Newcastle United 4 Chelsea 1

[xceleryx]

Been away all weekend so only just managed to get around to catching the match after avoiding the result. By far our worst performance of the season so far, in ways I'm also not surprised given it's on the back of an international break and Newcastle away can be a torn in our side at times. 

Don't think our attitude was right from the onset, this reflected in our performance for much of the match and continues to see us pick up stupid bookings that only serve to add additional pressure. I've said this before but Reece James shouldn't be our captain, the armband should've remained with Gallagher - someone that puts himself about more. 

There's obviously issues with this side and that's been the case before the season had even begun, which are only going to be improved by either investment, time, or both. 

You could spend days, if not weeks, picking part this sort of performance. At the end of the day though nothing has changed, I expect these sort of performances from time to time given the nature of the side. Gotta move on, turn the attitude around, and push forward. 

[McCreadie]

One bad day at the office and the knives are out yet again. So tedious and we have so few games to distract from the teeth-gnashing that it is excruciating. Be very careful what you wish for, because if you think we are attracting any better manager than the one we have, let alone relying on the board to actually  identify him, well…. good luck with that. Keep your powder dry until the end of the season and then review  is the only sensible option. 

[ROTG]

6 hours ago, McCreadie said:

One bad day at the office and the knives are out yet again. So tedious and we have so few games to distract from the teeth-gnashing that it is excruciating. Be very careful what you wish for, because if you think we are attracting any better manager than the one we have, let alone relying on the board to actually  identify him, well…. good luck with that. Keep your powder dry until the end of the season and then review  is the only sensible option. 

Agree 100%

Its not the coaches fault, it's the cards "squad" he been dealt.

Even the nobody coach cards he picked up from TT was miles better, shame the nobody coach didn't know how to play the cards

[ROTG]

12 hours ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

One thing I think is clear. Wonderful though he’s been - it’s time for Thiago Silva to move on. As in right now. 

Until Cucurella reappeared in the first team line up the team had conceded 4 goals, since Cucurella's return 17 goals conceded - Coincidence? 

[Rob B]

7 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Been away all weekend so only just managed to get around to catching the match after avoiding the result. By far our worst performance of the season so far, in ways I'm also not surprised given it's on the back of an international break and Newcastle away can be a torn in our side at times. 

Don't think our attitude was right from the onset, this reflected in our performance for much of the match and continues to see us pick up stupid bookings that only serve to add additional pressure. I've said this before but Reece James shouldn't be our captain, the armband should've remained with Gallagher - someone that puts himself about more. 

There's obviously issues with this side and that's been the case before the season had even begun, which are only going to be improved by either investment, time, or both. 

You could spend days, if not weeks, picking part this sort of performance. At the end of the day though nothing has changed, I expect these sort of performances from time to time given the nature of the side. Gotta move on, turn the attitude around, and push forward. 

Trouble with Gallagher being captain is that when Nkunku and Lavia return (and possibly even Chukwuemeka to a degree) his minutes could be severely lessened. 

And many will argue that he deserves to play based on performances (which he does) albeit with a depleted squad -  but no one in their right mind would have picked Gallagher for the captain at the start of the season.  Persuading the owners from selling him was a difficult enough task. 

[xceleryx]

19 minutes ago, Rob B said:

Trouble with Gallagher being captain is that when Nkunku and Lavia return (and possibly even Chukwuemeka to a degree) his minutes could be severely lessened. 

And many will argue that he deserves to play based on performances (which he does) albeit with a depleted squad -  but no one in their right mind would have picked Gallagher for the captain at the start of the season.  Persuading the owners from selling him was a difficult enough task. 

This is true and certainly a valid concern, but I do think there are ways around it. 

Nkunku walks into the side once fit enough to play regularly, while ideally he plays either just in behind or out on the left, he is capable of playing upfront. With Jackson showcasing he's not there as of yet, I'd slot Nkunku in upfront which negates the Gallagher issue. As for Lavia, he probably doesn't command a starting role any time soon and similar probably applies to Chukwumeka. 

But yeah, Gallagher probably wouldn't have been the pick for captain going into the season but focusing solely on his on pitch efforts he's the clear candidate if we're looking at a more club connected option. 

[Chelsea_Matt]

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

Until Cucurella reappeared in the first team line up the team had conceded 4 goals, since Cucurella's return 17 goals conceded - Coincidence? 

I don’t know, man. Cucurella had been playing fairly well. 

[Chelsea_Matt]

1 hour ago, Rob B said:

Trouble with Gallagher being captain is that when Nkunku and Lavia return (and possibly even Chukwuemeka to a degree) his minutes could be severely lessened. 

And many will argue that he deserves to play based on performances (which he does) albeit with a depleted squad -  but no one in their right mind would have picked Gallagher for the captain at the start of the season.  Persuading the owners from selling him was a difficult enough task. 

Yeah well that was a long time ago. Over the course of the season I think Gallagher more than deserves to start, even when Lavia and Nkunku come in. I don’t know if there’s going to be a change in formation when those two return, but Gallagher has imo been one of the very few bright spots in an absolutely dreadful season, which is turning out to be as bad as the last one.

[Max Fowler]

It's a bit embarrassing that Poch spoke about bringing in the lads for training yesterday when the club promised them a day off. Then Nico Jackson turning up in Villarreal grinning from ear to ear. Personally I don't think Poch bottled it but the club had already organized the day off and he couldn't do anything about it.

Makes us look stupid. The owners should have said - cancel the day off, the squad's performance didn't warrant it. Setting harsh punishments for standards slipping. Now it just looks like we're letting the players off the hook and it reflects badly on Poch. A bit of a mess really.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Max Fowler

[Mark Kelly]

4 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

 

Makes us look stupid. 

Makes Pochettino look like a coward. 

[Max Fowler]

9 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Makes Pochettino look like a coward. 

Precisely why it's a problem. Personally I think it is a club problem rather than a Poch problem, but perception becomes reality.

[east lower]

26 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

It's a bit embarrassing that Poch spoke about bringing in the lads for training yesterday when the club promised them a day off. Then Nico Jackson turning up in Villarreal grinning from ear to ear. Personally I don't think Poch bottled it but the club had already organized the day off and he couldn't do anything about it.

Makes us look stupid. The owners should have said - cancel the day off, the squad's performance didn't warrant it. Setting harsh punishments for standards slipping. Now it just looks like we're letting the players off the hook and it reflects badly on Poch. A bit of a mess really.

If Pep, Klopp,  Jose, Sir Alex or Wenger wanted the players in for an extra day, would their respective clubs have said anything other than "It's your call". 

It's basic discipline, and that's exactly what was lacking at the weekend and in a number of performances. Get the basics right. 

If, as coach you say they're in, then they are IN.

Weak, and the players will suss this. We need a hard-b*****d manager to get some discipline into this lot and quick like with the owners leaving it to him to make the calls as regards' the playing staff.

Edited November 27, 2023 by east lower

[Miguelito07]

Just to add - Players have two days off...

[east lower]

1 minute ago, Miguelito07 said:

Just to add - Players have two days off...

Another £50k - £100k on the payslips for them.

Nice work eh.

[Mark Kelly]

I'd have had them in, I'd have told them to be at the training ground at 04-30 hours Sunday and every fifteen minutes late would incur a £100k fine and then I would have strolled in at 12 eating a bag of chips told them they could all go and apologise for wasting their time like they had mine. 

[Miguelito07]

This result also debunks the theory that we play well against teams that come at us.

[east lower]

1 hour ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

Yeah well that was a long time ago. Over the course of the season I think Gallagher more than deserves to start, even when Lavia and Nkunku come in. I don’t know if there’s going to be a change in formation when those two return, but Gallagher has imo been one of the very few bright spots in an absolutely dreadful season, which is turning out to be as bad as the last one.

We're lauding Gallagher for his performances generally this season and properly so. But...................................just because he's worked hard and is competent. Again,  I didn't see the game in it's entirety, but the raido commentary said he should have scored at least once, maybe twice. Top players make game-changing actions and this is where Conor is coming up short and shows up our lack of game-changers in our squad.

I'm singling him out a bit, which is unfair as he's probably one that has exceeded expectations but from a lower base than others. He'll be the sacrifice when Nkunku is fit, unless the coach puts the latter in, in place of Jackson. The three of four of Nkunku, Jackson, Stirling and/or Mudryck looked good in pre-season - Let's see how brave our coach is when they're all  fit. Because, by Christ we need to see a few goals coming from a few more places. Danger is that playing three from those four may leave us short of numbers in midfield and we get overrun. 

The coach will go with two and have the wide player try and defend when we're defending, which means Stirling is less effective from an attacking perspective. he's dangerous when making short bursts into the box.

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by east lower

[Miguelito07]

I stopped watching the match at 2-1 as I had a feeling it would get ugly. Anyone who watched the match, how did Mudryk and Broja play when they came on?

[Max Fowler]

51 minutes ago, east lower said:

If Pep, Klopp,  Jose, Sir Alex or Wenger wanted the players in for an extra day, would their respective clubs have said anything other than "It's your call". 

It's basic discipline, and that's exactly what was lacking at the weekend and in a number of performances. Get the basics right. 

If, as coach you say they're in, then they are IN.

Weak, and the players will suss this. We need a hard-b*****d manager to get some discipline into this lot and quick like with the owners leaving it to him to make the calls as regards' the playing staff.

I think this culture is set by the club though. TT got sacked because he doesn't work in a "collaborative" atmosphere. That's what being in a "collaborative" atmosphere means. Working together rather than imposing a day off against what was previously arranged. 

The owners don't want a hard-bleeped manager - standards therefore slip and the players are not under enough pressure. Poch will come and go as will other managers. The culture of the club is what is most important and I think that's the problem here.

[Mark Kelly]

2 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I think this culture is set by the club though. TT got sacked because he doesn't work in a "collaborative" atmosphere. That's what being in a "collaborative" atmosphere means. Working together rather than imposing a day off against what was previously arranged. 

The owners don't want a hard-bleeped manager - standards therefore slip and the players are not under enough pressure. Poch will come and go as will other managers. The culture of the club is what is most important and I think that's the problem here.

I think all this negativity started with Silva refusing the Captains arm band as he wasn't the Captain , it's a really amazing feat to ditch a load of under-performing players , hire a load of "hungry" youngsters and keep the same negative attitude , you have to hand it to them really . 

[Mark Kelly]

52 minutes ago, Miguelito07 said:

This result also debunks the theory that we play well against teams that come at us.

I think we play well when we are set up to attack and the other side lets us . 

It's one of my bugbears with Pochettino , he holds us back , would rather scrape a 1-0 than risk a 4-4 as he's a coward and more importantly these players are utterly incapable of killing a game and shutting the opposition out , so why play to their strengths instead of playing to the oppositions? 

I suppose it could all go a bit "Big Ange" on him but blimey ,  he's scared of everyone.

[xceleryx]

2 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I think we play well when we are set up to attack and the other side lets us . 

It's one of my bugbears with Pochettino , he holds us back , would rather scrape a 1-0 than risk a 4-4 as he's a coward and more importantly these players are utterly incapable of killing a game and shutting the opposition out , so why play to their strengths instead of playing to the oppositions? 

I suppose it could all go a bit "Big Ange" on him but blimey ,  he's scared of everyone.

Well yeah, I mean it's easier to play against sides that don't get men behind the ball that's a given. The problem is that when we push the issue and open ourselves up we're neither clinical enough in attack, and we put more defensive pressure on ourselves. One mistake that results in a goal has the opportunity to bury us, so I can fully understand why Poch sets us up in a more pragmatic manner.

I don't have much of an issue with how Poch sets us up, it's often our execution and naivety that lets us down. And when you have a young side that's still learning and without much in the way of genuine leadership, there's not really those dressing room figures to keep everyone focused and accountable. The result of which is exactly what this performance turned out.

[Chelsea_Matt]

51 minutes ago, east lower said:

We're lauding Gallagher for his performances generally this season and properly so. But...................................just because he's worked hard and is competent. Again,  I didn't see the game in it's entirety, but the raido commentary said he should have scored at least once, maybe twice. Top players make game-changing actions and this is where Conor is coming up short and shows up our lack of game-changers in our squad.

I'm singling him out a bit, which is unfair as he's probably one that has exceeded expectations but from a lower base than others. He'll be the sacrifice when Nkunku is fit, unless the coach puts the latter in, in place of Jackson. The three of four of Nkunku, Jackson, Stirling and/or Mudryck looked good in pre-season - Let's see how brave our coach is when they're all  fit. Because, by Christ we need to see a few goals coming from a few more places. Danger is that playing three from those four may leave us short of numbers in midfield and we get overrun. 

The coach will go with two and have the wide player try and defend when we're defending, which means Stirling is less effective from an attacking perspective. he's dangerous when making short bursts into the box.

 

We also need someone who understands what playing for Chelsea actually means. And Conor is vital in that regard too. But it’s all moot. He will be dropped, will probably leave - and I wouldn’t blame him. 

[east lower]

9 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I think all this negativity started with Silva refusing the Captains arm band as he wasn't the Captain , it's a really amazing feat to ditch a load of under-performing players , hire a load of "hungry" youngsters and keep the same negative attitude , you have to hand it to them really . 

Assuming what you've said about Silva is true, I've just not read or heard that before - It's amazing how a set of people that are all about 'Inclusive' & 'collaborative' can disenfranchise a true professional so much so, that he acts like that.

I can deal with mediocrity, I can deal with relegation in isolation -  but when the owners are spouting stuff such as we are going to become this major force in European Football challenge for titles, elite this and that yada, yada , yada. Spending money at the rate and volume they have and turned us into also rans, I really struggle.

If they have a strategy, I for one cannot see where it's leading us to, apart from up s**t-creek ultimately.

 

[Chelsea_Matt]

1 hour ago, east lower said:

If Pep, Klopp,  Jose, Sir Alex or Wenger wanted the players in for an extra day, would their respective clubs have said anything other than "It's your call". 

It's basic discipline, and that's exactly what was lacking at the weekend and in a number of performances. Get the basics right. 

If, as coach you say they're in, then they are IN.

Weak, and the players will suss this. We need a hard-b*****d manager to get some discipline into this lot and quick like with the owners leaving it to him to make the calls as regards' the playing staff.

Well then it’s Simeone, Tommy Tee….or Jose! I’m going to get pelted but IF Poch doesn’t work out…..I’d go for Klopp.