Everton 2 Chelsea 0

[thevelourfog]

1 minute ago, Mark Kelly said:

It's just one meaningless soundbite after another , it's exactly the same sentiment he used a few days after the Newcastle debacle , his own innate negativity and cowardice are rubbing off on the players and now they're scared too.

Nothing innate about it. If you were to poll 100 football fans and ask them to criticise Pochettino's pre-Chelsea football, I'm completely confident 90 of them would be talking about it being gung ho and overly aggressive. 

These players don't seem to be able to get 5 yards into the oppo half without conceding. That may well be Pochettino's coaching, but it isn't his mindset.

[boratsbrother]

41 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

. Road runners like Sterling and Mudryk require the team playing well to shine, likewise Enzo and Caicedo coping in midfield. 

We paid record breaking fees for Enzo and Casicedo to be game changers for us, so what you say here is actually pretty damming on their contributions to the team. We should be paying average fees for average  players who need to be in a good team playing well to look good.

[Max Fowler]

4 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

We paid record breaking fees for Enzo and Casicedo to be game changers for us, so what you say here is actually pretty damming on their contributions to the team. We should be paying average fees for average  players who need to be in a good team playing well to look good.

It's not that they can't carry the squad in future - it's that they are too young and new to the team/league to do it all by themselves right now. Hence why Gallagher elevates them both so much.

[Max Fowler]

24 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Nothing innate about it. If you were to poll 100 football fans and ask them to criticise Pochettino's pre-Chelsea football, I'm completely confident 90 of them would be talking about it being gung ho and overly aggressive. 

These players don't seem to be able to get 5 yards into the oppo half without conceding. That may well be Pochettino's coaching, but it isn't his mindset.

The problem for me is he's been hinting at a mentality problem all season with increasing intensity - now it's reached a crux point where we really need to match the opposition in terms of effort and determination? This should have been the standard set from day one - as Poch has began to "crack the whip", all we have seen is us move to the top of the yellow card league.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Max Fowler

[My Blood Is Blue]

Poch is at fault for some elements of the abject displays we’re currently, but it’s also just down to the make up of the squad; we massively lack leaders and players that wouldn’t allow standards to slip or effort to drop this low. It’s a problem we’ve had for a while to be fair, before the new owners went through the ‘rebuild’. Until that is rectified with a few signings based on personality rather than potential, we won’t improve and won’t see any progress towards a consistent work rate level and fight and determination throughout the squad, regardless of who the manager is.

I’ve said it so many times that I’m bored of hearing it, but we would have been so much better off buying a 3/4 players with experience of this league at a lower level of perceived quality who had the mentality required instead of 5/6 of the youngsters we signed. The balance is completely off in our squad in terms of experience. 

I honestly think we’d be in a better position now if we had signed (for example) Dunk, Henderson, Willian and Calvert-Lewin instead of (for example) Disasi, Ugochukwu, Mudryk and Jackson. But these players have little to no sell on value and so were of no interest to us. The irony is, the squad that’s been assembled is going to plummet down this league and be stuck there for many years, without some big adjustments and therefore our revenue will massively drop. 

Admittedly, it could pay off and in a few years once this team has the experience it may click and we may fly back up the league, but I can’t see it and it’s an incredibly high risk strategy in a ruthless industry and in the toughest league in the world.

[Chelsea_Matt]

56 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

The problem for me is he's been hinting at a mentality problem all season with increasing intensity - now it's reached a crux point where we really need to match the opposition in terms of effort and determination? This should have been the standard set from day one - as Poch has began to "crack the whip", all we have seen is us move to the top of the yellow card league.

 

 

 

 

In Poch’s defence I believe him. I think he DOES care.  Saying that we’ll be lucky to get nil today. 

[Mark Kelly]

1 hour ago, thevelourfog said:

Nothing innate about it. If you were to poll 100 football fans and ask them to criticise Pochettino's pre-Chelsea football, I'm completely confident 90 of them would be talking about it being gung ho and overly aggressive. 

These players don't seem to be able to get 5 yards into the oppo half without conceding. That may well be Pochettino's coaching, but it isn't his mindset.

It's meant , not in the strictest sense of the word more that he always seems overly concerned with what the opposition will do to us than what he can do to the opposition.

As an example , even when we had both James and Chilwell fit at the same time (imagine that!) He chose instead to play Chilwell on the left wing instead of left wing back so he could play Colwill at left back and then instructed Colwill not to overlap because he was scared we'd be left exposed . Bringing the worst out of both Colwill , and Chilwell and negating the effect of our attack , he continued this with Mudryk who was expected to defend but he never allowed Colwill to help him when we attacked , again because he was scared .

Edited December 10, 2023 by Mark Kelly

[Max Fowler]

8 minutes ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

In Poch’s defence I believe him. I think he DOES care.  Saying that we’ll be lucky to get nil today. 

It's not about caring. I believe he cares too. It's about setting standards and being able to get a tune out of the players - on the ball and off the ball. Hearing from Poch with ever-increasing intensity about the fact that we should be competing is all well and good, but this should have been the focus from day one. I don't believe it was.

I don't believe there has been the pressure on these players from Poch or the club in general, so when he has started "cracking the whip", we have seen his cries for more passion manifest in rank ill-discipline. Either we go completely missing in games or shoot ourselves in the foot with needless red cards and suspensions.

He is unable to find the balance between support and pressure. When he is too supportive the players aren't on the edge that's required, when he puts pressure on them they go over it. The players and especially the club deserve criticism for this losing mentality, but ultimately Poch is also failing to inspire our squad correctly.

[Chelsea_Matt]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

It's meant , not in the strictest sense of the word more that he always seems overly concerned with what the opposition will do to us than what he can do to the opposition.

As an example , even when we had both James and Chilwell fit at the same time (imagine that!) He chose instead to play Chilwell on the left wing instead of left wing back so he could play Colwill at left back and then instructed Colwill not to overlap because he was scared we'd be left exposed . Bringing the worst out of both Colwill , and Chilwell and negating the effect of our attack , he continued this with Mudryk who was expected to defend but he never allowed Colwill to help him when we attacked , again because he was scared .

Maybe he isn’t scared - but just sees how weak, spineless, entitled, stupid, soft and pathetic the players are.

[Dwmh]

1 hour ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Poch is at fault for some elements of the abject displays we’re currently, but it’s also just down to the make up of the squad; we massively lack leaders and players that wouldn’t allow standards to slip or effort to drop this low. It’s a problem we’ve had for a while to be fair, before the new owners went through the ‘rebuild’. Until that is rectified with a few signings based on personality rather than potential, we won’t improve and won’t see any progress towards a consistent work rate level and fight and determination throughout the squad, regardless of who the manager is.

I’ve said it so many times that I’m bored of hearing it, but we would have been so much better off buying a 3/4 players with experience of this league at a lower level of perceived quality who had the mentality required instead of 5/6 of the youngsters we signed. The balance is completely off in our squad in terms of experience. 

I honestly think we’d be in a better position now if we had signed (for example) Dunk, Henderson, Willian and Calvert-Lewin instead of (for example) Disasi, Ugochukwu, Mudryk and Jackson. But these players have little to no sell on value and so were of no interest to us. The irony is, the squad that’s been assembled is going to plummet down this league and be stuck there for many years, without some big adjustments and therefore our revenue will massively drop. 

Admittedly, it could pay off and in a few years once this team has the experience it may click and we may fly back up the league, but I can’t see it and it’s an incredibly high risk strategy in a ruthless industry and in the toughest league in the world.

I agree with all that except" it could pay off"  "in a few years" which i really doubt.  Congratulations fellow posters and fans who hang on for a while - we really are here when CFC is sh1t.

and except this

1 hour ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

It’s a problem we’ve had for a while to be fair, before the new owners went through the ‘rebuild’.

Mount, Kovacic, Azpi, Jorginho, Rudiger, Alonso were all playing to summer 2022 and were all committed players who played for the team.  Boosted by Kante prior to his injury period.
In Summer 2022 we kept some balance with Koulibaly and Sterling. Aubameyang, Zakaria, Felix, Cucurella, while Fernandez and Fofana had some miles on the clock.
The real dependence on naive youth started this season.

[east lower]

Today’s matchday photo, calm before the storm!

 

 

[Sciatika]

[east lower]

4 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

That’s a side that’s saying either my job is completely secure or sack me!

[Original 21]

Silva, Colwill, Sterling, Jackson drop to the bench. Cucurella starts on the left. Mudryk gets another go up front. Broja chance to stake a claim ahead of Jackson. 

Let’s hope it’s not just shuffling the deck chairs on a sinking ship.  

[Dwmh]

Just now, east lower said:

That’s a side that’s saying either my job is completely secure or sack me!

I'd say it was a side that says "I don't trust any of my players beyond one bad game".
It also says I don't want a squad of 19 year old maybes.  Anyone noticed how a squad with a sizeable contingent of teenaged S Americans, none of them ever get beyond the bench?  The same 14 or 15 players get shuffled around.

[Chelsea_Matt]

9 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

I'd say it was a side that says "I don't trust any of my players beyond one bad game".
It also says I don't want a squad of 19 year old maybes.  Anyone noticed how a squad with a sizeable contingent of teenaged S Americans, none of them ever get beyond the bench?  The same 14 or 15 players get shuffled around.

As I’ve said above - I think he sees how utterly weak, lazy, entitled and stupid the players are.

[My Blood Is Blue]

He’s made some changes, which is good to see, but I’d guess that’s more giving players a rest more than anything else.

As always with our club, my biggest question when seeing the team is… where are the goals coming from?!

[east lower]

14 minutes ago, Original 21 said:

Let’s hope it’s not just shuffling the deck chairs on a sinking ship.  

Horrible feeling that it is exactly that.

13 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

I'd say it was a side that says "I don't trust any of my players beyond one bad game".
It also says I don't want a squad of 19 year old maybes.  Anyone noticed how a squad with a sizeable contingent of teenaged S Americans, none of them ever get beyond the bench?  The same 14 or 15 players get shuffled around.

And if you don’t trust 50%+ of your players then it’s a massive issue. 
 

TBF most of the young S.American’s are on loan. 

[Max Fowler]

I have been saying many games are a "must-win" recently. In case I am accused of saying every game is a "must-win", let me make myself clear. Today is a "cannot-win".

[east lower]

Just a thought, the regular changing of the back 4 or 5 with different systems can’t help.

Best defences are ones that get used to playing together. You can then tweak here and there for different opponents.

[asvaberg]

38 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

I'd say it was a side that says "I don't trust any of my players beyond one bad game".
It also says I don't want a squad of 19 year old maybes.  Anyone noticed how a squad with a sizeable contingent of teenaged S Americans, none of them ever get beyond the bench?  The same 14 or 15 players get shuffled around.

But he trusts Sanchez? Hmmmmm

[asvaberg]

9 minutes ago, east lower said:

Just a thought, the regular changing of the back 4 or 5 with different systems can’t help.

Best defences are ones that get used to playing together. You can then tweak here and there for different opponents.

Quite. We have had some nice, stable and terrific pairs of central backs in our recent history (since Vialli's era and up until Mourinho). 

[boratsbrother]

35 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

 

As always with our club, my biggest question when seeing the team is… where are the goals coming from?!

But it's no longer just a question of where our goals are coming from. We've become just as poor in defence and if we play like we did on Wednesday we could lose by 5 today.

Edited December 10, 2023 by boratsbrother

[asvaberg]

The optimist in me says this is the day Broja will have a hat-trick 🙂

[Chelsea_Matt]

Just now, asvaberg said:

The optimist in me says this is the day Broja will have a hat-trick 🙂

They do say you Scandies enjoy a drink… 💙👀 🍺