Chelsea 3 Brighton & Hove Albion 2

[Ham]

7 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

 

Red all day long.  The push was even earlier and so Mudryk had plenty of space and time.  This was phase 3 of the foul by Milner. 

[paulw66]

7 minutes ago, Ham said:

Red all day long.  The push was even earlier and so Mudryk had plenty of space and time.  This was phase 3 of the foul by Milner. 

Zero effort to play the ball.

[Backbiter]

27 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

 

That guy with his two feet off the ground grabbing Mudryk from behind to deny him a goalscoring opportunity - that's just a 'coming together'.

[paulw66]

3 minutes ago, Backbiter said:

That guy with his two feet off the ground grabbing Mudryk from behind to deny him a goalscoring opportunity - that's just a 'coming together'.

It is according to Craig Burley

[Backbiter]

Here's a still of this 'coming together'

[Mark Kelly]

3 minutes ago, Backbiter said:

Here's a still of this 'coming together'

It's Milner , fouling is his default setting , that's all he does.

[Backbiter]

https://www.skysports.com/football/chelsea-vs-brighton-and-hove-albion/482725

According to this, Caicedo didn't get booked, so all talk about being lucky to avoid a second yellow is not really relevant.

[Max Fowler]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

So , what do you think about the fact that for the last two penalties we have been awarded neither were given by the on field referee.

If Pawson had been left to his own devices Brighton win that game 2-3 as we're denied a penalty (watch it from behind it was a braindead challenge as the keeper was favourite to get it anyway) and Brighton awarded a penalty for a ball that hit Colwill in the face 

Personally , I'm going to keep highlighting it as it doesn't "even itself out over a season" like they'd have you believe and furthermore I think Pochettino should be making more of it like Klopp et al do. 

As I said previously , it's a difficult job being a referee , particularly if you're a fucking idiot with bias whether that's unconscious (it isn't) or not. 

Lets get them to officiate the games to the laws instead of managing it to the narrative set down by the league and Sky and maybe there won't be so much opprobrium when they do cock it up .  

I don't care if penalties are awarded by on-field referees or VAR. All I know is there is no great conspiracy against Chelsea and again I repeat - there is no way we have had particularly bad luck or particular bias against us this season. No way. Yes, there are crap decisions and VAR is a bit of a mess at the moment but frankly I can barely remember a game where refereeing decisions have cost us dearly. The story of our season is a problem of our own making and noone else's. 

[Sciatika]

35 minutes ago, Backbiter said:

https://www.skysports.com/football/chelsea-vs-brighton-and-hove-albion/482725

According to this, Caicedo didn't get booked, so all talk about being lucky to avoid a second yellow is not really relevant.

You may be right. I think they wrote it up as a booking against Badiashile on 52m rather than Caicedo. The booking was not for the tackle by Caicedo on GIlmour but for the reaction, so maybe that's right. Premier League and BBC also say the booking was Badiashile. I looked at the video and Caicedo was definitely questioning the foul but I could not see if Badiashile was, as well. Maybe he said something.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Sciatika

[Backbiter]

1 minute ago, Sciatika said:

You may be right. I think they wrote it up as a booking against Badiashile on 52m rather than Caicedo. The booking was not for the tackle by Caicedo on GIlmour but for the reaction, so maybe that's right. Premier League and BBC also say the booking was Badiashile. I looked at the video and Caicedo was definitely questioning the foul but I could not see if Badiashile was, as well. Maybe he said something.

Another example of noone knowing what the hell the ref was doing.

[Ham]

55 minutes ago, Backbiter said:

Here's a still of this 'coming together'

There were a couple of other parts to the foul before this. 

28 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I don't care if penalties are awarded by on-field referees or VAR. All I know is there is no great conspiracy against Chelsea and again I repeat - there is no way we have had particularly bad luck or particular bias against us this season. No way. Yes, there are crap decisions and VAR is a bit of a mess at the moment but frankly I can barely remember a game where refereeing decisions have cost us dearly. The story of our season is a problem of our own making and noone else's. 

You might be right about us not getting any more poor decisions THIS SEASON but that's not the point. 

We've been shafted for years beforehand though. 

[Mark Kelly]

24 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I don't care if penalties are awarded by on-field referees or VAR. All I know is there is no great conspiracy against Chelsea and again I repeat - there is no way we have had particularly bad luck or particular bias against us this season. No way. Yes, there are crap decisions and VAR is a bit of a mess at the moment but frankly I can barely remember a game where refereeing decisions have cost us dearly. The story of our season is a problem of our own making and noone else's. 

I'm not just talking about this season , it's been absolute years since our games were refereed fairly .

If we're away at a tight ground with a partisan atmosphere the PGMOL ensure we get the weakest ref available 

if we're at home they give us the picky over officious referee who ensures our rhythm is interrupted and does the away sides job for them . 

The story of our season is exactly what we can expect trying to gel countless new players together with a cowardly coach at the helm 

We on the other hand continue to be screwed over by the officials which began when Mourinho called coward in chief Mike Riley out for almost killing Petr Cech with his cowardice , it's revenge , orchestrated by Riley who instead of being sacked was promoted to the head of the PGMOL and has taken every opportunity possible to ruin our aspirations ever since 

We've had two referees who on retirement have come out and admitted to officiating our games poorly on purpose , why you think this makes me a conspiracy theorist is beyond me. 

[thevelourfog]

2 hours ago, east lower said:

Said coach has made said player Captain of Chelsea Football Club (in the absence of his chosen Captain, who by the way has just been sent off for two needless bookings, in the previous game). Said player who has a past record of being sent off for two yellows before half-time  in a game for us, I'd say then yes, the coach should bear his own largish share of the responsibility, including doing his job which other coaches undertake and own it.

In mitigation for Gallagher and Pochettino, the exact job he does and has received a lot of praise for here (fairly and rightly so, imo) is relentlessly pressing from high, transitional positions. It is a very high risk, high reward role to play and it is inevitably going to come with bookings. You might make the argument he has to change what he is doing once he gets a booking, but the truth is a) he doesn't really do much else tbh and b) in a percentages sense, refs will usually let booked players get away with fouls they would dish out first yellows for. 

The tackle on Gilmour was daft, but most players get away with it most of the time, and if we're going to enjoy some of the fruits of Gallagher's labour, we'll have to tolerate the others.

[Max Fowler]

1 minute ago, Ham said:

You might be right about us not getting any more poor decisions THIS SEASON but that's not the point. 

We've been shafted for years beforehand though. 

Every team thinks they have been shafted Ham. Arsenal fans are complaining, Liverpool fans are complaining. Now City fans, Wolves fans, etc. etc. etc. 

There's some humility in just saying - the refs are doing their best and sometimes things won't go our way. 

Okay we need better refs but there's a big consipiracy? Please.

[My Blood Is Blue]

Genuinely shocked by the amount of people trying to claim the penalty we won was not a penalty. We see some harsh decisions and we see some decisions you can question, but this simply is not one of those. The main point for me is that Milner at no point makes any attempt to play the ball, he entirely plays the player, using both hands to pull him over and then proceeds to take out his legs as well. I haven't watched MOTD, but I'm presuming they are arguing against it being given as a foul, much like the co-commentator was during the match. Absolute bonkers!

[east lower]

2 hours ago, paulw66 said:

Personal responsibility.

You're on a yellow, don't make a rash challenge, especially on the halfway line

Agreed, player should take some responsibility.

So should the coach - he could see what we all saw, and that was Gallagher running around like a dervish with the Brighton fans goading him (played for Palace) and him not taking a breath. If ever there was a time where the old Gary Linaker "have a word" statement was true it was yesterday.

10 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

It is a very high risk, high reward role to play and it is inevitably going to come with bookings. You might make the argument he has to change what he is doing once he gets a booking, but the truth is a) he doesn't really do much else tbh and b) in a percentages sense, refs will usually let booked players get away with fouls they would dish out first yellows for. 

The tackle on Gilmour was daft, but most players get away with it most of the time, and if we're going to enjoy some of the fruits of Gallagher's labour, we'll have to tolerate the others.

Then, if he doesn't do much else then it's time for him to be hooked or the coach has to  take the lead - They're professional footballers and generally do as they are instructed to do so. If Gallagher is determined to be the one of the three that is doing the dog-work then it's up to the coach to say No - you play in Enzo's/Moises and swap.  The ref at that stage let Gallagher and a few others away with some things that other ref's would have had people in the book for, but he'd turned and was starting to hand out cards. 

The coach did it at Tottenham for Colwill and rightly so, he should have done it yesterday also or for what was 5 minutes of time swapped roles. We'd just conceded to compound matters.

An Gallagher should have known better.

 

[Dwmh]

31 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I'm not just talking about this season , it's been absolute years since our games were refereed fairly .

 

As far as I am concerned it all stopped about 2016 just prior to Conte arriving and immediately after the disgrace that was the Clattenberg Spurs game where players could have been seriously injured because of a reckless ref.

At that point I was as or more convinced of ref cheating targeted at us as anyone on the old site.
Not since when most have dropped the topic as no longer irrelevant.



The other point is to just recall just how bad a decision had to be pre-VAR to be called contentious.  Games were chock-a-block full of big calls that could have gone either way.  Now there are half a dozen per Prem weekend but they take up more space in the media (in part because TV wants to prove that TV offers the definitive view.

[Max Fowler]

35 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

We on the other hand continue to be screwed over by the officials which began when Mourinho called coward in chief Mike Riley out for almost killing Petr Cech with his cowardice , it's revenge , orchestrated by Riley who instead of being sacked was promoted to the head of the PGMOL and has taken every opportunity possible to ruin our aspirations ever since 

We've had two referees who on retirement have come out and admitted to officiating our games poorly on purpose , why you think this makes me a conspiracy theorist is beyond me. 

If you don't think the above makes you sound like a conspiracy theorist Mark, then maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't believe referees hold personal vendettas - I believe they just are trying to do a good job and often make mistakes.

I am not sure who the second ref is but Mike Dean admitted to making a terrible mistake but he didn't say he hurt Chelsea on purpose. Frankly, he shouldn't have been so open but in some ways I appreciate his honesty. 

He admitted he made a "pathetic" call and wasn't cut out to do VAR. He didn't try to make Chelsea lose - he tried to make life easier for his mate which isn't professional but is also somehow understandable.

[My Blood Is Blue]

19 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Genuinely shocked by the amount of people trying to claim the penalty we won was not a penalty. We see some harsh decisions and we see some decisions you can question, but this simply is not one of those. The main point for me is that Milner at no point makes any attempt to play the ball, he entirely plays the player, using both hands to pull him over and then proceeds to take out his legs as well. I haven't watched MOTD, but I'm presuming they are arguing against it being given as a foul, much like the co-commentator was during the match. Absolute bonkers!

I just watched it, as expected they're trying to claim it's not a penalty and not enough in it for VAR to intervene... which is an absolute joke. We see many more poor decisions in matches every week than this one. This isn't even a poor decision, it's a good use of VAR.

[chrisb]

Dermot Gallagher says it was a pen and a good intervention by VAR. 

Case closed.

[Max Fowler]

7 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

I just watched it, as expected they're trying to claim it's not a penalty and not enough in it for VAR to intervene... which is an absolute joke. We see many more poor decisions in matches every week than this one. This isn't even a poor decision, it's a good use of VAR.

For me the mitigating factors are - Mudryk was hardly in control of the ball and it wasn't clear whether the keeper would have got there in time, shoulder from Milner seemed fine but then the tangle of legs was the problem. Then there is the "clear and obvious error" to bring in... To me it was a penalty but again, to suggest it was an absolute stonewall pen is a bit much for me.

[Ham]

6 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

For me the mitigating factors are - Mudryk was hardly in control of the ball and it wasn't clear whether the keeper would have got there in time, shoulder from Milner seemed fine but then the tangle of legs was the problem. Then there is the "clear and obvious error" to bring in... To me it was a penalty but again, to suggest it was an absolute stonewall pen is a bit much for me.

Your anti Mudryk agenda is so strong that you're making stuff up Max. 

[Max Fowler]

24 minutes ago, Ham said:

Your anti Mudryk agenda is so strong that you're making stuff up Max. 

I admit I am absolutely sick of Dudley "Dudders" Dudryk but that's by the by.

I would rather we were talking about his performance than the penalty.

So, what did we all think?

[paulw66]

1 hour ago, chrisb said:

Dermot Gallagher says it was a pen and a good intervention by VAR. 

Case closed.

So did De Zerbi, which speaks volumes

52 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Mudryk was hardly in control of the ball and it wasn't clear whether the keeper would have got there in time, 

whether or not I agree with those things (I don't) they are also irrelevant. 

You can't trip people up just because they don't have the ball. 

52 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

 To me it was a penalty

So, what's your point? 

It was a penalty. The correct decision was made. 

[paulw66]

2 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

You might make the argument he has to change what he is doing once he gets a booking,

Well, yes, especially 2 minutes before half time, on the halfway line when there is no danger.

2 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

 in a percentages sense, refs will usually let booked players get away with fouls they would dish out first yellows for. 

 

That's an even more high risk strategy than the tackling itself; if you're just on a wing and a prayer that the ref wont book you a second time. 

Edit - the second yellow was as clear cut a yellow as you'll ever see. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by paulw66