Chelsea Sack Graham Potter

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, Max Fowler said:

Personally I think it just might work at Chelsea. The connection to the fans is so strong that it might bring the best out of him. But I agree - it's almost certainly not going to work in the long-term.

He'd certainly organise us well enough but I think he may be a tad acerbic for our little princes. 

[RDCW]

11 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

The bit in bold is you believing what you want. And using Boehly's briefing to the press, which you are very appropriately and astutely dubious of when it relates to other matters (imo) as the basis for this. You are literally the only person I have ever heard verbalise this "wide understanding" that Boehly takes a particular interest in what supporters think. It really isn't a well held position I'm out of step with, and it's a big leap from liking a few posts on social media (can go down loads of tangents here, but I'd not even be that confident he runs his own social media accounts, certainly lots of people in his position don't). The bloke sacked Tuchel a few days after supporter's held a massive, self-funded Tuchel tifo across the Shed!

Wenger is perhaps the perfect example of owners not caring what fans think, not an example of fan power. He'd have been gone years earlier if they did, and his exit was precipitated much more by changes to Arsenal's board and ownership. I won't claim to have my finger on the pulse of Southampton supporters, but from the outside a look at Jones's results seem the obvious and most significant reason for his sacking.

I'm not being "black and white". It is a surprise to me that there'd be much push back to the idea that club owners aren't that driven by club supporters. With very few exceptions, that is the story of modern English football.

None of which really matters. At some point, I think not soon enough but I'm confident sooner than Boehly is briefing, Potter will get the sack. And, no snarkiness intended, I'm sure you'll see supporter views as being a significant contributory factor. I'll think it's because we've turned to absolute sh*t under him and an investment will be too threatened.

It's a question of degree. There comes a point where the toxicity present in the matchgoing fans forces the issue and the manager's job becomes untenable : vitriol in the stadium communicates itself to the players on the pitch, performances continue to suffer and the whole environment informs the decision to change the manager; if we genuinely believe the fans have no influence whatever then why do we bother turning up at all?

I agree with yoi that Wenger is a particularly bad example, firstly because their board did ignore the fans for some time and secondly because his situation with Arsenal is about as far from Potter's at Chelsea as it is possible to be: a double Premier League winner, a Double winner and serial Champions League winner, etc v a guy that has brought a very expensively assembled squad to the brink of the relegation battle. Additionally, the Arsenal fanbase was far from unanimous in its desire to get rid of their erstwhile hero.

I think it is quite clear that Boehly thought Potter could weather the storm and that a year's mediocrity would be a satisfactory price to pay for reconstruction and redevelopment; the venomous antipathy which Potter's ineffectual tenure has wrought has foreshortened this horizon of tolerance: If he loses a couple more Boehly will listen to the rage.

[RDCW]

8 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Personally I think it just might work at Chelsea. The connection to the fans is so strong that it might bring the best out of him. But I agree - it's almost certainly not going to work in the long-term.

I'm not sure Jose is as unambiguously adored as this. He has certainly blotted his copybook since his second tenure here, although he may have rehabilitated himself somewhat last year when he claimed he would always be a Chelsea fan. He is never the long term answer though, and never has been, so I'm not sure he would be what Boehly is looking for.

[Max Fowler]

7 minutes ago, RDCW said:

I agree with yoi that Wenger is a particularly bad example, firstly because their board did ignore the fans for some time and secondly because his situation with Arsenal is about as far from Potter's at Chelsea as it is possible to be: a double Premier League winner, a Double winner and serial Champions League winner, etc v a guy that has brought a very expensively assembled squad to the brink of the relegation battle. Additionally, the Arsenal fanbase was far from unanimous in its desire to get rid of their erstwhile hero.

The board are ignoring our fans too right now. And it turned pretty toxic against Wenger by the end.

[Mark Kelly]

 If the consensus of opinion is that Boehly is a "Know nothing Yank" , then surely , regardless of what happens between now and next season , he's made his opinion clear that he believes that Potter is the man for a rebuild and remould of the club ,  to cut Potter adrift before then would surely reinforce that perception of him?

I cannot see him allowing that .

[Max Fowler]

2 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

 If the consensus of opinion is that Boehly is a "Know nothing Yank" , then surely , regardless of what happens between now and next season , he's made his opinion clear that he believes that Potter is the man for a rebuild and remould of the club ,  to cut Potter adrift before then would surely reinforce that perception of him?

I cannot see him allowing that .

It shows intelligence to realise you made a mistake and address it.

I believe some of the fans are getting restless at not being listened to and a sense nothing will change.

In other news - emergency meeting held with Potter and staff:

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/chelsea-fc-news-potter-meeting-boehly-b1062218.html

 

[Ham]

7 minutes ago, RDCW said:

I'm not sure Jose is as unambiguously adored as this. He has certainly blotted his copybook since his second tenure here, although he may have rehabilitated himself somewhat last year when he claimed he would always be a Chelsea fan. He is never the long term answer though, and never has been, so I'm not sure he would be what Boehly is looking for.

Jose would 100% isolate half the squad and cause friction.  Not for me, particularly given the 7 and 8 year contracts. 

[ROTG]

3 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

 If the consensus of opinion is that Boehly is a "Know nothing Yank" , then surely , regardless of what happens between now and next season , he's made his opinion clear that he believes that Potter is the man for a rebuild and remould of the club ,  to cut Potter adrift before then would surely reinforce that perception of him?

I cannot see him allowing that .

Mid table mediocrity and half full SB. I am sure TB & Co signed up for that when they paid £4 billion for the club.

The owners are not fools and are big enough to say they made a mistake. 
 

 

[RDCW]

13 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

 If the consensus of opinion is that Boehly is a "Know nothing Yank" , then surely , regardless of what happens between now and next season , he's made his opinion clear that he believes that Potter is the man for a rebuild and remould of the club ,  to cut Potter adrift before then would surely reinforce that perception of him?

I cannot see him allowing that .

To say that he is a "know nothing yank" is silly hyperbole and I haven't seen anyone being quite so extreme in their criticism. It is, however, fair to say that he is culturally inexperienced, both in terms of Association Football culture and in British fan culture. I am sure that he will learn fast. The US has some of the finest brains, institutions of learning and research and avant garde socio political thought in the world, some of the planet's finest and most altruistic individuals and an enviable work ethic, but as a Nation it is astonishingly institutionally and  intellectually backward. It's almost like you have to go through a thousand years of history before it is possible to develop any kind of National maturity.

Todd's not a "know nothing yank", but he is currently a bit of a Jon Snow 😉

Edited February 22, 2023 by RDCW

[ROTG]

4 minutes ago, Ham said:

Jose would 100% isolate half the squad and cause friction.  Not for me, particularly given the 7 and 8 year contracts. 

I am sure TB newly formed sports division have been tasked with looking at alternatives if the reset button is hit. 
 

it will not be the third coming of JM.

[Bob Singleton]

40 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Mourinho being linked in Italy with a return to us.

Personally I think it would be an excellent appointment - would unite the fans around the club, would likely be short-term but get us back nearer the top end of the league. 

Then look for a top level, longer-term project manager after that.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/football/jose-mourinho-massive-chelsea-return-decision-reached-as-boehly-is-given-huge-graham-potter-headache/ar-AA17KeUr?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=f616196749484200800d8a91a94f62f6

Not the only one being linked to us (surprise, surprise!). My personal thoughts regarding Mourinho? No thanks!

Here are the manager rumours since the transfer window closed:
 

Jose Mourinho (Roma) - 4^th Feb, Daily Mirror
Hansi Flick (German NT) - 5^th Feb, Daily Mirror; 11^th Feb, Christian Falk (Twitter)
Luis Enrique (unemployed) - 6^th Feb, Fichajes
Ruben Amorin * (Sporting Lisbon) - 20^th Feb, Simon Philips (Substack)
Mauricio Pochettino * (unemployed) - 21^st Feb, Graeme Bailey (Twitter)
Zinedine Zidane * (unemployed) - 21^st Feb, Fichajes

* Previously linked when Tuchel sacked

[martin1905]

2 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

With respect, reports "confirm" nothing. Especially when they use such mealy-mouthed language. I mean, what does this tweet actually say? That the owners would rather the supporters were happy? Hardly bleeding edge stuff. Isn't the tweet you posted "confirmation" the owners don't want to sack Potter?

I completely agree the feeling around the ground was terrible on Saturday. I agree it's going to get much worse; ai think there's no chance of us getting a result from even one of our next three games, never mind going on a run. Even scoring a goal seems beyond us. I also agree Potter has no long term future here and it's really just a matter of time, imo most likely until there is a succession plan and it feels politically expedient to the owners to pull the trigger. Which I don't see being this season, but I do accept falling down the table to 13th/14th so our relegation battling form is matched by our position could be a trigger ... It would be unprecedented for us, so impossible to know what any owner would do in that situation. 

What I don't see is why anyone would be convinced a toxic atmosphere would influence what the owners do. I'm at risk of repeating myself here so will leave at this ... There is no prior behaviour from the owners that suggests they especially care what we think about who our coach is, nor much evidence in the PL of any club making decisions on coaching personnel based on supporter preferences. Anyone can believe what they want, and can believe a toxic atmosphere will compel Boehly into action, that's fine. There just isn't an evidence that is the case. None.

I don't think it will be the reason for them sacking him but it all goes hand in hand, the fans wouldn't turn if things were going well.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that fans turning on Potter will get him the sack or the board will listen to us but I've never seen or heard anything like it before and we've been through some rotten spells in the past, yet no manager, even Benitez got what Potter got on Saturday and it's just the beginning.

There's literally 40,000 odd fans baying for blood and it was a real sudden turnaround. Once the level of results get to that level of unacceptable there is no way back so whilst the board won't necessarily listen to us it was the beginning of the end as far as I'm concerned. You can't lose an entire fan base overnight and survive, it's done and will only get worse.

For what it's worth I've said for a while he had the champions league as his last chance, whilst I believe sacking him months ago would have given us a genuine chance of winning it, I fully understand why the change was not made. When we get knocked out, all bets are off.

He may not even get to see that game as I think Tottenham will batter us, really batter us and that can't be allowed to go unpunished.

[ROTG]

44 minutes ago, RDCW said:

 Jose is yesterday's man.

He needs another season. It’s worth keeping an eye on Kompany, another one from the Pep school. every club he’s coached to date have gone on an upward trajectory. Would not be surprised if he replaces Pep. 

[martin1905]

46 minutes ago, RDCW said:

It would be a disastrous appointment, like asking Kerry Dixon to lead the line for us now. Jose is yesterday's man.

Maybe its cos I'm a romantic when it comes to football and I'm wearing my Jose tinted spectacles but I think the man has one last big successful job in him, at the right place, with the right team and where better, who better to do it with than where it all started. Ok, there was Porto but you get what I mean.

The man is so experienced and so successful I've always refused to believe that he is as washed up as some but again forgive me as I love the man. 

The Madrid job ruined him and since then he's not been the same but he's gone off and quietly gone about his business still bringing moderate success everywhere he's been but one last big job with all the right tools and I firmly believe he can come good again.

It would be so poetic for him to come back now, do things differently which at his age I can see happening, he must have mellowed and realised the game has changed and he can't be so full on all the time, he's too old!!

Maybe it's just a pipe dream but I can't help but dream and I  don't think the idea is that far fetched, certainly him coming back. He would jump at the chance and it would be a huge appointment for the club.

And after he's finished his time here as manager, who better to go upstairs and oversee the future of the club. 

[Mark Kelly]

24 minutes ago, RDCW said:

To say that he is a "know nothing yank" is silly hyperbole and I haven't seen anyone being quite so extreme in their criticism. It is, however, fair to say that he is culturally inexperienced, both in terms of Association Football culture and in British fan culture. I am sure that he will learn fast. The US has some of the finest brains, institutions of learning and research and avant garde socio political thought in the world, some of the planet's finest and most altruistic individuals and an enviable work ethic, but as a Nation it is astonishingly institutionally and  intellectually backward. It's almost like you have to go through a thousand years of history before it is possible to develop any kind of National maturity.

Todd's not a "know nothing yank", but he is currently a bit of a Jon Snow 😉

Just to clarify , I'm certainly not suggesting he's a "know nothing Yank" but that has been the narrative amongst many in the media which has a trickle down effect on social media . 

I think he's doing the best he can so far to be honest , I have no complaints. 

[martin1905]

12 minutes ago, ROTG said:

He needs another season. It’s worth keeping an eye on Kompany, another one from the Pep school. every club he’s coached to date have gone on an upward trajectory. Would not be surprised if he replaces Pep. 

The way he's got Burnley playing is very impressive considering they have played a certain way for so long. They are very good to watch and no doubt he's done a great job but as you say he's probably already got one eye on the City job and they on him.

There's plenty of options or will be in the summer. I get not everyone is going to agree with me on Jose and as much as I'd love him back if I had to make a choice it would be Luis Enrique mainly because he's available now, that's why he would be my preference above Jose anyway. The team we have assembled is literally built for him.

Edited February 22, 2023 by martin1905

[martin1905]

Also, it's not just the Chelsea fans that have turned. The media have made an equally swift about turn. From everyone saying he needs time to story's about Pochettino, crisis meetings, players being unhappy, other clubs wanting him when he's sacked, Tottenham could be the end when we lose and pundits slating him left right and centre.

Obviously the reason fans and media have turned is the results and that is what ultimately will cost him his job but when literally everyone has turned and the pressure goes up so drastically so quickly it's only a matter of time.

[Mark Kelly]

6 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

The way he's got Burnley playing is very impressive considering they have played a certain way for so long.

Change Burnley for Brighton and , well , you know where I'm going with this 😁

[martin1905]

1 minute ago, Mark Kelly said:

Change Burnley for Brighton and , well , you know where I'm going with this 😁

I know, but disagree. 

I said at the time of his appointment, although there will be one on here who disagrees with this, that what he done at Brighton wasn't really that impressive, it was his character and what he done with that other team, can't remember what they are called, from Sweden I think, that impressed me about him.

His Brighton team were always a bit of a myth, created by the media in my opinion to build him up for the England job. 

They finished 17th and 15th the two seasons previous to his appointment then 15th, 16th, 9th. Now that is a big improvement in terms of league position but they were only 3 points above 12th, they had the 8th lowest amount of wins and 5th lowest goal scorers that season scoring 42.

They scored 161 goals in 134 games under him.

It's also not unheard of, quite common in fact for teams to have a random, one off high placed finish in a league season. 

Overall what he did at Brighton really wasn't very remarkable. At all.

[Thiago97]

I cannot get really get my head around anyone wanting Mourinho again. For the simple reason, we know exactly what will happen. Anyone who really wants Mourinho, actually really wants short term success/trophies more than anything else

He would come in and instill almost everything we need right now. We would very likely become title challengers and everything would go swimmingly for the first 12 months. Season two would come along, would probably continue in the same vein to start with, but then once we find ourselves in a difficult situation and things go against us.......get ready for the unravelling to happen .......he would be at loggerheads with owners, our players, the FA, the media........none of it would be his fault and he would sell everyone this notion that he is not be treated by the same metric as everyone else etc etc etc.

We may win the title, we may win the CL within those first 18-24 months. We will certainly be back to similar to where we are now not long after that.

[exiledblue]

54 minutes ago, Ham said:

Jose would 100% isolate half the squad and cause friction.  Not for me, particularly given the 7 and 8 year contracts. 

would be a disaster, he didnt do it last time and his methods have only become older. 

[Max Fowler]

2 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

We may win the title, we may win the CL within those first 18-24 months. We will certainly be back to similar to where we are now not long after that.

Personally if we won the title / CL and then ended up back where we were now 2 years later, I'd take Jose back tomorrow.

[martin1905]

4 minutes ago, exiledblue said:

would be a disaster, he didnt do it last time and his methods have only become older. 

Did he not win the league?

[Thiago97]

Just now, Max Fowler said:

Personally if we won the title / CL and then ended up back where we were now 2 years later, I'd take Jose back tomorrow.

You want short term success then. That's fair enough, not really knocking it. It would be the reality of the situation though.

That particular leopard has and never will change his spots. It's all laid out bare on his CV over the last 15 years.

[Phoenix Blue]

Just now, Max Fowler said:

Personally if we won the title / CL and then ended up back where we were now 2 years later, I'd take Jose back tomorrow.

That is the most short sighted view I think I have read up to now, its called instant gratification without any thought of the long term viability and success of our club.

Mind boggling!!