Chelsea Sack Graham Potter

[exiledblue]

36 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

This was posted on Reddit today:

Graham Potter's biggest success at chelsea has been his man management. Obviously the emotional intelligence and calm nature were the two most talked about traits when we hired the man but let’s put some context to that.

He inherited what can only be described as a Frankenstein squad. Players bought for different managers and different systems. We all know that already. That’s not news but it is important. Tuchel was obviously able to get the absolute most out of that squad and he had an absolutely miraculous run to get us that UCL trophy. That sort of short term success is something we might not see ever again with any club. And it’s time to recognize that. However towards the end of his tenure, we started to hear about the cracks starting to form. We became predictable on the pitch, players started underperforming, rumors of tuchel picking favorites started impacting the dressing room, his relationship with the new ownership obviously went sour. It wasn’t good.

Then Graham comes in. Same Frankenstein squad but rather than looking for short term success, he was tasked to build something for the future. So, he came in and talked to everyone. Implemented an open door policy. His goal was to evaluate each player top to bottom. Very literally from their head and how they think and process things to their toe and the ability they have on the pitch. This approach is quite different than the approach tuchel took to achieve what he achieved. That sort of process takes time.

Then, once he has a good understanding of how each player works, he can start to implement his own ideas and his own system in a way he feels like it will be received most effectively. Unfortunately injuries began to hit us pretty hard which obviously makes that even more difficult. It requires additional emotional support for the injured players and it forces him to re-analyze the situation and adapt a system he wasn’t able to fully implement in the first place.

Then, let’s add in a January transfer window. One where the main goal is to bring in a bunch of new players that we can build around for the future. The club achieves that goal. Now, Graham has to speak with all these new players and get a feel for how they work top to bottom and then, AGAIN, re-analyze the situation and adapt a system he STILL hasn’t been able to fully implement.

Now he’s sitting there with a massive squad all of whom he genuinely cares about and wants the best for. And all those guys have their own agendas and different backgrounds and different perspectives and all of whom want to play. And up to this point, he’s kept them all happy and bought in because that’s what he’s best at.

Unfortunately that sort of approach and ideology comes at a cost. The one thing he or any manager has absolutely zero control over is time. Because of how he approaches managing and coaching, he hasn’t had the time to properly implement a culture and system that brings results, let alone consistent results. He’s very much the complete opposite of tuchel in just about every way possible. Tuchels approach brought short term success and he didn’t need much time to get there. I think if we gave Potter time, that success will come. And because of his approach, that success will be sustained for a the long time.

And you can criticize the decisions he makes but we all have to understand that we’re not in these meetings and we’re not at training. There are things that happen behind the scenes that we are not aware of. He’s clearly not a dumb person. It makes sense that behind every decision he makes, there is thought, logic, and data to support those decisions.

We just have to be patient.

 

Picks up the popcorn, sits back and waits.

He was oveseer of the Jan window and I suspect also some of the summer window, why else would we have Cinderella from Brighton? Somehow his master plan doesnt include a striker and the one he has he doesnt want to play. Couldnt he also have already decided in 4 moths who to off load In January?

[exiledblue]

1 hour ago, chara said:

Looking at the fixtures left to play not one of them looks like a nailed on Chelsea  win as things stand.

 

If Soton wasnt a nailed on, what hope anyone else

[Rob B]

36 minutes ago, RDCW said:

Utter bollocks of course. We aren't talking about a minor blip in form, we're talking about results falling off a cliff. Building for the future and utilising present resources effectively are not mutually exclusive. Most fans would accept a temporary mediocrity in the interests of establishing a basis for sustained future success, but we have fallen so far below mediocre that we can only dream of it.

This.

I’m see lots of comparisons to Arteta and Ten Hag, which are comical.  The former finished 8th and won the FA Cup in his first season with what was an atrocious squad, and ETH lost like 2 games and we’ve all seen what he’s done since.

I’m still of the view that even with a world class no9, we have one of the best squads in the league, and with a decent manager we should comfortably be in the top 4, if not challenging for the title. 

[east lower]

Tick, tock.............the time is getting closer to the alarm time for the owner's to actually rise from their slumber.

They've hit the snooze button a few times now, but the big bell is going to ring very soon. 

To steal a phrase from the refs handbook, it's 'clear and obvious' what needs to happen and has been for the last 4-6 games at least. 

The tone of the briefings let out has changed over the last week or so, Potter will know, the players will know, I think the owner's know but they're clinging-on for one last push at saving face. Do the right thing, do the honourable thing, do the only thing that might get the team's confidence up snd maybe, just maybe ease us past Dortmynd and let this manager and his staff go. Thinking about it, his staff might be the only reason he's not gone sooner, a lot of places to fill?

Edited February 27, 2023 by east lower

[Bob Singleton]

4 minutes ago, east lower said:

Tick, tock.............the time is getting closer to the alarm time for the owner's to actually rise from their slumber.

They've hit the snooze button a few times now, but the big bell is going to ring very soon. 

To steal a phrase from the refs handbook, it's 'clear and obvious' what needs to happen and has been for the last 4-6 games at least. 

The tone of the briefings let out has changed over the last week or so, Potter will know, the players will know, I think the owner's know but they're clinging-on for one last push at saving face. Do the right thing, do the honourable thing, do the only thing that might get the team's confidence up snd maybe, just maybe ease us past Dortmynd and let this manager and his staff go. Thinking about it, his staff might be the only reason he's not gone sooner, a lot of places to fill?

I suspect that if they are to pull the trigger - and as much as I think they probably need to, I'm not yet convinced they will - they won't do so until they have a replacement, be it a temporary solution or a long-term one (possibly even both... maybe they have someone for next season lined up but are looking for an "interim" to get to the end of this season?) in place.

The wait goes on.

[Mark Kelly]

Who will they get in? They don't know anyone! 

[east lower]

17 minutes ago, Bob Singleton said:

I suspect that if they are to pull the trigger - and as much as I think they probably need to, I'm not yet convinced they will - they won't do so until they have a replacement, be it a temporary solution or a long-term one (possibly even both... maybe they have someone for next season lined up but are looking for an "interim" to get to the end of this season?) in place.

The wait goes on.

My thoughts are, that’s why the next two game briefings are out there now. The owners are assessing options and/or getting interim arrangements done, contracts sorted (short-term ones possibly) and exit deals finalised.

The dross served up over the last 9 days can only have done harm. 
 

I was in the front row yesterday and when the players came over at the end of the game and they were almost in tears you knew, they knew too. 
 

I suppose I ought to be too old to be surprised by anything, anymore - but, here goes………I’d be surprised if GP lasts until clock change and probably gone by the day after Dortmund.

He ought to go now.

[Max Fowler]

 

 

[Max Fowler]

 

Guardiola says every manager needs time. Why are we basing our decision on him?!?!

[thevelourfog]

20 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

 

 

Nah, the club's vote includes the women's and youth's teams. Pointless clickbait.

[Mark Kelly]

10 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

 

Guardiola says every manager needs time. Why are we basing our decision on him?!?!

It's 2024 Todd Boehly is standing by Potter after a 1-0 away loss at Rotherham United leaves Chelsea rooted to the bottom of the Championship. 

"I'm sure the G Man will get a result at home against Luton Town this weekend said Boehly". 

[Max Fowler]

 

[Ham]

57 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

 

Guardiola says every manager needs time. Why are we basing our decision on him?!?!

Well of course Pep wants Potter to stay. 

[Max Fowler]

2 minutes ago, Ham said:

Well of course Pep wants Potter to stay. 

I believe he actually thinks Potter is a good manager - I just don't think that should be influencing our decision making at all - as is being reported.

[hallgalley]

https://www.bounder.friardale.co.uk/Results/1987.htm
 

to be fair I thought we were higher up than this last time we went down but we need to start picking up now

[Original 21]

The fact that since Potter’s arrival we’ve gone from potential top four challengers to potential relegation candidates is totally unacceptable and shows the extent of the disaster that employing Potter has turned into. Everything from team selection, tactics, game management, demeanour, results, performances, has been shocking and inept. There is no way Potter can survive this and the cost to the club in reputation, finances, compensation, sponsorship, cannot be underestimated. Soon, the Board are going to realise just how bloody awful hiring Potter has been and they’ll have to sack him before he does more damage to the club’s finances and credibility. It’s just a matter of time. It might not be against Leeds or Dortmund. But we’re just a moment away from another morale-crushing defeat. Then it will all be over.

[xceleryx]

10 hours ago, Trini_Blue said:

Well, Mourinho also gets into a lot of fights and from seeing Potter, I'm not so sure that's what the board realistically wants right now.

I genuinely like Mourinho, but if I'm appointing a manager at my company to oversee a long term project (5 to 10 years), working with sensitive staff and building something sustainable - Mourinho isn't going to be that guy.

Actually Graham Potter would be if he could have gotten some results!

Potter flopping hard doesn't mean he didn't have many of the needed attributes. He's like a Southgate who isn't able to get any results.

Mourinho has his baggage no doubt, but the original point you raised which I addressed was that he wasn't at the top of his game because he hadn't won anything serious of late, I provided context to why that is. 

But yes, I do agree he's probably not the man to oversee a longer term project. That said, he's also towards final stretch of his managerial career where he probably has room for one last big job and possibly a longer term stint. 

As for Potter I was firmly against his appointment at the time on the basis of not feeling he had that "x-factor" about him to really compete at the pointy end. He's a good manager to a certain level, just not the one we've generally competed at or wish to aspire to reach again. If we were intent on taking a gamble on a more unproven option I was a big advocate of Ange Postecoglou which I made know on the old forum. Maybe there's a bit of bias on my behalf wanting to see a fellow Aussie making noise with the elite, but having watched his managerial career for years he ticked every desirable box and came withs with that "x-factor". Even looking at it objectively, he was always a more exciting candidate imo.

[xceleryx]

11 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

Felix and Ziyech feature in the worst players of the week apparently.

It took Potter one month to coach Felix into mediocrity 

What a guy.

And no player in Europe's Top 5 Leagues is being dribbled past more times per game (3) than Enzo Fernandez, since his move to Chelsea. 

[Trini_Blue]

27 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Mourinho has his baggage no doubt, but the original point you raised which I addressed was that he wasn't at the top of his game because he hadn't won anything serious of late, I provided context to why that is. 

But yes, I do agree he's probably not the man to oversee a longer term project. That said, he's also towards final stretch of his managerial career where he probably has room for one last big job and possibly a longer term stint. 

I think what Ten Hag has done at United has been far more impressive than what Mourinho achieved there and Conte has outperformed him as well over at Spurs. 

Even Roma this year, they've only scored 30 goal in 23 games and aren't very impressive. I sometimes watch Serie A and they seem like a team that's more about the grind than a confident team. 

Mourinho doesn't quite fit the billing anymore as an elite manager IMO. It could be the supporting staff he brings aren't as elite anymore as he used to be I don't know. But, really, of the elite managers from back from his era - SAF is retired, Wenger is retired, Ancelotti was struggling at Everton before he got another crack at Real Madrid, Benitez is out of a job, Mancini's no longer at the top, Van Gaal is past his best as well.. only Guardiola has remained elite. 

I just think the game has moved on from Mourinho. He had a great run. 

[xceleryx]

3 hours ago, Trini_Blue said:

I think what Ten Hag has done at United has been far more impressive than what Mourinho achieved there and Conte has outperformed him as well over at Spurs. 

Even Roma this year, they've only scored 30 goal in 23 games and aren't very impressive. I sometimes watch Serie A and they seem like a team that's more about the grind than a confident team. 

Mourinho doesn't quite fit the billing anymore as an elite manager IMO. It could be the supporting staff he brings aren't as elite anymore as he used to be I don't know. But, really, of the elite managers from back from his era - SAF is retired, Wenger is retired, Ancelotti was struggling at Everton before he got another crack at Real Madrid, Benitez is out of a job, Mancini's no longer at the top, Van Gaal is past his best as well.. only Guardiola has remained elite. 

I just think the game has moved on from Mourinho. He had a great run. 

They aren't overly comparable situations though. Ten Hag has done well, not going to dismiss this but he's also had the luxury of bringing in arguably the best holding player in world football, along with two others that've worked under him before  - one of which as been a pillar in defence. Especially when Casemiro hasn't played they look a considerably worse side for it. His impact has helped in a huge way.

Roma haven't been relevant for years though, they're also not able to really spend the sort of money needed to bring in the quality to propel them forward. They're utterly devoid of attacking talent and creativity outside of Dybala and to a degree Tammy, the latter's ability was massively inflate courtesy of bagging plenty of goals against awful opposition last season. Again, a problem for them for years now even before Mourinho arrived. On the flip side, they also have like the 4th best defensive record in the league. So yeah, they do have to grind out results but that's largely because they just don't have the quality to go about it in any other way. 

That's of course your opinion, which is fine to have but again I refer back to what I said earlier in a prior post in that he also hasn't had the opportunity to manage a club in a position to really compete for anything serious. Much like how Ancelotti looked out of sorts at Everton, he returned to a far superior club with top tier talent and has gone on to be successful once again. Maybe if Mourinho got that same opportunity we'd see a similar thing happen. Either way, it''s one of those discussions that could go back and forth for days as the only real way to get a definitive answer is by Mourinho getting a job that would allow him to hit those peaks again. 

Again, not advocating him to return as my first choice but if push comes to shove and the options are Potter for another full season or getting Mourinho in on a free, I'm going to take the latter based on what information I have in front of me. 

[Thiago97]

2 hours ago, xceleryx said:

They aren't overly comparable situations though. Ten Hag has done well, not going to dismiss this but he's also had the luxury of bringing in arguably the best holding player in world football, along with two others that've worked under him before  - one of which as been a pillar in defence. Especially when Casemiro hasn't played they look a considerably worse side for it. His impact has helped in a huge way.

Roma haven't been relevant for years though, they're also not able to really spend the sort of money needed to bring in the quality to propel them forward. They're utterly devoid of attacking talent and creativity outside of Dybala and to a degree Tammy, the latter's ability was massively inflate courtesy of bagging plenty of goals against awful opposition last season. Again, a problem for them for years now even before Mourinho arrived. On the flip side, they also have like the 4th best defensive record in the league. So yeah, they do have to grind out results but that's largely because they just don't have the quality to go about it in any other way. 

That's of course your opinion, which is fine to have but again I refer back to what I said earlier in a prior post in that he also hasn't had the opportunity to manage a club in a position to really compete for anything serious. Much like how Ancelotti looked out of sorts at Everton, he returned to a far superior club with top tier talent and has gone on to be successful once again. Maybe if Mourinho got that same opportunity we'd see a similar thing happen. Either way, it''s one of those discussions that could go back and forth for days as the only real way to get a definitive answer is by Mourinho getting a job that would allow him to hit those peaks again. 

Again, not advocating him to return as my first choice but if push comes to shove and the options are Potter for another full season or getting Mourinho in on a free, I'm going to take the latter based on what information I have in front of me. 

It is a discussion that can go back and forth like you said. I would make two comments though, Mourinho has been given a bit of money at Roma. Not huge investment to necessarily turn them into champions, but he spent a chunk relatively when he took over…….and they are pretty much where they were when Fonseca was in charge. So it’s a difficult debate to say Mourinho has actually improved Roma, all this whilst Juve are in a complete transition period.

I don’t know the ins and outs of why Zaniola has left…..he is/was the best attacking player at Roma and seemed keen to get out under Mourinho. I believe contract situation also a factor in this, but it’s a common baggage that comes with Mourinho. 

[ROTG]

7 hours ago, Trini_Blue said:

I think what Ten Hag has done at United has been far more impressive than what Mourinho achieved there and Conte has outperformed him as well over at Spurs. 

Even Roma this year, they've only scored 30 goal in 23 games and aren't very impressive. I sometimes watch Serie A and they seem like a team that's more about the grind than a confident team. 

Mourinho doesn't quite fit the billing anymore as an elite manager IMO. It could be the supporting staff he brings aren't as elite anymore as he used to be I don't know. But, really, of the elite managers from back from his era - SAF is retired, Wenger is retired, Ancelotti was struggling at Everton before he got another crack at Real Madrid, Benitez is out of a job, Mancini's no longer at the top, Van Gaal is past his best as well.. only Guardiola has remained elite. 

I just think the game has moved on from Mourinho. He had a great run. 

No idea what this has to do with Team GP

The bookies very rarely get it wrong on new managerial appointments

[Ham]

Lots of talk about "a sea change" in opinion on GP at the club and about a difference of opinion between the owners about his immediate future.

Lose or even draw with a poor performance against Leeds and I think he's gone before Dortmund for sure. 

 

[ROTG]

1 minute ago, Ham said:

 

Lose or even draw with a poor performance against Leeds and I think he's gone before Dortmund for sure. 

 

Doubt it - They would have to promote Anthony Barry to head coach :0(

[My Blood Is Blue]

24 minutes ago, Ham said:

Lots of talk about "a sea change" in opinion on GP at the club and about a difference of opinion between the owners about his immediate future.

Lose or even draw with a poor performance against Leeds and I think he's gone before Dortmund for sure. 

 

I don't think it will be before Dortmund, wouldn't give any new manager enough time to come in and prep for our biggest game of the season so far.

Yes, you can argue Potter isn't really doing a lot to prepare the team either, but the tie is so close, I think minimal disruption ahead of it is needed.

Really, Potter should have gone weeks ago, but this is where we are.