Chelsea 0 Fulham 0

[xceleryx]

4 hours ago, Bison said:

Enzo was impressive. Think I read @xceleryx say that he isn't as good defensively as Jorginho which is surprising. If Jorginho had these same exact numbers below we'd be told he's a deceptively good defender and we just don't understand his game. Very strange.

Generally speaking he's not, but he did all that was expected of him in this match despite suffering similarly to Jorginho at times in terms of being isolated by his partners. I never said he was bad defensively in this particular performance mind you, they just play that deeper position in a differing manner. Ideally Enzo has a bit more freedom in the future to get more involved in the final third, that's where he'll make his biggest impact. 

I'm not dismissing Enzo either, I was someone that threw his name out there as a potential target in the summer and someone we should be looking to sign, so am chuffed we've managed to do that. He'll be a tremendous player for us. 

[xceleryx]

5 hours ago, Holymoly said:

Overall I felt your post was very negative. This group of players basically had two days (less than one in the case of Enzo what with his media duties) to develop a few stock plays for this game. There was certainly no time at all to formulate an overarching strategy and this has been the case all season because of injuries which have neccesitated players to cover for abesences in areas of the pitch that are not entirely natural for them.

To compare the game with Liverpool is chalk and cheese as Liverpool were abysmal while Fulham are a well drilled stable team. Case in point was Mudryk who was lauded as the second coming by many for his 30 minutes against the Scum. I warned that this was over praising the player after a single, short appearance. He has a long way to go in his development and yesterday will have been a wake up call for him. There is more to the game than outright pace. Ask Adama Traoré.

My post wasn't negative, it acknowledged that we've got a handful of new players and that will mean time being needed for everyone to gel. Be that as it may, there's also a certain performance level that's expected and I don't think we reached that bar - a lot of which I felt was courtesy of Potter's tactical approach.

As for the Liverpool comment. Again, it's not negative. I thought we looked good against Liverpool in terms of our approach, demeanour, endeavour and how we looked tactically. Thus from a performance perspective we saw encouraging signs. I don't think we hit those same markers against Fulham. Having new players isn't an excuse for shuttling all our play in the first half down the right hand side through Ziyech while our most exciting attacker in Mudryk barely got a sniff. It isn't an excuse for the midfield of Gallagher and Mount often leaving Enzo isolated because there wasn't good communication between the pair. Aspect like these are things Potter has the ability to influence tactically, he instead stood idly by and allowed these things to continue. 

As for Mudryk's performance, it wasn't great but not through fault of his own. Firstly, this was his second game in the last 3 months where he had played a grand total of 30 minutes. Secondly, Potter has confirmed he was ill and that being part of why he was taken off early. The original hope was that he'd have the ability to get through around 60 minutes, as we ease him back into playing again after such an extended period off. Thirdly, as I touched on above, Potter has to take blame for not getting the side to play more down the left hand side and trying to get the ball to Mudryk more often. He got scraps, and that was reflected in the output we saw. 

[Thiago97]

25 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Generally speaking he's not, but he did all that was expected of him in this match despite suffering similarly to Jorginho at times in terms of being isolated by his partners. I never said he was bad defensively in this particular performance mind you, they just play that deeper position in a differing manner. Ideally Enzo has a bit more freedom in the future to get more involved in the final third, that's where he'll make his biggest impact. 

I'm not dismissing Enzo either, I was someone that threw his name out there as a potential target in the summer and someone we should be looking to sign, so am chuffed we've managed to do that. He'll be a tremendous player for us. 

He’ll win far more duels than Jorginho does. He showed that in just one game last night. I agree we will see better from him with a more defensive minded partner. The links to Amrabat on deadline day, suggests the club also realise this.

I cannot see any world where Jorginho will be a better defensively than Enzo though. Maybe tactically in terms of what he doesn’t do, but not dynamically in terms of the task of doing it. 

[boratsbrother]

57 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

The only consistency is the constant negativity. 

I am 100% behind the owners  signing younger players and was saying exactly that before they wasted huge sums of money on the likes of KK, Sterling and Auba. But I will repeat again. They have spent even more money since then and still not addressed the crucial areas where we are very weak. Is that not a big mistake?

 

[Bob Singleton]

Interesting analysis
 

 

[thevelourfog]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

Did you not think that last night we tried to move the ball vertically and with more purpose than previously? 

Fernández aside, I can't say I saw this, no. Maybe the stats say otherwise, but I saw fairly sterile possession all in front of Fulham's defence. Madueke ran at people, but then often had nowhere to go and ended up dribbling backwards. 

[Mark Kelly]

2 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Fernández aside, I can't say I saw this, no. Maybe the stats say otherwise, but I saw fairly sterile possession all in front of Fulham's defence. Madueke ran at people, but then often had nowhere to go and ended up dribbling backwards. 

It was mainly Fernandez to be fair bit it was still a refreshing change.

[ROTG]

21 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Madueke ran at people, but then often had nowhere to go and ended up dribbling backwards. 

Not a bad player for a team like Brighton. Just have to look at his college Gakpo at the dippers to understand the gulf in difference between PL and Dutch premier league. 
 

hopefully the lad will workout, however he has Brighton/ Swansea level/future written all over him. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by ROTG

[ROTG]

2 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

So if Potter is absolutely clueless how does it explain the very easy on the eye football Brighton were playing under him particularly when we are still playing the same turgid football we were seeing in the last few months of Tuchel? 

Not looking for a row just genuinely interested what the answer is because everyone was saying how good Potters Brighton were despite their relatively unknown players.

Potters Brighton we’re a team that at best finished 14th under his stewardship. 

to me GP is not different to a harry redknapp. Who delivered a lot of noise to the media but delivers sweet fa. 
 

 

 

[Mark Kelly]

2 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Potters Brighton we’re a team that at best finished 14th under his stewardship. 

to me GP is not different to a harry redknapp. Who delivered a lot of noise to the media but delivers sweet fa. 
 

 

 

Did Harry Redknapp take a non league Swedish side to the top league and beat Arsenal at the Emirates in the process too then?

[Blue Moon]

3 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

But where do you draw the line with this? As with  comedy, what is offensive to one person can be an acceptable to another.

No half decent person ever wants to go back to the days of hearing disgusting, degrading monkey noises. Songs about the tragic deaths at Hillsborough, Hysel, Munich should also be off limits these days and so too the hissing at Spurs games. That isnt being woke (I'm most definitely not woke) they are basic things to do with common decency which people across the political divide should unite on and for the most part they largely do. 

Verbal abuse for being a Scouse, Manc, Geordie, Cockney or whatever else is fine by me. So too is most of the other questionable stuff (refs being barstewards and all that)  99.0% of fans would only ever shout or sing at a football match. Imho, it is still just a relatively harmless way of legging off  some steam and should be seen as just that, otherwise we will end up having atmospheres of a theatre or Opera.

Totally agree with you there, @boratsbrother. Racism, sexism and injury shouldn't be on the table, but most of the rest is fine by me. God help us if we ever turn into a cricket crowd, polite applause between phases of play etc.

2 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

I actually burst out laughing at the Bournemouth game when I saw they'd replaced the Park Life pre-match VT with the Foo Fighters. Felt very unnecessarily new American owners. Guess Todd isn't much of a Brit pop guy.

Foo Fighters? Not even English, let alone London. Is it because we hired Dave Grohl's physio? Or because Petr Cech plays drums to their songs? I've had to miss the last two matches, so I'vem issed this dubious pleasure - which song?

 

[martin1905]

8 minutes ago, Blue Moon said:

Totally agree with you there, @boratsbrother. Racism, sexism and injury shouldn't be on the table, but most of the rest is fine by me. God help us if we ever turn into a cricket crowd, polite applause between phases of play etc.

Foo Fighters? Not even English, let alone London. Is it because we hired Dave Grohl's physio? Or because Petr Cech plays drums to their songs? I've had to miss the last two matches, so I'vem issed this dubious pleasure - which song?

 

Not sure, never am with them, until they get to the chorus every song sounds exactly the same.

 

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, ROTG said:

Fook me MK how many team have got the one hit wonder in the FA cup?

One hit wonder? Going through the league's is more of an indication that someone is able to coach a side than a cup win . The point is he got his side from nowhere to beating Arsenal at the Emirates , he can coach , it's proven .

He may not be the man for us , he may be finding it a struggle but he's already done his proving .

[Ham]

31 minutes ago, Blue Moon said:

Totally agree with you there, @boratsbrother. Racism, sexism and injury shouldn't be on the table, but most of the rest is fine by me. God help us if we ever turn into a cricket crowd, polite applause between phases of play etc.

Foo Fighters? Not even English, let alone London. Is it because we hired Dave Grohl's physio? Or because Petr Cech plays drums to their songs? I've had to miss the last two matches, so I'vem issed this dubious pleasure - which song?

 

Some real timing issues there 🙉

[east lower]

7 hours ago, martin1905 said:

  8 hours ago, Holymoly said:

 

 

All the usual suspects. Clearly have no idea what a rebuild entails or how long it will take. Maybe go support Arsenal I hear they have a half decent team these days after 2 or 3 years of development.

Disingenuous piece of posting there, suspect that’s why it seems to have been removed.

Speaking of Arsenal, look at what a manager/coach with a coherent plan can achieve, when the very same set of Everton players looked like they were relegation certainty’s under Frank.

[Mark Kelly]

5 minutes ago, east lower said:

Disingenuous piece of posting there, suspect that’s why it seems to have been removed.

Speaking of Arsenal, look at what a manager/coach with a coherent plan can achieve, when the very same set of Everton players looked like they were relegation certainty’s under Frank.

Look what practising set pieces can achieve which I have been saying for months . Regardless of where we stand re Potter being good on corners and throw ins and free kicks makes a difference, and we are terrible.

[martin1905]

3 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Look what practising set pieces can achieve which I have been saying for months . Regardless of where we stand re Potter being good on corners and throw ins and free kicks makes a difference, and we are terrible.

Which is pretty damning.

The most basic of basic things and we look utterly clueless.

[Mark Kelly]

6 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Which is pretty damning.

The most basic of basic things and we look utterly clueless.

Have done for months it's insane 

[east lower]

13 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Have done for months it's insane 

It’s these very basic pieces of coaching that are missing. 
 

I’ve spoken at length to an ex-premier league player, old school friend of mine, who has said that they follow orders from the coach and if they don’t, that’s when they’re in trouble. He scored the winner one game and was cock-a-hoop about it, Venables went loopy at him and dropped him as he hadn’t followed orders.

I suspect our team are doing what they’re told to do and it’s not working.

The evidence is in front of our eyes and it’s got the essence of AVB all over it.  It’s ok giving things time, if you can see signs of improvement. Not many to see, in my opinion.

 

[Holymoly]

3 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Aspect like these are things Potter has the ability to influence tactically, he instead stood idly by and allowed these things to continue. 

I'm amazed at your argument. According to you Potter should have been making subs after 10 minutes? Rather than giving the players time to gel? I suppose you're a child of the Abramovich school of thought and you see any alternative approach to club ownership where people are allowed time to orientate themselves to new surroundings as a sign of weakness. Your way of doing things means we don't have deBruyne or Salah playing for us. And yes I realise the Roman empire was very successful for us however bear in mind it arose from a stable spine of Cech, Terry, Lampard and Drogba from which the ephemeral ornaments were allowed to come and go. I'm prepared to give them all time, players and coaches. Certainly to the end of the season before flinging the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[thevelourfog]

2 hours ago, Blue Moon said:

Foo Fighters? Not even English, let alone London. Is it because we hired Dave Grohl's physio? Or because Petr Cech plays drums to their songs? I've had to miss the last two matches, so I'vem issed this dubious pleasure - which song?

Not a fan, so don't know. Just recognise Grohl's voice. Think one of the lyrics is "one of these things is not like the other" or "one last thing before" something something. 

34 minutes ago, east lower said:

I suspect our team are doing what they’re told to do and it’s not working.

Coaching is so much more than being told what to do though, isn't it. It's about how you get players to practice what they've been told to do, until it becomes muscle memory and second nature. How you communicate the message to them, get them to internalise it, and practice it in a way that doesn't feel dull or switch them off.

I suspect they're trying to do what they're told, but they just aren't being told how or what to do in a way that works. 

[martin1905]

30 minutes ago, east lower said:

 

The evidence is in front of our eyes and it’s got the essence of AVB all over it.  It’s ok giving things time, if you can see signs of improvement. Not many to see, in my opinion.

 

Two parts of that, first and foremost you need to see signs of improvement when the change is made. Yes it may take time and yes it may be gradual but the entire point if changing managers is to improve.

Secondly, as that didn't happen, you want to see signs of improvement from where we have ended up under the current manager. There are literally none. I wouldn't necessarily say it's getting worse, can't really, but it's got to such a low level that each game now I'm thinking we must see something, anything and literally nothing.

And this is the problem.

Not only have we not improved, that's ok to an extent with everything that's happened, we have gotten so much worse it's embarrassing. Were not talking just a little bit we are talking from averaging 1.94 ppg, under Tuchel,  which would average 74 points a season and enough to finish 3rd in 4 of the last 5 seasons to 1.33 ppg which would average 50 points a season which is pretty much 12th every year.

It's amazing really 

 

 

 

[martin1905]

15 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

I'm amazed at your argument. According to you Potter should have been making subs after 10 minutes? Rather than giving the players time to gel? I suppose you're a child of the Abramovich school of thought and you see any alternative approach to club ownership where people are allowed time to orientate themselves to new surroundings as a sign of weakness. Your way of doing things means we don't have deBruyne or Salah playing for us. And yes I realise the Roman empire was very successful for us however bear in mind it arose from a stable spine of Cech, Terry, Lampard and Drogba from which the ephemeral ornaments were allowed to come and go. I'm prepared to give them all time, players and coaches. Certainly to the end of the season before flinging the baby out with the bathwater.

 

You are so patronising it's unbelievable.

'Have no idea.'

'Might as well support Arsenal'

'A child of the Abramovich school of thought.'

You really should tone it down and not get so angry when people don't agree with you. Really is no need for you tone. 

New forum, same old Holymoly.

[Sciatika]

I liked what I saw of Madueke, Fernandez and  Fofana. Sterling, James, Chillwell, Kepa, Silva and Badiasjhile also played well. All of those should be starting next game I'd bring Mudryk off the bench when the opposition are tired, at least until he is fully fit. Mount and Havertz need a break. 

Also, glad I don't support Fulham.

[Miguelito07]

At least we’re not conceding 😞

I watched the second half and we looked quite poor. No control of the match. Did like Enzo though. 

Also, I love Gallagher’s energy but it feels that the ball is running away from him - always. Doesn’t have much composure on the ball