Chelsea Sack Graham Potter

[Trini_Blue]

5 minutes ago, Michael Tucker said:

Quick question: How does the club 'make it work financially' without the CL income? 

I would assume we can generate more revenue through a new sponsorship deal, a more commercialized pre-season tour, probably work on selling more merchandize with all these new players and also we can reduce operating costs by measures such as reducing wages by moving on players on high wages and selling some valuable players like Pulisic, Gallagher, Ziyech, Koulibaly, Cucurella, Hudson Odoi and Lukaku.

I'm no financial expert. I'm just speculating.

[Michael Tucker]

^^^^^^

Sorry mate, but these are all if's and maybe's. Losing the CL income leaves a big hole that doesn't get fixed that easily, or that quickly.

[Trini_Blue]

2 minutes ago, Michael Tucker said:

^^^^^^

Sorry mate, but these are all if's and maybe's. Losing the CL income leaves a big hole that doesn't get fixed that easily, or that quickly.

These are finance guys running the club. Creative accounting can be really useful. I really don't think they would be so relaxed if that doom and gloom scenario was likely. They would most likely have fired Potter by now to get a short term fixer in place to chase down the top 4. 

[Ham]

4 minutes ago, Michael Tucker said:

^^^^^^

Sorry mate, but these are all if's and maybe's. Losing the CL income leaves a big hole that doesn't get fixed that easily, or that quickly.

The new owners famously revealed that we have about a dozen sponsors whilst our competitors have 30+. 

More and better sponsorships could very easily plug the hole to the point where CL money would be a bonus. 

I get it that we can't afford to be out of the CL for more than one season as this would have an impact on our marketability.

[Michael Tucker]

Just now, Trini_Blue said:

These are finance guys running the club. Creative accounting can be really useful. I really don't think they would be so relaxed if that doom and gloom scenario was likely. They would most likely have fired Potter by now to get a short term fixer in place to chase down the top 4. 

Who  said that anyone is 'relaxed' ? And I'm sorry, but 'employing 'creative accounting' to bury the issue isn't useful, it's insane!

And what i was pointing out wasn't a 'doom and gloom' scenario, just the reality of our current situation.

[Trini_Blue]

3 minutes ago, Michael Tucker said:

Who  said that anyone is 'relaxed' ? And I'm sorry, but 'employing 'creative accounting' to bury the issue isn't useful, it's insane!

And what i was pointing out wasn't a 'doom and gloom' scenario, just the reality of our current situation.

Have a look at the FFP rules. I just did, and I don't think its an immediate issue should we fail to get into the UCL next year. 

[Michael Tucker]

21 minutes ago, Trini_Blue said:

Have a look at the FFP rules

I have done. Numerous times. So?

21 minutes ago, Trini_Blue said:

 I don't think its an immediate issue should we fail to get into the UCL next year. 

Sorry, but an immediate issue for who? You? Probably not. For the club it's dramatic loss in income, that has to be made up somewhere else. That 'immediate'

[Trini_Blue]

1 hour ago, Michael Tucker said:

I have done. Numerous times. So?

Sorry, but an immediate issue for who? You? Probably not. For the club it's dramatic loss in income, that has to be made up somewhere else. That 'immediate'

You asked where we would make up for this dramatic loss of income. I suggested where it could be made up "somewhere". 

If your mind is already made up on the subject there really is no need to keep asking questions on it, is there?

[Michael Tucker]

11 minutes ago, Trini_Blue said:

You asked where we would make up for this dramatic loss of income. I suggested where it could be made up "somewhere". 

Quite. I rest my case.

11 minutes ago, Trini_Blue said:

If your mind is already made up on the subject there really is no need to keep asking questions on it, is there?

My mind's not 'made up', and I'll ask as many questions as I like, thank you.

[martin1905]

Seems a pretty pointless argument where lots of people have nailed their colours to the mast that we are stuck with him for the season and that is that.

Well I said weeks ago the atmosphere at the bridge was changing, you could see it, hear it,  feel it and it has gradually got worse and worse. Saturday was awful, I've never experienced such a hostile atmosphere and I'm not talking about the booing, it was the whole thing, before after and during the game in the pubs, around the ground, on the tube, it was everywhere. It was nasty, there was a horrible vibe around the whole place with people angry and not afraid to air their views. And air them loudly.

If we do not go on a run of 7, 8, 10 games unbeaten nothing will change. We may smash Tottenham at the weekend, beat Leeds and Dortmund, no way we do any of that, but the next bad result the hostility will come back. We need a prolonged run of very good performances and results for anything to change and it's just not going to happen.

Some say it doesn't matter, the owner's won't care and they may not in isolation but when everything is as bad as it it, the awful performances, the shocking results, players not renewing contracts, the financial implications of it all and the entire fan base turning they have no choice. Maybe he sees the season out, maybe not, no-one knows but he is a dead man walking and I guarantee things, from the match going fans point of view are going to get much worse. 

I predicted at the beginning of January he would be gone post Dortmund. I hoped it would be before it as we had a genuine chance if winning it, with a proper manager, but thought they would give him a chance himself. Lose that game and that could well be that.

Talk of Pochettino turning us down, people probably don't want to believe it because it doesn't fit with what they are saying, they'd much rather believe the nonsense the club have briefed Matt Law, but I think it's much more likely that we have spoken to him than not, be it for now or next season. Incredibly naive to think otherwise.

[Holymoly]

8 hours ago, Ham said:

The new owners famously revealed that we have about a dozen sponsors whilst our competitors have 30+. 

Don't forget that most jumped ship when Abramovich was targetted. I'm assuming we have yet to replace all (or any) of them?

[Mark Kelly]

[Holymoly]

4 hours ago, martin1905 said:

Well I said weeks ago the atmosphere at the bridge was changing

It's a shame we can't be as voiciferous when things are going well. Stamford Bridge needs a complete overhaul if we are to provide any sort fortress mentality. I guess this is the downside of being in the posh end of London. Far too many of the prawn sandwich brigade have this self entitlement thing going on.

[Mark Kelly]

6 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

It's a shame we can't be as vociferous when things are going well. Stamford Bridge needs a complete overhaul if we are to provide any sort fortress mentality. I guess this is the downside of being in the posh end of London. Far too many of the prawn sandwich brigade have this self entitlement thing going on.

We need a blue wall to rival Dortmund's yellow wall , having half the Shed end inhabited by away fans is just daft , I can understand why the club has to do it but any renovation project should keep this in mind.

[thevelourfog]

11 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Well all the word coming out of the club is that they do listen to fans voices very closely.

Reports like this seem to confirm what I'm saying is true.

 

 

With respect, reports "confirm" nothing. Especially when they use such mealy-mouthed language. I mean, what does this tweet actually say? That the owners would rather the supporters were happy? Hardly bleeding edge stuff. Isn't the tweet you posted "confirmation" the owners don't want to sack Potter?

4 hours ago, martin1905 said:

Some say it doesn't matter, the owner's won't care and they may not in isolation but when everything is as bad as it it, the awful performances, the shocking results, players not renewing contracts, the financial implications of it all and the entire fan base turning they have no choice. Maybe he sees the season out, maybe not, no-one knows but he is a dead man walking and I guarantee things, from the match going fans point of view are going to get much worse. 

I completely agree the feeling around the ground was terrible on Saturday. I agree it's going to get much worse; ai think there's no chance of us getting a result from even one of our next three games, never mind going on a run. Even scoring a goal seems beyond us. I also agree Potter has no long term future here and it's really just a matter of time, imo most likely until there is a succession plan and it feels politically expedient to the owners to pull the trigger. Which I don't see being this season, but I do accept falling down the table to 13th/14th so our relegation battling form is matched by our position could be a trigger ... It would be unprecedented for us, so impossible to know what any owner would do in that situation. 

What I don't see is why anyone would be convinced a toxic atmosphere would influence what the owners do. I'm at risk of repeating myself here so will leave at this ... There is no prior behaviour from the owners that suggests they especially care what we think about who our coach is, nor much evidence in the PL of any club making decisions on coaching personnel based on supporter preferences. Anyone can believe what they want, and can believe a toxic atmosphere will compel Boehly into action, that's fine. There just isn't an evidence that is the case. None.

[Blue Moon]

48 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

With respect, reports "confirm" nothing. Especially when they use such mealy-mouthed language. I mean, what does this tweet actually say? That the owners would rather the supporters were happy? Hardly bleeding edge stuff. Isn't the tweet you posted "confirmation" the owners don't want to sack Potter?

I completely agree the feeling around the ground was terrible on Saturday. I agree it's going to get much worse; ai think there's no chance of us getting a result from even one of our next three games, never mind going on a run. Even scoring a goal seems beyond us. I also agree Potter has no long term future here and it's really just a matter of time, imo most likely until there is a succession plan and it feels politically expedient to the owners to pull the trigger. Which I don't see being this season, but I do accept falling down the table to 13th/14th so our relegation battling form is matched by our position could be a trigger ... It would be unprecedented for us, so impossible to know what any owner would do in that situation. 

What I don't see is why anyone would be convinced a toxic atmosphere would influence what the owners do. I'm at risk of repeating myself here so will leave at this ... There is no prior behaviour from the owners that suggests they especially care what we think about who our coach is, nor much evidence in the PL of any club making decisions on coaching personnel based on supporter preferences. Anyone can believe what they want, and can believe a toxic atmosphere will compel Boehly into action, that's fine. There just isn't an evidence that is the case. None.

If months of “we don’t care about Rafa …” didn’t shift RA, then I suspect you’re right. It won’t shift TB. Although I’m not convinced Potter has the same inner steel as Rafa….

[Max Fowler]

48 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

With respect, reports "confirm" nothing. Especially when they use such mealy-mouthed language. I mean, what does this tweet actually say? That the owners would rather the supporters were happy? Hardly bleeding edge stuff. Isn't the tweet you posted "confirmation" the owners don't want to sack Potter?

What I don't see is why anyone would be convinced a toxic atmosphere would influence what the owners do. I'm at risk of repeating myself here so will leave at this ... There is no prior behaviour from the owners that suggests they especially care what we think about who our coach is, nor much evidence in the PL of any club making decisions on coaching personnel based on supporter preferences. Anyone can believe what they want, and can believe a toxic atmosphere will compel Boehly into action, that's fine. There just isn't an evidence that is the case. None.

I am not sure why you need to be so black and white about this.

There's clearly countless examples where the supporters influenced owner decisions - Nathan Jones at Southampton the most recent, perhaps Arsene Wenger the most prominent. It's just untrue that there's no evidence that this has an effect. If the whole mood around the club and it's fans goes sour, the situation becomes untenable within the club.

I'm sorry you didn't like my quote - I thought it was widely understood that Boehly was keen to be in touch with the fans and their opinions. He is active on Twitter, following Chelsea fan accounts, and definitely not the ultra-private, disconnected Malcolm Glazer or even Roman Abramovich, who seemingly made his own calls regardless of fans.

Of course, Boehly is also hard-headed, egotistical, and believes in his vision. Therefore, he wants to try and win the fans back over and again has apparently earmarked the next three games as a chance to do so (again, I can find the quotes). I could easily argue that Boehly doesn't care about the fans and is driving us off a cliff with Potter - I want him gone too.

The reality is actually - Boehly cares a lot what the fans think but also trusts himself deeply and also doesn't want to eject Potter without a succession plan already in place. But the fans and the atmosphere are undoubtedly impacting him. They just have to be. Again - even with the Glazers this is the case. I think Boehly is much more tuned in than they ever were.

 

[thevelourfog]

3 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I am not sure why you need to be so black and white about this.

There's clearly countless examples where the supporters influenced owner decisions - Nathan Jones at Southampton the most recent, perhaps Arsene Wenger the most prominent. It's just untrue that there's no evidence that this has an effect. If the whole mood around the club and it's fans goes sour, the situation becomes untenable within the club.

I'm sorry you didn't like my quote - I thought it was widely understood that Boehly was keen to be in touch with the fans and their opinions. He is active on Twitter, following Chelsea fan accounts, and definitely not the ultra-private, disconnected Malcolm Glazer or even Roman Abramovich, who seemingly made his own calls regardless of fans.

Of course, Boehly is also hard-headed, egotistical, and believes in his vision. Therefore, he wants to try and win the fans back over and again has apparently earmarked the next three games as a chance to do so (again, I can find the quotes). I could easily argue that Boehly doesn't care about the fans and is driving us off a cliff with Potter - I want him gone too.

The reality is actually - Boehly cares a lot what the fans think but also trusts himself deeply and also doesn't want to eject Potter without a succession plan already in place. But the fans and the atmosphere are undoubtedly impacting him. They just have to be. Again - even with the Glazers this is the case. I think Boehly is much more tuned in than they ever were.

The bit in bold is you believing what you want. And using Boehly's briefing to the press, which you are very appropriately and astutely dubious of when it relates to other matters (imo) as the basis for this. You are literally the only person I have ever heard verbalise this "wide understanding" that Boehly takes a particular interest in what supporters think. It really isn't a well held position I'm out of step with, and it's a big leap from liking a few posts on social media (can go down loads of tangents here, but I'd not even be that confident he runs his own social media accounts, certainly lots of people in his position don't). The bloke sacked Tuchel a few days after supporter's held a massive, self-funded Tuchel tifo across the Shed!

Wenger is perhaps the perfect example of owners not caring what fans think, not an example of fan power. He'd have been gone years earlier if they did, and his exit was precipitated much more by changes to Arsenal's board and ownership. I won't claim to have my finger on the pulse of Southampton supporters, but from the outside a look at Jones's results seem the obvious and most significant reason for his sacking.

I'm not being "black and white". It is a surprise to me that there'd be much push back to the idea that club owners aren't that driven by club supporters. With very few exceptions, that is the story of modern English football.

None of which really matters. At some point, I think not soon enough but I'm confident sooner than Boehly is briefing, Potter will get the sack. And, no snarkiness intended, I'm sure you'll see supporter views as being a significant contributory factor. I'll think it's because we've turned to absolute sh*t under him and an investment will be too threatened.

[Max Fowler]

Mourinho being linked in Italy with a return to us.

Personally I think it would be an excellent appointment - would unite the fans around the club, would likely be short-term but get us back nearer the top end of the league. 

Then look for a top level, longer-term project manager after that.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/football/jose-mourinho-massive-chelsea-return-decision-reached-as-boehly-is-given-huge-graham-potter-headache/ar-AA17KeUr?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=f616196749484200800d8a91a94f62f6

[Mark Kelly]

@Max Fowler

Of course, Boehly is also hard-headed, egotistical, and believes in his vision. Therefore, he wants to try and win the fans back over and again has apparently earmarked the next three games as a chance to do so (again, I can find the quotes).

Can you find the quotes please? I'm keen to see what Todd Boehly has to say and sceptical that they are not the quotes from Todd Boehly and rather some ITK 24 carat berk on Twitter. 

TIA

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, Max Fowler said:

Mourinho being linked in Italy with a return to us.

Personally I think it would be an excellent appointment - would unite the fans around the club, would likely be short-term but get us back nearer the top end of the league. 

Then look for a top level, longer-term project manager after that.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/football/jose-mourinho-massive-chelsea-return-decision-reached-as-boehly-is-given-huge-graham-potter-headache/ar-AA17KeUr?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=f616196749484200800d8a91a94f62f6

Reports in Italy with no quotations whatsoever.

Someone is writing what they want to happen rather than what is actually happening. 

[RDCW]

34 minutes ago, Blue Moon said:

If months of “we don’t care about Rafa …” didn’t shift RA, then I suspect you’re right. It won’t shift TB. Although I’m not convinced Potter has the same inner steel as Rafa….

They did shift Rafa though, didn't they? If we as fans had not utterly rejected him he would have been given the permanent gig having won the Europa League.

[RDCW]

6 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Mourinho being linked in Italy with a return to us.

Personally I think it would be an excellent appointment - would unite the fans around the club, would likely be short-term but get us back nearer the top end of the league. 

Then look for a top level, longer-term project manager after that.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/football/jose-mourinho-massive-chelsea-return-decision-reached-as-boehly-is-given-huge-graham-potter-headache/ar-AA17KeUr?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=f616196749484200800d8a91a94f62f6

It would be a disastrous appointment, like asking Kerry Dixon to lead the line for us now. Jose is yesterday's man.

[Max Fowler]

3 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

The bit in bold is you believing what you want. And using Boehly's briefing to the press, which you are very appropriately and astutely dubious of when it relates to other matters (imo) as the basis for this. You are literally the only person I have ever heard verbalise this "wide understanding" that Boehly takes a particular interest in what supporters think. It really isn't a well held position I'm out of step with, and it's a big leap from liking a few posts on social media (can go down loads of tangents here, but I'd not even be that confident he runs his own social media accounts, certainly lots of people in his position don't). The bloke sacked Tuchel a few days after supporter's held a massive, self-funded Tuchel tifo across the Shed!

Wenger is perhaps the perfect example of owners not caring what fans think, not an example of fan power. He'd have been gone years earlier if they did, and his exit was precipitated much more by changes to Arsenal's board and ownership. I won't claim to have my finger on the pulse of Southampton supporters, but from the outside a look at Jones's results seem the obvious and most significant reason for his sacking.

I'm not being "black and white". It is a surprise to me that there'd be much push back to the idea that club owners aren't that driven by club supporters. With very few exceptions, that is the story of modern English football.

None of which really matters. At some point, I think not soon enough but I'm confident sooner than Boehly is briefing, Potter will get the sack. And, no snarkiness intended, I'm sure you'll see supporter views as being a significant contributory factor. I'll think it's because we've turned to absolute sh*t under him and an investment will be too threatened.

As Ham points out, the sacking of Tuchel seemed to be due to some major falling out and unacceptable behaviour from Tuchel (according to Simon Jordan).  Could Boehly have found a way be more open and sensitive coming in? Yes. Was the sacking because he was ignoring the fans - no. The relationship had just broken down completely and become untenable. 

We'll have to agree to disagree on Wenger. Actually, I think there are similarities because they eventually bowed to massive fan pressure having stubbornly tried to continue with the project against all odds.

And I'm not sure Boehly is "briefing" journos about him being in touch with the fans. He got in trouble the other day for liking a post on Twitter that Cucurella wasn't good enough for Chelsea. That would have never happened with a media team or if Roman was in charge. His briefing is about Potter being the right man for the job and for us to support him.

 

This kind of thing is what I'm talking about. That doesn't read like press briefing to me. That reads like - it's widely understood they are listening to the fans and it's actually challenging their decision to stick with their man.

[Max Fowler]

6 minutes ago, RDCW said:

It would be a disastrous appointment, like asking Kerry Dixon to lead the line for us now. Jose is yesterday's man.

Personally I think it just might work at Chelsea. The connection to the fans is so strong that it might bring the best out of him. But I agree - it's almost certainly not going to work in the long-term.