Newcastle United 4 Chelsea 1

[ROTG]

2 hours ago, east lower said:

Jose anyone (ducks head and runs for cover)? 

Would be his little pony’s mk2 and would take him one season for a summer to punt the clowns and bring in the winners 

[chara]

OK..the "Day Off" v "Extra Training" debate.

Regardless of the "hard punishment" coach words and the apparent Corporate Day Off I just think the idea of a disciplinary/hard training session the day after any hard game , and they all are, is so counter productive in many ways,

Small knocks aren't given time to heal the physical/mental comedown is missed, Angry words are not dissipated into common sense and the whole "naughty boys" scenario is lapped up and gleefully highlighted by the media.

Nothing positive will come out of such a session and a resentment can escalate.

Far better but still too soon would be a get together around a video and game analysis open forum but still too early to my mind.

Reeks of the "Do Something.Anything" response.

Bad game performance at a difficult ground made worse by unrealistic expectations,

I am not defending or attacking what transpired after the game just pointing out that returning from a long away game and then expecting players and all coaching staff to be in the right frame of mind for anything positive to emerge is ,,to my mind..insanity.

Observations made by all here have been relevant, as always, but to my simple mind getting back on the training ground at the right time and addressing issues calmly beats any hurried next day fiasco.

And..allowing the media an excuse to mock Chelsea is a sickening thing for me,

[Mark Kelly]

3 minutes ago, chara said:

 

And..allowing the media an excuse to mock Chelsea is a sickening thing for me,

Funnily enough they're doing exactly that over the threat and lack of follow through . 

[Dwmh]

4 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

I think all this negativity started with Silva refusing the Captains arm band as he wasn't the Captain , it's a really amazing feat to ditch a load of under-performing players , hire a load of "hungry" youngsters and keep the same negative attitude , you have to hand it to them really . 

3 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

Someone was injured probably Reece and he handed the armband to Silva who refused it , presumably because his nose was put out (I could well be doing him a great disservice ) 

Sort of but as I recall the vice captain was on the pitch (Chilwell?) and Silva just didn't want to be carrying the armband to the far side and be used as messenger boy.  Senior pro, not captain is fine for him I reckon.  Fetcher and carrier no thanks.

3 hours ago, xceleryx said:

In fairness the culture of the club begun shifting years ago, we just had a more experienced side and a few pieces that had that old school mentality to keep thing together. 

That's no longer the case and we've got a new generation both on and off the pitch, which is hindered further by the lack of genuine leaders within the side itself to help guide the younger heads that don't have the senior football behind them. 

So it is only just over 2 seasons since we won the CL.  The next season we were better in the Prem, up a place and 7 ponts to 3rd and 74 points.  74 points may not be 100 points but if you want to reach 100 points it is a pretty good place to start from.
So no I don't see the culture changing until after RA left and after the Creamcakes arrived.

 

3 hours ago, xceleryx said:

I can't help but feel there's been a disconnect between what ownership have said they want the club to become, and us fans maybe expecting that to be immediately put in place. In reality, we've gone with a hard reset and while we have spent a large amount of money it's largely been invested into what will hopefully be future rewards, not necessarily present day ones. 

Not that I think they'll be satisfied with where we stand right now, but I imagine it's not something that they completely unexpected either. 

The disconnect is between the direction the ownership have pointed to (North) and the direction we have taken (South).  There is no valley to cross here, every step down is a step backwards and makes reaching the target harder.

3 hours ago, east lower said:

My guess is that they're getting twitchy right now, if for no other reason than future revenue.

I think they are twitchy because the investors at Clearlake are screaming "you don't know what you are doing, get out of Football as an investment".
US sport is pretty much a guaranteed profit franchise.  European sport isn't.

 

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

Would be his little pony’s mk2 and would take him one season for a summer to punt the clowns and bring in the winners 

found as I am of 13/14 as a truly transformational year (when he punted a hell of a lot of famous names like Lampard, Cole, Cech), I'm quite sure JM would be just horrified at the way the club is run and jump for an exit as soon as he could.  Or rather just never come here because there will always be other offeres for him.

Poch is here because he was never a big success anywhere but because he had played at PSG he got the gig there.  He underwhlem  again and had a year out of football.  This left him as not a big name, just the only middling name willing to take the job (other than perhaps Frank).

[Dwmh]

10 minutes ago, chara said:

Regardless of the "hard punishment" coach words and the apparent Corporate Day Off I just think the idea of a disciplinary/hard training session the day after any hard game , and they all are, is so counter productive in many ways,

100% agree - the cowardice was not in failing to deal with the players properly.
The cowardice was implying to the media he was a tough boss who knew what to do, but actually not having a clue.

[east lower]

4 hours ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

The CL ship sailed two months ago. May as well stay with Poch now unless they think we’re going to get relegated. 

I'm getting that weird sense of deja-vu, where might we have heard that one before.  😉

[east lower]

4 hours ago, xceleryx said:

I can't help but feel there's been a disconnect between what ownership have said they want the club to become, and us fans maybe expecting that to be immediately put in place. In reality, we've gone with a hard reset and while we have spent a large amount of money it's largely been invested into what will hopefully be future rewards, not necessarily present day ones. 

Not that I think they'll be satisfied with where we stand right now, but I imagine it's not something that they completely unexpected either. 

What they wanted, what they expected and what they've got may well be different things, but I'd guess that where we are is not where they predicted or sold. I do not think that they have the luxury of 5 years to become this highly successful cash/profit producing business. Heck, Man City's turnover last season was £718m and they made £80m, they not going to be much more successful than that from football operations, sponsors maybe and we are miles away from that. The investors will want a ROI very soon and frankly they are not getting it or look like getting it. Charity they are not.

Personally I feel that when we hear 'long-term project' come from  TB/BE, they are trying to buy themselves time from investor pressure. Something will give in the next 12 months and for us fans I  do not think it will be positive, unless there is a massive change in direction and we start recruiting some proven people from winning clubs - not your Brighton's where mid-table is par and above that is excellence. The world the investors come from and the sums invested means that their world does not work that way. 

[Chelsea_Matt]

20 minutes ago, east lower said:

What they wanted, what they expected and what they've got may well be different things, but I'd guess that where we are is not where they predicted or sold. I do not think that they have the luxury of 5 years to become this highly successful cash/profit producing business. Heck, Man City's turnover last season was £718m and they made £80m, they not going to be much more successful than that from football operations, sponsors maybe and we are miles away from that. The investors will want a ROI very soon and frankly they are not getting it or look like getting it. Charity they are not.

Personally I feel that when we hear 'long-term project' come from  TB/BE, they are trying to buy themselves time from investor pressure. Something will give in the next 12 months and for us fans I  do not think it will be positive, unless there is a massive change in direction and we start recruiting some proven people from winning clubs - not your Brighton's where mid-table is par and above that is excellence. The world the investors come from and the sums invested means that their world does not work that way. 

They’re in too deep to pull their money, IMO. But I do agree - I reckon red alerts are flashing, but changing manager won’t alter that. 

[blueboy1905]

2 hours ago, chara said:

OK..the "Day Off" v "Extra Training" debate.

Regardless of the "hard punishment" coach words and the apparent Corporate Day Off I just think the idea of a disciplinary/hard training session the day after any hard game , and they all are, is so counter productive in many ways,

Small knocks aren't given time to heal the physical/mental comedown is missed, Angry words are not dissipated into common sense and the whole "naughty boys" scenario is lapped up and gleefully highlighted by the media.

Nothing positive will come out of such a session and a resentment can escalate.

Far better but still too soon would be a get together around a video and game analysis open forum but still too early to my mind.

Reeks of the "Do Something.Anything" response.

Bad game performance at a difficult ground made worse by unrealistic expectations,

I am not defending or attacking what transpired after the game just pointing out that returning from a long away game and then expecting players and all coaching staff to be in the right frame of mind for anything positive to emerge is ,,to my mind..insanity.

Observations made by all here have been relevant, as always, but to my simple mind getting back on the training ground at the right time and addressing issues calmly beats any hurried next day fiasco.

And..allowing the media an excuse to mock Chelsea is a sickening thing for me,

Fair enough, but what about tomorrow which is also a 'Day Off' ? Maybe some extra defensive drills, shooting at goal and just general tactics that may win us a game.

[Max Fowler]

20 minutes ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

They’re in too deep to pull their money, IMO. But I do agree - I reckon red alerts are flashing, but changing manager won’t alter that. 

Important to distinguish between investors and owners Matt. The investors could easily look at Boehly and co. and think - these guys don't have a monkeys. Out the door you go. Not saying it's likely - but Boehly is not RA.

[chara]

Quick response,,,,the "Owners" are exactly that...the main issue for me is the strength..or lack of it..in "Middle Management".I don't know the criteria for the appointments at that level..the people who seem to be making vital decisions  but without actually putting their names, or accepting responsibility, to any actions.

There was a deal of "observations" at one time as how it needed "Football" people at the sharp end but as I asked earlier...who recommended to the Boss the eventual "Football" people?

The obvious lack on the field of experienced senior (middle management) players to steady any game is a glaring gap..I don't think either James or Conor are true Captain material,,,which isn't to put down leadership by example but it needs more than that to wear the armband...to state the obvious yet again..JT is the perfect example...unfortunately like most top leaders not readily available...leaders by example are not Captains....

[chara]

24 minutes ago, blueboy1905 said:

Fair enough, but what about tomorrow which is also a 'Day Off' ? Maybe some extra defensive drills, shooting at goal and just general tactics that may win us a game.

I agree,,, but with no midweek fixture pile up there is no reason to cram in "extra" days and although your point is valid it always comes down to how effective a training session is rather than how many..( imho.Cucu could train forever and still get the situation wrong as he did Saturday!)

At times Chelsea break or attack and it looks amazing...but in spurts ..Citeh..for example do it for 90 minutes...and then score,,...Chelsea?

Edited November 27, 2023 by chara

[Chelsea_Matt]

10 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Important to distinguish between investors and owners Matt. The investors could easily look at Boehly and co. and think - these guys don't have a monkeys. Out the door you go. Not saying it's likely - but Boehly is not RA.

That isn’t what I’m saying. At all. I was referring to the investors - and that they’re in too deep to get out of it now without taking huge losses. They’ll give it one more year I reckon before deciding it may be worth a short-term hit. 🫡👀

[Mark Kelly]

27 minutes ago, blueboy1905 said:

Fair enough, but what about tomorrow which is also a 'Day Off' ? Maybe some extra defensive drills, shooting at goal and just general tactics that may win us a game.

Apparently, if it's nice they're having a picnic. 

[Ham]

Forgot to say but how stupid of Reece to get those cards whilst Gusto is injured.  Please God he's back by the weekend. 

[chara]

9 minutes ago, Ham said:

Forgot to say but how stupid of Reece to get those cards whilst Gusto is injured.  Please God he's back by the weekend. 

Absolutely Ham....but par for the course don't you think?..... imagine what a real Captain like Jt would have said to RJ in the dressing room!

Edited November 27, 2023 by chara

[Mark Kelly]

17 minutes ago, Ham said:

Forgot to say but how stupid of Reece to get those cards whilst Gusto is injured.  Please God he's back by the weekend. 

 

7 minutes ago, chara said:

Absolutely Ham....but par for the course don't you think?..... imagine what a real Captain like Jt would have said to RJ in the dressing room!

Don't worry guys, he apologised on Instagram so all is forgiven. 

[Miguelito07]

20 minutes ago, Ham said:

Forgot to say but how stupid of Reece to get those cards whilst Gusto is injured.  Please God he's back by the weekend. 

Also, why would you take a free-kick in the exactly the same position as the one Sterling  scored from?!

[Rob B]

32 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Important to distinguish between investors and owners Matt. The investors could easily look at Boehly and co. and think - these guys don't have a monkeys. Out the door you go. Not saying it's likely - but Boehly is not RA.

Boehly is an investor, therefore he does own a % of the club.   He may not fully own it in the same way that RA did, but he is one of only three shareholders on paper and did invest a substantial amount of his own wealth. 

He could get booted as Chairman I suppose, but don't think this is Todd Boehly going off and executing his own football strategy.  These things are discussed / agreed formally in board meetings so everyone will be on board with the direction of travel.   Besides, if common reports are to be believed, it's actually Behdad Eghbali that makes the key decisions. 

For me, if there is to be a scapegoat for what is happening on the pitch, it will be the Sporting Directors or Manager (or both) 

[Dwmh]

20 minutes ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

That isn’t what I’m saying. At all. I was referring to the investors - and that they’re in too deep to get out of it now without taking huge losses. They’ll give it one more year I reckon before deciding it may be worth a short-term hit. 🫡👀

It is high risk Private equity - which is v similar to venture capital only bigger projects.
They don't aim to beat the market by 1%.  They take big risks and bite big bullets and take big haircuts when necessary.

Recent Clearlake funds have shown 30 & 40% IRR returns over 5 years.  30% is equivalent of turning $1billion into $3.7 billion in 5 years.  You can only do that by taking big risks and  accepting quite a few hits.  Currently Clearlake is invested in 27 projects,

They take huge losses on individual projects regularly.  It'll be massive on this one.
And of course the more they lose, the less feasible it is for anyone to pay them half the purchase price because the remaining CFC won't have any spending options left.

 

[chara]

12 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

 

Don't worry guys, he apologised on Instagram so all is forgiven. 

Ah,,that's ok then,

[Dwmh]

5 minutes ago, Miguelito07 said:

Also, why would you take a free-kick in the exactly the same position as the one Sterling  scored from?!

Because they spent 2 weeks together, unbothered by Woodgate or Poch, just practicing free kicks.  One each - they are training pals.

[east lower]

24 minutes ago, chara said:

Absolutely Ham....but par for the course don't you think?..... imagine what a real Captain like Jt would have said to RJ in the dressing room!

I wonder what the remaining 10 said to JT in the Camp Nou in 2012!

Wisey gave him a tongue lashing for driving to training in an XR3 (sporty Ford Escort) when he’d played a couple of first team games. 
 

Point being there’s not many left who take that type of approach.

[chara]

6 minutes ago, east lower said:

I wonder what the remaining 10 said to JT in the Camp Nou in 2012!

Wisey gave him a tongue lashing for driving to training in an XR3 (sporty Ford Escort) when he’d played a couple of first team games. 
 

Point being there’s not many left who take that type of approach.

Very modest "war story"...made a modest last minute jump into a !st team game...after 5 minutes the Captain jumped all over me and frightened the life out of, me,, his forceful request for me to "Use a bit of tongue!" stayed with me all the days I played!

[east lower]

1 hour ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

They’re in too deep to pull their money, IMO. But I do agree - I reckon red alerts are flashing, but changing manager won’t alter that. 

The way that I understand these investors work, is that we’ll be one in a portfolio of investments. Just like the way a good pension works, spreading risk across a number of markets, bonds and funds.

We’ll just be one of those and if they believe that they are throwing good money after bad, they’ll act. Also don’t forget they are sitting on two land banks that are worth 100’s of millions, if not billions.