Manchester United 2 Chelsea 1

[Original 21]

What worried me about Pochettinho tonight was we were crying out for a change after half time as the game was drifting away from us. Any fool could see that Jackson and Mudryk were awful and the team was all over the place. As he was preparing to bring on Maatsen (presumably to close things down at 1-1) they score and then he brings on Broja instead and now we’re effectively chasing the game. And we end up losing anyway. Too little, too late.

He’s really just not a very creative or proactive manager, is he? He only changes things when we’re losing. Can’t remember him being positive once. Just lets the game drift and seems scared to make a decision. Really, taking off Cucurella at half time was the absolute minimum given how poor he was. But who decided to play him out of position in the first place when Disasi and Badashiele were more than competent at the weekend? And why not bring on Broja and Maatsen at half time while you’re at it? Give the opposition something to think about for Christ’s sake! Poch is sadly really going down in my estimation. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by Original 21

[kev61]

13 minutes ago, kev61 said:

It will be interesting to see what our owners will do now(probably nothing).I would have got rid of Poch at least 6 weeks ago (I said so at the time).

He is not the main reason we are failing.The owners are more responsible imo -buy players at an inflated price and give them a 7 year contract!!!.

I honestly think some of today's players aren't really that bothered about playing football.They are multi millonaires without having to kick a ball.

Things were starting to unravel under Tuchel.Some players were ignoring his instructions and you could see his frustration on the touchline.

The new owners came in and got rid one of the best managers we ever had and thought they knew best.

We are in crisis with this manager(again not all his fault)but it is cheaper to get rid of the manager that has blantantly failed than to throw more money after bad.

Just to add Abramovich had the right formula - whether that was to do with him or people around him or both.He sacked managers at the right time and brought in a new manager that refreshed an ailing squad and if not he sacked them as well.

Edited December 7, 2023 by kev61

[kev61]

12 minutes ago, Original 21 said:

What worried me about Pochettinho tonight was we were crying out for a change after half time as the game was drifting away from us. Any fool could see that Jackson and Mudryk were awful and the team was all over the place. As he was preparing to bring on Maatsen (presumably to close things down at 1-1) they score and then he brings on Broja instead and now we’re effectively chasing the game. And we end up losing anyway. Too little, too late.

What if he’s really just not a very creative or proactive manager? He only changes things when we’re losing. Can’t remember him being positive once. Just lets the game drift and seems scared to make a decision. Really, bringing on James at half time was the absolute minimum given how poor Cucurella was. And who decided to play him out of position in the first place when Disasi and Badashiele were more than competent at the weekend? And why not bring on Broja and Maatsen at half time? Give the opposition something to think about for Christ’s sake! Poch is sadly really going down in my estimation fast. 

Yes, a very good summation.I'm at the stage now when I wake up and hope he has been sacked...sorry.

[Floyd25]

Two miserable clubs with nothing but memories facing each other, United are in dire straits, have no direction and the future for them looks bleak, so what does that say about us? What future do we have? After that loss it’s impossible to pick ourselves up and remain positive, this isn’t an overreaction, our season is over in the league, all that’s left is the cups, for now at least. Before today I could recognise at least a few positives, after that it’s clear we’re finished. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by Floyd25

[kev61]

51 minutes ago, Floyd25 said:

Two miserable clubs with nothing but memories facing each other, United are in dire straits, have no direction and the future for them looks bleak, so what does that say about us? What future do we have? After that loss it’s impossible to pick ourselves up and remain positive, this isn’t an overreaction, our season is over in the league, all that’s left is the cups, for now at least. Before today I could recognise at least a few positives, after that it’s clear we’re finished. 

I suppose there a chance we might improve without our current manager.

'Give him until Christmas' was the consensus.I fear we will be in the bottom half come January.

Bring in a new manager,but do you trust our owners to bring in a decent manager?I don't.

Honestly things are so bad I can't see a way out for the foreseeable future.

 

 

 

[xceleryx]

Yeah, not going to win games when you can't execute the fundamentals of the sport. You could see the naivety and lack of leadership with not a single soul willing to put their foot on the ball and settle things down. Instead it was constant ping-pong of getting possession and then proceeding to give it away at the first opportunity that we could.

Gallagher's industry in the middle was sorely missed, as was just having an extra body in there with Enzo and Caicedo. The two man midfield just didn't have presence, and while I do like Palmer centrally he doesn't really give you much presence out of possession. 

Another thing we need to talk about is Colwill. He's kinda blinkered to his surroundings and constantly backs off his man in one vs one situations, giving up important yards in dangerous areas. I get that he's a cool customer but his lack of urgency in certain moments can be real defining. He was involved in giving up both goals vs Brighton, and now he's been done again for what ended up being United winner. 

Realistically though you could go through and just about pick apart every player in this one. There's glimpses at times of some positives, but the consistency and immediate quality just isn't there on an all too regular occasion.

I think Poch also needs to consider making a few changes himself. Granted, he's not helped by having some limited choices in certain areas, but in the areas where he does the time has come to maybe show a bit more. 

Overall though just not a good performance at all against a side that we just can't find a way of beating for one reason or another. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by xceleryx

[xceleryx]

1 hour ago, kev61 said:

Just to add Abramovich had the right formula - whether that was to do with him or people around him or both.He sacked managers at the right time and brought in a new manager that refreshed an ailing squad and if not he sacked them as well.

Easy to say looking back at it now, but the football landscape was vastly different for a lot of those years. The league wasn't as competitive as it is now across the board, there's more money within the league so the financial muscle isn't as decisive, and there's arguably a shortage of high quality managers overall - much less ones we haven't already churned through and spat out. 

At some point stability is needed where we're going to need to ride things out and see. Whether this is the right time to do it is of course up for debate, but the old RA model isn't something that'll produce the same positives in the present day. 

[kev61]

Cast your mind back to when the new owners took over and sacked Tuchel and brought in a PE teacher.

I like many others were optimistic because we were desperate after we thought we might go out of business.

The optimism is dead in the water.It's obvious these guys know NOTHING about football.Unfortunately we are tied to them if they so want.

At least the Arabs put up the money and leave it to people that know the game of football.

 

[kev61]

11 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Easy to say looking back at it now, but the football landscape was vastly different for a lot of those years. The league wasn't as competitive as it is now across the board, there's more money within the league so the financial muscle isn't as decisive, and there's arguably a shortage of high quality managers overall - much less ones we haven't already churned through and spat out. 

At some point stability is needed where we're going to need to ride things out and see. Whether this is the right time to do it is of course up for debate, but the old RA model isn't something that'll produce the same positives in the present day. 

Not so - the Abramovich era would never have a blindly bought players at ridiculous  prices and rewarded them with 7 year contracts.

I agree the premiership is a lot more competitive in the history of premiership but we are now a laughing stock because of clueless owners.

Do they have a get out of jail card? I don't know I'm not smart enough.

[SideshowLuiz]

Jackson was horrific yesterday. Brain dead pass which led to the first goal, then tries taking a touch instead of shooting first time for the 1 on 1 and finally misses a header from 2 yards out. 

Broja surely has to start the next game. 

[kev61]

24 minutes ago, SideshowLuiz said:

Jackson was horrific yesterday. Brain dead pass which led to the first goal, then tries taking a touch instead of shooting first time for the 1 on 1 and finally misses a header from 2 yards out. 

Broja surely has to start the next game. 

Start to get the placards ready "Bohley out".It's inevitable. 

[Original 21]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

I think Poch also needs to consider making a few changes himself. Granted, he's not helped by having some limited choices in certain areas, but in the areas where he does the time has come to maybe show a bit more. 

That game was a real eye opener for me. I’ve backed Poch up to now but I think he’s messing up badly and if he carries on like this he won’t survive. At some point the manager has to take responsibility and stop blaming the players. It’s not a good look.

It was Pochettino who picked Cucurella to play right back. It was Poch who dropped Badashiele. It was Poch who insists we play out of the back despite the fact that we are terrible at it. It’s Poch who kept Mudryk and Jackson on. It’s Poch who couldn’t  get us to adapt our tactics and play the game higher in United’s half as they’re actually as rubbish as we are at the back. 

The fact that United are a team in disarray, with rumours they’re on the verge of sacking their manager, and they can outplay us with such ease, says a lot about where we are as a club. We were actually lucky it wasn’t 6-1. The score really flattered us. And the fact that it was a largely self inflicted loss, says a lot about how Poch is running the squad into the ground with poor team selections, poor tactics, and really shit in-game management. If things don’t turn around fast, he’s a goner. And deservedly so. That wasn’t good enough. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by Original 21

[kev61]

2 minutes ago, Original 21 said:

That game was a real eye opener for me. I’ve backed Poch up to now but I think he’s messing up badly and if he carries on like this he won’t survive. At some point the manager has to take responsibility and stop blaming the players. It’s not a good look.

It was Pochettino who picked Cucurella to play right back. It was Poch who dropped Badashiele. It was Poch who insists we play out of the back despite the fact that we are terrible at it. It’s Poch who kept Mudryk and Jackson on. It’s Poch who couldn’t  get us to adapt our tactics and play the game higher in United’s half as they’re actually as rubbish as we are at the back. 

The fact that a team in disarray, on the verge of sacking their manager, can outplay us with ease, says a lot about where we are as a club. We were actually lucky it wasn’t 6-1. The score really flattered us. And the fact that it was a largely self inflicted loss, says a lot about how Poch is running the squad into the ground with poor team selections, poor tactics, and really shit in-game management. If things don’t turn around fast, he’s a goner. And deservedly so. That wasn’t good enough. 

It was the last straw for me he IS a goner.No more excuses no more the injuries no more 'if only we had Nkunku' (not his saying).

We are going backwards it is as simple as that.(and I will say again not entirely his fault).

[kev61]

I wonder what a poll would say now.

Should Poch go now or should we wait until after xmas?.

I would vote now.

[Chelsea_Matt]

6 hours ago, east lower said:

Let us pray - young Matthew 🙏

You may call me by my actual given name, which is Matt. Thanks!

[Chelsea_Matt]

6 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

No pro sportsman/woman reaches top level sport without having desire. 

Everything is wildly up and down at the moment but I don't think it has anything to do with them not trying. Imho it's more down to the players simply not being good enough at this moment in time. It goes way back to Sarri, saying the players were not able to do what he was asking from them. TT said pretty much the same and so on and so on to where we are now.

Agreed but I still don’t think they care. 8 year contracts etc 

[Sleeping Dave]

8 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

If you have a very facile take on keeping, yeah. Let's not forget who passed the ball to United in the build up for their penalty. 

Which he saved.

Berating the club for getting rid of the worst first choice keeper we’ve had for eons is just… weird. 

[Sleeping Dave]

One thing is for sure, we won’t be playing in the Champions League 2024/25. Perhaps we won’t even play in any European competition at all. 

Calling for Pochs head is silly. He hasn’t created this mess and it’s not his fault we have such a young squad. This will take time to fix. Maybe even seasons. Firing him now won’t solve a damn thing imo. 

[My Blood Is Blue]

I’ve got my company Christmas away day and party today, so I’m getting in a quick post before I leave. Fortunately, I don’t want to say too much as it will just be a rant.

If the players can’t get themselves up for an away trip against a poor Man United side who are in turmoil, then this set of players really has no chance. It appears none of them understand what it is to be Chelsea. This is not the Chelsea we know and love, they wear the same colour shirts but that’s where it ends.

I have said it before, but the new owners have ripped the heart and soul out of this club and haven’t even replaced it with anything half decent yet.

Sad.

[ROTG]

3 hours ago, xceleryx said:

At some point stability is needed where we're going to need to ride things out and see. Whether this is the right time to do it is of course up for debate, but the old RA model isn't something that'll produce the same positives in the present day. 

Sustainability is base on revenue, with the current trajectory the revenue will continue to decline, therefore ones hopes enticing the kind of playing and coaching staff to return to the elite level diminishes at the same rate, with the only option of selling any crown jewels to maintain sustainability once the HG pile is depleted.

TBH if the club had a 60k stadium, i would be very surprised if it would be full week after week with he current predicament the club is in. On the positive side I could probably get a season with ease 😃

ROTG saying BFN

[xceleryx]

3 hours ago, kev61 said:

Not so - the Abramovich era would never have a blindly bought players at ridiculous  prices and rewarded them with 7 year contracts.

I agree the premiership is a lot more competitive in the history of premiership but we are now a laughing stock because of clueless owners.

Do they have a get out of jail card? I don't know I'm not smart enough.

Yes, because every transfer made under RA tenure was well thought out, logical, and catered towards the team and present managers needs, much less all representing value for money.

As for 7 year contracts, they aren't new, they aren't revolutionary, and no more or less detrimental than say a more conventional 5 year deal to someone earning 300k+ per week. There is a middle ground here, but of course it's also just an easy stick to whip with so all sensible rational goes out the window. 

We're a middling team right now, no qualms there. I can't speak for everyone, but I've also said numerous times before this is what I had expected us to be given the path we've chosen to go down. It was never meant or designed to be this "get rich scheme" in terms of turning us into an immediate powerhouse, time and patience was always going to be required. A couple key additions in certain areas can have the ability to quickly turn the tide.

No real get out of jail card needed really. The upside to what we've done is that we're not bogged down by overpaid contracts that are impossible to move on from, something that's plagued us several times over in the past. If we really wanted to pivot it's quite an easy possibility. Sure, it may mean a few losses on certain players we paid more premium fees to obtain, but by large a lot of signings we've made have come at controllable price points. We could quite easily bite the bullet and sell a handful of players we feel aren't going to make it, while turning around and signing more proven established figures to raise the sides floor level. As we've seen though in say a Man Utd's case, that's not necessarily fool proof either.

We're certainly not what I'd call up shit creek without a paddle. Of course, each to their own in believing what they want. It really is a matter of opinion. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by xceleryx

[ROTG]

2 hours ago, kev61 said:

Start to get the placards ready "Bohley out".It's inevitable.

I thought Bohley was only part of the consortium with Clearlake being the majority share holder.

Cards aimed at recruitment department would be more apt as they are responsible for the current playing staff.

 

ROTG saying BFN

Edited December 7, 2023 by ROTG

[east lower]

10 minutes ago, ROTG said:

TBH if the club had a 60k stadium, i would be very surprised if it would be full week after week with he current predicament the club is in. On the positive side I could probably get a season with ease 😃

ROTG saying BFN

I always thought that 50k to 55k was big enough with our fan base and the UK media’s and latterly the political relentless assaults on us making supporting Chelsea FC a challenge. Easier to support others.

I think that ST’s will be easier to come by next season anyway, the crap being served up alongside the inevitable price hike and the owners will cause a good few to say no thanks.

[xceleryx]

2 hours ago, Original 21 said:

That game was a real eye opener for me. I’ve backed Poch up to now but I think he’s messing up badly and if he carries on like this he won’t survive. At some point the manager has to take responsibility and stop blaming the players. It’s not a good look.

It was Pochettino who picked Cucurella to play right back. It was Poch who dropped Badashiele. It was Poch who insists we play out of the back despite the fact that we are terrible at it. It’s Poch who kept Mudryk and Jackson on. It’s Poch who couldn’t  get us to adapt our tactics and play the game higher in United’s half as they’re actually as rubbish as we are at the back. 

The fact that United are a team in disarray, with rumours they’re on the verge of sacking their manager, and they can outplay us with such ease, says a lot about where we are as a club. We were actually lucky it wasn’t 6-1. The score really flattered us. And the fact that it was a largely self inflicted loss, says a lot about how Poch is running the squad into the ground with poor team selections, poor tactics, and really shit in-game management. If things don’t turn around fast, he’s a goner. And deservedly so. That wasn’t good enough. 

I mean in fairness a lot of our struggles at time have been on the players themselves not delivering. Whether that's been through silly individual errors, lax decision making, subpar finishing, and naive ill discipline. It's not as if Poch is the one out there making the decisions once the ball is live. 

RJ wasn't 100% fit to play so it's been said, so Cucurella at RB isn't that surprising. Badiashile has only returned from injury recently after a long time out, he's played two league games since coming back with the last one being 4 days ago - I can see why he may have been dropped for precautionary sake and not over extending him. You can question his decisions with Mudryk and Jackson, personally I don't have great issue with Mudryk because he needs minutes and his pace is always going to be a danger. Jackson on the other hand should've been replaced earlier, and honestly I'd be questioning why he's still starting games. But yeah, there's issues there for sure with some of his decisions but I'm also understanding enough to take some context into account and that not everything is as straight-froward as it may look from our position as fans. 

In fairness, we've been shite against Man Utd for years - even when we've had good teams that were doing better and them struggling. They're a problem side for us for one reason or another, even just looking beyond this result and performance here. As I mentioned about, some things may not be as straight-forward but there's also things I know he's got the ability to change, or where changes can be made - such as our shape tactically, the emphasis on playing out from the back so much, etc. 

[Thiago97]

Men vs Boys sums it up perfectly for me. Or functional vs non functional. We made so many basic and fundamental mistakes in this game. If I was insane enough to watch that again. I’m convinced you would comfortably find Chelsea players making 30-40 mistakes per half.

We actually really remind me of Swansea when they were in the PL. Looked very easy on the eye at times, but often fell short when they played a functional team of men. 
 

That was just a terrible performance throughout the team tonight. The players need to stand up and show some real backbone . Price tags and reputations need putting to one side right now, we need some players who are experienced, and who know and understand how to be functional within a team.  Players like Jon Obi Mikel , Matic , Alex .

Disciplined professional players who are imposing . That’s not to say the talent we have are cast aside, but they need to understand the fundamentals of the game and positioning from senior pro players in and around them. 
 

I’m not that fed up with seeing us lose games. I’m fed up with the constant mental fragility and same mistakes repeated over and over for the last 18-24 months. It’s a horrible term, but it’s very fitting for this group. They really need to man up.