture of mentally exhausted and frustrated. 

I think partly cos I don't know how we would have recovered, had we not picked up that win.

Yes honestly I was ready to join Poch out if we were unable to score against 9 men, or didn't get the win, which at some points looked a genuine possibility. But we did so well done Poch!

I don't think we lost our heads, we lost our confidence. And yes we gave away silly foul after silly foul, but we also didn't make dangerous challenge after dangerous challenge. They lost the game for that reason, we didn't!

[RDCW]

10 hours ago, Ham said:

We were on top from the Udogie two footed challenge onwards.  We were inches away from being 2 or 3-1 up.  Then we equalised. 

The game had already changed. We sussed out the high line and Sterling was having the right back on toast. 

Jesus.  This forum is a joke. 

 

Agree. The negativity on here is truly astonishing. We could easily have had 9 last night. We had already cracked their high line and I think we would have won that game v 11. As for struggling against 9 men, our boys were guilty of over eagerness and increasing nervousness, but still scored 3 more goals.

The opening sequence was a bit scary, but it was entirely due to Spurs' being set up to a committed attacking philosophy (fun but facile and exemplified by Ange's silly post match "We could go down to 5 and still have a crack" remark).  The game tilted in our favour, not once they started losing players, but once we had weathered the early storm and started counter attacking their high line.

[My Blood Is Blue]

I have to agree with what other people have said on here about VAR, it really is ruining the game. You genuinely can't celebrate goals anymore, 9/10 times even if you think it's all absolutely fine, VAR will be looking for that moment that nobody else would ever have picked up on and find a reason to rule the goal out... this isn't how it should be. VAR should pick up clear and obvious errors made by the ref, but other than that I think it should be left to the ref to ask specific questions, eg "Can you check for me in the build-up whether player A used his hand to control the ball, as I couldn't quite see from my angle" and then they check that and nothing more.

[My Blood Is Blue]

1 minute ago, RDCW said:

Agree. The negativity on here is truly astonishing. We could easily have had 9 last night. We had already cracked their high line and I think we would have won that game v 11. As for struggling against 9 men, our boys were guilty of over eagerness and increasing nervousness, but still scored 3 more goals.

The opening sequence was a bit scary, but it was entirely due to Spurs' being set up to a committed attacking philosophy (fun but facile and exemplified by Ange's silly post match "We could go down to 5 and still have a crack" remark).  The game tilted in our favour, not once they started losing players, but once we had weathered the early storm and started counter attacking their high line.

I completely agree, you could see fairly early on, that the ball in behind was on almost constantly and we had enough pace in our team to exploit it. It looked more of a case of when and not if we would get our goals. How many we would have kept out would have been the only issue, it probably would have made for a high scoring draw in the end.

Ange's comments after the game were exactly as you described, silly. It's all great now whilst they're winning and near the top and all the pundits love him and the way they're playing, but if they hit a rough patch of form and continue to play in this way, especially with a line as high as last nights, then he'll start to get slaughtered and rightly so.

[paulw66]

Some other points that I haven't seen mentioned yet..........on current form Cucurella should be LB. Did well again yesterday.

Cole Palmer - what a talent. You can tell he has been schooled at a proper academy. Plays with a maturity and intelligence beyond his years. 

[RDCW]

11 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

One thing about Jackson - he seems quite good at the dragged first time finishes that come across his body in 2 vs 1 situations.

Although they were easy finishes, you could also imagine some of our previous forwards fluffing them.

He seems less convincing with headers, half chances in the box etc. But he seems a likeable guy and hopefully he can improve!

Yes, they are all easy until you remember Torres, Morata, Havertz, Werner, Lukaku, Remy, Bats, Kerman, Sturridge, Di Santo, Pizzaro, Patrick, Hudson-Odoi....Sutton, Fleck etc and how difficult they made them look.

[RDCW]

10 hours ago, paulw66 said:

Naivity! 

A bit early in the season for the former 😉

[east lower]

Right...........................................so listening to the aftermath of the game on Sky Sports News, was the revelation that the walking red-card that is Romero wasn't send-off for his kick-out at Colwill because it was deemed 'petulant' and not reckless. So now you can have a 'petulant' kick-out at an opponent and it's all  OK. I wonder when 'petulant' becomes violent, probably when a Chelsea player does exactly the same.  - You play with fire Spuds, you should know you'll get burned. Sign someone with his characteristics and it should be no surprise that he'll get himself sent off twice a season or more. He even went over-the-top on his Argentine world-cup winning team-mate!

I do wonder though, if the aftermath of the non-decision with the kick-out did contribute to the straight-red he received a bit later-on. Like I said earlier in the thread, he was out of control since the start of the game.

Edited November 7, 2023 by east lower

[Chelsea_Matt]

17 minutes ago, RDCW said:

Yes, they are all easy until you remember Torres, Morata, Havertz, Werner, Lukaku, Remy, Bats, Kerman, Sturridge, Di Santo, Pizzaro, Patrick, Hudson-Odoi....Sutton, Fleck etc and how difficult they made them look.

And Kalou 🤣