Chelsea Sack Graham Potter

[martin1905]

Not good for Potter that.

Along with the reports we approached Pochettino, players being unhappy, crisis meetings with the board, West Ham wanting Potter, us wanting Zidane, there's far to much going on now where as pre Southampton all the talk, from everyone and every outlet was how he should and will be given time.

He will be gone if we lose on Sunday, and we will , this is just gearing up for it.

[martin1905]

1 hour ago, Max Fowler said:

 

What do people think of the three days off training this week?

In some ways I can respect managing injuries, but taking three days off seems absolutely unprecedented over recent years. Seems to me there's no point in having fit players if they don't know what they're doing or how we're playing.

We've got a huge squad, it's far too big and it's more or less fully fit again. Some need extra training to get match fit, not less.

We haven't given the players three days off before one of the biggest games of our season for fitness reasons.

He's getting sacked and he's getting sacked soon. Almost certainly after we lose to Tottenham.

 

[Mark Kelly]

I heard we had given the squad two days off but then the OCWS showed them all in training , so are the two days off today and Friday? Or is it nonsense and they'll get together Friday for a pre-game meeting and light training?

[martin1905]

5 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I heard we had given the squad two days off but then the OCWS showed them all in training , so are the two days off today and Friday? Or is it nonsense and they'll get together Friday for a pre-game meeting and light training?

Apparently he gave them Monday and Tuesday off and it worked so well they are off today again after a blip yesterday.

Not training seems to have a much better impact on the squad than anything Potter has done so far.

[Ham]

5 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Apparently he gave them Monday and Tuesday off and it worked so well they are off today again after a blip yesterday.

Not training seems to have a much better impact on the squad than anything Potter has done so far.

I've often wondered what sort of performance a group of grown up highly paid, professional players would put on if there was no coaching whatsoever.  

Would it be better than the one against Southampton?

[Trini_Blue]

I saw Tuchel lose twice in finals against Klopp last year, and City did the double over us in the league as well.. 

Compete with Guardiola and Klopp - "compete" is a strong word.

Saw him get smashed embarrassingly in a pre-season game against Arsenal on live TV, and smashed at home last April against Arsenal too!

Tuchel's a good coach, but he's no prime Mourinho, Guardiola or even Klopp.

Is he a better coach than Potter? Right now it looks that way.

But "only a #9 away" from challenging? Please don't make me laugh. 

To win a league title in the England you have to be a truly top level coach. We've seen that with Mourinho, Ancelotti and Conte. Tuchel, with all due respect to him, never hammered out a tactical system as efficient and consistent as those coaches did. 

I mean, Mourinho literally returned to Chelsea almost a decade later and walked the league AGAIN. Conte won the league with an even more moody striker than Lukaku, with Pedro, Willian and Victor Moses at RWB ffs. A squad that had massively underachieved too and Fabregas was on the bench a lot.

And if people recall, under Carlo the diamond/4-3-2-1 with Ballack, Lamps, Deco (sometimes), Mikel, Anelka, Drogs and Malouda was brilliant. At that time, there were question marks over Ballack, Deco, Malouda and even Anelka. Carlo literally found a way to mould them into a system and challenge prime-SAF.

Look, Tuchel had a good UCL win but if people want to suggest he was on an upward trajectory they're being funny.

[RDCW]

I don't get the days off at all. Even if he doesn't want to work them too hard surely a tactical preparation session, or a motivational exercise, or even a squad get together is called for. At the moment we look under prepared and under coached, not under rested. He looks weak and wishy washy and they won't respect him for it!

[Mark Kelly]

5 minutes ago, RDCW said:

I don't get the days off at all. Even if he doesn't want to work them too hard surely a tactical preparation session, or a motivational exercise, or even a squad get together is called for. At the moment we look under prepared and under coached, not under rested. He looks weak and wishy washy and they won't respect him for it!

I don't recall us looking fully fit all season , surely by now with half a season gone we should be match fit and sharp but we don't look it to me.

Unless of course the players are half-assing themselves every game in silent protest at the club daring to employ someone below them as coach?

[thevelourfog]

27 minutes ago, Trini_Blue said:

I saw Tuchel lose twice in finals against Klopp last year, and City did the double over us in the league as well.. 

Compete with Guardiola and Klopp - "compete" is a strong word.

Saw him get smashed embarrassingly in a pre-season game against Arsenal on live TV, and smashed at home last April against Arsenal too!

Tuchel's a good coach, but he's no prime Mourinho, Guardiola or even Klopp.

Is he a better coach than Potter? Right now it looks that way.

But "only a #9 away" from challenging? Please don't make me laugh. 

To win a league title in the England you have to be a truly top level coach. We've seen that with Mourinho, Ancelotti and Conte. Tuchel, with all due respect to him, never hammered out a tactical system as efficient and consistent as those coaches did. 

I mean, Mourinho literally returned to Chelsea almost a decade later and walked the league AGAIN. Conte won the league with an even more moody striker than Lukaku, with Pedro, Willian and Victor Moses at RWB ffs. A squad that had massively underachieved too and Fabregas was on the bench a lot.

And if people recall, under Carlo the diamond/4-3-2-1 with Ballack, Lamps, Deco (sometimes), Mikel, Anelka, Drogs and Malouda was brilliant. At that time, there were question marks over Ballack, Deco, Malouda and even Anelka. Carlo literally found a way to mould them into a system and challenge prime-SAF.

Look, Tuchel had a good UCL win but if people want to suggest he was on an upward trajectory they're being funny.

Remind us all, how is that Mourinho, Ancelotti and Conte came to not be at the club any longer? 

Not sure we can, with a straight face, claim a manager has come back and "walked the league" when they've won the league in their second season. Not knocking Mourinho at all here to be clear, just your hyperbole. Ancelotti had probably the best squad this football club has ever had, each of those players you mention was world class and would be a first name on the teamsheet now (even if Deco and Malouda had difficult first seasons, not at all unheard of). And we completely fell apart about a month into his second season. Again, not knocking him, just the hyperbole. Reckon Southampton was the worst home performance I've seen since his Sunderland game, actually. And Conte ... He's the one I have the least time for and that will colour my view, but he took months to make a very obvious, simple tactical change and we performed markedly worse the more of his players we got.

We lost twice against Liverpool ... on penalties. We lost narrowly (in terms of score, accept at least the home game was a comfortable City victory) to City. Remember what happened in the previous three games? You're not working from a particularly honest definition of the word "compete", here.

Not sure anyone has suggested Tuchel was "on an upward trajectory", certainly not here anyway, on this forum, not even his most avid backers. But in his career? Dortmund, PSG, Chelsea ... That CV tells you all you need to know about the level his next job will be at and the tier or management he is in. And to relate this all back to Potter ... Well, Chelsea is all him and Tuchel will have in common on their CVs come the end of their careers. 

[Max Fowler]

1 hour ago, Trini_Blue said:

I saw Tuchel lose twice in finals against Klopp last year, and City did the double over us in the league as well.. 

Compete with Guardiola and Klopp - "compete" is a strong word.

Saw him get smashed embarrassingly in a pre-season game against Arsenal on live TV, and smashed at home last April against Arsenal too!

Tuchel's a good coach, but he's no prime Mourinho, Guardiola or even Klopp.

Is he a better coach than Potter? Right now it looks that way.

But "only a #9 away" from challenging? Please don't make me laugh. 

To win a league title in the England you have to be a truly top level coach. We've seen that with Mourinho, Ancelotti and Conte. Tuchel, with all due respect to him, never hammered out a tactical system as efficient and consistent as those coaches did. 

I mean, Mourinho literally returned to Chelsea almost a decade later and walked the league AGAIN. Conte won the league with an even more moody striker than Lukaku, with Pedro, Willian and Victor Moses at RWB ffs. A squad that had massively underachieved too and Fabregas was on the bench a lot.

And if people recall, under Carlo the diamond/4-3-2-1 with Ballack, Lamps, Deco (sometimes), Mikel, Anelka, Drogs and Malouda was brilliant. At that time, there were question marks over Ballack, Deco, Malouda and even Anelka. Carlo literally found a way to mould them into a system and challenge prime-SAF.

Look, Tuchel had a good UCL win but if people want to suggest he was on an upward trajectory they're being funny.

Tuchel has the best win percentage of any manager in the CL of recent times bar Pep. And he beat Pep in the final.

[Max Fowler]

1 hour ago, Trini_Blue said:

I saw Tuchel lose twice in finals against Klopp last year, and City did the double over us in the league as well.. 

Compete with Guardiola and Klopp - "compete" is a strong word.

Saw him get smashed embarrassingly in a pre-season game against Arsenal on live TV, and smashed at home last April against Arsenal too!

Tuchel's a good coach, but he's no prime Mourinho, Guardiola or even Klopp.

Is he a better coach than Potter? Right now it looks that way.

But "only a #9 away" from challenging? Please don't make me laugh. 

To win a league title in the England you have to be a truly top level coach. We've seen that with Mourinho, Ancelotti and Conte. Tuchel, with all due respect to him, never hammered out a tactical system as efficient and consistent as those coaches did. 

I mean, Mourinho literally returned to Chelsea almost a decade later and walked the league AGAIN. Conte won the league with an even more moody striker than Lukaku, with Pedro, Willian and Victor Moses at RWB ffs. A squad that had massively underachieved too and Fabregas was on the bench a lot.

And if people recall, under Carlo the diamond/4-3-2-1 with Ballack, Lamps, Deco (sometimes), Mikel, Anelka, Drogs and Malouda was brilliant. At that time, there were question marks over Ballack, Deco, Malouda and even Anelka. Carlo literally found a way to mould them into a system and challenge prime-SAF.

Look, Tuchel had a good UCL win but if people want to suggest he was on an upward trajectory they're being funny.

Here was Tuchel‘s win percentage in the CL. The rewriting of that history is unbelievable. I accept that Tuchel may not be temperamentally suited to managing long-term. But we weren’t on a downward trajectory either. He had got the players to overperform massively and then couldn’t sustain that.  But it wasn’t the results that cost him.
 

Arguably Klopp is going through a similar trend now. Is Tuchel below Klopp and Pep? Sure. But they are in the same category of absolutely elite level managers. 

[Mark Kelly]

16 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Here was Tuchel‘s win percentage in the CL. The rewriting of that history is unbelievable. I accept that Tuchel may not be temperamentally suited to managing long-term. But we weren’t on a downward trajectory either. He had got the players to overperform massively and then couldn’t sustain that.  But it wasn’t the results that cost him.
 

Arguably Klopp is going through a similar trend now. Is Tuchel below Klopp and Pep? Sure. But they are in the same category of absolutely elite level managers. 

I'm not going to argue the toss about Tuchel being a good manager or not because in my opinion he was but if you look at the graph his is a much smaller number of games played and across three sides whereas Guardiola and Klopp have more games which can bring the percentage down and in the case of Pep it was only for one club even if that club were aided and abetted by UEFA.

At Everton for example Sean Dyche has a win ration of 66.67% in comparison to Frank Lampards 17.39% , Lampard though managed 20 games to Dyche's 3 !

Edited February 23, 2023 by Mark Kelly

[Max Fowler]

2 hours ago, Trini_Blue said:

I saw Tuchel lose twice in finals against Klopp last year, and City did the double over us in the league as well.. 

Compete with Guardiola and Klopp - "compete" is a strong word.

Saw him get smashed embarrassingly in a pre-season game against Arsenal on live TV, and smashed at home last April against Arsenal too!

Tuchel's a good coach, but he's no prime Mourinho, Guardiola or even Klopp.

Is he a better coach than Potter? Right now it looks that way.

But "only a #9 away" from challenging? Please don't make me laugh. 

To win a league title in the England you have to be a truly top level coach. We've seen that with Mourinho, Ancelotti and Conte. Tuchel, with all due respect to him, never hammered out a tactical system as efficient and consistent as those coaches did. 

I mean, Mourinho literally returned to Chelsea almost a decade later and walked the league AGAIN. Conte won the league with an even more moody striker than Lukaku, with Pedro, Willian and Victor Moses at RWB ffs. A squad that had massively underachieved too and Fabregas was on the bench a lot.

And if people recall, under Carlo the diamond/4-3-2-1 with Ballack, Lamps, Deco (sometimes), Mikel, Anelka, Drogs and Malouda was brilliant. At that time, there were question marks over Ballack, Deco, Malouda and even Anelka. Carlo literally found a way to mould them into a system and challenge prime-SAF.

Look, Tuchel had a good UCL win but if people want to suggest he was on an upward trajectory they're being funny.

The idea that we are using pre-season friendlies to justify him not being elite is laughable.

And what's the difference with all of those players you mentioned? They all had bags of experience. Sure they might not have been at their prime but our squad pales in comparison with that one in terms of leaders.

Tuchel knew we were going through a transition. I agree that we weren't just "a number nine" away and the signing of Lukaku backfired badly on Tuchel and the club. 

The idea that we didn't have a tactical system under Tuchel is also laughable. Our system was so obvious and rigid that it became a problem by the end - but we had a clear style of play and at its best it purred like a highly intricate watch.

The key?

Tuchel taught players to open their body up every time they received the ball. The likes of Jorginho were instrumental to our CL final win as they escaped Man City's pressure and helped us build through the phases of play.

You could see in the first match against Wolves and every match subsequently an immediate style of play implemented on the team. Potter's may take longer to implement but I'm still not sure what it is - beyond give the players the freedom to do what they want and allow the team to play different formations to keep the opposition guessing.

[Max Fowler]

6 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

At Everton for example Sean Dyche has a win ration of 66.67% in comparison to Frank Lampards 17.39% , Lampard though managed 20 games to Dyche's 3 !

In fairness, I think Dyche may be 3 x the manager our dear Frank ever was!

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, Max Fowler said:

 

Tuchel knew we were going through a transition. I agree that we weren't just "a number nine" away and the signing of Lukaku backfired badly on Tuchel and the club. 

Everyone knows my opinion on this but I honestly believe this was the catalyst for the drop in performance levels for some of our players , having done all the hard work in winning the Champions League , that waste of space reaped all the rewards for it which is why I'm against having him back again.

 

[martin1905]

Can't believe anyone would compare Tuchel and what he did with that squad to Mourinho, Ancelotti, Conte and what they did with the squad they had.

I mean, the difference in levels is astronomical. I get the league is what we want to be winning or at least be challenging for every year but what Tuchel did with that squad, not just the CL win, is equally impressive as what any of the other managers did.

We were 8th when he took over and a complete shambles. Three domestic finals, we were the better team in at least two of them, arguably robbed in them too, two top four finishes ,finished 3rd in his second season, which is our highest league finish in the last 5 years, won the European super cup and became champions of the world after completing dominating some of the best teams in Europe when we won the biggest trophy in club football.

That's without taking in to consideration how he handled the sanctioning of the club.

It was remarkable what he did in those 18 months, absolutely remarkable.

[McCreadie]

31 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Can't believe anyone would compare Tuchel and what he did with that squad to Mourinho, Ancelotti, Conte and what they did with the squad they had.

I mean, the difference in levels is astronomical. I get the league is what we want to be winning or at least be challenging for every year but what Tuchel did with that squad, not just the CL win, is equally impressive as what any of the other managers did.

We were 8th when he took over and a complete shambles. Three domestic finals, we were the better team in at least two of them, arguably robbed in them too, two top four finishes ,finished 3rd in his second season, which is our highest league finish in the last 5 years, won the European super cup and became champions of the world after completing dominating some of the best teams in Europe when we won the biggest trophy in club football.

That's without taking in to consideration how he handled the sanctioning of the club.

It was remarkable what he did in those 18 months, absolutely remarkable.

It was. Watching him manage Liverpool or Spurs is going to be very painful.

[Ham]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/21484787/chelsea-boehly-potter-training-ground-upgrade/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_campaign=sunsportchelseatwitter&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1677106818 

Hopefully the poor babies won't have to get by with sweatshop conditions for too long and we'll see improvements in our results 🤞

[ROTG]

14 minutes ago, McCreadie said:

It was. Watching him manage Liverpool or Spurs is going to be very painful.

Don’t not worry. He’s off to AM

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, Max Fowler said:

Tuchel knew we were going through a transition. I agree that we weren't just "a number nine" away

Shame you were not a betting person, with that kind of insight you would have got better odd for the team not winning the PL. 

I my memory severs me. I believe we’re we’re favourites to win the PL at the start of the season. 

[Trini_Blue]

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

Can't believe anyone would compare Tuchel and what he did with that squad to Mourinho, Ancelotti, Conte and what they did with the squad they had.

I mean, the difference in levels is astronomical. I get the league is what we want to be winning or at least be challenging for every year but what Tuchel did with that squad, not just the CL win, is equally impressive as what any of the other managers did.

We were 8th when he took over and a complete shambles. Three domestic finals, we were the better team in at least two of them, arguably robbed in them too, two top four finishes ,finished 3rd in his second season, which is our highest league finish in the last 5 years, won the European super cup and became champions of the world after completing dominating some of the best teams in Europe when we won the biggest trophy in club football.

That's without taking in to consideration how he handled the sanctioning of the club.

It was remarkable what he did in those 18 months, absolutely remarkable.

All of those managers also faced difficulty. All of them.

When Mou came back, he inherited a team that needed work and he made them into Champions. 

Conte's spell also was by no means a walk in the park for him either. We finished 10th the season before for whatever reason you want to debate, and he didn't have all amazing players either. 

And, as for Ancelotti, the guy beat prime SAF and a very good United side. 

I'm just saying here my opinion on this. Reporters here are making it seem like Tuchel was this absolute genius and winner. Tuchel lost the UCL the season before coming to Chelsea, his PSG side were struggling, he won the UCL with us but snuck into the top 4 and in his second season we weren't brilliant either.

You can blame Lukaku, Werner, how he sidelined Lukaku, the injuries to Kante, James and Chilwell, the sanctions, the Club WC - there are a number of excuses we can find, and that's fine. 

Look, I accept Potter's been poor. He's got excuses too mind you. But what I can't seem to buy is that Tuchel was this amazing manager. 

Did he coach us into a formation? Yes.

Did we win a couple trophies with that formation? Yes.

Did he behave admirably when we were sanctioned? Absolutely.

Is he outperforming Potter? Yes, so far by a mile.

Did he get the best out of the playing staff last season? No, IMO he didn't.

Did he mount a credible title challenge? Absolutely not. 

If Potter is fired today, would bringing him back be a good move in terms of his coaching ability purely? Not IMO. 

Potter may not be doing great but I don't harp on about Tuchel like he ticked all the boxes tbh.

[Max Fowler]

21 minutes ago, Trini_Blue said:

All of those managers also faced difficulty. All of them.

When Mou came back, he inherited a team that needed work and he made them into Champions. 

Conte's spell also was by no means a walk in the park for him either. We finished 10th the season before for whatever reason you want to debate, and he didn't have all amazing players either. 

And, as for Ancelotti, the guy beat prime SAF and a very good United side. 

I'm just saying here my opinion on this. Reporters here are making it seem like Tuchel was this absolute genius and winner. Tuchel lost the UCL the season before coming to Chelsea, his PSG side were struggling, he won the UCL with us but snuck into the top 4 and in his second season we weren't brilliant either.

You can blame Lukaku, Werner, how he sidelined Lukaku, the injuries to Kante, James and Chilwell, the sanctions, the Club WC - there are a number of excuses we can find, and that's fine. 

Look, I accept Potter's been poor. He's got excuses too mind you. But what I can't seem to buy is that Tuchel was this amazing manager. 

Did he coach us into a formation? Yes.

Did we win a couple trophies with that formation? Yes.

Did he behave admirably when we were sanctioned? Absolutely.

Is he outperforming Potter? Yes, so far by a mile.

Did he get the best out of the playing staff last season? No, IMO he didn't.

Did he mount a credible title challenge? Absolutely not. 

If Potter is fired today, would bringing him back be a good move in terms of his coaching ability purely? Not IMO. 

Potter may not be doing great but I don't harp on about Tuchel like he ticked all the boxes tbh.

Look at the goalscoring record of all our forwards and ex-forwards since he left. None of them have improved at all. What  does that tell you? It was the players that were the problem. Tuchel alienated them to his detriment but they also let him down on the pitch. He has to take some responsibility for signing Lukaku and it not working out, but with the right set of forwards we would have been a different animal under Tuchel.

IMO he ticked every box except he clearly managed to alienate certain players and Boehly. They have most of the blame IMO but he could have had more foresight and awareness about how things would unravel.

[jasonb]

Mourinho would be a nightmare in a relegation fight attacking everyone via the media and also has he turned Tammy into the next Drogba, I think not.

Under Tuchel last season we could not beat Utd, Liverpool, City or Brighton in the league..........

[Rob B]

London is Blue released a new podcast episode today featuring Matt Law.   Well worth a listen if you have a spare 45 minutes or so free.

Covers GP (obviously) but the board generally, Kante and Cucurella, amongst other things.  Quite insightful. 

[ROTG]

14 minutes ago, Rob B said:

London is Blue released a new podcast episode today featuring Matt Law.   Well worth a listen if you have a spare 45 minutes or so free.

Covers GP (obviously) but the board generally, Kante and Cucurella, amongst other things.  Quite insightful. 

Just watched it. 
Matt Law stating the bloody obvious.