Chelsea 3 Brighton & Hove Albion 2

[Mark Kelly]

10 minutes ago, Bison said:

Maybe Poch is but Mudryk isn't listening?

It's pretty obvious watching Mudryk that he foolishly believes he's a Hazard type of player. Somebody with that type of pace should be wide, trying to isolate his defender 1v1 . But he instead wants the ball inside, wants to dribble between players and play cute balls down the side for the CF. Nobody wants or needs that from him but it's what he wants to do 95% of the time.

Maybe that's what Poch is telling him to do?

It works both ways .

[Bison]

12 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Maybe that's what Poch is telling him to do?

It works both ways .

Very much doubt a manager would be telling a player to do something they're not good at as opposed to utilising the one and only thing they have going for them.

Mudryk has pace to burn and not much else. If he can't stretch opponents and get to the the byline 10x a game there is literally no use for him.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Bison

[Mark Kelly]

20 minutes ago, Bison said:

Very much doubt a manager would be telling a player to do something they're not good at as opposed to utilising the one and only thing they have going for them.

Mudryk has pace to burn and not much else. If he can't stretch opponents and get to the the byline 10x a game there is literally no use for him.

You/re talking about the man who's been playing a centre half as a left back half the time 

[thevelourfog]

2 hours ago, paulw66 said:

but the two yellows were 100% yellows every day of the week, and twice on Sunday

Erm, yeah. I agree. Not all fouls deserving bookings get them. That's not hard or controversial.

[Dwmh]

59 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Maybe that's what Poch is telling him to do?

It works both ways .

it isn't Mudryk, it is the other 10 in the team.
that is why he is better when starting - the other 10 train the week knowing what to expect out left.

[Ham]

6 hours ago, ROTG said:

Is he more effective than Stirling on the left?

You could say least try to spell his name correctly. He's been here long enough.

6 hours ago, kev61 said:

"Pay attention".....I like your style!.Come clean old fella you just like to wind people up.I put my hand up I like to do it too!.

Shocker.

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, Ham said:

You could say least try to spell his name correctly. He's been here long enough.

Correcto. 
unfortunately most responses are done on the move and I am at the hand of apple a their spellchecker which seems to be set to Scottish. 😀

[chara]

7 hours ago, ROTG said:

I thought the teams performance would be the primary concern

How were they turning points the REF/VAR got them both right, therefore neither influenced the game or result

The two goals were only new tactic from 5 days on the training ground. As mentioned by others I doubt ManUre, Everton will lbe so generous on the back post.

I assume  you are referring to the discipline or sending off

I would have thought there we still more question than answers in the over team and another poor performance with and without 11 players. 

 

ROTG Saying BFN

OK..wasn't arguing your comments, 

For me being able to rumble on about games and Chelsea in general is a great pleasure being so far away and although today is a glorious Mountain Morning the elements are a bit harsh this time of year and being able to bandy about Chelsea thoughts is a great relief at times!

Nuff said,,,,always read your views with interest,,and everyone's.

The facility available here is priceless...back in the day the match was discussed with your mates going home but generally apart from the tribal "bickering" at work not a lot of opportunity for serious analysis or discussion with a wide band of viewpoints..again,,for me ..PRICELESS.

[NoblyBobly]

On 04/12/2023 at 15:31, Max Fowler said:

Every team thinks they have been shafted Ham. Arsenal fans are complaining, Liverpool fans are complaining. Now City fans, Wolves fans, etc. etc. etc. 

There's some humility in just saying - the refs are doing their best and sometimes things won't go our way. 

Okay we need better refs but there's a big consipiracy? Please.

It’s got less over the years but Can you point to another team who the ref has admitted shafting in a book?  Has any other team had their coach called the “enemy of football” by an official footballing body? 
Look , of course other teams moan about refs, it just par for the course.  And of course we get decisions go our way. That would be too bizarre if we didn’t, but with us , sometimes the decision is so inexplicable that the person making it has to resign . The Cucca hair pull was one of those. I honestly believe that now, they don’t even know they’re doing it, it’s just got into their DNA. 
As for conspiracies. The difference between conspiracies and the truth is usually about 6 months. I can give you multiple examples…, but back to us.

Now you answer this honestly Max. In Mourinhos first spell with us , do you think he would  in ANY circumstances been allowed to lift the CL cup above his head ? And that incredible bias against us last several seasons after he left. Remember ref Overbro? Turns out UEFA sat him down before the game and told him to watch out for diving. They showed a series of clips of almost exclusively Chelsea players going to ground too easily. You see that’s subtle. That’s not asking a ref to cheat, that is putting subliminal messages in his head. 
 “ We don’t want this club getting any decisions”. 
Im afraid I don’t believe the world is an honest place…I believe it can be incredibly corrupt and filled with people feathering their own nests…and I don’t believe football is immune that corruptness. I’ve often hoped it was my imagination but the reality punches me in the face far too often. 

 

[xceleryx]

13 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Largely for my own amusement and to be a bit provocative. I believe there is a failure to honestly critique his performances and engage with arguments, both here on social media - so I am trying a different tack. After all, other than discussing his positioning and whether or not he won a penalty, I haven't heard anyone perhaps other than @ROTG give an honest assessment of how he is playing. I support the lad but we need to talk about him. He is really not that young Celery.

There's nothing wrong with constructively critiquing our players, I'm all for it and have done so myself. Going and creating little names like "Dudryk" however arguably work against what you're trying to achieve. Why would anyone want to engage in discussion when there's such a childish tone being set from the onset? 

Either way, more than happy to discuss if it's going to be done properly.

[xceleryx]

12 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

You/re talking about the man who's been playing a centre half as a left back half the time 

Mourinho? Arteta? Pep? Sir Alex?

[Max Fowler]

8 hours ago, xceleryx said:

There's nothing wrong with constructively critiquing our players, I'm all for it and have done so myself. Going and creating little names like "Dudryk" however arguably work against what you're trying to achieve. Why would anyone want to engage in discussion when there's such a childish tone being set from the onset? 

Either way, more than happy to discuss if it's going to be done properly.

Okay Celery, you've made your point. But now you are the one avoiding the actual arguments because as usual, you say you are open to criticising the owners and their players but actually we're likely to get some PR answer about how our Ukrainian winger is slowly improving and will be a title winning player by the year 2045.

Let's be honest - he wasn't great at the weekend and against a more difficult side he is going to get found out again.

[Max Fowler]

9 hours ago, NoblyBobly said:

It’s got less over the years but Can you point to another team who the ref has admitted shafting in a book?  Has any other team had their coach called the “enemy of football” by an official footballing body? 
Look , of course other teams moan about refs, it just par for the course.  And of course we get decisions go our way. That would be too bizarre if we didn’t, but with us , sometimes the decision is so inexplicable that the person making it has to resign . The Cucca hair pull was one of those. I honestly believe that now, they don’t even know they’re doing it, it’s just got into their DNA. 
As for conspiracies. The difference between conspiracies and the truth is usually about 6 months. I can give you multiple examples…, but back to us.

Now you answer this honestly Max. In Mourinhos first spell with us , do you think he would  in ANY circumstances been allowed to lift the CL cup above his head ? And that incredible bias against us last several seasons after he left. Remember ref Overbro? Turns out UEFA sat him down before the game and told him to watch out for diving. They showed a series of clips of almost exclusively Chelsea players going to ground too easily. You see that’s subtle. That’s not asking a ref to cheat, that is putting subliminal messages in his head. 
 “ We don’t want this club getting any decisions”. 
Im afraid I don’t believe the world is an honest place…I believe it can be incredibly corrupt and filled with people feathering their own nests…and I don’t believe football is immune that corruptness. I’ve often hoped it was my imagination but the reality punches me in the face far too often. 

Come on Bobbly. He was called "the enemy of football" for supposedly inciting death threats against the ref, causing him to quit the game for good. And let's be honest - what Mourinho did to Anthony Taylor earlier this season, causing his family to evade a mob at an airport, was an absolute disgrace. No Chelsea fan is particularly fond of Taylor but no man should have to protect his family because of what he does at work, especially something so trivial at football. Jose contributed massively to that stirring and I thought it was disgraceful.

I absolutely think we would have been allowed to win the CL. But I agree with you the refs in the Champions League when we played were not good enough - now I have to say they are some of the best in the business. The refs when we played under Tuchel I thought were largely outstanding and make our British refs now look well below par.

I am afraid these are little more than tin pot theories and we could do with more people on here calling them out.

[Mark Kelly]

32 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

 

I am afraid these are little more than tin pot theories and we could do with more people on here calling them out.

We really could .

Debate is so overrated , I much prefer your opinion to anyone elses. 

[NoblyBobly]

10 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Come on Bobbly. He was called "the enemy of football" for supposedly inciting death threats against the ref, causing him to quit the game for good. And let's be honest - what Mourinho did to Anthony Taylor earlier this season, causing his family to evade a mob at an airport, was an absolute disgrace. No Chelsea fan is particularly fond of Taylor but no man should have to protect his family because of what he does at work, especially something so trivial at football. Jose contributed massively to that stirring and I thought it was disgraceful.

I absolutely think we would have been allowed to win the CL. But I agree with you the refs in the Champions League when we played were not good enough - now I have to say they are some of the best in the business. The refs when we played under Tuchel I thought were largely outstanding and make our British refs now look well below par.

I am afraid these are little more than tin pot theories and we could do with more people on here calling them out.

We are really going over old ground here  , but saying Mourinho was responsible for death threats against Fisk is obscured. Is there one scrap  of evidence that Chelsea fans sent those messages. Absolutely nobody was charged or caught , which is kind of odd for an emailed death threat. What are the chances that it was Spurs or Liverpool fan out to course Mourinho trouble? Quite high I would think. AND it later turned out that Ricarde did have that animated conversation with Fisk at half time. We were robbed that game as we were many others. 
JM won us 3 titles and set us on the road of incredible success that I had waited decades for. He might be your enemy of football but he’s not mine. … and Overbro wasn’t a bad ref , he wasn’t an inexperienced one who could be easily influenced to please his masters . That why he was picked imo. 

[Sleeping Dave]

On 05/12/2023 at 08:24, ROTG said:

Is he more effective than Stirling on the left?

I don’t even think Sterling is more effective on the left vs Sterling on the right. So don’t understand your argument. 

[Dwmh]

2 hours ago, NoblyBobly said:

We are really going over old ground here  , but saying Mourinho was responsible for death threats against Fisk is obscured. Is there one scrap  of evidence that Chelsea fans sent those messages. Absolutely nobody was charged or caught , which is kind of odd for an emailed death threat. What are the chances that it was Spurs or Liverpool fan out to course Mourinho trouble? Quite high I would think. AND it later turned out that Ricarde did have that animated conversation with Fisk at half time. We were robbed that game as we were many others. 
JM won us 3 titles and set us on the road of incredible success that I had waited decades for. He might be your enemy of football but he’s not mine. … and Overbro wasn’t a bad ref , he wasn’t an inexperienced one who could be easily influenced to please his masters . That why he was picked imo. 

Obviously i agree with all the praise for JM.
But scrap of evidence - I think there might be.  Not a serious threat though, mostly just a way out for Frisk who was smart enough to include the h/t chat in his post match report.

[NoblyBobly]

1 minute ago, Dwmh said:

Obviously i agree with all the praise for JM.
But scrap of evidence - I think there might be.  Not a serious threat though, mostly just a way out for Frisk who was smart enough to include the h/t chat in his post match report.

Where was the scrap of evidence that a Chelsea fan sent a death threat. If so , wed have heard all about it relentlessly. Show me the scrap of evidence that it was not a false flag. 
It’s a very common tactic particularly in football to blacken your opponents name…and quite simple too.  Maybe it was a loony Chelsea fan but maybe it wasn’t . 
Do no one was charged , no one was found or even identified, but Mourinho is the enemy of football in UEFAs eyes  because he believed Steve Clarke when Steve Clarke told him Rycard was battering the ref about his performance at half time ( which was essentially accurate after we were told it was a complete lie). 

[Dwmh]

2 minutes ago, NoblyBobly said:

Where was the scrap of evidence that a Chelsea fan sent a death threat. If so , wed have heard all about it relentlessly. Show me the scrap of evidence that it was not a false flag. 
It’s a very common tactic particularly in football to blacken your opponents name…and quite simple too.  Maybe it was a loony Chelsea fan but maybe it wasn’t . 
Do no one was charged , no one was found or even identified, but Mourinho is the enemy of football in UEFAs eyes  because he believed Steve Clarke when Steve Clarke told him Rycard was battering the ref about his performance at half time ( which was essentially accurate after we were told it was a complete lie). 

I'll pm

[NoblyBobly]

12 hours ago, Dwmh said:

I'll pm

Thanks Droy. But it kind of confirms the whole absurd email death threat  thing. Fisk didn’t wake up one morning and find a pigs head under the duvet. An email death threat can come from a 12 year old girl on the other side of the world who’s having a boring day. But the headlines all over the back page are “ Fisk retires after death threat from Chelsea fan”. And of course everyone imagines it’s a skinhead Chelsea Headhunter from Battersea when actually it was little “Charlene from Adelaide”. 
But more to the point , what Mourinho said was essentially true so why can’t he express that without being called an enemy of football.? That didn’t just stick to Mourinho, it stuck to us. 
We have our own forum members who still believe that nonsense and think the label was accurate. What chance do we have in the big wide world? 
From the day we got a billionaire Russian owner and a brilliant cocky coach , the cross hairs from the media and football authorities have been on us. They can drift away now and again ( usually depending how successful we are being) , but in an instant they can be re focused. They nearly managed to take down the whole club and I have not forgotten that. Abromovich was the best owner the PL has ever seen. They could not wait to take this club away from him. Seeing us mid table must bring them so much joy.  

[Backbiter]

Rarely a week goes by with reports of death threats against some ref or player. But the alleged one against Frisk is still brought up almost 20 years later.

[Dwmh]

52 minutes ago, Backbiter said:

Rarely a week goes by with reports of death threats against some ref or player. But the alleged one against Frisk is still brought up almost 20 years later.

A lot of it is the hate stuff against JM  (Steve Clarke who told JM he had seen Rijkaard enter the ref's room never ever gets blamed or mentioned).

There are fake pictures (thumb in Pep's eye for example, or the glare of Eva at him) which still get shown as genuine by mainstream press.

If JM went to press conferences and just bull shitted nonsense like Klopp does they'd be no problem.  But his criticisms are generally too on the mark to be ignored.
Look at any news topic, the guys and gals that get attacked the most are the ones that get it right - JK Rowling for example.

[Sciatika]

I was watching the last few minutes of the game [yes, I know, I'm sad]. I noticed Milner deliberately making a back for Broja and hurting him as a result. How can the referee not have seen this? Milner had already been booked for the challenge that led to the penalty. That should have been a second yellow for reckless endangerment of a fellow player. He should have been sent off. Referees never see that.

[Dwmh]

8 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

I was watching the last few minutes of the game [yes, I know, I'm sad]. I noticed Milner deliberately making a back for Broja and hurting him as a result. How can the referee not have seen this? Milner had already been booked for the challenge that led to the penalty. That should have been a second yellow for reckless endangerment of a fellow player. He should have been sent off. Referees never see that.

I remember that - a disgrace.  And quite deliberate.  Broja stayed down a while too.

One of the issues with VAR is that it is all about protecting the referee from looking bad, not about protecting the players (or more importantly protecting the kids and park footballers who watch TV and play to the limits of the big game referees.

Where dangerous or wreckless play is involved (or simply lack of care to the opponent) I think VAR should be able to reccoment yellow, not simply Red or zilch.  Diving too.

[Ham]

11 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

I was watching the last few minutes of the game [yes, I know, I'm sad]. I noticed Milner deliberately making a back for Broja and hurting him as a result. How can the referee not have seen this? Milner had already been booked for the challenge that led to the penalty. That should have been a second yellow for reckless endangerment of a fellow player. He should have been sent off. Referees never see that.

I remember thinking exactly the same during the game.

Harry Kane's favourite move. 

I was amazed that the commentators didn't pick up on it. 

Had Broja landed on his head/neck and been seriously injured, they'd have been forced to look at it.