Chelsea 0 Fulham 0

[thevelourfog]

4 minutes ago, kev61 said:

I watched a stream from America.In fairness to Andy Townsend he said that Potter's Chelsea was hard to watch and said we should be playing more "off the cuff" which I interpreted as letting players express themselves,which I have been saying for years.

Think Townsend has it backwards. Potter is all about the players having "freedom" to "express themselves".

What this lot desperately need is some drills.

[Original 21]

Don’t understand the negativity given how many new players were on the pitch. Of course expectations were high. But Fulham are no mugs and we had the better chances in the second half. Positives are that defensively we didn’t concede and Badashiele looks a very solid defender given his age. Enzo is absolute class. Madueke was really bright. Even a half-fit Reece James is a blessing. Fofana probably needs a turn as centre forward to see how he does. And Felix has served his suspension. That’s something for Potter to build on. 

[xceleryx]

First things first, the general performance left a lot to be desired at times. Naturally, with quite a few new players it will take a little bit of time for everyone to gel and get a proper understanding for each other. That said, I wouldn't say it was great tactical football on Potters behalf either which seems to be a common theme since he arrived.

A few observations;

• As I've said before when talking about Enzo, he needs to be playing higher up the pitch to truly be maximised. While he played that deep role today and did well, just watching him off the ball he doesn't have the same awareness that Jorginho had in terms of presenting himself as an out ball for others. Quite a few times he'd just be sitting rather stationary, where someone like Jorginho would've been constantly on the move trying to make space for himself to receive the ball. Little things like this may go under the radar and seem inconsequential but the importance of it when we're in the deeper positions and trying to move the ball forward is quite significant. Defensively he's also not as strong, but that was something I was already aware of anyway so wasn't expecting him to pull up trees in this area.
• I'm a little miffed as to Potters logic in starting Mudryk but then being so comfortable with seeing us funnel the ball down the right hand side on virtually every occasion. No disrespect to Ziyech, but unless he has a fullback constantly overlapping to allow Ziyech the space to come back inside he kills so many attacking phases having to cut inside and go backwards due to being rather one dimensional. Surely if the idea was to give Mudryk 45 minutes we'd be looking to maximise that time. Potter idly watching this happen wasn't a good look.
• The space between the defence and midfield, and then the midfield and attack, was often too great. This created quite a big disconnect and made it harder for us play quicker more fluid football, as passes were needing to travel further which increases both difficulty and risk. While some of this may be because of new players still finding their feet, it's also a tactical issue and made it harder for us to actually get our foot on the ball in the middle to control things more. 
• From the quick little math I did Potter lead teams have scored 64 league goals in the last 59 league games going back to last season. Keeping in mind that 11 of these goals came in the final 4 games of last season for Brighton, with another 5 coming in the Brighton vs Leicester match early this season which was Potter's final game before joining us. That's 16 goals of an overall 64 having come in 5 matches, which spanned across a period of 10 games in total . Utterly ridiculous.

Otherwise I thought Gallagher was decent again, liked his energy and was close to grabbing a goal in the second half. He's a more dangerous player closer to goal, so hopefully we can make more of that eventually. D.Fofana looked bright when coming on, you can tell the difference in movement between a proper CF and a makeshift one in Havertz. Again, he was unlucky not to score after a great run and good foot work to round Leno and the defender. Havertz was meh. His inconsistent touch and poorly timed runs get on my nerves at times. He's not useless, but he's far from the player initially hoped. Otherwise Thiago Silva and Badiashile were solid once again, was good to see RJ back albeit he looked pretty ordinary on both sides of the ball outside of one or two moments, and it was also nice to see Noni have an encouraging debut.

Overall though a bit of a backwards step from some of the more encouraging signs from the Liverpool match, but not our worst performance either. We should be doing better though. 

Edited February 3, 2023 by xceleryx

[boratsbrother]

42 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

We may never achieve anything under Potter as Martin thinks but we will absolutely positively definitely not push on playing the cadaver that is Havertz as a centre forward , DD Fofana is already better than him after twenty minutes of first team football for us .

Every time he got the ball in the first half he was offside even two seconds after kick off. He is an absolute whopper of a player almost as useless as Lukaku . I'd swap him for a bag of eighty year old balls tomorrow.

As with Puli, I had high hopes of him becoming a top player for us, but 3 years on there's not the slightest sign of him progressing as a player.🙁 I think it's time to move him on this summer even though it will probably be for a huge loss. Would we even get half our money back on him now?

[thevelourfog]

1 minute ago, Original 21 said:

Don’t understand the negativity given how many new players were on the pitch. Of course expectations were high. 

No, I had absolutely no expectations. I'm actually pretty relieved we didn't lose or embarrass ourselves, based on how we've played since September. I'm not bothered about the result, and wasn't expecting an especially fluid performance.

And it was still worse to watch than I expected. 

I think you do understand the negativity. You just don't agree with it.

[chara]

Only saw second half...couldn't quite get a grip on what was going on.

Overall impression was GP using the game as a sort of "advanced" preseason game and "trying" things....totally an impression and the best as I can describe what I was watching.

Long term a lot of positive signs somewhat lost in the overall view of the game.

Usual licence to kick the s*** out of Chelsea but don't you dare as a Chelsea player glare at an oppo.

VAR red card check...'aving a larff....perhaps they got the colours mixed up but soon settled that.

Sad day when,for whatever reason. Chelsea can't beat a good 'ish Fulham (or any) side at SB.

[Michael Tucker]

5 minutes ago, chara said:

Sad day when,for whatever reason. Chelsea can't beat a good 'ish Fulham side at SB.

This.

[Ham]

3 minutes ago, chara said:

Only saw second half...couldn't quite get a grip on what was going on.

Overall impression was GP using the game as a sort of "advanced" preseason game and "trying" things....totally an impression and the best as I can describe what I was watching.

Long term a lot of positive signs somewhat lost in the overall view of the game.

Usual licence to kick the s*** out of Chelsea but don't you dare as a Chelsea player glare at an oppo.

VAR red card check...'aving a larff....perhaps they got the colours mixed up but soon settled that.

Sad day when,for whatever reason. Chelsea can't beat a good 'ish Fulham (or any) side at SB.

Doesn't help when the home crowd are silent, waiting to be entertained before groaning loudly at each miscontrolled ball or failed pass.

No wonder we look better away where the support is constant and positive. 

Pathetic from the home crowd tonight. 

[Michael Tucker]

1 minute ago, Ham said:

Pathetic from the home crowd tonight. 

This too.

[chara]

Just now, Ham said:

Doesn't help when the home crowd are silent, waiting to be entertained before groaning loudly at each miscontrolled ball or failed pass.

No wonder we look better away where the support is constant and positive. 

Pathetic from the home crowd tonight. 

I watch with the sound off so missed that factor although it did look as if the Chelsea crowd gave Willian applause as he went off..was that so?

[thevelourfog]

Just now, Ham said:

Doesn't help when the home crowd are silent, waiting to be entertained before groaning loudly at each miscontrolled ball or failed pass.

No wonder we look better away where the support is constant and positive. 

Pathetic from the home crowd tonight. 

I don't think anyone not at the game (making an assumption here, sorry if I'm wrong) should be criticising the fans, and definitely shouldn't be putting responsibility on them for the performance and results being shite. Any atmosphere dissipated in the second half, long after it was clear nothing was going to happen. And especially because the idea that we're any better away is absolutely bizarre to me. We haven't won away since Zagreb at the start of November!

[martin1905]

5 minutes ago, Ham said:

Doesn't help when the home crowd are silent, waiting to be entertained before groaning loudly at each miscontrolled ball or failed pass.

No wonder we look better away where the support is constant and positive. 

Pathetic from the home crowd tonight. 

It's the same at every ground at every game, which is sad but it is what it is. Tonight wasn't really different to any other home game.

Liverpool's fans are put on a pedestal but once they've sung you'll never walk alone before the game they are as quiet as a mouse.

Our away fans are great but to be fair nearly every teams are, in terms of making an atmosphere at least. 

 

[chara]

Regardless of the game it's just great to see the Forum up and running and such terrific freewheeling debate .....we know what we missed!

[Ham]

3 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

I don't think anyone not at the game (making an assumption here, sorry if I'm wrong) should be criticising the fans, 

Why not? Those who have season tickets and those who have enough loyalty points and opportunity to go have a responsibility. 

The support gets worse every single year and everyone here knows it.  

[boratsbrother]

6 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

First things first, the general performance left a lot to be desired at times. Naturally, with quite a few new players it will take a little bit of time for everyone to gel and get a proper understanding for each other. That said, I wouldn't say it was great tactical football on Potters behalf either which seems to be a common theme since he arrived.

A few observations;

• As I've said before when talking about Enzo, he needs to be playing higher up the pitch to truly be maximised. While he played that deep role today and did well, just watching him off the ball he doesn't have the same awareness that Jorginho had in terms of presenting himself as an out ball for others. Quite a few times he'd just be sitting rather stationary, where someone like Jorginho would've been constantly on the move trying to make space for himself to receive the ball. Little things like this may go under the radar and seem inconsequential but the importance of it when we're in the deeper positions and trying to move the ball forward is quite significant. Defensively he's also not as strong, but that was something I was already aware of anyway so wasn't expecting him to pull up trees in this area.
• I'm a little miffed as to Potters logic in starting Mudryk but then being so comfortable with seeing us funnel the ball down the right hand side on virtually every occasion. No disrespect to Ziyech, but unless he has a fullback constantly overlapping to allow Ziyech the space to come back inside he kills so many attacking phases having to cut inside and go backwards due to being rather one dimensional. Surely if the idea was to give Mudryk 45 minutes we'd be looking to maximise that time. Potter idly watching this happen wasn't a good look.
• The space between the defence and midfield, and then the midfield and attack, was often too great. This created quite a big disconnect and made it harder for us play quicker more fluid football, as passes were needing to travel further which increases both difficulty and risk. While some of this may be because of new players still finding their feet, it's also a tactical issue and made it harder for us to actually get our foot on the ball in the middle to control things more. 
• From the quick little math I did Potter lead teams have scored 64 league goals in the last 59 league games going back to last season. Keeping in mind that 11 of these goals came in the final 4 games of last season for Brighton, with another 5 coming in the Brighton vs Leicester match early this season which was Potter's final game before joining us. That's 16 goals of an overall 64 having come in 5 matches, which spanned across a period of 10 games in total . Utterly ridiculous.

Otherwise I thought Gallagher was decent again, liked his energy and was close to grabbing a goal in the second half. He's a more dangerous player closer to goal, so hopefully we can make more of that eventually. D.Fofana looked bright when coming on, you can tell the difference in movement between a proper CF and a makeshift one in Havertz. Again, he was unlucky not to score after a great run and good foot work to round Leno and the defender. Havertz was meh. His inconsistent touch and poorly timed runs get on my nerves at times. He's not useless, but he's far from the player initially hoped. Otherwise Thiago Silva and Badiashile were solid once again, was good to see RJ back albeit he looked pretty ordinary on both sides of the ball outside of one or two moments, and it was also nice to see Noni have an encouraging debut.

Overall though a bit of a backwards step from some of the more encouraging signs from the Liverpool match, but not our worst performance either. We should be doing better though. 

Agree with a lot of what you say there, especially about Enzo. Isn't the quickest player around either so defo agree about playing him further up the pitch, otherwise I can see teams exploiting his lack of pace like they did with Jorginho. 

Nice and tidy on the ball for sure, but for a British record fee, is he the superstar game changer that we desperately need?  For that kind of fee I would want that suoerstar game changer who'll create and score lots of goals.

 

[thevelourfog]

Just now, Ham said:

Why not? Those who have season tickets and those who have enough loyalty points and opportunity to go have a responsibility. 

The support gets worse every single year and everyone here knows it.  

Because you have absolutely no idea what the atmosphere was like, just what was broadcast. And you should know better than to trust that.

Tonight was no different to the atmosphere at any big PL club playing home against a club they have no real hostility towards (very one sided from Fulham) in a dire game. Everyone should know that, but plenty continue to pretend it's a problem particular to us.

And responsibility, my arse. Why on Earth would me screaming for 90 minutes embue Havertz with the ability to finish? It's just finger pointing because we're running out of other things to say.

[kev61]

27 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

 

What this lot desperately need is some drills.

 That's novel,black'n'decker?

[boratsbrother]

12 minutes ago, Ham said:

Doesn't help when the home crowd are silent, waiting to be entertained before groaning loudly at each miscontrolled ball or failed pass.

No wonder we look better away where the support is constant and positive. 

Pathetic from the home crowd tonight. 

I'd like to hear Potter and some of the players start calling out the pathetic support.

Is it down to us no longer having much of a hardcore "working class" support these days and more recent supporters not having longstanding ties to the area and therefore not having the same kind of  passion a  Geordie or Scouser will have for their team?

 

[Ham]

1 minute ago, thevelourfog said:

Because you have absolutely no idea what the atmosphere was like, just what was broadcast. And you should know better than to trust that.

Tonight was no different to the atmosphere at any big PL club playing home against a club they have no real hostility towards (very one sided from Fulham) in a dire game. Everyone should know that, but plenty continue to pretend it's a problem particular to us.

And responsibility, my arse. Why on Earth would me screaming for 90 minutes embue Havertz with the ability to finish? It's just finger pointing because we're running out of other things to say.

I don't want to get into an argument about it but the broadcast made it very clear that Chelsea fans sat on their hands for most of that. 

Nobody was asking you to scream for 90 minutes but what you could hear clearly was groaning. Definitely doesn't help Havertz's confidence. 

I've only every been a member which allows me to try each and every stand out and whenever I've sat in amongst season ticket holders I've found them to be mute apart from chatting amongst themselves, unlike the members who don't take it all for granted. 

Go back 10 years and our home support was better.  Just awful now. 

The number of people who give you a funny look for trying to get something going......

 

[martin1905]

9 minutes ago, Ham said:

Why not? Those who have season tickets and those who have enough loyalty points and opportunity to go have a responsibility. 

The support gets worse every single year and everyone here knows it.  

Again it's not a Chelsea thing, it's a football thing or at least an English football thing. People are more bothered about taking photos of themselves and getting attention on social media or filming things than they are about the game, let alone creating an atmosphere.

Won't be long until there is no singing at all at games, that type of fan is dying out and the modern day fan is a different breed.

When I first started going the whole of the Harding and Shed would be rocking for 90 minutes, I still love the shed end as when it's good in there there's nothing quite like it but those occasions are few and far between. The Harding upper is now rubbish and the lower not much better unless your in the middle of the middle. 

[boratsbrother]

Can we have an edit button please?

[Ham]

1 minute ago, boratsbrother said:

Can we have an edit button please?

Three dots top right

[RDCW]

6 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Because you have absolutely no idea what the atmosphere was like, just what was broadcast. And you should know better than to trust that.

Tonight was no different to the atmosphere at any big PL club playing home against a club they have no real hostility towards (very one sided from Fulham) in a dire game. Everyone should know that, but plenty continue to pretend it's a problem particular to us.

And responsibility, my arse. Why on Earth would me screaming for 90 minutes embue Havertz with the ability to finish? It's just finger pointing because we're running out of other things to say.

Get a grip, mate. Your anger is disproportionate and intellectually weak. We are all disappointed with our inability to break down a stubborn Fulham defence, just as we all know the support at the Bridge is getting worse all the time. I think we all know too that one of the functions of support is to get behind the team through thick and thin: we are partisans at a sporting event, not spectators at the theatre. I have a season ticket and though I wasn't there tonight I can tell you that our support is generally pretty s**t. The reason for that is largely the sense of entitlement you are displaying on the forum tonight.

[martin1905]

7 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

I'd like to hear Potter and some of the players start calling out the pathetic support.

Is it down to us no longer having much of a hardcore "working class" support these days and more recent supporters not having longstanding ties to the area and therefore not having the same kind of  passion a  Geordie or Scouser will have for their team?

 

The scousers home support is shit, like really shit. As I said earlier they sing you'll never walk alone before the game and then you can hear a pin drop.

Much like us and every other team in the league they have a small section of noisy fans. 

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by martin1905

[Ham]

2 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Again it's not a Chelsea thing, it's a football thing or at least an English football thing. People are more bothered about taking photos of themselves and getting attention on social media or filming things than they are about the game, let alone creating an atmosphere.

Won't be long until there is no singing at all at games, that type of fan is dying out and the modern day fan is a different breed.

When I first started going the whole of the Harding and Shed would be rocking for 90 minutes, I still love the shed end as when it's good in there there's nothing quite like it but those occasions are few and far between. The Harding upper is now rubbish and the lower not much better unless your in the middle of the middle. 

I know it's crass but at least Palace and, more recently, Arsenal, have tried to do something about it.

I'm not advocating drums and black t shirts but a section needs to be set aside for a hardcore of fans to create an atmosphere.

Wearetheshed are great at banners but that's it. Whatever happened to the plans for 500 fans in the shed to create noise?