Everton 2 Chelsea 0

[Dwmh]

9 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Players should be held responsible for their own individual performances. Quality players will still be able to do their jobs well even if  those around them are not.

Kane always looked world class even in a team that was nowhere world class. Enzo has been branded as "elite" by some on here yet looks nothing more than a bang average £25 million journey man level player piddling about making a 101 meaningless passes in the middle of the pitch. 

Enzo looked absolutely brilliant last year under Potter.  Well worth the money.  For 6 months he played with all the confidence of a WC winner in a team of idiots.  Moreover he was looking for players that were making runs for him.

Only this season does he look like he has taken not of what the team is and no longer cares for it.

We had a great team and almost all of them went off to better clubs than ours and in some cases at good prices.
 

The big concern now is that we will lose more good players only younger and at lower prices than before.

probably the scariest thing in football is Enzo looking at his 2030 contract.

[Backbiter]

17 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

 

 

The big concern now is that we will lose more good players only younger and at lower prices than before.

probably the scariest thing in football is Enzo looking at his 2030 contract.

I reckon our owners are so deluded they think that, by hiring the Brighton recruitment team and investing huge sums in young players, we'll be able to sell them on in a year or two for several times the amount we paid for them. Because that is what Brighton have managed to do. So that will work for us, and we'll make hundreds of millions in profit when we sell Fernandez, Caicedo and Lavia.

 

[Mark Kelly]

16 minutes ago, Backbiter said:

I reckon our owners are so deluded they think that, by hiring the Brighton recruitment team and investing huge sums in young players, we'll be able to sell them on in a year or two for several times the amount we paid for them. Because that is what Brighton have managed to do. So that will work for us, and we'll make hundreds of millions in profit when we sell Fernandez, Caicedo and Lavia.

 

Yes we need to sell them to that desperate and muggy club Brighton found. 

Oh. Wait. 

[ROTG]

20 minutes ago, Backbiter said:

we'll make hundreds of millions in profit when we sell Fernandez, Caicedo and Lavia

Be luck to get £100m for the trio. 
must be the biggest waste of £300m in football history. 

[Max Fowler]

58 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Players should be held responsible for their own individual performances. Quality players will still be able to do their jobs well even if  those around them are not.

Kane always looked world class even in a team that was nowhere world class. Enzo has been branded as "elite" by some on here yet looks nothing more than a bang average £25 million journey man level player piddling about making a 101 meaningless passes in the middle of the pitch. 

But Kane was experienced in this league and country when he carried the team. And at no point during his Spurs career were they as dysfunctional as we have been for the last 18 months.

We need to be careful not to overhype players but if we keep blaming them this cycle is just going to continue. Yes they need to step up individually but the biggest problem is the culture around them.

Case in point - despite his class goal Palmer was really poor against United. Yes he could show more than Mudryk even when playing badly, but there is very little one individual can do in a broken team.

[boratsbrother]

11 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Be luck to get £100m for the trio. 
must be the biggest waste of £300m in football history. 

We can't pass anykind of opinion on Lavia yet.

I'd take a 50% loss on Cucu, Mudryk, Enzo and Caisedo, so that would be around £150 million to invest on new players. Better to take that huge hit now than persist with players who aren't good enough to get us back to challenging the top teams again. 

 

 

[Chelsea_Matt]

23 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Be luck to get £100m for the trio. 
must be the biggest waste of £300m in football history. 

Lavia I don’t know but the other two - pretty underwhelming tbh

[boratsbrother]

20 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

But Kane was experienced in this league and country when he carried the team. And at no point during his Spurs career were they as dysfunctional as we have been for the last 18 months.

We need to be careful not to overhype players but if we keep blaming them this cycle is just going to continue. Yes they need to step up individually but the biggest problem is the culture around them.

Case in point - despite his class goal Palmer was really poor against United. Yes he could show more than Mudryk even when playing badly, but there is very little one individual can do in a broken team.

Kind of agree.

I'm a fan of Palmer and think he's done very well overall but he too is being a bit over hyped. But out of the entire squad I'd only give a 7/10 average for Palmer and Gallagher this season. Most are averaging 5 or less imho. 

 

[Dwmh]

39 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

We can't pass anykind of opinion on Lavia yet.

 

Injury prone.

[chara]

31 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Kind of agree.

I'm a fan of Palmer and think he's done very well overall but he too is being a bit over hyped. But out of the entire squad I'd only give a 7/10 average for Palmer and Gallagher this season. Most are averaging 5 or less imho. 

 

Me too..kind of agree..... would give Palmer a 1/2 point more and a potential for 8/10 or 9/10 on a consistent basis IF things get turned around. Conor?...a good solid 7/10 but with the cards on each shoulder every game!

The 5/10 -6/10 for the rest of the squad (excluding Silva from any opinion on this point)...the worry for me is there is very little confidence in me for any major improvement except on the occasional moment..Raheem for obvious reasons.

Sorry days indeed....my first season at SB had the team coming out to a chorus on the tannoy (?) of..."...when you're down and out the only way is up "...(Didn;t work but appropriate now if we have any Blue faith left in us.!)

[Mark Kelly]

1 hour ago, Max Fowler said:

But Kane was experienced in this league and country when he carried the team. And at no point during his Spurs career were they as dysfunctional as we have been for the last 18 months

Oh yes they were, post Gareth Bale, Pochettino wasted the money they got from selling him and persisted with a piss poor striker he'd identified from Spain (sound familiar?) whilst Harry Kane languished in the reserves and it wasn't until the Spaniard got injured that Kane got his chance, firstly in the cup and then the league as Poch didn't fancy him. 

The man is a fraud. 

[Thiago97]

14 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Oh yes they were, post Gareth Bale, Pochettino wasted the money they got from selling him and persisted with a piss poor striker he'd identified from Spain (sound familiar?) whilst Harry Kane languished in the reserves and it wasn't until the Spaniard got injured that Kane got his chance, firstly in the cup and then the league as Poch didn't fancy him. 

The man is a fraud. 

Half correct to my recollection. Poch was starting with Soldado in the league in the first couple of months of the season, but Kane was starting in the Europa league and league cup and scoring a few goals. He was not languishing in the reserves under Poch.

I think you are correct that Soldado got an injury which opened the position for Kane. This all happened over a period of around 3 months, when Kne was still a young and relatively unproven player. 

[asvaberg]

Btw: the Villa lineup 4-4-1-1 - is it in reality a 4-2-3-1 or what? And would such lineup possibly suit our squad?

 

[kev61]

16 hours ago, asvaberg said:

I don't think it's about possession. My belief is it's to stretch the opponant team, to "lure" their players way into our half and then get spaces within their MF/defence.

Or am I totally wrong? Please correct me, if so.

I would take a rugby approach.Instead of playing out from back I would tell the goalkeeper to launch the ball out of touch to the  furthest point of the opposition's half.

It would advance our play in the oppositions half even if the ball didn't get much beyond the half way line.

It seems a less risky option than playing out from the back that one mistake could lead to a disaster.

[kev61]

17 hours ago, asvaberg said:

I don't think it's about possession. My belief is it's to stretch the opponant team, to "lure" their players way into our half and then get spaces within their MF/defence.

Or am I totally wrong? Please correct me, if so.

To "lure" means you are doing something that the opposition don't know what you intend to do.The cat is out of the bag we look  ridiculous as any team that adopts this strategy.

Coaches that adopt this strategy  are clueless.Unfortunately for us Poch has adopted this strategy  which means to me he is clueless.

We might get a win tomorrow but it will not change my opinion of Poch.

Edited December 10, 2023 by kev61

[ROTG]

43 minutes ago, kev61 said:

I would take a rugby approach.Instead of playing out from back I would tell the goalkeeper to launch the ball out of touch to the  furthest point of the opposition's half.

It would advance our play in the oppositions half even if the ball didn't get much beyond the half way line.

It seems a less risky option than playing out from the back that one mistake could lead to a disaster.

Howard Wilkinson would be proud of those tactics 

[kev61]

26 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Howard Wilkinson would be proud of those tactics 

Yes very clever.It is an alternative to fucking about with the ball in defense and not hoofing it up to a useless centre forward with no players off him.

[kev61]

9 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

 

Case in point - despite his class goal Palmer was really poor against United. Yes he could show more than Mudryk even when playing badly, but there is very little one individual can do in a broken team.

Palmer is a shining light in the whole debacle.Man city thought he was surplus to requirements.It says a lot about Pep.He knows a good player when he sees one,but he is so overloaded with good players he will make the odd mistake.

Cities loss is our gain but there is where it finishes

A win tomorrow will do nothing to make me feel we're on the right road.It will take a run of wins.

[Sciatika]

5 hours ago, kev61 said:

I would take a rugby approach.Instead of playing out from back I would tell the goalkeeper to launch the ball out of touch to the  furthest point of the opposition's half.

It would advance our play in the oppositions half even if the ball didn't get much beyond the half way line.

It seems a less risky option than playing out from the back that one mistake could lead to a disaster.

I think that would play into Everton's hands. They are a Dyche side and train for launched and second balls both in possession and out of it. They will probably play a 4-5-1 or a 4-4-1-1 with Calvert Lewin up front, Doucoure in support and play on the break. I think they will swamp the midfield which will push forward and press in possession seeking a turnover. Out of possession, the midfield will drop deep. If we launch the ball, their defenders will eat it up almost every time. However, that's a high-energy game so we need to be patient, keep possession and wear them down looking for a mistake. Do we have the players to do that? Not sure. We have to use the skills of Palmer and Enzo to slot balls through the midfield and use the width on the flanks to stretch them to make space. Caicedo will probably have to play a little deeper, to protect the defence. Personally, I would play Badiashile in this game.

[asvaberg]

5 hours ago, kev61 said:

To "lure" means you are doing something that the opposition don't know what you intend to do.The cat is out of the bag we look  ridiculous as any team that adopts this strategy.

Coaches that adopt this strategy  are clueless.Unfortunately for us Poch has adopted this strategy  which means to me he is clueless.

We might get a win tomorrow but it will not change my opinion of Poch.

For what is worth, me not being native English speaking, change word "lure" with tempt or invite.

[Thiago97]

1 hour ago, asvaberg said:

For what is worth, me not being native English speaking, change word "lure" with tempt or invite.

You were fine with lure. We know what you meant, and it was a good descriptive work for what you were trying to say.

It's very much how Brighton play, and it is also how we have tried to play throughout periods of the season. It does have some limitations, as Brighton are finding out this season. Opposition teams are taking the tactic of not engaging with them, keeping shape and letting them fanny about with the ball in deeper areas. They want you to put them under pressure and press them high up the pitch, so they can play quick short passes and open up space to exploit.

For some reason we cannot seem to consistently replicate this style well. We have the players on paper to be able to perform this, but we often seem to get ourselves in a mess. It is a high risk high reward strategy, which looks great when it works, but a car crash when it doesn't.

It's another reason why i believe the first goal is so important with this group of players. The current style of play, and their mental fragility is very easy to expose. The game midweek at Utd it almost seemed like we were intent on going one down, before we would start playing our game. The spurs game was a very similar start. It's also why I fear today could be a bit of a smash up, as they will start quick and direct, turning us at every opportunity and winning the majority of the 50./50 knockdowns from Calvert Lewin.

I just don't see anything other than 3-1 type scoreline with Everton scoring within the first 10-15 mins. However, as Sciatika said, we have to continue to play our passing game to some degree, as that is our best chance or scoring against Everton.......but probably conceding too!

[Max Fowler]

5 hours ago, kev61 said:

Palmer is a shining light in the whole debacle.Man city thought he was surplus to requirements.It says a lot about Pep.He knows a good player when he sees one,but he is so overloaded with good players he will make the odd mistake.

Cities loss is our gain but there is where it finishes

A win tomorrow will do nothing to make me feel we're on the right road.It will take a run of wins.

Palmer is able to show his quality because of the type of player he is and his upbringing at City. Road runners like Sterling and Mudryk require the team playing well to shine, likewise Enzo and Caicedo coping in midfield. For players new to the league, it’s even harder to show quality in a dysfunctional team.

[Max Fowler]

He’s been saying similar things for weeks. I no longer think he is capable of getting „fire“ out of our players.

 

 

[Mark Kelly]

7 hours ago, ROTG said:

Howard Wilkinson would be proud of those tactics 

It's pretty much how Villa beat Arsenal . 

[Mark Kelly]

13 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

He’s been saying similar things for weeks. I no longer think he is capable of getting „fire“ out of our players.

 

 

It's just one meaningless soundbite after another , it's exactly the same sentiment he used a few days after the Newcastle debacle , his own innate negativity and cowardice are rubbing off on the players and now they're scared too.