Chelsea Sack Graham Potter

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, boratsbrother said:

Fans were seeing some signs of progress, especially after the Dortmund game. Now, one match later it's all doom and gloom again and Potter must go.

What we've seen so far has been disappointing, frustrating and downright awful at tines, but I was always expecting some backward steps before we start moving forward again. 

I think we all were.

We've been given a demonstration of tumbling and back flips of Olympic proportion

[CarefreeMuratcan]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

So training hasn't been cancelled by reports, the plan is to give the players two days off. 

Can't help but think that had this been Mourinho, Conte, Tuchel or virtually any other manager we'd be seeing extra work being put in to rectify our situation, not providing two days of rest.

Watched a video of Mikel a few days ago saying that they used to take training very seriously, have fights etc. as if they were real games. 

[exiledblue]

How can you continue to lose and keep saying 'thats the way it is' Where is his pride, passion and direction.

Perhaps he really is waiting to be sacked.

Perhaps Boehly is working on his replacement and he knows.

[martin1905]

11 minutes ago, exiledblue said:

How can you continue to lose and keep saying 'thats the way it is' Where is his pride, passion and direction.

Perhaps he really is waiting to be sacked.

Perhaps Boehly is working on his replacement and he knows.

I don't think there is any doubt that the board will be looking for and possibly talking to replacements. There is no way he will be here for the start of next season. 

The only really question is do we sack him now and bring in someone short term until we can get the right man in the summer or do we just amble on as we are. The answer is obvious but doesn't seem to be what the board want, 4 managers in 12 months and that is sort of understandable. 

Or it could be that, based on the type of incentive based contract's we seem to have given the players the same applies to the manager. Maybe there is something that allows us to part ways at the end of the season, if he doesn't meet targets, that saves us a fortune. Don't think that can be ruled out as they have taken a different stance to the norm when it comes to contracts and things that effect FFP.

 

[ROTG]

24 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

I don't think there is any doubt that the board will be looking for and possibly talking to replacements. There is no way he will be here for the start of next season. 

The only really question is do we sack him now and bring in someone short term until we can get the right man in the summer or do we just amble on as we are. The answer is obvious but doesn't seem to be what the board want, 4 managers in 12 months and that is sort of understandable. 

Or it could be that, based on the type of incentive based contract's we seem to have given the players the same applies to the manager. Maybe there is something that allows us to part ways at the end of the season, if he doesn't meet targets, that saves us a fortune. Don't think that can be ruled out as they have taken a different stance to the norm when it comes to contracts and things that effect FFP.

 

Hate to say this. 
if team GP loose the next two PL matches and Dortmund. I suspect the panic button will be hit as our position in the PL will be precariously close to the relegation bunch and would not be surprised to see team Tubby back until the summer.
 

the squad lacks structure, discipline something you know Tubby will implement from day one.

FFs playing a £10m striker from Norway in a critical must win match is something you do at Brighton and get away with it. 

[CarefreeMuratcan]

6 minutes ago, ROTG said:

 and would not be surprised to see team Tubby back until the summer.
 

the squad lacks structure, discipline something you know Tubby will implement from day one.

Perish the thought. 

[xceleryx]

1 hour ago, boratsbrother said:

Fans were seeing some signs of progress, especially after the Dortmund game. Now, one match later it's all doom and gloom again and Potter must go.

What we've seen so far has been disappointing, frustrating and downright awful at tines, but I was always expecting some backward steps before we start moving forward again. 

Were we? I certainly haven't seen progress being made. Let's not mix up the difference between progression and better isolated performances, which is exactly what the Dortmund game was. Even with that, and I believe I said something on this at the time, but we do better in the more open games - which is exactly what the Dortmund fixture was. When it comes to actually playing sides that organise themselves and make the midfield tight and competitive we fall to pieces. 

Of course, but there's a backwards steps towards with signs of encouragement and progression and going straight up backwards as a whole, which is where we currently reside.

[thevelourfog]

10 hours ago, xceleryx said:

No one is expecting Potter to pull up trees, but there still needs to be some sort of progression being made across the board. We've virtually gone backwards in every area during his tenure. 

Not virtually, we are worse in every meaningful way.

I'm not a Potter fan, and while I'm not calling for him to go that's purely because I don't think it's realistic or that there's much of a way through this mess other than hanging on until May. I'd definitely rather he wasn't here. But any argument for him going based just on results is just as flawed as any argument for him staying on the basis that anyone would struggle with the scale of the job. The problem with Potter is not that we aren't excelling. We were never going to this season. The problem is that we are an absolute car crash, in prolonged relegation form. A team adapting to a new set of ideas would be fluctuating from week to week, looking inconsistent. We are consistently awful. I'm 38 this year, reckon I properly started following football at 8 or 9, and I don't think I have ever seen any Premier League manager at any club go from this sort of form to the sort of form we'd want and need to be in, say, in a year. It really would be unprecedented.

3 hours ago, xceleryx said:

So training hasn't been cancelled by reports, the plan is to give the players two days off. 

Absolutely baffling from the outside. There must be some logic to it, but what I'm seeing from the stands is a unprepared, disorganised team with a few players lacking fitness/sharpness. So a group that needs, if anything, more intense training. It doesn't look like overall fatigue, like a rest is needed.

[Holymoly]

When Potter was given the job I think there was the unspoken understanding that he was not a direct replacement for Tuchel experience-wise and that he would need to be given time to develop himself as a manager of a blue chip football club. To that extent I expect him to be given more time than is usual to sort himself out, as I think that is the issue here, it is not the players so much as himself. In his favour the finances allow little difference between 7th and 17th. If you're out of Europe then it makes little odds where you come in the league as long as you aren't relegated. However, if he misses out on Europe then he has to be able to show positive development as a manager. To date, for whatever reason, there is no sign of that at the coalface of matchday notwithstanding anything that goes on behind the scenes that we are not privvy to. The one thing he has got going for him is that there is no obvious long term successor out there.

When you are given £5m a year does that blunt your motivation? Probably. Perhaps he needs to be given warning by the board of some sort of jeopardy in order to focus his mind. At the moment he remains Graeme Potter, former manager of Ostersund, Swansea and Brighton. He has not yet earned the epithet of manager of the former world champions.

As of today he is adrift in 10th place. I don't believe that will be good enough if we are still there at the end of the season as it will have demonstrated no forward progress. If the trigger is pulled before that he will only have himself to blame.

[ROTG]

59 minutes ago, CarefreeMuratcan said:

Perish the thought. 

Regardless 

he got us to third and CL qualification and won the Europa Cup

The squad lacks discipline. 

[martin1905]

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

Hate to say this. 
if team GP loose the next two PL matches and Dortmund. I suspect the panic button will be hit as our position in the PL will be precariously close to the relegation bunch and would not be surprised to see team Tubby back until the summer.
 

the squad lacks structure, discipline something you know Tubby will implement from day one.

FFs playing a £10m striker from Norway in a critical must win match is something you do at Brighton and get away with it. 

I was so against Benitez the first time round, openly booed him, only time I've ever done that to anyone related to Chelsea and sang the songs about him and would do exactly the same if he ever set foot inside the bridge again. 

My worry is well beyond where we finish in the league this season, coming 10th or 17th doesn't really make much difference and luckily Tuchel left us with 10 points so we should just about stay up, even if this form carries on.

The bigger concern to me is the long term effect him staying will have on us. Mount may well leave, Felix won't want to stay. Mudryk and Madueke need nurturing and developing and they are just thrown in the deep end with no idea of how to get the best out of them.

Lewis Hall looked so good in his first couple of appearances and his last couple were shocking, he's now nowhere to be seen.

Chuckwuemeka is not getting a look in at the moment and he looks a real talent. He's done well whenever he comes on yet all of a sudden nothing.

Fofana finally gets a go and is hooked off at half time for no reason.

This is after the initial few games where we saw Sterling and Pulisic laying wing backs. 

The damage he is doing will be far more than just finishing mid table for one season.

[xceleryx]

4 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Not virtually, we are worse in every meaningful way.

I'm not a Potter fan, and while I'm not calling for him to go that's purely because I don't think it's realistic or that there's much of a way through this mess other than hanging on until May. I'd definitely rather he wasn't here. But any argument for him going based just on results is just as flawed as any argument for him staying on the basis that anyone would struggle with the scale of the job. The problem with Potter is not that we aren't excelling. We were never going to this season. The problem is that we are an absolute car crash, in prolonged relegation form. A team adapting to a new set of ideas would be fluctuating from week to week, looking inconsistent. We are consistently awful. I'm 38 this year, reckon I properly started following football at 8 or 9, and I don't think I have ever seen any Premier League manager at any club go from this sort of form to the sort of form we'd want and need to be in, say, in a year. It really would be unprecedented.

I'm not sure I'd agree with there not being a way through this mess until May. I think if ownership turned around tomorrow and fired Potter and someone else came in, even in a caretaker type role until the summer, we'd see some improvement. Maybe that's due to the bar now being so low, but it's hard to see anyone come in and take us lower. The summer would allow for a more through fix to be hard however. We're of a similar age and one of the only real comparison I can draw of recent time is West Ham under Moyes currently. They finished 7th last season and now sit in the relegation places. Outside of that though it's a struggle, especially when it comes to one of the "Big 6" teams. 

4 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Absolutely baffling from the outside. There must be some logic to it, but what I'm seeing from the stands is a unprepared, disorganised team with a few players lacking fitness/sharpness. So a group that needs, if anything, more intense training. It doesn't look like overall fatigue, like a rest is needed.

Not sure logic comes into play when dissecting Potters decisions. We played 3 games in 7 days, which isn't particularly new for a Champions League side. From the side that played vs Southampton only Mount, Kepa and Azpilicueta started and have played 1000 league minutes this season for us. With Enzo and Badiashile the only others who have 1000 league minutes or more if taking their Benfica and Monaco spells into account. Not sure how much rest this team needs given the playing time most have managed this season, which goes on to make the two days off even more perplexing. 

[ROTG]

17 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

I was so against Benitez the first time round, openly booed him, only time I've ever done that to anyone related to Chelsea and sang the songs about him and would do exactly the same if he ever set foot inside the bridge again. 

My worry is well beyond where we finish in the league this season, coming 10th or 17th doesn't really make much difference and luckily Tuchel left us with 10 points so we should just about stay up, even if this form carries on.

The bigger concern to me is the long term effect him staying will have on us. Mount may well leave, Felix won't want to stay. Mudryk and Madueke need nurturing and developing and they are just thrown in the deep end with no idea of how to get the best out of them.

Lewis Hall looked so good in his first couple of appearances and his last couple were shocking, he's now nowhere to be seen.

Chuckwuemeka is not getting a look in at the moment and he looks a real talent. He's done well whenever he comes on yet all of a sudden nothing.

Fofana finally gets a go and is hooked off at half time for no reason.

This is after the initial few games where we saw Sterling and Pulisic laying wing backs. 

The damage he is doing will be far more than just finishing mid table for one season.

You are spot on. 

I asked the same question many times to Team GP supporters on this forum.  Did they honestly believe Team GP could coach a team to a minimum 75 points in the PL. 

I can remember every getting a response. 
 

It would be interesting to hear PaulW66 point of view 

[Mark Kelly]

We'd  all do different things if we got the job and I'm sure no one way is better than the other but if I was in charge I'd be sitting them all down and having a "council of war" laying down the bare minimum targets for players to adhere to .

Don't want to sign your new contract? Train with the kids , Sorry Mason and Mendy , your games stink at the moment have some time to reflect what this club means to you and what the levels are 

Ziyech , you want out ? We want you out , off you pop to the kiddies table.

Mudryk, Mads , James , Sterling , Chilwell , Fofana , you need conditioning , so you don't get a day off , you're doing extra work to bring you up to match sharpness.

Stick with a formation and a set starting eleven of your best players , the maximum anyone would be playing is twice a week which should be relatively easy for everyone.

Practise set pieces , have an idea , any idea what to do when we have a corner or free kick , have a designated long and short range free kick taker , none of this "after you Claude" nonsense , drill them so they know and don't have to guess.

Show some passion , not insanity like some but show them you mean business and are a winner and if they want to be a part of it then they have to as well .

None of this is rocket science and some of it , as it's my opinion only , may be absolute rubbish in a modern sports science context but something has to change and I honestly don't believe giving players , half of whom are not remotely match sharp two days off is the way to fix things. 

 

[RDCW]

6 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

We'd  all do different things if we got the job and I'm sure no one way is better than the other but if I was in charge I'd be sitting them all down and having a "council of war" laying down the bare minimum targets for players to adhere to .

Don't want to sign your new contract? Train with the kids , Sorry Mason and Mendy , your games stink at the moment have some time to reflect what this club means to you and what the levels are 

Ziyech , you want out ? We want you out , off you pop to the kiddies table.

Mudryk, Mads , James , Sterling , Chilwell , Fofana , you need conditioning , so you don't get a day off , you're doing extra work to bring you up to match sharpness.

Stick with a formation and a set starting eleven of your best players , the maximum anyone would be playing is twice a week which should be relatively easy for everyone.

Practise set pieces , have an idea , any idea what to do when we have a corner or free kick , have a designated long and short range free kick taker , none of this "after you Claude" nonsense , drill them so they know and don't have to guess.

Show some passion , not insanity like some but show them you mean business and are a winner and if they want to be a part of it then they have to as well .

None of this is rocket science and some of it , as it's my opinion only , may be absolute rubbish in a modern sports science context but something has to change and I honestly don't believe giving players , half of whom are not remotely match sharp two days off is the way to fix things. 

 

It ain't rocket science is it? You are spot on with this and surely there is no rational argument against it. 

[RDCW]

1 hour ago, thevelourfog said:

Not virtually, we are worse in every meaningful way.

I'm not a Potter fan, and while I'm not calling for him to go that's purely because I don't think it's realistic or that there's much of a way through this mess other than hanging on until May. I'd definitely rather he wasn't here. But any argument for him going based just on results is just as flawed as any argument for him staying on the basis that anyone would struggle with the scale of the job. The problem with Potter is not that we aren't excelling. We were never going to this season. The problem is that we are an absolute car crash, in prolonged relegation form. A team adapting to a new set of ideas would be fluctuating from week to week, looking inconsistent. We are consistently awful. I'm 38 this year, reckon I properly started following football at 8 or 9, and I don't think I have ever seen any Premier League manager at any club go from this sort of form to the sort of form we'd want and need to be in, say, in a year. It really would be unprecedented.

Absolutely baffling from the outside. There must be some logic to it, but what I'm seeing from the stands is a unprepared, disorganised team with a few players lacking fitness/sharpness. So a group that needs, if anything, more intense training. It doesn't look like overall fatigue, like a rest is needed.

Too right. What we need is MORE training, not less. This wishy washy regime is doing my head in.

[xceleryx]

14 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

We'd  all do different things if we got the job and I'm sure no one way is better than the other but if I was in charge I'd be sitting them all down and having a "council of war" laying down the bare minimum targets for players to adhere to .

Don't want to sign your new contract? Train with the kids , Sorry Mason and Mendy , your games stink at the moment have some time to reflect what this club means to you and what the levels are 

Ziyech , you want out ? We want you out , off you pop to the kiddies table.

Mudryk, Mads , James , Sterling , Chilwell , Fofana , you need conditioning , so you don't get a day off , you're doing extra work to bring you up to match sharpness.

Stick with a formation and a set starting eleven of your best players , the maximum anyone would be playing is twice a week which should be relatively easy for everyone.

Practise set pieces , have an idea , any idea what to do when we have a corner or free kick , have a designated long and short range free kick taker , none of this "after you Claude" nonsense , drill them so they know and don't have to guess.

Show some passion , not insanity like some but show them you mean business and are a winner and if they want to be a part of it then they have to as well .

None of this is rocket science and some of it , as it's my opinion only , may be absolute rubbish in a modern sports science context but something has to change and I honestly don't believe giving players , half of whom are not remotely match sharp two days off is the way to fix things. 

 

Hard to argue much of this.

The mentality of this group, including Potter, needs to change first and foremost. Part of me would be genuinely curious what a Mourinho, Conte or Tuchel would do with such a group in this regard. They're in serious need of some tough love and a swift foot up their ass. The standard needs to be set high. 

[kev61]

48 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

I was so against Benitez the first time round, openly booed him, only time I've ever done that to anyone related to Chelsea and sang the songs about him and would do exactly the same if he ever set foot inside the bridge again. 

My worry is well beyond where we finish in the league this season, coming 10th or 17th doesn't really make much difference and luckily Tuchel left us with 10 points so we should just about stay up, even if this form carries on.

The bigger concern to me is the long term effect him staying will have on us. Mount may well leave, Felix won't want to stay. Mudryk and Madueke need nurturing and developing and they are just thrown in the deep end with no idea of how to get the best out of them.

Lewis Hall looked so good in his first couple of appearances and his last couple were shocking, he's now nowhere to be seen.

Chuckwuemeka is not getting a look in at the moment and he looks a real talent. He's done well whenever he comes on yet all of a sudden nothing.

Fofana finally gets a go and is hooked off at half time for no reason.

This is after the initial few games where we saw Sterling and Pulisic laying wing backs. 

The damage he is doing will be far more than just finishing mid table for one season.

The best argument to why he should be sacked imo - an argument well put.

Like many people though I've still got one cheek on the fence for reasons many people have outlined here.

[Blue Moon]

58 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

I was so against Benitez the first time round, openly booed him, only time I've ever done that to anyone related to Chelsea and sang the songs about him and would do exactly the same if he ever set foot inside the bridge again. 

Agreed, so did I - more because of his personality than his ability though. However, towards the end of his stay, I was becoming reconciled to his existence. His personality was still as revolting as ever, but he was getting the team to play ... as a team .... again. I even developed a grudging admiration of his ability to let the abuse wash over him - few of us could handle 40,000 people united in their loathing of us as an individual - while continuing to focus on what mattered. Were he to return, I'd probably feel the same way - an initial revulsion, but eventually grudging respect. After all, I don't care about him, I just care about Chelsea FC, and if he could get us back on track then that is a bitter pill I would swallow.

[CarefreeMuratcan]

Own up to the mistake and bring Tuchel back. 

[Thiago97]

16 minutes ago, CarefreeMuratcan said:

Own up to the mistake and bring Tuchel back. 

If we follow the pattern Tuchel's last 50 games and use those 50 games as a guide and average for this season. We would have another 12pts on top of what we have now, which would have us in 4th place 1pt above Spurs.

Clearly, this is a very rough guide and does not take into account how other teams points we have played may differ. Whilst we would clearly love and accept that now, if we were in that situation. I suspect we might be a little disappointed.

This is not a dig at Tuchel as I think he is a very good manager. I felt he deserved more time, but we did see a slight downward trajectory in his 2nd 50 games, compared with his first 50 games.

 

[xceleryx]

14 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

If we follow the pattern Tuchel's last 50 games and use those 50 games as a guide and average for this season. We would have another 12pts on top of what we have now, which would have us in 4th place 1pt above Spurs.

Clearly, this is a very rough guide and does not take into account how other teams points we have played may differ. Whilst we would clearly love and accept that now, if we were in that situation. I suspect we might be a little disappointed.

This is not a dig at Tuchel as I think he is a very good manager. I felt he deserved more time, but we did see a slight downward trajectory in his 2nd 50 games, compared with his first 50 games.

 

We did, but that was always a likely occurrence because what Tuchel extracted from the group at hand during his first 50 games was never likely to be sustainable. We needed personnel changes that just didn't come, in the end the group returned to their median levels and the performances begun to showcase greater inconsistency. If Tuchel had the side currently in place right now then I'm fairly confident we'd have seen more progression being made. 

[Holymoly]

The bottom line is that in the modern day when you look at the biggest most successful clubs in the world every one of them are managed by experienced, successful coaches. You could argue Erik ten Hag and Arteta buck this trend but on the other hand they seem to have turned around the fortunes of their clubs and will be knocking on the door of elite managers if they can replicate this over successive seasons.

We have tried to do the same with Graeme Potter. We've given him a 5 year contract but that doesn't mean he has been given 5 years to sort out the squad. If there is no improvement he WILL eventually be sacked. When that is will be governed to a certain extent by what is happening behind the scenes and how he answers the questions the board will begin throwing at him.

We are a huge club in world football and we have to be managed by one of the top ten managers. If Graeme Potter cannot develop into such an individual then he will need to be replaced. Bear in mind we are no longer constrained by who we have empolyed in the past as we have new owners and new players. With the exception of Tuchel it's a clean slate for any manager in the world.

[Bison]

Still here then? Standards continue to fall.

If a run of 2 wins in 15 games being capped off with a home defeat to the worst team in the division isn't enough to see him get sacked then I don't know what will do the trick.

[Holymoly]

Shockingly, back in October of last year Graeme Potter was ranked #8 by FourFourTwo in the top 50 managers of world football, ahead of Simeone and Nagelsmann, one behing Tuchel. I wonder where he would rank now? Possibly just above Magnus Powell?