Chelsea 0 Fulham 0

[martin1905]

12 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

I heard the commentators say that isome of the Chelsea fans are starting to turn against  Cucu.

Don't like turning on our own players during games, but  I do think he's been a truly disastrous signing and should be sold for whatever we can get. 

Some fans have, just look at this forum, not sure what the commentator meant by it though, assume he meant we were vocal about it, which is just not true.

I mean a game when one of our former players got a standing ovation and we started singing his song really isn't the time to make things up about us turning on players, we are one of the best clubs anywhere to not do this and always support our own. 

[Holymoly]

9 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Overall though a bit of a backwards step from some of the more encouraging signs from the Liverpool match, but not our worst performance either.

Overall I felt your post was very negative. This group of players basically had two days (less than one in the case of Enzo what with his media duties) to develop a few stock plays for this game. There was certainly no time at all to formulate an overarching strategy and this has been the case all season because of injuries which have neccesitated players to cover for abesences in areas of the pitch that are not entirely natural for them.

To compare the game with Liverpool is chalk and cheese as Liverpool were abysmal while Fulham are a well drilled stable team. Case in point was Mudryk who was lauded as the second coming by many for his 30 minutes against the Scum. I warned that this was over praising the player after a single, short appearance. He has a long way to go in his development and yesterday will have been a wake up call for him. There is more to the game than outright pace. Ask Adama Traoré.

Finally, Sky mic placement aside, we need to do something about the home support. I guess it's a consequence of having concentrated on football tourism over the years. It's not so much the lack of noise (which is an issue) but that too few know the songs any more. There's not enough organised "banter" in the chants and when the opposition breaks out we don't seem to know what to do to counter it as supporters. For pity's sake I'm pretty sure we were cheering Willian at a couple of points yesterday. Maybe the answer is for the club to keep the supporters back after the game and coach them in chants and songs rather than just blasting out Foo Fighters in an effort to phase the opposition. My chums from back in the 70's will be turning in their graves. (This last bit was sarcasm btw)

[boratsbrother]

8 hours ago, kev61 said:

I

There is a 'circuit' of top managers that have done the rounds,we know who they are.It's only a matter of time before Potter is replaced with a manager that has managed top class players with a degree of success.

 

And we've had nearly all of those on that circuit. From those who haven't managed us -  Pep and  Klopp and we won't be hiring either of them, so that leaves Simrone and Allegri and I for one wouldn't want either of those two and their horrid football anywhere near our club!

Every manager is going to be a punt from now on, so what do we do with the next one, give them a year to turn things around and sack them if they don't?  

 

 

 

[martin1905]

There have been an awful lot of excuses for Potter and no doubt people will now use all the new signings and needing time as one, which of course they will need time but he needs to show something, ANYTHING, but sticking it on us fans is a new one. 

We are playing the worst football I can ever remember, see absolutely no sign of anything changing, I mean how about some movement at set pieces and someone beating the first man with a corner or I don't know maybe players actually running around to try and win the ball back, yet we still turn up week in, week out home and away spending an absolute fortune in doing so and it's somehow partly our fault that the team is where it is or we see performances like last night?

As I've said the atmosphere has been rubbish for years and years, not just at Chelsea, everywhere including the mighty Anfield who, after the initial singing of 'their national anthem' do nothing. Last night was absolutely no different to any other game. 

 

[CarefreeMuratcan]

50 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

I heard the commentators say that isome of the Chelsea fans are starting to turn against  Cucu.

Don't like turning on our own players during games, but  I do think he's been a truly disastrous signing and should be sold for whatever we can get. 

There was a cheer when he was subbed off. 

[martin1905]

9 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

 

 

All the usual suspects. Clearly have no idea what a rebuild entails or how long it will take. Maybe go support Arsenal I hear they have a half decent team these days after 2 or 3 years of development.

 

Pretty sure everyone is aware where we are as a club and it is going to take time, doesn't mean you have to blindly follow the manager and allow him that time.

15 league games

W5 D5 L5

Scored 14 goals.

Win ratio 33%

1.33 PPG

This would not even be acceptable if we were a mid table club that needed rebuilding and spent £600m as there would be zero signs of improvement after nearly half a season. We are looking like will we finish around 12th or lower

We weren't a mid table club, we were a top 4 club that won the champions league two years ago, had been to three domestic finals, won the European super cup and  club world cup.

 

[thevelourfog]

26 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

Finally, Sky mic placement aside, we need to do something about the home support. I guess it's a consequence of having concentrated on football tourism over the years. It's not so much the lack of noise (which is an issue) but that too few know the songs any more. There's not enough organised "banter" in the chants and when the opposition breaks out we don't seem to know what to do to counter it as supporters. For pity's sake I'm pretty sure we were cheering Willian at a couple of points yesterday. Maybe the answer is for the club to keep the supporters back after the game and coach them in chants and songs rather than just blasting out Foo Fighters in an effort to phase the opposition. My chums from back in the 70's will be turning in their graves. (This last bit was sarcasm btw)

Haven't seen the figures for a while, but I don't think they support what you're identifying as the issue at all. The overwhelming majority of seats at Stamford Bridge are taken up by ST holders and then members, with relatively few going to general sale or outlets where tourists have access to them. The people at games overwhelmingly are the same people each fortnight. 

I think Chelsea's "issue" is exactly this. The fanbase is getting older and older, and not being regenerated in the way that clubs with bigger stadiums manage with their turnover of regulars. To my eye, our away crowd (and I've not been a regular for nearly a decade, which perhaps tells a story) is overall younger, and frankly more energetic.

I suppose it's a bit contradictory, but also true ... The general "decline" in football atmospheres is about more children and families attending, and football grounds becoming a far less intimidating place for people who 30-40 years ago wouldn't be at that them. There's a trade off, there. An atmosphere that welcomes those people is going to be less hostile, no way around it.

I'd happily ditch the sodding Foo Fighters pre-game, though. 

[Bison]

Positives:

Badiashile impressed yet again. He will be a huge miss in the Champions League.

Enzo was impressive. Think I read @xceleryx say that he isn't as good defensively as Jorginho which is surprising. If Jorginho had these same exact numbers below we'd be told he's a deceptively good defender and we just don't understand his game. Very strange.

Madueke looked lively and tried to make things happen.

Fofana looks like he can cause chaos in the final third.

Negatives:

We looked like a badly coached team. You can say it's because of the new arrivals but that was also the case before the transfer window. I have no faith in Potter.

Mudryk was quiet but I've heard he was suffering with a bad cold so fair enough.

Ideally we will have a team where only one of Havertz, Ziyech, Gallagher and Mount is featuring at any one time. Playing all four of them will not lead to anything good.

[Mark Kelly]

30 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

 

I'd happily ditch the sodding Foo Fighters pre-game, though. 

Possibly the most overrated band since the Rolling stones

[Holymoly]

46 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Pretty sure everyone is aware where we are as a club and it is going to take time, doesn't mean you have to blindly follow the manager and allow him that time.

Are you aware of the contradiction in this sentence?

[Holymoly]

17 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Possibly the most overrated band since the Rolling stones

You do make me laugh out loud mate.

[boratsbrother]

16 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Possibly the most overrated band since the Rolling stones

😲😳🤯.

Second only to The Beatles as the greatest and most influential pop groups of all-time! Stopped making great records by the early 80's though.

Never a big fan of The Beatles, though I do fully appreciate their genius and completely unrivaled popularity. Their record sales are truly astonishing with something like 3 times more records sold than any other band in the history of pop music. Even more astonishing when you consider they were  active for less than a decade and at a time when people had far less disposable income to buy records and the relative price for them was significantly higher than it is today. There's also many more markets opened up across the world these days too, which further adds to the band's remarkable popularity at that time.

 

[Holymoly]

52 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Haven't seen the figures for a while, but I don't think they support what you're identifying as the issue at all. The overwhelming majority of seats at Stamford Bridge are taken up by ST holders and then members, with relatively few going to general sale or outlets where tourists have access to them. The people at games overwhelmingly are the same people each fortnight. 

If you look at the clubs where the home support is routinely criticised it is the Hollywood clubs, United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spuds, City and ourselves, clubs where it's easy to get a ticket due to their capacity or their location in London. The clubs where the support is vociferous are the smaller grounds or unattractive locations such as Palace, Everton (when they're not crucifying the owners), Leeds, Newcastle etc. Football tourism is a thing and it is the top clubs that suffer the most unsurprisingly. I think it is down to the clubs to try and seat the regulars together so that the noise is concentrated, self generating and spreads to other areas, At the moment we are selling the soul of the club, as are many others.

[Box of Tricks]

On the subject of atmosphere, I've always been an advocate of us structuring songs around minutes/moments.

At every kickoff (start/2nd half, after a goal, etc) "We All Follow The Chelsea"

90th minute and into injury time - "KTBFFH" on repeat

26th minute - "John Terry has won the double"

70th minute "Super Chelsea"

Everytime we win a corner "Carefree"

Everytime we make a sub "Ten Men Went To Mow"

That sort of thing. It's not spontaneous, but it would make a massive difference. And there'd still be room for player chants, bursts of "Chelsea, Chelsea", etc...

 

[SideshowLuiz]

2 hours ago, CarefreeMuratcan said:

 

Can't blame Fofana for going for goal but just one more pass and it makes it a better angle. 

Havertz looked livid with Fofana for not passing after, but any striker would have taken that shot, having done most of the work to get in that position.

Also agree that the pass was not an easy one at all, with Leno covering the angle.

[boratsbrother]

I think some fans are getting a bit carried away with the potential for Enzo.

While I think he will be an upgrade on Jorginho, I don't see him making the kind of difference that we are looking for, especially for the record fee we paid for him. Despite the huge amount of money spent this season, we reamin desperately short of an out an out defensive midfielder and an out an out attacking, creative, goal scoring midfielder. Enzo is neither of those and I can see him being yet another midfielder who has technical ability on the ball but not elite ability in either half of the pitch. A level above the likes of Jorginho and Kova but not the 2 or 3 levels above which will help transform the team into title contenders again. I think we're looking at a solid 7-8 out of 10 level player here, not a superstar game changer in the making.

[jasonb]

I used to stream the matches yet this season can't , currently waiting to cash in a small pension.

So largely following on forums and BBC web or radio.

Picked up with the highlights on YouTube and it is all Chelsea just two from Fulham where Willian has a run into the penalty area and lays it off for Cucurella to put in a great block and then Mitrovic with a decent speculative effort from way out.

The rest was from us, Havertz efforts, Gallagher efforts, Enzo and Fofana.

Badasheil looking very good as does Enzo.

Other times I have watched and we have struggled to have more than one decent effort.

I think we will come good later this month and then kick on, too many changes and injuries too close together.

 

[CarefreeMuratcan]

12 minutes ago, jasonb said:

I used to stream the matches yet this season can't , currently waiting to cash in a small pension.

So largely following on forums and BBC web or radio.

Picked up with the highlights on YouTube and it is all Chelsea just two from Fulham where Willian has a run into the penalty area and lays it off for Cucurella to put in a great block and then Mitrovic with a decent speculative effort from way out.

The rest was from us, Havertz efforts, Gallagher efforts, Enzo and Fofana.

Badasheil looking very good as does Enzo.

Other times I have watched and we have struggled to have more than one decent effort.

I think we will come good later this month and then kick on, too many changes and injuries too close together.

 

If Fofana starts we probably win. I really hope Potter give him some starts. Enough of Havertz as a 9. 

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, Holymoly said:

 

 

All the usual suspects. Clearly have no idea what a rebuild entails or how long it will take. Maybe go support Arsenal I hear they have a half decent team these days after 2 or 3 years of development.

 

Artetta has improved arsenal season points total every season which include the season he took over from Emery and had players like Ozil and PEA on the books..

Same could be said of emery at villa, and RDZ at brighton. Both taken over clubs during the season and are on an upward trend and will more than likely amass more points at the end of the season than the previous season, with the only exception being Chelsea coached by GP and Billy Reid. 

Its a funny old game

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

W5 D5 L5

Emery W5 D1 L1 - went straight in after SteveG, implemented 442 formation and coached the team. - I am not a fan, however it proves that if you implement a system and coach to that system, you get results regardless of the playing staff

 

[boratsbrother]

15 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

If you look at the clubs where the home support is routinely criticised it is the Hollywood clubs, United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spuds, City and ourselves, clubs where it's easy to get a ticket due to their capacity or their location in London. The clubs where the support is vociferous are the smaller grounds or unattractive locations such as Palace, Everton (when they're not crucifying the owners), Leeds, Newcastle etc. Football tourism is a thing and it is the top clubs that suffer the most unsurprisingly. I think it is down to the clubs to try and seat the regulars together so that the noise is concentrated, self generating and spreads to other areas, At the moment we are selling the soul of the club, as are many others.

From what I've heard, the support at Utd and Arsenal is the best it's been in a longtime. Also, we don't have a huge capacity either, so I don't buy that as an excuse for our  home fans being so quiet.

[CarefreeMuratcan]

52 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

If you look at the clubs where the home support is routinely criticised it is the Hollywood clubs, United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spuds, City and ourselves, clubs where it's easy to get a ticket due to their capacity or their location in London. The clubs where the support is vociferous are the smaller grounds or unattractive locations such as Palace, Everton (when they're not crucifying the owners), Leeds, Newcastle etc. Football tourism is a thing and it is the top clubs that suffer the most unsurprisingly. I think it is down to the clubs to try and seat the regulars together so that the noise is concentrated, self generating and spreads to other areas, At the moment we are selling the soul of the club, as are many others.

 

13 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

From what I've heard, the support at Utd and Arsenal is the best it's been in a longtime. Also, we don't have a huge capacity either, so I don't buy that as an excuse for our  home fans being so quiet.

The thing is the Club don't care. It's capacity filled regardless. And sadly if anything I bet they prefer to not have a core of "ultras" (for lack of a better word) as this is (in their minds) more likely to bring the problems. 

[thevelourfog]

53 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

If you look at the clubs where the home support is routinely criticised it is the Hollywood clubs, United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spuds, City and ourselves, clubs where it's easy to get a ticket due to their capacity or their location in London. The clubs where the support is vociferous are the smaller grounds or unattractive locations such as Palace, Everton (when they're not crucifying the owners), Leeds, Newcastle etc. Football tourism is a thing and it is the top clubs that suffer the most unsurprisingly. I think it is down to the clubs to try and seat the regulars together so that the noise is concentrated, self generating and spreads to other areas, At the moment we are selling the soul of the club, as are many others.

Why have you literally ignored the point that the overwhelming majority of supporters at Stamford Bridge are regulars? They're all sat together, all the time. I can't say for certain of Liverpool, Arsenal, City, Spurs etc. but I expect the same is true. Certainly some of those clubs still operate waiting lists (rather than loyalty points) for STs, so it absolutely isn't the case that it's "easy" to get a ticket. None of that is grounded in reality, no matter how much you want to push a "football tourism is the problem" line.

I've been to all the other clubs you mention (exception of Leeds) multiple times, and it's simply not true that the support there is "vociferous" by default. They're loud when they're doing well or angry, subdued any other time. Newcastle was quite the surprise to me, absolute myth that their fans loudly back their team whatever comes. The Holmsdale Fanatics supproter group at Palace specifically tried to set up a singing section because they thought their atmosphere was rubbish. They're no different to any other set of supporters, with perhaps the only difference being most hate us and victory would be a scalp. It's an occasion when we come, and we need to be told we're hated. If you think these fans are whipping up a storm when, idk, Brentford or Southampton, come to town, I can't help you. Same way Stamford Bridge is usually geared up for Arsenal or Liverpool, but Fulham is just another game.

The "best" atmospheres are where tickets are cheapest, most readily available to young people and (and there's clearly a relationship here) expectations are low. You're pretty much looking outside the PL, even Championship, for consistently loud home supports.

No idea why so many people buy into other club's supporter's myth-making about themselves. 

[Blue Moon]

Part of the problem derives from the suppression - rightly - of bad language and unwoke terms, resulting in quite a few of the old songs being discouraged / banned, and along with them the "cheerleaders" - one in the Shed lower in particular.

On top of that, it's hard to feel passionate about a side where management and players are frankly anaemic ... the old days of "We don't care about Rafa" are well gone (at the end I was beginning to rather respect his fortitude - washing my mouth out) - maybe a dose of "We don't care about Potter" might wake him up?

And can you imagine singing in praise of Lukaku ("Lukaku is tragic, he's tragic and he's fat / he should have stayed in Italy, but he just said 'f*** that' / he misses with his left foot, his positioning is s**** / and if he scores against the Spurs, we'll sing this song all night")?

Then add to that natural shyness, diffidence, reticence, call it what you will ... I personally find it easy to contribute - and do - loudly - but it's quite hard to lead. I did once at a church-silent Wembley, and to my surpise - and my son's utter amazement - they all joined in, but it's still not something that comes easily).

I sat in the Shed 100 once, but frankly that wasn't very successful. Actually, I was next to a bunch of wags, including someone who turned out to be Cheryl Cole (my daughter recognised her), but "couldn't sing because the paps would take the piss", she said.

Truth is, we're predominantly an increasingly ageing bunch of middle-class jobsworths who don't want the boss / friends / family to see us giving it large on the terraces, more's the pity (although to be fair and even-handed, I did once sit next to a Times 100 board chairman of about 70 years, who was jumping around singing "let's go f***ing mental" with a bunch of 17-year-olds because "it keeps me sane for another two weeks of being urbane". And good luck to him). 

How to fix it? God knows. But we could start by playing exciting football, and introducing some characters into our PR image. Or ask security to lead the singing - how about that? That lady in the Shed lower who looks a bit like Whoopie Goldberg (I think she's still there) scares the bejaysus out of me - I'd sing if she told me to.

[RDCW]

3 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

I don't disagree our support is quiet, and it isn't what it was (as you say) even 10 years ago. Certainly what it was when I first started going. 

What I disagree with is that it's particular to us. Because it isn't. This is football now. Maybe 10 years ago I'd have said Spurs were different, out of the bigger clubs, for vocally backing their team even when not playing well. Not even true for them. This is a top level football thing now. So it does grate to have people repeat the idea that it's particular to us. I'm sure you can understand that. It may have looked worse yesterday because we're playing a team whose fans were especially vocal, because they imagine a rivalry that just isn't there.

I also disagree that it really makes much difference to footballers. Perhaps at a point where they weren't too different, socially and economically, to the fans. But these lot are highly trained, highly paid professionals, often with no connection to us but their contract. I just don't believe that what we do as supporters really makes much difference to them. And I get why people don't like that idea, but I think it is the reality.

The support is such a minor, insignificant contributory factor to performances like yesterday's. 

Eh? Anger and entitlement? Because I disagreed with someone? Without using the insults you regularly throw around freely? You're not very pleasant on here, weird that you get away with it. Please don't bother responding to me any more and I'll do you the same courtesy.

"Courtesy, insults, pleasant" from you? ...... 😂 Stop it froggy, or I'll have to buy some incontinence pants.

In the words of Stephen Hawking, "All we have to do is keep talking! "